[BallerScriptParticipant]

 A lot of people would call Anthony Bennett a bust and a majority of fans think Kristaps Porzingis will fall down that same line but my question is what is the critera for a bust and when is a player a ‘bust’?

[mgreener_34Participant]

I know I’m not as extreme as a lot of responses you’re going to get, but in my opinion, a bust is a player who has high expectations, but can’t become a solid rotation player. When I think of busts I think of Tyrus Thomas, Al Thorton, Westley Johnson, and Terrance Williams. These guys all had good skills and abilities which could contribute to winning basketball, yet none of them ever put it together, and because of that they busted and are most likely out of the league. 

You can’t let other people projections and expectations ruin a players career in my opinion though. We see this all the time when it comes to the draft, and personally, it disgusts me. So and so was supposed to go this high, yet every year we see players like Kawhii/George/ThompsonButler slip in the draft. It’s not an exact science, and people need to get over themselves, and stop selling players short. 

For example, Andrea Bargnani is one of the most ridiculed players I’ve ever seen since I started watching basketball. He’s been called one of the biggest dissapointments in years, terrible #1, and everything he does in the league is mocked. Yet despite all that, the guy has had 9 solid years in the league, and in his prime was putting up 20/5/2. He’s not a bust in my opinion, he just didn’t live up to expectations. Another player who’s considered a bust, Rodney Stucky, was touted as the next big thing in Detroit, and I remember hearing that he was considered the only untouchable on that team. Hell, he’s the reason they traded Chauncy away, and people just expected more. But like Bargs, he’s been a solid 8 year pro who has scored in double didgets in all but his first NBA season. 

[mgreener_34Participant]

I know I’m not as extreme as a lot of responses you’re going to get, but in my opinion, a bust is a player who has high expectations, but can’t become a solid rotation player. When I think of busts I think of Tyrus Thomas, Al Thorton, Westley Johnson, and Terrance Williams. These guys all had good skills and abilities which could contribute to winning basketball, yet none of them ever put it together, and because of that they busted and are most likely out of the league. 

You can’t let other people projections and expectations ruin a players career in my opinion though. We see this all the time when it comes to the draft, and personally, it disgusts me. So and so was supposed to go this high, yet every year we see players like Kawhii/George/ThompsonButler slip in the draft. It’s not an exact science, and people need to get over themselves, and stop selling players short. 

For example, Andrea Bargnani is one of the most ridiculed players I’ve ever seen since I started watching basketball. He’s been called one of the biggest dissapointments in years, terrible #1, and everything he does in the league is mocked. Yet despite all that, the guy has had 9 solid years in the league, and in his prime was putting up 20/5/2. He’s not a bust in my opinion, he just didn’t live up to expectations. Another player who’s considered a bust, Rodney Stucky, was touted as the next big thing in Detroit, and I remember hearing that he was considered the only untouchable on that team. Hell, he’s the reason they traded Chauncy away, and people just expected more. But like Bargs, he’s been a solid 8 year pro who has scored in double didgets in all but his first NBA season. 

[trelos6Participant]

If Bargnani went 5th or later, I’d be fine with it.

But he went #1.  Ahead of LaMarcus Aldridge, Brandon Roy and Rudy Gay.

Then again, 2006 wasn’t a very strong draft.

You’ve convinced me to give him a pass.  

 

  

[trelos6Participant]

If Bargnani went 5th or later, I’d be fine with it.

But he went #1.  Ahead of LaMarcus Aldridge, Brandon Roy and Rudy Gay.

Then again, 2006 wasn’t a very strong draft.

You’ve convinced me to give him a pass.  

 

  

[Rip255]

The recipe for a bust is as follows:

• Top 5 pick
• Taken ahead of significantly better players
• Extremely underwhelming career in comparison to expectations. Definitely lower than league average for the position

Bonus Ingredients

• Pre-Draft Hype based on ‘upside’
• A sense of mystery, letting peoples imagine’s run wild.

Optional Ingredients

• Injury striking down an otherwise talented player won’t stop people using the term

Busts – Darko, Bennett, Beasley, Turner. Bargnani, Wesley Johnston

Not Busts – K-Mart, Bogut, Ben Gordon, MKG, Joe Smith

 

 

 

[Rip255]

The recipe for a bust is as follows:

• Top 5 pick
• Taken ahead of significantly better players
• Extremely underwhelming career in comparison to expectations. Definitely lower than league average for the position

Bonus Ingredients

• Pre-Draft Hype based on ‘upside’
• A sense of mystery, letting peoples imagine’s run wild.

Optional Ingredients

• Injury striking down an otherwise talented player won’t stop people using the term

Busts – Darko, Bennett, Beasley, Turner. Bargnani, Wesley Johnston

Not Busts – K-Mart, Bogut, Ben Gordon, MKG, Joe Smith

 

 

 

[machu46Participant]

Legitimate question because the Joe Smith draft was before I was old enough to really know basketball…

what makes him not a bust while Bargnani is a bust?  I know he had a long career in the NBA, but the vast majority of it was just as a role player.

 

[machu46Participant]

Legitimate question because the Joe Smith draft was before I was old enough to really know basketball…

what makes him not a bust while Bargnani is a bust?  I know he had a long career in the NBA, but the vast majority of it was just as a role player.

 

[Bed HeadParticipant]

It’s just too bad you didn’t follow your own instructions closely enough.

Because, by those standards, Joe Smith would CLEARLY count as a "bust". (And MKG also, actually.)

 

[Bed HeadParticipant]

It’s just too bad you didn’t follow your own instructions closely enough.

Because, by those standards, Joe Smith would CLEARLY count as a "bust". (And MKG also, actually.)

 

[trelos6Participant]

For me, a bust is someone failing to meet up to expecations.

If a guy drafted 56th is out of the league in a year, or never makes it past summer league, no one cares.  Low expectation, more like NO expectations.

I think Bennett is definitely a bust.  He was a #1 pick (albeit in a weak draft), but if you look at the #1 picks in the last 10 years Wiggins, Bennett, Davis, Irving, Wall, Griffin, Rose, Oden, Bargnani, Bogut.

Of those guys, I wouldn’t take Bennett over any of them.  Oden was unlucky through injuries.  Bargnani was also a bust.

Bennett can still turn it around, but I don’t see him becoming the Larry Johnson type player he was projected to be.

I think Kristaps is a guy who will take a year of seasoning, but if the Knicks play their cards right, he will be a stud in year 2 (a la Giannis).  That said, if the Knicks f it up, I see a Yi Jianlian type career (plays like LBJ in Chinese league once he left the NBA).

 

 

 

  

[trelos6Participant]

For me, a bust is someone failing to meet up to expecations.

If a guy drafted 56th is out of the league in a year, or never makes it past summer league, no one cares.  Low expectation, more like NO expectations.

I think Bennett is definitely a bust.  He was a #1 pick (albeit in a weak draft), but if you look at the #1 picks in the last 10 years Wiggins, Bennett, Davis, Irving, Wall, Griffin, Rose, Oden, Bargnani, Bogut.

Of those guys, I wouldn’t take Bennett over any of them.  Oden was unlucky through injuries.  Bargnani was also a bust.

Bennett can still turn it around, but I don’t see him becoming the Larry Johnson type player he was projected to be.

I think Kristaps is a guy who will take a year of seasoning, but if the Knicks play their cards right, he will be a stud in year 2 (a la Giannis).  That said, if the Knicks f it up, I see a Yi Jianlian type career (plays like LBJ in Chinese league once he left the NBA).

 

 

 

  

[BleedGreen808Participant]

 I agree that it’s all about expectations and how high a player gets drafted.  A player picked #1 is expected to be great even though it’s not always the case.  In Bennett’s defense though it’s not his fault that he was picked #1.  I remember barely anybody had him at #1 in their mock(I think most had him going to Washington).  He should have never been the #1 player in that draft.  The Cavs drafted him when he couldn’t even workout for them due to a shoulder injury.  On draft day he didn’t even know he was going to be the pick.  After he struggled early the Cavs refused to put him in the d-league, which didn’t help his development.  

He’ll likely never live up to the expectations of a #1 pick.  By those standards he will be considered a bust.  At this point I feel for the guy and I just want to see him turn it around.  

[BleedGreen808Participant]

 I agree that it’s all about expectations and how high a player gets drafted.  A player picked #1 is expected to be great even though it’s not always the case.  In Bennett’s defense though it’s not his fault that he was picked #1.  I remember barely anybody had him at #1 in their mock(I think most had him going to Washington).  He should have never been the #1 player in that draft.  The Cavs drafted him when he couldn’t even workout for them due to a shoulder injury.  On draft day he didn’t even know he was going to be the pick.  After he struggled early the Cavs refused to put him in the d-league, which didn’t help his development.  

He’ll likely never live up to the expectations of a #1 pick.  By those standards he will be considered a bust.  At this point I feel for the guy and I just want to see him turn it around.  

[herceg_bukuParticipant]

What seems to be a trend for most topics when it comes to busts is the European players that were busts, but not often are American ones mentioned, let me mention some that nobody every brings up almost ever. This is a list of JUST the guys that went 1st overall:

Danny Manning, Pervis Ellsion, Joe Smith, Kenyon Martin, Kwame Brown, Greg Oden, Brad Daughtery…

My point is that 90% of starting Centres in the NBA now are European or at least international, meaning there is this bias that is incorrect. Granted, there are European busts, the myth is much more of a popular topic amongst NBA fans that know basic basketball and what they hear from certain commentators. Most skilled big men in the league aside from DeMarcus and Aldrige are all Europeans. The knock on Eurpeans that i will say is and truthfully in my opinion is that they are not great defenders, well at least most of them.

 

As for a bust, a bust is in my opinion someone that has all the tools in the world and goes top 5, but doesnt put them to use.

 

 

[herceg_bukuParticipant]

What seems to be a trend for most topics when it comes to busts is the European players that were busts, but not often are American ones mentioned, let me mention some that nobody every brings up almost ever. This is a list of JUST the guys that went 1st overall:

Danny Manning, Pervis Ellsion, Joe Smith, Kenyon Martin, Kwame Brown, Greg Oden, Brad Daughtery…

My point is that 90% of starting Centres in the NBA now are European or at least international, meaning there is this bias that is incorrect. Granted, there are European busts, the myth is much more of a popular topic amongst NBA fans that know basic basketball and what they hear from certain commentators. Most skilled big men in the league aside from DeMarcus and Aldrige are all Europeans. The knock on Eurpeans that i will say is and truthfully in my opinion is that they are not great defenders, well at least most of them.

 

As for a bust, a bust is in my opinion someone that has all the tools in the world and goes top 5, but doesnt put them to use.

 

 

[mcgee555Participant]

90% of starting centers in the NBA are international? You might want to fact check that one. 

[mcgee555Participant]

90% of starting centers in the NBA are international? You might want to fact check that one. 

[herceg_bukuParticipant]

 Raptors- Valaciunis, Bucks- Pachulia, Wizards- Gortat, Magic- Vucetic, Bulls- Gasol, Cleveland – Mozgov/Varejao, Boston- Olynyk (or Zeller who is American)

Warriors- Bogut, Grizlies- Gasol, Spurs- Splitter (a lot of times its Duncan at Centre), Pelicans- Asik, Thunder- Ibaka, Timberwolves- Pekovic, Nuggets- it will be Nurkic, Suns- Len, Mavericks- Nowitzki (PF/C)

Not 90% but u get the drift, not so soft internationals

 

[herceg_bukuParticipant]

 Raptors- Valaciunis, Bucks- Pachulia, Wizards- Gortat, Magic- Vucetic, Bulls- Gasol, Cleveland – Mozgov/Varejao, Boston- Olynyk (or Zeller who is American)

Warriors- Bogut, Grizlies- Gasol, Spurs- Splitter (a lot of times its Duncan at Centre), Pelicans- Asik, Thunder- Ibaka, Timberwolves- Pekovic, Nuggets- it will be Nurkic, Suns- Len, Mavericks- Nowitzki (PF/C)

Not 90% but u get the drift, not so soft internationals

 

[redsoxfreak724Participant]

At 6’11 Danny Manning had a 15 year career, made 2 All Star games, and never averaged less than 16 PPG in his 1st 7 seasons. Maybe not a #1 overall pick "success" but certainly not a bust.

[redsoxfreak724Participant]

At 6’11 Danny Manning had a 15 year career, made 2 All Star games, and never averaged less than 16 PPG in his 1st 7 seasons. Maybe not a #1 overall pick "success" but certainly not a bust.

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

 Maybe I didn’t quite understand what you were getting at when you named him…but did you really mention Daugherty as a bust? He was a five-time All-Star during the greatest era for centers of all time, he also retired at the age of 28 due to back problems. He might have been a borderline hall of famer if he hadn’t had injury problems. He was actually a fairly similiar player to Pau Gasol. 

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

 Maybe I didn’t quite understand what you were getting at when you named him…but did you really mention Daugherty as a bust? He was a five-time All-Star during the greatest era for centers of all time, he also retired at the age of 28 due to back problems. He might have been a borderline hall of famer if he hadn’t had injury problems. He was actually a fairly similiar player to Pau Gasol. 

[jwall1Participant]

 I think it is unfair to call Bennet a bust this early. He has struggled with injuries/health issue and has not been given much of a chance yet. 

[jwall1Participant]

 I think it is unfair to call Bennet a bust this early. He has struggled with injuries/health issue and has not been given much of a chance yet. 

[Stop_basketball_nonsenseParticipant]

 I think a bust in sports in general is as in most cases in life are biased & circumstantial. The pick of a player in the draft along with expectations and past credentials or hype starts the process of expectations of a player before he plays in the nba.                

 The higher the pick the more hard pressed the pressure to live up to expectations, but who sets those expectations, or more specifically who sets the specifics of those expectations. Is there a deadline one has to reach to meet these expectations. Is there a stat line one has to meet on a year-by-year basis to exceed bust requirements? Does a high pick mean necessarily, unquestionably a franchise player or just a player whose skills are necessary in helping the franchise.            

 Bargnani had many productive years in toronto & maybe with a good post player to compliment him, like a marc gasol, d.howard, or brook lopez he might have been more comfortable. Him & bosh together were never a physical frontcourt tandem at all as they bosh need rim security on offense, meaning a guy who can score inside to help open up their shots sense they are both jump shooting 4s. Then he went to new york, after injury so maybe he wasnt the same player anymore anyway. He was to forced to play center& with him not being fast enough to guard most 4s & melo seemingly only playing d when he feels like it, it certainly didn’t help Andrea out.(added it made the work load on chandler too much at times.)

 

Kwame brown maybe wasn’t the force down low that a number 1 pick might warrant, but he still had a long, productive, and yes underacheiving by most standards type of career. Still, he made more money than most and lasted longer than most players to come through the nba as the average nba life is around 3 or 4 years.

           

Like most aspects that can be questioned in life rarely is there a exact, undubitable correct answer. The term bust in sports will always be based on opinion & the strengh of evidence in making your claim. For me i have only been covering the nba draft strongly for around a decade & in my opinion there has only been 1 true bust & that’s yi jilian or however its spelled. Darko had some nice years, I think a lot of his criticism comes from who he came ahead of and how their careers flourished. Beasly’s enemy was his attitude not talent but maybe that can be part of your criteria as well,attitude. Basically a bust is whatever you make it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stop_basketball_nonsenseParticipant]

 I think a bust in sports in general is as in most cases in life are biased & circumstantial. The pick of a player in the draft along with expectations and past credentials or hype starts the process of expectations of a player before he plays in the nba.                

 The higher the pick the more hard pressed the pressure to live up to expectations, but who sets those expectations, or more specifically who sets the specifics of those expectations. Is there a deadline one has to reach to meet these expectations. Is there a stat line one has to meet on a year-by-year basis to exceed bust requirements? Does a high pick mean necessarily, unquestionably a franchise player or just a player whose skills are necessary in helping the franchise.            

 Bargnani had many productive years in toronto & maybe with a good post player to compliment him, like a marc gasol, d.howard, or brook lopez he might have been more comfortable. Him & bosh together were never a physical frontcourt tandem at all as they bosh need rim security on offense, meaning a guy who can score inside to help open up their shots sense they are both jump shooting 4s. Then he went to new york, after injury so maybe he wasnt the same player anymore anyway. He was to forced to play center& with him not being fast enough to guard most 4s & melo seemingly only playing d when he feels like it, it certainly didn’t help Andrea out.(added it made the work load on chandler too much at times.)

 

Kwame brown maybe wasn’t the force down low that a number 1 pick might warrant, but he still had a long, productive, and yes underacheiving by most standards type of career. Still, he made more money than most and lasted longer than most players to come through the nba as the average nba life is around 3 or 4 years.

           

Like most aspects that can be questioned in life rarely is there a exact, undubitable correct answer. The term bust in sports will always be based on opinion & the strengh of evidence in making your claim. For me i have only been covering the nba draft strongly for around a decade & in my opinion there has only been 1 true bust & that’s yi jilian or however its spelled. Darko had some nice years, I think a lot of his criticism comes from who he came ahead of and how their careers flourished. Beasly’s enemy was his attitude not talent but maybe that can be part of your criteria as well,attitude. Basically a bust is whatever you make it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 Wish I had watched Pervis Ellison in college.  Or even earlier in his career.

He had a GREAT year stat wise when he was young and healthy.  Very Anthony Davis-ish with 20 and 10 and some blocks and all that.  About the same size…  

I compared Anthony Davis to PRIME Pervis.  

Hopefully, AD holds up.  Hopefully they put stuff around him.  

I would hate to see him fall apart, like what happened to Derrick Rose (recently).  D Rose isn’t down for the count, but his career trajectory is a little lower than what we all thought it would be.

Injuries happpen, so you have to grade guys like Pervis or Sam Bowie on a curve.  

Now a BUST would be Michael Olawakandi.  I don’t think he had an excuse to be a bust.  Just a wash out, didn’t even hang around for years like Kwame Brown.  Now, he was probably drafted too high, so a GM should get some heat, but Candy Man had no excuses.

Guys who aren’t even SERVICEABLE for a few years?

That’s my definition of a BUST.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 Wish I had watched Pervis Ellison in college.  Or even earlier in his career.

He had a GREAT year stat wise when he was young and healthy.  Very Anthony Davis-ish with 20 and 10 and some blocks and all that.  About the same size…  

I compared Anthony Davis to PRIME Pervis.  

Hopefully, AD holds up.  Hopefully they put stuff around him.  

I would hate to see him fall apart, like what happened to Derrick Rose (recently).  D Rose isn’t down for the count, but his career trajectory is a little lower than what we all thought it would be.

Injuries happpen, so you have to grade guys like Pervis or Sam Bowie on a curve.  

Now a BUST would be Michael Olawakandi.  I don’t think he had an excuse to be a bust.  Just a wash out, didn’t even hang around for years like Kwame Brown.  Now, he was probably drafted too high, so a GM should get some heat, but Candy Man had no excuses.

Guys who aren’t even SERVICEABLE for a few years?

That’s my definition of a BUST.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TRC1991Participant]

Bargnani is a bust, sorry, but he’s arguably the worst defensive big man in the NBA, as well as the worst rebounding big. He’s flat out miserably bad. 

[TRC1991Participant]

Bargnani is a bust, sorry, but he’s arguably the worst defensive big man in the NBA, as well as the worst rebounding big. He’s flat out miserably bad. 

[bimirudParticipant]

Both those guys made multiple All-Star teams. As a Raptors fan, Bargnani leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but his career stats are better than I thought. It’s all about expectations. You expect a #1 pick to be a perennial All-Star or a Hall of Famer. But is it fair to a young player to tag him with the "bust" label when it was the GM who screwed up, not the kid? Maybe a better term would be "GM Snafu."

[bimirudParticipant]

Both those guys made multiple All-Star teams. As a Raptors fan, Bargnani leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but his career stats are better than I thought. It’s all about expectations. You expect a #1 pick to be a perennial All-Star or a Hall of Famer. But is it fair to a young player to tag him with the "bust" label when it was the GM who screwed up, not the kid? Maybe a better term would be "GM Snafu."

[SmooveKRYPTParticipant]

Adam Morrison

[SmooveKRYPTParticipant]

Adam Morrison

[sheltwon3Participant]

 Kandi man actually had some good years but yes he was drafted to high by a Clippers front office that were really terrible at the time. 

Injuries ended his career but he did show promise early on.  I think it is still too early to call Bennett a bust.  Also Derrick Williams for a 2nd pick could be considered a bust because he has yet to find a legit NBA role.

Wesley Johnson got drafted too high because a lot of people knew he only did well in college because he was a little bit older than some and yes he did play well but there were holes in his game but he still has some talent if he can get his head right to be a contributor.

A lot of success was based on mental when it comes to talented basketball players.  Kwame may have had a better carreer if not drafted by MJ and the Wiz.  The psychological damage they did to him at an early age he could never shake.  Kwame was strong and a pretty good defender on pick and rolls for the Lakers before he got shipped for Pau Gasol.  Why are people saying Kenyon Martin was a bust, that is just stupid.

 

 

 

[sheltwon3Participant]

 Kandi man actually had some good years but yes he was drafted to high by a Clippers front office that were really terrible at the time. 

Injuries ended his career but he did show promise early on.  I think it is still too early to call Bennett a bust.  Also Derrick Williams for a 2nd pick could be considered a bust because he has yet to find a legit NBA role.

Wesley Johnson got drafted too high because a lot of people knew he only did well in college because he was a little bit older than some and yes he did play well but there were holes in his game but he still has some talent if he can get his head right to be a contributor.

A lot of success was based on mental when it comes to talented basketball players.  Kwame may have had a better carreer if not drafted by MJ and the Wiz.  The psychological damage they did to him at an early age he could never shake.  Kwame was strong and a pretty good defender on pick and rolls for the Lakers before he got shipped for Pau Gasol.  Why are people saying Kenyon Martin was a bust, that is just stupid.

 

 

 

[SoIntentionalParticipant]

Nikoloz Tskitishvili

 

[SoIntentionalParticipant]

Nikoloz Tskitishvili

 

[Author]

Posts