This topic contains 34 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by 
BothTeamsPlayedHard 14 years, 11 months ago.
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- Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 12:44pm #31635
Scottoant93ParticipantTrade him
Starting pf
starting C
bench player
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 12:52pm #567045
WizardofOzParticipantThey need to trade him. His okay offensively, but he’s not efficient, is a bad passer, a terrible rebounder, and a terrible defender. And he’s going to stunt Ed Davis’ development.
They already have enough PF’s, and Amir Johnson is a great 3rd big. I find kit ridiculous when people call him overpaid. He’s NOT overpaid!
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 12:52pm #567148
WizardofOzParticipantThey need to trade him. His okay offensively, but he’s not efficient, is a bad passer, a terrible rebounder, and a terrible defender. And he’s going to stunt Ed Davis’ development.
They already have enough PF’s, and Amir Johnson is a great 3rd big. I find kit ridiculous when people call him overpaid. He’s NOT overpaid!
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 12:56pm #567047
mikeyvthedonParticipantIf he is not playing PF, and maybe even if he is, Bargnani lack of aggression on defense and on the boards is a huge liability. Do not get it twisted, he is the Raptors best player, and he can score in a variety of ways. DeRozan obviously provided something nice, but he is not the offensive presence as Bargnani, and if he were the Raps leading scorer next year, they would probably be the worst team in the NBA. Nonetheless, that is not much of a stretch with Bargnani taking on the scoring load. Ed Davis is clearly a 4, and his potential on defense and ability to rebound make Bargnani expendable. You are not paying a guy 8 figures to sit on the bench, and I am sure some team with a vision would take Andrea. Still, I think the Raptors need to drop him and try to start over. I never saw Bargnani as a Center, and him playing there kills the Raps consistently. Bargnani is a Rashard Lewis type of player, and hopefully he goes to a team with a solid rebounder and defender at the 5 spot.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 12:56pm #567150
mikeyvthedonParticipantIf he is not playing PF, and maybe even if he is, Bargnani lack of aggression on defense and on the boards is a huge liability. Do not get it twisted, he is the Raptors best player, and he can score in a variety of ways. DeRozan obviously provided something nice, but he is not the offensive presence as Bargnani, and if he were the Raps leading scorer next year, they would probably be the worst team in the NBA. Nonetheless, that is not much of a stretch with Bargnani taking on the scoring load. Ed Davis is clearly a 4, and his potential on defense and ability to rebound make Bargnani expendable. You are not paying a guy 8 figures to sit on the bench, and I am sure some team with a vision would take Andrea. Still, I think the Raptors need to drop him and try to start over. I never saw Bargnani as a Center, and him playing there kills the Raps consistently. Bargnani is a Rashard Lewis type of player, and hopefully he goes to a team with a solid rebounder and defender at the 5 spot.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 12:57pm #567049
MagikKnickParticipantFor now, keep him at the C, i guess…he gets great mismatches
But overall, i’d wait for Valenciunas, then slide Barg over the 4, if Valenciunas turns out to be what hes expected too, than a PF/C combo of Bargs/Veleniunas would be dominant
Depending on how that combo goes, then they should decide what to do…if it doesnt pan out, then he’ll probably get traded
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 12:57pm #567152
MagikKnickParticipantFor now, keep him at the C, i guess…he gets great mismatches
But overall, i’d wait for Valenciunas, then slide Barg over the 4, if Valenciunas turns out to be what hes expected too, than a PF/C combo of Bargs/Veleniunas would be dominant
Depending on how that combo goes, then they should decide what to do…if it doesnt pan out, then he’ll probably get traded
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 12:59pm #567051
aamir543ParticipantNo, they should make him the focal point of their offense. Run every play for him, tell Ed Davis to make sure Bargs gets all the rebounds. If they do that, then he could have a super-duper-hyper-inflated 26 and 7 guy on a losing team. Then you dangle him at the deadline, wait till someone gets desperate, and then pull the trigger on a an amazing deal that gets them a quality backup big, a quality wing who can get you 13 points a game, plus one or two young peices with loads of potential, plus a late first rounder.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 12:59pm #567154
aamir543ParticipantNo, they should make him the focal point of their offense. Run every play for him, tell Ed Davis to make sure Bargs gets all the rebounds. If they do that, then he could have a super-duper-hyper-inflated 26 and 7 guy on a losing team. Then you dangle him at the deadline, wait till someone gets desperate, and then pull the trigger on a an amazing deal that gets them a quality backup big, a quality wing who can get you 13 points a game, plus one or two young peices with loads of potential, plus a late first rounder.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 1:04pm #567055
Scottoant93Participantalright so far 3 trade him and 1 keep him at center
Follow up question How will Dwayne Casey effect Bargs?
1. turn him into an allstar improving his rebounding and defense
2. casey gives up on him and turns to amir and ed davis
3. bargs never plays for casey
4. bargs is the same player as last year
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 1:04pm #567158
Scottoant93Participantalright so far 3 trade him and 1 keep him at center
Follow up question How will Dwayne Casey effect Bargs?
1. turn him into an allstar improving his rebounding and defense
2. casey gives up on him and turns to amir and ed davis
3. bargs never plays for casey
4. bargs is the same player as last year
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 1:13pm #567063
aamir543Participant1. Casey improves him, maybe not into an allstar, but a better rebounder and defender, and to be honest is it possible to be any worse in those areas? I say he improves slightly, but he will be an amazing scorer. He will be able to absolutley light it up for a losing team. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has 42 and 4 nights, where they lose 120 to 133. But of course all of that is inflated, and I can not really see him helping a contender other than San Anotonio, and they wouldn’t want to take that contract, so I see him going to another bottom feeder, who rolls the dice with him.
Honestly, if my Warriors can get him for Udoh and Beidrins(if Beidrins struggles again.) I would take it. We don’t play any defense as it is, but Hopefully our new staff can instill some defense into him
(I could see it right now, Curry getting the rebound, ahead to Ellis, skip pass to Bargnani, Bargnani for three…… its good! Followed by somone getting posterized on the other end.)
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 1:13pm #567166
aamir543Participant1. Casey improves him, maybe not into an allstar, but a better rebounder and defender, and to be honest is it possible to be any worse in those areas? I say he improves slightly, but he will be an amazing scorer. He will be able to absolutley light it up for a losing team. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has 42 and 4 nights, where they lose 120 to 133. But of course all of that is inflated, and I can not really see him helping a contender other than San Anotonio, and they wouldn’t want to take that contract, so I see him going to another bottom feeder, who rolls the dice with him.
Honestly, if my Warriors can get him for Udoh and Beidrins(if Beidrins struggles again.) I would take it. We don’t play any defense as it is, but Hopefully our new staff can instill some defense into him
(I could see it right now, Curry getting the rebound, ahead to Ellis, skip pass to Bargnani, Bargnani for three…… its good! Followed by somone getting posterized on the other end.)
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 1:35pm #567077
mikeyvthedonParticipantHe might be a better offensive player this year than last year, if he does indeed stay on the Raptors. However, even if he does improve at defense and rebounding (Which for Bargnani, would just require him maybe caring whatsoever on the other end of the floor), he will always be who he is. He is not a person you build a team around, and he very obviously is not going to be Dirk Nowitzki due to his passivity and lack of defensive (and offensive) awareness.
If they can manage to get a nice role player, and some help on the wing, than they should do it in a second. This team is set at 2 positions, SG and PF, but everything else is up for grabs (at least until Valanciunas hopefully takes over at Center). They need depth at every position as well, possibly other than 4. I just think keeping Bargnani for any longer is not in his interest or in the interest of the team.
This trade may kind of suck, but I could see it helping both teams out. I had heard the Suns were shopping Robin at the draft, and I think Mikael Pietrus would be a great upgrade at the 3. They get a needed offensive option in Bargnani. They were already a pretty poor defensive team, and he does not help much there, but I think he would fit in well in Phoenix:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3ez6jyk
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 1:35pm #567180
mikeyvthedonParticipantHe might be a better offensive player this year than last year, if he does indeed stay on the Raptors. However, even if he does improve at defense and rebounding (Which for Bargnani, would just require him maybe caring whatsoever on the other end of the floor), he will always be who he is. He is not a person you build a team around, and he very obviously is not going to be Dirk Nowitzki due to his passivity and lack of defensive (and offensive) awareness.
If they can manage to get a nice role player, and some help on the wing, than they should do it in a second. This team is set at 2 positions, SG and PF, but everything else is up for grabs (at least until Valanciunas hopefully takes over at Center). They need depth at every position as well, possibly other than 4. I just think keeping Bargnani for any longer is not in his interest or in the interest of the team.
This trade may kind of suck, but I could see it helping both teams out. I had heard the Suns were shopping Robin at the draft, and I think Mikael Pietrus would be a great upgrade at the 3. They get a needed offensive option in Bargnani. They were already a pretty poor defensive team, and he does not help much there, but I think he would fit in well in Phoenix:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3ez6jyk
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 3:25pm #567171
Bmore_DCParticipanttrade him for an expiring contract and get a top pick next year (hope for drummond if he comes out)…
he is useless to the raps…plays no defense.
but he would be good on a contender that already has a REAL center
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 3:25pm #567274
Bmore_DCParticipanttrade him for an expiring contract and get a top pick next year (hope for drummond if he comes out)…
he is useless to the raps…plays no defense.
but he would be good on a contender that already has a REAL center
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 3:26pm #567175
Bmore_DCParticipant^^^BTW i didnt mean trade him for a top pick…i just meant they will be even worse without him so they will get a top pick in the lottery…at this point they prob wont get much for him imo
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 3:26pm #567278
Bmore_DCParticipant^^^BTW i didnt mean trade him for a top pick…i just meant they will be even worse without him so they will get a top pick in the lottery…at this point they prob wont get much for him imo
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 3:50pm #567298
Scottoant93ParticipantGood comments from everyone
MikeyV I like the trade to suns, raps improve by getting a young center and also get a defensive minded wing, would fit well with case, bargs to suns would be good as well since nash will find him plenty of open looks, and gortat would be a pretty good center to pair him with
Bmore DC- i wouldn’t call bargs useless becuase he plays no defense, I have watched a few rap games, and have seen plenty of player blow past calderon and derozen but bargs get the blame for not stopping them.
To me bargs is a player you either like or you don’t, which raps fan have expressed that many times before.
My point is if you watch the italian national team(i know they’re not exactly good, but if you watch those last games, they showed a lot of promise of actually being a contender in europe, and they were missing gallo), bargs does play with passion, attacks the basket, post moves, shoot long balls etc. Yes i do understand its reduced talent compared to the nba, but there has to be something that his italian coach is doin to make him play hard something triano(who imo has no plays whatsoever, but was only kept because he was a fan favorite) never could get out of him. So far mitchell has been his best coach, and he even admitted he used bargs wrong. Casey has said the difference between bargs and dirk, is that the mavs surrounded him with defensive minded players, and built the team to support his skill set, later saying this something the raps have failed to do, and what he wants to try to do. Now don’t get me wrong im not saying bargs is gonna breakout and become dirk and lead thr raps to the finals and win, but he is 25 and is basically in his prime, last year was the first year that the team was truely his and he was in control, I believe this is his last chance to prove what kind of player he is, theres no more excuses: has 1 year experience of being the man, has a real coach, been in the league for 5 years. If its for the raps or some other team, next year will be bargs last chance to prove that he can be a good player(won’t say allstar), or he is just basically another jump shooting big man,
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 3:50pm #567195
Scottoant93ParticipantGood comments from everyone
MikeyV I like the trade to suns, raps improve by getting a young center and also get a defensive minded wing, would fit well with case, bargs to suns would be good as well since nash will find him plenty of open looks, and gortat would be a pretty good center to pair him with
Bmore DC- i wouldn’t call bargs useless becuase he plays no defense, I have watched a few rap games, and have seen plenty of player blow past calderon and derozen but bargs get the blame for not stopping them.
To me bargs is a player you either like or you don’t, which raps fan have expressed that many times before.
My point is if you watch the italian national team(i know they’re not exactly good, but if you watch those last games, they showed a lot of promise of actually being a contender in europe, and they were missing gallo), bargs does play with passion, attacks the basket, post moves, shoot long balls etc. Yes i do understand its reduced talent compared to the nba, but there has to be something that his italian coach is doin to make him play hard something triano(who imo has no plays whatsoever, but was only kept because he was a fan favorite) never could get out of him. So far mitchell has been his best coach, and he even admitted he used bargs wrong. Casey has said the difference between bargs and dirk, is that the mavs surrounded him with defensive minded players, and built the team to support his skill set, later saying this something the raps have failed to do, and what he wants to try to do. Now don’t get me wrong im not saying bargs is gonna breakout and become dirk and lead thr raps to the finals and win, but he is 25 and is basically in his prime, last year was the first year that the team was truely his and he was in control, I believe this is his last chance to prove what kind of player he is, theres no more excuses: has 1 year experience of being the man, has a real coach, been in the league for 5 years. If its for the raps or some other team, next year will be bargs last chance to prove that he can be a good player(won’t say allstar), or he is just basically another jump shooting big man,
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 4:23pm #567324
KHAM83ParticipantBargnani can be good, but I think he should be moved. I too think Phoenix should explore moving Pietrus/LOPEZ for Barns. Gortat can make up for Barns deficiencies, and if anyone can make him perform better it’s Nash. Toronto gets Lopez to man the middle till Jonas comes over. they also free up minutes for Amir Johnson and Ed Davis.
I also hear the Bucks are looking to move Jennings and that they are content on seeing what Livingston can do. I can see Jennings for Bargnani/draft pick. Bogut is another center that can make up for Barns deficiencies and Barns is the scorer that can open up the middle for Bogut.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 4:23pm #567221
KHAM83ParticipantBargnani can be good, but I think he should be moved. I too think Phoenix should explore moving Pietrus/LOPEZ for Barns. Gortat can make up for Barns deficiencies, and if anyone can make him perform better it’s Nash. Toronto gets Lopez to man the middle till Jonas comes over. they also free up minutes for Amir Johnson and Ed Davis.
I also hear the Bucks are looking to move Jennings and that they are content on seeing what Livingston can do. I can see Jennings for Bargnani/draft pick. Bogut is another center that can make up for Barns deficiencies and Barns is the scorer that can open up the middle for Bogut.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 7:07pm #567391
rileymcshea3ParticipantWell a Bargani and Valanciunas duo would be great but they have Ed Davis so i would get rid of him….
Hers is some trade ideas ..First one is to the Spurs since the Spurs were trying to trade Tony Parker during the draft and Bargani would be a great next to Tim Duncan and you know Gregg Popovich will make Bargani play some D and get him to rebound,
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3vyor9z
The second one is to the Pacers for Paul George he would be good with Roy Hibbert playing C
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3gblvdz
I could also see him going to the Hawks ,Pistons ,Cavs and Magic.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 7:07pm #567287
rileymcshea3ParticipantWell a Bargani and Valanciunas duo would be great but they have Ed Davis so i would get rid of him….
Hers is some trade ideas ..First one is to the Spurs since the Spurs were trying to trade Tony Parker during the draft and Bargani would be a great next to Tim Duncan and you know Gregg Popovich will make Bargani play some D and get him to rebound,
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3vyor9z
The second one is to the Pacers for Paul George he would be good with Roy Hibbert playing C
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3gblvdz
I could also see him going to the Hawks ,Pistons ,Cavs and Magic.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 7:53pm #567329
Scottoant93ParticipantI like the teams you picked bargs to end up with but idk if san antonio would want calderon, i think they rather get bayless, but you never know the spurs always bring out the best in their players. Pop will definately get bargs to play defense, and rebound. No better person to learn post moves from then tim duncan. I would love to see this trade
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 7:53pm #567433
Scottoant93ParticipantI like the teams you picked bargs to end up with but idk if san antonio would want calderon, i think they rather get bayless, but you never know the spurs always bring out the best in their players. Pop will definately get bargs to play defense, and rebound. No better person to learn post moves from then tim duncan. I would love to see this trade
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 7:55pm #567331
HaleParticipantEither get a great defensive big to make up for him being a liability or trade him. He would be great in Orlando next to Dwight (if he stays).
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 7:55pm #567435
HaleParticipantEither get a great defensive big to make up for him being a liability or trade him. He would be great in Orlando next to Dwight (if he stays).
0 - Posted on: Sun, 07/10/2011 - 6:07am #567588
BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipantThe Raptors are going to battle the Bobcats and Timberwolves for the worst record with Bargnani or without him. When the league opens for business again, they ought to consider dealing him if they can get a first round pick and an expiring contract for him.
0 - Posted on: Sun, 07/10/2011 - 6:07am #567482
BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipantThe Raptors are going to battle the Bobcats and Timberwolves for the worst record with Bargnani or without him. When the league opens for business again, they ought to consider dealing him if they can get a first round pick and an expiring contract for him.
0 - Posted on: Sun, 07/10/2011 - 7:32am #567629
OhCanada-ParticipantBTPH that is what I wanna hear! With this upcoming draft another shot at the top in the lotto would be great. Another thing people dont seem to understand is that Valanciunas may never miss one Raps game due to his buyout agreement, the NBA does not look like they will be playing anytime soon and the fact that he has a completely full schedule of extremely competitive basketball puts him in a great position to develop rather then waiting out the lockout like the rest of the NBA players. Toronto has plenty of time to find a team willing to take on Bargnani, and I really think that is exactly what they should do. Something tells me Valanciunas is going to beast in the Euroleague next year and take strides in his development. This guy is still a kid, he isnt even a man yet remember that.
0 - Posted on: Sun, 07/10/2011 - 7:32am #567521
OhCanada-ParticipantBTPH that is what I wanna hear! With this upcoming draft another shot at the top in the lotto would be great. Another thing people dont seem to understand is that Valanciunas may never miss one Raps game due to his buyout agreement, the NBA does not look like they will be playing anytime soon and the fact that he has a completely full schedule of extremely competitive basketball puts him in a great position to develop rather then waiting out the lockout like the rest of the NBA players. Toronto has plenty of time to find a team willing to take on Bargnani, and I really think that is exactly what they should do. Something tells me Valanciunas is going to beast in the Euroleague next year and take strides in his development. This guy is still a kid, he isnt even a man yet remember that.
0 - Posted on: Sun, 07/10/2011 - 12:17pm #567862
BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipantI don’t see Valanciunas making a huge leap. His problem is that he is a twig with unpolished skills and a lack of overall athleticism. That doesn’t get exposed against 18 year olds, and that is why a guy like Ogilvy dominated that event but had a middling college career as well as a nice but not special season in Turkey. It is why Paulao Prestes could drop 23-15 in the u19, but is still a big, unpolished foul prone mess against the men. Mario Delas was great in 2009, but he hasn’t come around much on the senior level. The flaws get exposed against bigger, stronger opposition, and getting worked over doesn’t result in a guy getting better when the issues are largely outside of his control.
0 - Posted on: Sun, 07/10/2011 - 12:17pm #567751
BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipantI don’t see Valanciunas making a huge leap. His problem is that he is a twig with unpolished skills and a lack of overall athleticism. That doesn’t get exposed against 18 year olds, and that is why a guy like Ogilvy dominated that event but had a middling college career as well as a nice but not special season in Turkey. It is why Paulao Prestes could drop 23-15 in the u19, but is still a big, unpolished foul prone mess against the men. Mario Delas was great in 2009, but he hasn’t come around much on the senior level. The flaws get exposed against bigger, stronger opposition, and getting worked over doesn’t result in a guy getting better when the issues are largely outside of his control.
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