[DolanCareParticipant]

It’s been well-documented. The Orlando Magic have made controversial decisions this offseason with their frontcourt. They gambled big-time for Ibaka, then signed Biymbo to long-term money.

I don’t want to reignite criticism of these transactions, instead I wanted to hear the forum’s thoughts about how this will affect Vucevic. 

He’s been one of the Magic’s best offensive players over the past few seasons. ‘Under the basket’ centers are hardly the cat’s pajamas but Vucevic has value on the trade market. 

With the Magic clearly wanting to make noise in the playoffs, I think it’s important the team not wait until the trade deadline before making a move. Especially considering this team has serious concerns at point guard.

Can Payton and Watson, their PGs at the moment, impress Ibaka enough into resigning? I don’t see how you can take that risk considering what you gave up for him. 

My question: What kind of value could N.V command? and Where could they move him?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

I think Vuc is super underrated honestly. (The year where 4 Hawks starters made the all-star game I really thought Vuc should’ve voted in to it) When people talk about him its always, "oh he plays bad D" or "he’s not athletic enough to defend the PnR". Such statements are somewhat true, but his strengths are way better than his weaknesses. 

For one, he’s a top 3-5 post player in the league but rarely gets mentioned for it. He is very insticntual in the post, and can shoot the hook with ease with both hands.

Now, if you don’t want him in the post, you can always make the guy a spot up shooter. His jumpshoot is as smooth and consistent a jumper in the league. Couple that with the fact that he is an elite rebounder, especially on the offensive glass (and a double-double machine) I’d be really frustrated if the Magic reduce his minutes greatly in favor of Biyombo.

Remember Biyombo stock raised with that series against Cleveland, and deservedly so. But not with the fact that he will get paid 72 million (??) when they’ve already got Ibaka, Gordon and Vuc. Biyombo has brick hands, much like Ezeli and struggles to make the most simple of baskets. 

I would rather the Magic keep Vuc, but if they do want to trade him, I’m really not sure what value he commands. The demand for centers who are offensively gifted but not that athletic are getting lower year by year andVuc can probablly put some blame on Greg Monroe for his lowering stock. I do think he demands at least a 1st round pick in any trade though. His value is massively underrated.

 

 

 

[ChoppyParticipant]

 If Gordon plays the 3 as has been rumoured, shouldn’t there be enough minutes to go around all 3? Pair Vucevic with any of the other 2 at the 4 will cover a lot of his defensive shortcomings. When Vucevic needs to sit, the other 2 can divide time at the 4/5. Foul trouble may necessitate Gordon playing some at the 4. I’m not familiar enough with Orlando’s roster to know who their end of bench bigs are, but between the players I mentioned, there should be plenty of minutes for them all to be happy. Or have I missed something here? 

[HitsterParticipant]

I agree that if Gordon plays SF then there are plenty of minutes to go around. Don’t forget that Ibaka will be a FA next summer and his asking price is likely to be north of $20 million per year.

[mowestenParticipant]

 Ibaka and Vucevic shoot the ball well enough from the perimeter to make up for Gordon’s shortcomings as a traditional 3 … Ideally Biyombo backs up both Ibaka and Vucevic and so some combination of those three would be on the court at all times. If Ibaka and Vucevic start and each play 35 minutes, well that’s still 26 min for Biyombo, which would be about right.

The problem as I see it is where does it leave Gordon. To play the 3 effectively, I think he has to improve his play and knock down perimeter jumpers at a little higher rate (he shot less than 30% from 3 last year). If he does, Orlando could have a really good frontcourt. If he’s a duck out of water and they start benching one of those three (Ibaka, Biyombo, Vucevic) to play Gordon at the 4, it’s going to become a mess.

Don’t forget, they also brought in Jeff Green, who will push Gordon for time at the 3 as well.

[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

 This team will be looking at the. Umber 1 pick next year

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Biyombo worked so well on Toronto because Lowry and Derozan were amongst the most ball dominant iso tandem in the league. Not many duos with a higher usage rating. Lebron/Irving, Westbrook/Durant, Curry/Green, McCollum/Lilliard? His touches with the Raptors were pretty much 5 feet and in, the game was kept simple for him but he still dropped a lot of good passes, missed plenty of easy baskets. In Orlando there is no iso scorer. Payton can create but lacks the scoring ability to do so at the highest level. Fournier will look to take a step forward as a scorer and distributor. They shouldn’t rush to trade Vucevic.

[binetParticipant]

 I think you are overthinking Biyombo’s contract.

The idea is clearly for him to come off-the-bench. It’s just that salaries went through the roof last season and a good backup Center like him or like Mozgov (he will start but should be a backup) earns big money now.

I think the Oladipo-Ibaka trade is significant though. It probably means that Vogel wants to have Fournier and Hezonja to have bigger roles. Fournier already showed he deserved more consideration than Oladipo. That trade probably means Hezonja is highly regarded as well.

On the contrary, it probably means that Gordon is still viewed as a raw prospect. They will try him at the 3 for sure, continue to have him play some time at the 4 when injury happen and all. But he is not part of the "Vogel will get us to the playoff" plan. Picked at #4, that role may even mean he is already a bust.

 

 

 

[DolanCareParticipant]

I don’t think it’s wise to use Mozgov’s contract as a relative comparison. LA wildly overpaid him, and yes he is a benchplayer. 

Biyombo makes 17 million a year. Even with the new cap raising contracts effectively by as much as 25%, that means he would have been paid 13 million under the old CBA…… A lot to pay a bench player. 

 

[binetParticipant]

 The cap raise is way more than 25% though… Cap has been in the $60m range for years until 2015, and now is bumping to 94 and very likely in the 100-110 range next year. 

That still makes Biyombo well paid, but not unrealistic as a 6th man player off-the-bench.

I just don’t see him starting over Vucevic or Ibaka.

 

 

[DolanCareParticipant]

 You’re right, it’s 34%. My bad. I let Bill Simmons get to my head. 

[StephGoneStephParticipant]

I gave a +1 just for using "cat’s pajamas" 

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