[rileymcshea3Participant]

 Pick your position on who the Cavaliers would be better off with.

Kevin Love or Andrew Wiggins? Pick one and back up your opinion with reasons why they would be better with one or the other.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Kevin Love

– There’s no questioning Andrew Wiggins’ upside, but LeBron will be 30 this season. Does he really have time to wait two or three years for Wiggins to develop? 

Love is literally the perfect compliment for LeBron TODAY. Not only that, the dude is a flat out stud on the glass and at the offensive end. Defensively, he’s average, but he’ll at least learn where he needs to be. 

It’s a no brainer to me. With Wiggins… You compete for a title in two or three years. With Love, you compete this season AND for the next three to five years. 

 

[GrandmamaParticipant]

If Lebron can take the 2007 Cavs to the finals, I think this team can compete for a title this year.  Their current team is better than the one in ’07, and Lebron is a smarter, more efficient player than he was in ’07.

 

Of course their team is better this year with Love instead of Wiggins.  That’s undeniable.  But is sacrificing one of the best prosects in years worth the risk?  I don’t think it is.

 

Yes, the Cavs would be better this year, and probably next year as well.  But what about two years down the road?  Three?  Five?  I’m not too sure they are better then.  Wiggins could very well turn into a superstar, and at the very least should develop into an 18/6/3 type with elite defense.

 

And like I’ve said, Minnesota has zero leverage.  Love isn’t resigning, so Minnesota is in a spot to either trade him and acquire assets, or let him walk.  If they want to be stubborn and demand players, then they will shoot themselves in the foot.  I guess they can use a potential deal with the Warriors as leverage, but that really isn’t a big deal in my opinion.  The Cavs could simply trade for someone like Paul Millsap and not have to give up one of the best trade chips in basketball which is Wiggins.  And that’s exactly what I’d do, trade Waiters/Bennett and a pick or two for Millsap.  They keep Wiggins, and get a very good player in Millsap in return.

 

 

[GrandmamaParticipant]

If Lebron can take the 2007 Cavs to the finals, I think this team can compete for a title this year.  Their current team is better than the one in ’07, and Lebron is a smarter, more efficient player than he was in ’07.

 

Of course their team is better this year with Love instead of Wiggins.  That’s undeniable.  But is sacrificing one of the best prosects in years worth the risk?  I don’t think it is.

 

Yes, the Cavs would be better this year, and probably next year as well.  But what about two years down the road?  Three?  Five?  I’m not too sure they are better then.  Wiggins could very well turn into a superstar, and at the very least should develop into an 18/6/3 type with elite defense.

 

And like I’ve said, Minnesota has zero leverage.  Love isn’t resigning, so Minnesota is in a spot to either trade him and acquire assets, or let him walk.  If they want to be stubborn and demand players, then they will shoot themselves in the foot.  I guess they can use a potential deal with the Warriors as leverage, but that really isn’t a big deal in my opinion.  The Cavs could simply trade for someone like Paul Millsap and not have to give up one of the best trade chips in basketball which is Wiggins.  And that’s exactly what I’d do, trade Waiters/Bennett and a pick or two for Millsap.  They keep Wiggins, and get a very good player in Millsap in return.

 

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Kevin Love

– There’s no questioning Andrew Wiggins’ upside, but LeBron will be 30 this season. Does he really have time to wait two or three years for Wiggins to develop? 

Love is literally the perfect compliment for LeBron TODAY. Not only that, the dude is a flat out stud on the glass and at the offensive end. Defensively, he’s average, but he’ll at least learn where he needs to be. 

It’s a no brainer to me. With Wiggins… You compete for a title in two or three years. With Love, you compete this season AND for the next three to five years. 

 

[SpartanGloryParticipant]

Love

You draft players hoping that someday they’ll be a great player and will lead your team to championships. That’s what Wiggins could be, but Love IS right now. This is practically a no brainer. You have one of the greatest players ever right now and another top 10-15 player that wants to play with him and win. 

Wiggins could be good but why not take the sure thing and become an instant contender?

[GrandmamaParticipant]

You say become an instant contender. THEY ARE ALREADY A CONTENDER. If Lebron can take a crappy Cavs team in 07′ to the finals, he can take this team to the finals.  This team is much better than that ’07 team, and Lebron is a smarter, more efficient player.

 

Become a contender….as if they aren’t right now.  Cmon.  Oh and by the way, Vegas has Cleveland as the favorites to win the championship next year.  Right now they are at 15/4, followed by the Spurs at 9/2.  Become contenders…. They can win a championship with their current team, and there isn’t any denying that.  And with those odds, the experts would obviously agree.

 

 

[SpartanGloryParticipant]

Does it really matter what the odds are that Vegas puts on this? The odds are partly created by betting trends and expectations so you could just have a bunch of dumbasses betting on the Cavs and that would increase their odds. With this young of a team, my opinion is that they are inferior to the Bulls, Clippers, Spurs, maybe the Mavericks who will have a great year I think. Wiggins and Bennett are two big pieces on this team going forward, assuming they aren’t traded, and they just can’t be relied on to help Lebron take this team to a championship. Don’t forget, WIGGINS IS NOT LEBRON. He needs a few years to develop. Love is ready to go yesterday.

[SpartanGloryParticipant]

Does it really matter what the odds are that Vegas puts on this? The odds are partly created by betting trends and expectations so you could just have a bunch of dumbasses betting on the Cavs and that would increase their odds. With this young of a team, my opinion is that they are inferior to the Bulls, Clippers, Spurs, maybe the Mavericks who will have a great year I think. Wiggins and Bennett are two big pieces on this team going forward, assuming they aren’t traded, and they just can’t be relied on to help Lebron take this team to a championship. Don’t forget, WIGGINS IS NOT LEBRON. He needs a few years to develop. Love is ready to go yesterday.

[GrandmamaParticipant]

You say become an instant contender. THEY ARE ALREADY A CONTENDER. If Lebron can take a crappy Cavs team in 07′ to the finals, he can take this team to the finals.  This team is much better than that ’07 team, and Lebron is a smarter, more efficient player.

 

Become a contender….as if they aren’t right now.  Cmon.  Oh and by the way, Vegas has Cleveland as the favorites to win the championship next year.  Right now they are at 15/4, followed by the Spurs at 9/2.  Become contenders…. They can win a championship with their current team, and there isn’t any denying that.  And with those odds, the experts would obviously agree.

 

 

[SpartanGloryParticipant]

Love

You draft players hoping that someday they’ll be a great player and will lead your team to championships. That’s what Wiggins could be, but Love IS right now. This is practically a no brainer. You have one of the greatest players ever right now and another top 10-15 player that wants to play with him and win. 

Wiggins could be good but why not take the sure thing and become an instant contender?

[max23Participant]

 Love now.I understand waiting to see what you have and maybe trade for him later in the season,but the trade would make them better today.And like the heat showed,chemistry can take awhile…Better to have Love through training camp and 82 games before the playoffs.

[max23Participant]

 Love now.I understand waiting to see what you have and maybe trade for him later in the season,but the trade would make them better today.And like the heat showed,chemistry can take awhile…Better to have Love through training camp and 82 games before the playoffs.

[llperez]

Love. This current team can’t win it all right now, with love they could. It’s really as simple as that when you are building around a 30 year old star in Lebron.

[llperez]

Love. This current team can’t win it all right now, with love they could. It’s really as simple as that when you are building around a 30 year old star in Lebron.

[IIwIIParticipant]

With minnys low leverage, it seems to me a no brainer to wait them out. Love wants to go to Cleveland and the price will drop come October/February. Anyway, If I had to guess, Flip is probably going to try the Portland route and stick it out as is.

On a side note, Wiggins looks like he has that rare natural talent level of a possible future MVP candidate, I would hate to be the guy that traded away an MVP when he was a rookie.

[IIwIIParticipant]

With minnys low leverage, it seems to me a no brainer to wait them out. Love wants to go to Cleveland and the price will drop come October/February. Anyway, If I had to guess, Flip is probably going to try the Portland route and stick it out as is.

On a side note, Wiggins looks like he has that rare natural talent level of a possible future MVP candidate, I would hate to be the guy that traded away an MVP when he was a rookie.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

@Grandmama

The Eastern Conference was trash in 2006-2007… Even worse than it is now. The Cavs went up against two .500 teams in the first two rounds and then beat a tired Pistons team in the Eastern Conference Finals. The East was terrible last season, but it *should* be much improved this season. 

The Cavs will compete for a high seed in the East, but I don’t think this team would be the hands down favorites to come out of the East. This team has no chance against most teams in the West. Kyrie Irving is talented, but he’s played zero meaningful basketball, plus he’s not shown he can stay healthy. And for the first time in his career, the ball will be taken out of his hands. Anthony Bennett was historically bad last season. Anderson Verajao, LeBron’s favorite guy, isn’t the same guy he was when he was 24-26 years old. He can’t stay on floor. Deion Waiters, Tristan Thompson… Dellavedova… Brendan Haywood… I mean, come on now… This team *as is* is two or three years away from being a team that could literally win it all. 

IF you put Kevin Love on this team, they become the *hands down* favorites to come out of the East. I don’t think they could beat the Spurs, but I think they could match up well with most teams in the West. Stop acting like Love is old. He’ll only be 26 and just entering his prime. He’ll play at a high level for another four-five seasons and that’s a fact, unless he suffers an injury. 

This is a no brainer move. I personally would try to hang onto Wiggins since the Wolves have no leverage, BUT if it came down to giving him up for Love… I’d pull that trigger right now considering the situation. 

 

[GrandmamaParticipant]

I made zero reference to Love being old.  I’m well aware he is 25, and will be 26 to start the season.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

My point was that Kevin Love is young enough that in three to five years, he’ll either still be in his prime or literally just be coming out of it. The Cavs will have a legit shot to win a championship the next five years with Kevin Love. 

I don’t think LeBron is looking at 5 years down the line. He’ll be 35 years old and declining. He wants to win a championship now while he’s in his prime. I don’t think the #1 seed in the East and a possible Finals trip is good enough for him. With Love, they have a legit chance to win a title the next several years. 

 

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

My point was that Kevin Love is young enough that in three to five years, he’ll either still be in his prime or literally just be coming out of it. The Cavs will have a legit shot to win a championship the next five years with Kevin Love. 

I don’t think LeBron is looking at 5 years down the line. He’ll be 35 years old and declining. He wants to win a championship now while he’s in his prime. I don’t think the #1 seed in the East and a possible Finals trip is good enough for him. With Love, they have a legit chance to win a title the next several years. 

 

 

[GrandmamaParticipant]

I made zero reference to Love being old.  I’m well aware he is 25, and will be 26 to start the season.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

@Grandmama

The Eastern Conference was trash in 2006-2007… Even worse than it is now. The Cavs went up against two .500 teams in the first two rounds and then beat a tired Pistons team in the Eastern Conference Finals. The East was terrible last season, but it *should* be much improved this season. 

The Cavs will compete for a high seed in the East, but I don’t think this team would be the hands down favorites to come out of the East. This team has no chance against most teams in the West. Kyrie Irving is talented, but he’s played zero meaningful basketball, plus he’s not shown he can stay healthy. And for the first time in his career, the ball will be taken out of his hands. Anthony Bennett was historically bad last season. Anderson Verajao, LeBron’s favorite guy, isn’t the same guy he was when he was 24-26 years old. He can’t stay on floor. Deion Waiters, Tristan Thompson… Dellavedova… Brendan Haywood… I mean, come on now… This team *as is* is two or three years away from being a team that could literally win it all. 

IF you put Kevin Love on this team, they become the *hands down* favorites to come out of the East. I don’t think they could beat the Spurs, but I think they could match up well with most teams in the West. Stop acting like Love is old. He’ll only be 26 and just entering his prime. He’ll play at a high level for another four-five seasons and that’s a fact, unless he suffers an injury. 

This is a no brainer move. I personally would try to hang onto Wiggins since the Wolves have no leverage, BUT if it came down to giving him up for Love… I’d pull that trigger right now considering the situation. 

 

[Toronto16Participant]

 I’m keeping Wiggins.  Trade him for Love, and Lebron is my only perimeter defender.

[Toronto16Participant]

 I’m keeping Wiggins.  Trade him for Love, and Lebron is my only perimeter defender.

[HaleParticipant]

Andrew Wiggins. Playing with LeBron would not only improve his odds at becoming a superstar, but the rate at which he will improve as well. I know Bennett underachieved massively but he’s looking much better and can play the stretch 4 role Love would play. Obviously not nearly as well but it’s not like he’ll cram the paint either. Another thing people are failing to mention is that Irving-Waiters-LeBron-Love-Varejao is a horrific defensive lineup. LeBron’s consistency and effort wavered tremendously on defense last season and he doesn’t want to have to guard the opposing teams best player night in and night out.

Irving-Waiters-Love are minus defenders who would put a gigantic burden on LeBron to carry the defense. The goal should not be to rely on LeBron to carry you everywhere, it’ll wear him down just like it did last season. Kyrie Irving and Dion Waiters are both excellent at creating their own shot. Bennett and Wiggins can both be good off-ball players. Miller, Jones and Delly can all shoot the hell out of the ball. LeBron won’t have to completely carry them offensively, and with Wiggins he won’t defensively either. Varejao is good on that end but not a paint protector and is never healthy. Now Kevin Love + Gorgui Dieng…much harder to decide.

[HaleParticipant]

Andrew Wiggins. Playing with LeBron would not only improve his odds at becoming a superstar, but the rate at which he will improve as well. I know Bennett underachieved massively but he’s looking much better and can play the stretch 4 role Love would play. Obviously not nearly as well but it’s not like he’ll cram the paint either. Another thing people are failing to mention is that Irving-Waiters-LeBron-Love-Varejao is a horrific defensive lineup. LeBron’s consistency and effort wavered tremendously on defense last season and he doesn’t want to have to guard the opposing teams best player night in and night out.

Irving-Waiters-Love are minus defenders who would put a gigantic burden on LeBron to carry the defense. The goal should not be to rely on LeBron to carry you everywhere, it’ll wear him down just like it did last season. Kyrie Irving and Dion Waiters are both excellent at creating their own shot. Bennett and Wiggins can both be good off-ball players. Miller, Jones and Delly can all shoot the hell out of the ball. LeBron won’t have to completely carry them offensively, and with Wiggins he won’t defensively either. Varejao is good on that end but not a paint protector and is never healthy. Now Kevin Love + Gorgui Dieng…much harder to decide.

[rileymcshea3Participant]

I don’t get how playing with LeBron would raise his potential. If he stays in Cleveland he is going to be the third option behind LeBron and Kyrie for a while. Even Waiters will probably get more shots up then Wiggins will. I think if he gets traded to Minny, he would be their go to guy right now. Rubio would get Wiggins easy dunks all day. A lineup of

PG-Rubio

SG-Lavine

SF-Wiggins

PF-Pekovic

C-Dieng

Has great potential in the long run. That’s not even including guys like Bennett, Thompson, or Waiters who could get traded with  Wiggins

[rileymcshea3Participant]

I don’t get how playing with LeBron would raise his potential. If he stays in Cleveland he is going to be the third option behind LeBron and Kyrie for a while. Even Waiters will probably get more shots up then Wiggins will. I think if he gets traded to Minny, he would be their go to guy right now. Rubio would get Wiggins easy dunks all day. A lineup of

PG-Rubio

SG-Lavine

SF-Wiggins

PF-Pekovic

C-Dieng

Has great potential in the long run. That’s not even including guys like Bennett, Thompson, or Waiters who could get traded with  Wiggins

[HaleParticipant]

It doesn’t raise his potential, it increases his odds of reaching it. Let’s be honest, the Minnesota front office has been terrible at developing talent for a long time now. Wiggins would be given a huge burden of being "the man" here in Minnesota. In Cleveland he gets to practice against the best player in the world every day. He gets to see his training regimen and how hard he works to be that good. I think that will rub off on Wiggins. It’ll show him how hard he has to work to be the superstar he expects to be.

 When LeBron came out he his handle and jumper needed work too. Wiggins would benefit so much from being around LeBron every day. Plus he will be able to play to his strengths while he improves on his weaknesses. He’s pretty good at cutting and can be very good defensively right away. He’s not a great spot up shooter, but he’s not bad either. In Minnesota he’d be asked to create his own offense much more and while I think he’s better at it then given credit for, he’s got a long ways to go.

[HaleParticipant]

It doesn’t raise his potential, it increases his odds of reaching it. Let’s be honest, the Minnesota front office has been terrible at developing talent for a long time now. Wiggins would be given a huge burden of being "the man" here in Minnesota. In Cleveland he gets to practice against the best player in the world every day. He gets to see his training regimen and how hard he works to be that good. I think that will rub off on Wiggins. It’ll show him how hard he has to work to be the superstar he expects to be.

 When LeBron came out he his handle and jumper needed work too. Wiggins would benefit so much from being around LeBron every day. Plus he will be able to play to his strengths while he improves on his weaknesses. He’s pretty good at cutting and can be very good defensively right away. He’s not a great spot up shooter, but he’s not bad either. In Minnesota he’d be asked to create his own offense much more and while I think he’s better at it then given credit for, he’s got a long ways to go.

[A Lil EnglishParticipant]

Kevin Love. Experience wins championships. You can always try and get defenders & hustlers to complete your championship team afterwards. Lebron/Irving/Love would attract these guys easily if rings are on the horizon and they would still probably have trade assets like Waiters.

[A Lil EnglishParticipant]

Kevin Love. Experience wins championships. You can always try and get defenders & hustlers to complete your championship team afterwards. Lebron/Irving/Love would attract these guys easily if rings are on the horizon and they would still probably have trade assets like Waiters.

[MadDogParticipant]

Wiggins no dispute. One of the major reasons that Lebron left Cleveland the first time was because he felt like he was doing everything for that team. Without Wiggins, Lebron’s in the same position, zero help on D, pretty much everyone else being a liability. This team’s already full of shooters already as well, so Love would make this worse whereas with Wiggins his occassional lack of assertiveness is no problem.

[MadDogParticipant]

Wiggins no dispute. One of the major reasons that Lebron left Cleveland the first time was because he felt like he was doing everything for that team. Without Wiggins, Lebron’s in the same position, zero help on D, pretty much everyone else being a liability. This team’s already full of shooters already as well, so Love would make this worse whereas with Wiggins his occassional lack of assertiveness is no problem.

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

You think Love. 25 efficient points per game and 12 rebounds is going to be a liability? He isn’t a good defender. He is basically average to slightly bad. But he is a monster scorer. A first option on his team who scored in volume and with efficiency. And then he is a top five rebounder in the league and possibly the second best after Dwight. He is also a great outlet passer. Imagine him grabbing defensive rebounds and isntead of outletting to Cory Brewer, he is outletting to Lebron with a full head of steam and one defender to beat (and possibly it is only the PG who made it back in time to stop the outlet). 

We don’t know that Wiggins will be a franchise player. Even the first pick ends up being a bust about 20% of the time. Kwame, Olowikindo, and Bargnani all went first. So did mediocer guys like Glen Robinson and Joe Smith. Wiggins has upside. The worst part of Wiggins though is that he is probably a SF and Lebron probably wants to continue to play SF. If you can get Lebron to commit to playing PF for the entire season, then maybe I change my view. But I doubt that is happening. 

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

You think Love. 25 efficient points per game and 12 rebounds is going to be a liability? He isn’t a good defender. He is basically average to slightly bad. But he is a monster scorer. A first option on his team who scored in volume and with efficiency. And then he is a top five rebounder in the league and possibly the second best after Dwight. He is also a great outlet passer. Imagine him grabbing defensive rebounds and isntead of outletting to Cory Brewer, he is outletting to Lebron with a full head of steam and one defender to beat (and possibly it is only the PG who made it back in time to stop the outlet). 

We don’t know that Wiggins will be a franchise player. Even the first pick ends up being a bust about 20% of the time. Kwame, Olowikindo, and Bargnani all went first. So did mediocer guys like Glen Robinson and Joe Smith. Wiggins has upside. The worst part of Wiggins though is that he is probably a SF and Lebron probably wants to continue to play SF. If you can get Lebron to commit to playing PF for the entire season, then maybe I change my view. But I doubt that is happening. 

[MadDogParticipant]

I don’t think Love’s a liability in general, offensively as you say he’s a beast, but he’s a poor defender especially rim protection wise (something the Cavs roster is pretty lacking in already) and he’s a volume shooter, I don’t know if there would be enough shots to keep Love, Irving and Lebron happy, with Wiggins this is less of an issue. Although I do agree that if Love made some consellations that team could be flat out insane, I just wouldn’t trade Wiggins for that opportunity, especially when MIN has no real leverage.

 

[MadDogParticipant]

I don’t think Love’s a liability in general, offensively as you say he’s a beast, but he’s a poor defender especially rim protection wise (something the Cavs roster is pretty lacking in already) and he’s a volume shooter, I don’t know if there would be enough shots to keep Love, Irving and Lebron happy, with Wiggins this is less of an issue. Although I do agree that if Love made some consellations that team could be flat out insane, I just wouldn’t trade Wiggins for that opportunity, especially when MIN has no real leverage.

 

[Author]

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