[canadabasketballisrisingParticipant]

Canada played Greece yesterday. I 100% understand with the pick and role (Trae young does it all the time versus slow footed brook lopez) that its hard for slow footed centers to last in the current NBA.

Pappiganis showed yesterday that he is clearly at least at the level of (effectiveness) Trey Lyles/ Dwight Powell and has quicker defensive feet than slow feeted bigs like Lopez, or others. It’s hard to see why he didn’t last in the NBA.

So many people think because you play in the NBA you are better then players in Europe but Kostas Anteumpbo (who the average fan think would be greece’s best player because he plays in the NBA) is Greece’s third center, and the about 7th-8th best player. The only NBA players that are clearly better than Europeans are the top 100 or so (top 3-4 on a good team). A top European player is actually on par or better than the 5th-12th best players on teams.

With the two points of: Pappigannis is actually quicker than the “slow footed bigs who play today (and just as big), and the fact that top europeans are on par with the 5th-12th players in the NBA, what was it about Pappigannis or other really big europeans who didn’t last in the NBA? A lot of them are quicker than the bottom 1/3rd of bigs in the NBA, and honestly better than a lot of back up bigs.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

Not sure tbh. He probably is getting paid as much as he would here but gets to play a bigger role and is closer to home with a better opportunity. That and not all NBA teams are truly trying to win, but just pile up homerun upside and wait for their “process” works. I thought he would have lasted a little bit longer though too.

[armchairgmParticipant]

He just didn’t fit in with the way bigs are used in todays NBA and he was super super slow and his lack of mobility got exposed big time.

[canadabasketballisrisingParticipant]

@norrin Yes you make a good point here- it’s not about not being wanted-

I think He came to the NBA and probably wanted to start, make big money, etc.. and Because of his fit- t’s not that he was forced out of the NBA, as I said he is quicker than about 1/3rd of the nba true big men (true 7 footers- not many), it’s that because he would only be good enough as a back up big on a minimum contract- he’d rather make the similar money and be a top player back home.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Bad attitude, wasn’t coachable didn’t get along with his teammates. Didn’t fit in. He definitely isn’t slow unathletic thats hilarious. I just watched him catch a lob he had no business catching.

[BothTeamsPlayedHard-Participant]

He entered the draft and came over young, coming off a season where he only averaged 12 minutes per with Panathinaikos in Greece and less in the Euroleague. He wasn’t ready under any circumstances, but was drafted by a team who, at that time, was built around DeMarcus Cousins and dysfunctional. Even after Cousins was traded, they still had Willie Cauley-Stein and Kosta Koufos. They also signed ZBo the next summer, which made it easier to give up on him before he turned 21. Nothing screams something is wrong when a team swallows a year and a half on a rookie contract to cut a guy, so I think that hurt his chances to get a real second chance. To be fair, even upon his return to Panathinaikos, it still took more time before he became a meaningful player. Like with all developmental picks, you can’t just cross your fingers and hope. It takes an organizational plan, commitment, and effort to actually develop the guys. It did not happen.

One more thing, as I remembered yesterday with Boban, the defensive rule difference between the NBA and everywhere else makes the giant so much more valuable even when he doesn’t move especially well.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Yeah I think it was pretty clear that Papigannis had a short fuse/bit of a temper and didn’t get along with the American players and coaches. I’d imagine trying to do stuff like rookie hazing didn’t go well for the vets in this case. His father was also the original Lavar Ball and its pretty well documented.

Also all this slapping a “too big, slow footed” moniker on anyone over 7’0 240 is just getting played out. Obviously anyone that big is going to struggle guarding PG’s on the perimeter if your playing man. The DPOY Rudy Gobert got absolutely exposed on the perimeter this postseason but he still won the award. Hmm. Kinda odd isn’t it.

My thing is whats stopping NBA teams from running zone all night long? Thats what Greece did last night and it almost worked for them despite the massive gap in talent, Canada just heated up from 3 but I guarantee that doesn’t happen everytime and to be fair Greece was letting them shoot from 3 feet outside of the 3point line and that wasn’t smart. Thats what Uraguay did to Turkey and they almost won as well and had the lead for alot of the 4th quarter. Or doing what the Raptors did to win a championship and playing zone when Gasol was on the court unless he was locking down an Embiid, Cousins etc./mixing it up. If you can play zone and still contest jumpshots why don’t teams do it? Is there some sort of mutual agreement in the NBA that teams wont run zone because its not “fun”. To me the BEST NCAA games are when a star player is forced to figure out a zone defense.

[bt102Participant]

If you watched the Clippers Jazz series, you would know that Gobert actually didn’t get exposed. The way the Jazz had to play the Clippers when they went small was to leave someone open so that Gobert can defend the paint because the Clippers were just playing 5 out. If Gobert had stayed on the perimeter, the Jazz’s worse defenders would have gotten coooked and the Clippers would have gotten more efficient shots than they were already getting. So the Clippers would just kick to open shooters and Gobert had to run out to them, and the Clippers being a top 3 team in 3PT shooting buried them. The Jazz gameplan was to leave Pat Bev and Terrence Mann open because they were their worse shooters. But in game 5 and game 6 they hit their shots and that’s why the Clippers won. Game 5 and 6 were pretty close. If all had gone to plan to what the Jazz planned, and Mann and Bev had shot what their average was, the Jazz would have won in 6. Gobert wasn’t played off the floor at all and any of those statements are completely untrue. He lead the Jazz in minutes. It’s also worth noting that in Game 6, he did get hurt, he even said he couldn’t even feel his leg after that fall, and then Lue gameplanned to go at Gobert because he could tell he was hurt, and that’s a major reason why they came back in the second half. Favors defense this series wasn’t good at all, and the Clippers went at him in drives because he wasn’t Gobert. The big man position is being devalued no question, but the elite big men are honestly more valueable. Gobert deserved that DPOY’s, and anyone who actually watches him knows he deserves it. I know I’m a Jazz fan and I get that, but I’m also understand where the Jazz lost this series and I’m in the minority where most of the Jazz fans want Gobert’s head. But don’t forget, Gobert won game 1 and 2 for us. Our injuries to Mike Conley and Donovan ultimately were the reason we couldn’t really beat the Clippers after game 2, because they figured us out, and we really didn’t have a ton of other options.

Can Papigiannis get another shot, yeah probably if he wanted to come back but I don’t think he does.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Gobert got exposed multiple times. Announcers even said plenty of times that the Jazz maybe better off with him off the floor. They had Morris and Batum playing Center, Reggie Jackson would suck in the help kickout the ball and it would move until it found the open shooter that Gobert couldn’t make it too. Don’t sugarcoat it he couldn’t rotate and close out on the perimeter plain and simple. I knew this would happen and thought it would happen against the Grizzlies.

[bt102Participant]

Announcers especially national announcers don’t know what they are talking about. They don’t watch the Jazz. I don’t give a freaking crap what people say or national media say, they don’t like the Jazz. Everybody hates us. They just watch the teams they want to watch. The ones that actually do know what they are talking about, you can actually tell. Doris Burke being one of them. That play the Jazz had no answers for. 100 percent If the Jazz didn’t play Gobert the way they did against the Clippers, the Clippers might have gone for 200 points. Gobert’s defensive rating was around a 100. Favors 140!!! The Clippers also shot about 10% or more above their season averages against the Jazz. Part of it was the game plan but they were just hitting shots. If they were shooting the same way against the Suns right now, this series would already be wrapped up with Clippers in 5. Did Gobert get exposed with his speed? yeah probably. but still are you expecting every single center to be De’Aaron fox fast? If Gobert stayed on the perimter, they would’ve driven into the paint and let’s be fair, the Clippers shooting 80% from the field wouldn’t have been out of the question. Yeah, if Gobert did rotate out to the perimiter, the Jazz don’t have good enough defenders on the other positions to stop them defending PG or someone else getting into the lane and getting an easy 2. Gobert stays near the paint they kick it out. It’s a simple math game. 1.6-1.7 points a possession not to mention the fouls the Jazz would have gotten if they let them shoot 2’s at the rimvs. roughly 1.3-1.5 points a possession if they are shooting 3’s. It’s a simple math game. People are prejudiced against Gobert because
A. His offensive Game isn’t flashy and can’t carry a team
B. He’s gotten viral highlights of a couple plays where he gets crossed. I get it. (literally happens 0.1 percent of the time, and if you disagree you don’t watch him)
C. Because of those plays, people don’t think he deserves DPOY and get mad when he wins it over players like Ben Simmons and Draymond Green (which they don’t deserve it to begin with. They are good but this shouldn’t even be a question)
D. He’s the face of the coronavirus shutdown because of that mic incident (which that was stupid, he shouldn’t have done it. Really bad luck he was the only one that did it and happened to have it)
E. When people actually do watch the Jazz in the playoffs against Gobert, it’s a bad matchup. Why do you think the Clippers wanted us in the semis. Cuz they wanted to go small and drag Gobert out, so that the Jazz defense would struggle when he’s not in the paint.

People can disagree all they want, but there are legitamate reason why he keeps winning DPOY, why even though he hasn’t been as good in the playoffs, the numbers wouldn’t tell you they are that far off, and why he got MVP votes and not Donovan or Mike. Why he lead the league in Plus-Minus, why every single defensive metric said he had a great year (which has never been done) and it didn’t actually change that much in the playoffs. Gobert was a monster againt Memphis. Memphis didn’t have the shooters to knock down those shots as well but the Clippers did. The final few games yes, but the Jazz were injured quite a bit during those games, The Clippers were too but they were used to playing without Kawhi while the Jazz struggled. Look the Clippers deserved to win fair and square. The Jazz played the math and probability game and the Clippers beat those odds. All teams were hurt, i get it. I know I’m a Jazz fan, but I’m not some crazy biased fan or super emotional guy. I respect all teams and watch a fair amount. It is a concern the Jazz have lost the past 4 out of the past 5 years due to small ball lineups (i think that’s also a bit unfair because Houston had Capela), but I also believe if the Jazz can actually get some good 1v1 defenders as well as team defenders, this wouldn’t be an issue.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Believe it or not I actually agree with you. It doesn’t matter who you run in Gobert’s position defensively in that series the outcome would be the same. Unless of course your Deandre Ayton, Anthony Davis, Draymond Green or Ben Simmons. Which is kind of why he got exposed because those guys didn’t end up DPOY Gobert did.

[OhCanada-Participant]

And Doris Burke sounds like an idiot.

[canadabasketballisrisingParticipant]

definitely isn’t slow… dysfunctional franchise and being behind cousins, and decent vets makes sense…. also the no defensive three makes sense, but i was mostly thinking offense… this dude is so tall and mobile, strong, and can shoot… i know lyle isn’t a starter- but this dude is much better. BTW- cathases, Sloukas are better than almost every back up pg… especially Calthases.

[HitsterParticipant]

He probably needed more time to develop when he was drafted and despite some potential in his first year just seemed to go backwards. He only turns 24 this week so if his game has developed then he still has plenty of time to potentially return to the NBA as a role player. But he’d need to be on a more halfcourt based team unless he played a purely defensive anchor rile.

[RUDEBOY-Participant]

I remember Nbadraft.Net Legend European Baller making a post about Euro prospects daily. Papa was 1 of the Guys he mentioned the most. He referred to him as the next Tim Duncan. Guys on here felt he would never 👎🏿 play in the nba. So imagine the Hilarity that ensued when Kings picked him in the Lottery!

[Author]

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