[llperez]

so wanted to discuss why the west has been so consistently ahead of the east since 2000(didnt do any research from before 2000 since it seemed like it was around then that the west started becoming the dominant conference)

Since 2000, the west has won the regular season head to head matchups vs the east 18 out 19 times
The lone exception was the 2008-09 season when the east went +12 vs the west that year.

during that stretch, the west has won 13 nba titles to the easts 6 nba titles

Now lets look at teams in the west who just missed the playoffs and how they would have fared with the same record in the east( not even taking into account that they probably would have won even more games had they played in the eastern conference all year)

2018 , denver finishes 9th in west with 46 wins which would have made them the 6 seed in the east

2015 thunder finish 9th with 45 wins which would place them 6th in east. 10th place suns would have also made it in east

2014 suns finish 9th in west with 48 wins which would have placed them 3rd in east. 10th place minnesota would have also made it in east.

2013 jazz finish 9th in west with 43 wins which would have been 7th in east. 10th place dallas would have also made it in east

2011, the 9th, 10th and 11th place teams in the west would have all made the playoffs in the east

2010, the 9th place rockets would have been in the 8 seed out east

2009, the 9th place suns would have been the 5 seed in the east

2008, the warriors missed the playoffs with 48 wins which would have given them home court advantage in the first round out east. 10th and 11th place in west would also have made the playoffs in the east.

2006 9th place utah would have been the 6 seed in the east

2005 9th place minnesota would have been 6th seed in east

2004 9th place utah would have been 4 seed in east. the 10th, 11th and 12th place teams in west also all finished good enough to make playoffs in east.

2003 9th place houston would have 7th seed in east

2001 9th place houston would have been 7 seed in west. 10th place minnesota was also good enough to be 7th seed in east

………..

So question is why have we had such a long stretch of west being better then east and do you think it would be fair to make playoffs the best 16 teams since the conferences have been lopsided for so long and only seem to be getting more so as we go forward?

[cohenbc1Participant]

 Well part of it is that the West has the Spurs and Lakers, and to a lesser extent the Mavs … three franchises that built a culture and an identity that allowed them to remain great even as individual players aged and declined. From roughly 2001-2011 anyway, these three teams were almost a lock to win 50+ games. (And as the Lakers and Mavs declined post-2011, the Warriors and Rockets developed distinctive winning identities and took their place.)

The East has had nothing like this in the 21st century. The Pistons were strong for awhile, 2003-08, then it was the Celtics with the Big Three for a few years, then it was just whatever team LeBron played for. But no Eastern franchises built a culture that could survive the decline or loss of individual players.

 

[celtics1982Participant]

 Spurs having Duncan, Lakers Kobe, Mavs having Dirk, Warriors having Curry and now Durant. They not only got the stars,  but they kept them long-term. It goes in cycles, East won 7 of 10 championships in the 90s for example.  East won 13 straight championships at one point a long time ago. Overall the East leads all-time 38 to 32 in Championships.

So no you don’t change anything.

 

 

[llperez]

 but even in the 80’s and 90’s, the east wasnt top to bottom better then the west year after year. They may have had the individual best team a number of years, but im more talking about the conference as a whole and this is going to be the 20th straight year where the west is top to bottom better

edit: to expand on that, throughout the 90’s, the west had 6 of the top 10 teams four times. 5 of top 10 four times. and 4 of top 10 two times. It was basically complete parity minus the bulls winning majority of titles. even looking at the 8th seeds during the 90’s, 4x west had better 8 seed, 5 times east had better 8th seed and once they were tied. Were just not seeing this type of balance anymore that we had in the past. 

 

 

[celtics1982Participant]

 The West also had 3 of the 4 worst teams in the league. Which could be a reason why a bunch of those other teams had more wins. Looking at point differential we see the samething 3 of the 4 worst teams and by far and away the two worst teams.

The West had two teams win 50 games, the East had four. This isn’t as simple as your making it sound. I also think the West teams at least this year do a better job at tanking, plus the Kings got lucky. Ever think what if the Celtics got Duncan or Durant? It could have litterally shifted the Championship total in the Easts favor.

Nevermind you need to look at location. Players much rather the warmer cities of the West compared to the crappy snowy cold cities in the East. Things might be different if Basketball wasn’t played during winter in the East. I’m born and eaised in Massachusetts, but I think I’m crazy for staying here during our crazy bad winters. It just sucks the older you get. I got 6 feet of snow in March last year and had a negative 56 degree day when counting wind chill. 

 

 

[llperez]

“The West also had 3 of the 4 worst teams in the league. Which could be a reason why a bunch of those other teams had more wins. Looking at point differential we see the samething 3 of the 4 worst teams and by far and away the two worst teams.”
… no idea what youre talking about, what 3 worst teams? what year? when?who? what are we talking about?

“The West had two teams win 50 games, the East had four. This isn’t as simple as your making it sound”
….again when , what year are you talking about? There is zero clarity in your comments I went back almost 30 years and clearly labeled every year in my comments, why do I need to randomly guess what years youre talking about when you mention stats?

“Never mind you need to look at location. Players much rather the warmer cities of the West compared to the crappy snowy cold cities in the East. Things might be different if Basketball wasn’t played during winter in the East. I’m born and eaised in Massachusetts, but I think I’m crazy for staying here during our crazy bad winters. It just sucks the older you get. I got 6 feet of snow in March last year and had a negative 56 degree day when counting wind chill.”
…yes this is some of the stuff im talking about, things beyond just random luck. Do teams on the west have an advantage with recruiting players due to weather. This is the stuff im trying to get at exactly!

[celtics1982Participant]

 The worst teams this year Suns, Grizz, the Mavs and Hawks tied for 3/4.

West had Warriors and Rockets win 50 games, East had Raptors, Celtics, Sixers, and Cavs.

I’m not going to look at 17 years of data, just pointing out things are as simple as comparing the 9th and 10th teams in each league. Or head to head records or even titles over only a short period. Nevermind if your going to say things like the West wins head to head matchups, what are the numbers? Is it close or not? Is the West winning by a few games in a lot of years or by some massive number? It’s just such a limited amount of games it means very little. The East play the West teams what twice a year?

 

 

[llperez]

 i dont think it matters if its close or not if it happens 20 striaght years in a row minus once. Thats means its a consistent pattern. 

[celtics1982Participant]

 It sure does given the limited sample size. When your talking 2 games against each team there is a massive amount of luck involved. Its why the playoffs are 7 games, you need more than a few games to truly determine the better team. 

Just looking at this year you have no idea how Denver for example does in the East. They very well could have been 9th in the East. You need to look at so many virables to even try to answer that question. Yet your looking at just a few. For example Denver was last in its division. Look at the Alantic it had 3 teams win 50 games. There are so many variables per confrence and even in divisons. Heck maybe Denver makes the playoffs if they play in a different division in the West. We haven’t even talked about how teams match up either, which matters.

 

[llperez]

 i think my stats i presented are quite fair

the west has beaten the east head to head top to bottom in 18 of the last 19 years. Very hard to chalk that up to coincidence. The worst records to make the western playoffs  are routinely  better then the worst records to make the east over the last 19 years which I highlighted quite clearly. These are not hypothetical numbers, these are facts. Ask any NBA fan if the east has been on par with the west and they will say no if they have a clue of what they are talking about. You tried to counter my argument by saying the overall number of titles is still in favor of the east due to the celtics of the 50’s and 60’s which lis very disingenuous to the topic im bringing up which is modern basketball

 

 

[celtics1982Participant]

 If you wanted to just make a statement I wouldn’t have replied. Its that you want more West teams in the playoffs. So then its a debate if the Nuggets deserve a playoff spot over the Wiz. That is a question that needs a lot more detail to answer. Because unless your 100% certain that the Nuggets are better, your whole take the best 16 teams means nothing. You’d basically have to change everything. Like East teams playing 4 games per year per division teams and more games against East teams to make things fair.

[llperez]

 i feel like im just repeating myself over and over here. If the west beats the east head to head every single year, and the bottom playoff  teams in the west have better records then the east every single year, then its fair to say at some point maybe we should explore the idea that 20 years of consecutive data is not some random coinsicdence. 

[MachettiParticipant]

He’s thinking of just ranking the best record of the 16 teams in the playoffs which would make the East irrelevant. With that said I just think that the West has been lucky with getting the top heavy picks in historically stronger draft classes. Just look at a few franchise changing type bigs in Anthony Davis and Karl Towns. Now the Suns will be another up and coming team with Ayton. So not sure if it’s just luck or that the west has better player development? 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Warm weather for Western conference teams.

[XYRYXParticipant]

 

I think the playoff format should stay how it is. The East West thing is part of the system and it would take away this aspect of the game which sometimes is hard if you don’t make the playoffs west but would be home court first round in the east. If the competition is unbalanced like it is this means you have to be better in your division and don’t deserve to play playoff basketball.

And on top of that if the east vs west championship is still in favor of the east why are we even talking about that. 

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