[Bmore_DCParticipant]

Let me start off saying that ive always been a Spurs fan (met David Robinson when he was at Navy), but my local team is the Wizards…

Now, our relationship has been rocky to say the least…it just seems like every move they make back-fires…The thing that frustrates me the most, is lately they claim to be re-building…all while going after bad contracts and screwing up their drafts…

Obviously drafting John Wall was a no-brainer, but with him being out for the first 8 weeks, and Nene hurt as well, does this team have any hope? They will be putting a lot of pressure on Beal right away and that scares me for his development…

When Leodis bought the team from Abe, we were promised change and a new direction! All we’ve gotten is mediocrity AT BEST. 

If they bomb again this year, is that it for Whittman and Ernie? 

 

[NCarmean18Participant]

Washington will be better than they have in the previous years.  Will they compete for a playoff spot?  Probably not.  Could they with John Wall and Nene healthy throughout the entire season?  I think that they could.  

I agree that Nene and Emeka Okafor’s contracts are pretty bad, but they are still some decent players.  Okafor can still rebound and block shots, and Nene is a very fluid big who only about 2 years ago was considered a Top 5 center before injuries set him back.  

I think it will be 1 more year in the lottery for the Washington Wizards, and then they will make a run at the playoffs.  They have solid young talent, and they have mixed it in pretty well with veteran players.  Their method is similar to that of the Boston Celtics.  However, Boston has veterans who are leaders of the ball club and Washington’s veterans are more of just quiet, solid players.  

I think the Wizards will get better and better over time, and John Wall and Brad Beal will blossom into fantastic NBA players.  I still really like their young bigs in Trevor Booker and Kevin Seraphin as well.  

[SiggyParticipant]

 They did try to rebuild, but they were rebuilding with young, dumb players and they weren’t doing anything but embarassing themselves. So they went another direction and got some vets. Okafor’s a bad contract given his play, but he can help defensively in the meantime and his contract might have value this offseason since it’ll be expiring. The same goes for Ariza.

How did they screw up their drafts? By drafting Vesely over…who? If you say names like Klay Thompson or Kawhi Leonard then you’re working from hindsight.  Both those guys would’ve been major reaches at the Wizards’ slot.

Even with Wall out, I don’t expect any extra pressure to be on Beal.  He was never the type of player to carry an offensive load.  Regardless of the personnel around him, he’s just gonna get his within the flow of the offense.

Whittman’s just a placeholder. He’s not long for the job.  He’s just there to get them from point A to point B, not point B to point C.

That team needed a stabilizing force.  They got that with those vet bigs and Beal, who plays more like a vet.  Now they just have to see if the light will turn on for Wall.  The pressure will be back on him when he gets back.  If he’s still an out of control, TO prone player who doesn’t run a halfcourt offense well, then he doesn’t have his knucklehead teammates to take the blame.  This season there should be more growing pains, but if they don’t compete for a playoff spot next year then heads will probably roll in the front office.

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

 Actually i will say they shouldve taken Leonard over Vesely…ive always been a huge fan of Leonard and for the most part he was considered a top-5 pick leading up to the draft…I remember wondering why he was falling in the draft too…

And i know they were rebuilding with dumb players but didnt the current GM pick all those players? I mean, why does he get credit for "fixing" his dumb mistakes by taking on mediocre players with bad/average contracts? Really doesnt make sense but i see the logic i guess…

If they wouldve torn this thing down completely from the start, they wouldnt be looking at ANOTHER lottery visit…

[LipstickParticipant]

lol agreed. I remember Bill Simmons ripped the owner for priding himself on getting rid of Blatche and McGee when in reality he brought them there in the first place.

[SiggyParticipant]

 Leading up to the draft, Leonard was seen by most draft pundits as a mid first rounder due to his tweener projection and underdeveloped perimeter skill.  He didn’t flash his perimeter skill, in particular his ability to hit outside jumpshots, until he actually joined the Spurs.

No GM picks players and expects them to stay dumb. The Wiz had like this crazy dumbass synergy going on with that team, where dumb play lead to even more dumb play.  They ended up being mistakes, but at least the GM tried to fix those mistakes.  I think it’s safe to assume a GM expects his players to eventually grow up.  They didn’t, so they had to cut their losses.  When you’re trying to get rid of knuckleheads and bad contracts you can’t expect the return to be gold.  What were they supposed to get, a star in return?? High draft picks coming back? No and no.  Nene could be damaged goods or he could return to previous form. Okafor and Ariza’s contracts aren’t that terrible considering the length and the fact they can be used as trade bait this coming summer.  As a result, they flipped a malcontent, bad contract who hardly played for them for 2 rotation players who will.  In the meantime, they can provide leadership and teach the young kids how to play defense and be professionals.  See, that’s what teams like the previous yrs Wiz and Kings teams lacked. They had all that young talent, but didn’t have the vets around to show them the ropes and teach them how to be pros.

And I disagree with your last comment as well.  If they would’ve torn it down they still would’ve been in the lotto and it would’ve made their rebuilding process even longer.  They have to show at least some progress especially while Wall is still on his rookie contract.  I say they miss the playoffs, draft a SF (it’s a solid draft for SFs).  Use one or both of expirings to try to get another good player or build up their bench and also get a real coach. Then roll out a lineup of Wall, Beal, rookie/or player traded for, Seraphin, Nene for 13-14.  If they miss the playoffs that year too, then Wall isn’t the franchise changer he was supposed to be.

[omphalosParticipant]

 I think they will compete for a playoff spot in the East if they can keep the roster healthy; they are extremely deep at every position except PG, have a nice mix of veterans and young players, and the beauty is that while their vets age their youngsters will improve to pick up the slack.

Siggy is right they needed a stabilising force and while those contracts are "bad", having cap space for no reason is equally bad; nobody was going to sign with Washington until they saw some signs of improvement from the franchise, and that’s what they’ll get this season if they can just be healthy.

It will also give Wall an opportunity to play with veteran team mates and see what he can do when handed to keys to a team which isn’t full of boneheads.

People are really down on the Wizards, but they are my dark horse candidate for the 8th seed in the East.

[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

 JC is a big time scorer. If him and Beal can keep them in games before wall gets back they could be a 7th or 8th seed

[JordoParticipant]

* Big time chucker who breaks the offense and throws up heat checks with 20 sec. still on the shot clock*

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

 @Siggy…

how can you not blame a GM for drafting dumb players? Theres a thing called an interview, there is also tons of tape and tons of scouting that can tell you a players bball IQ…its not hard to see…You are talking about the same guy who gave Andray Blatche 30 million dollars! If you consider having to amnesty your bad mistake, then yes, Grunfeld is a success! 

Nene could be damaged goods? Well thats promising…especially for his stupid contract!

They shouldve torn this thing down right after the Gilbert thing in 2009, you know, the same year Ernie traded their 1sr rd pick for Mike Miller and Randy Foye…(they couldve had Steph Curry, Demar Derozan, Jennings, etc.)…so dont tell me getting one of those guys would delay the rebuilding process…

The year they took McGee, they couldve taken Ryan Anderson, Serge Ibaka, or Batum…

The year they took Young, they couldve taken Wilson Chandler AND/or Marc Gasol…

While i understand its very difficult to predict how these guys will perform in the NBA, Curry, Ibaka, Chandler, and Gasol would be a pretty good team if you know how to draft and/or scout…thats why teams like the Spurs, Thunder, Celtics, etc. are good and the Wizards are still stuck in the mud…

 

[SiggyParticipant]

 GMs draft for talent, but like I said, they expect some level of maturation throughout the young players’ early years.  The Wiz didn’t mature.  It’s like they fed off eachother’s stupidity.  With a low bball IQ fool like Arenas as the star of the team, that didn’t help either.

Nene COULD be damaged goods or he could not.  If not, then he’s a top 10 center in the league.  Paying that much for a Top C in the league is par for the course. 

The Gilbert/Critt incident happened AFTER they traded their pick. Coming into that season, they still had: Arenas, Butler, Jamison, Haywood with Young, Blatche, McGee off the bench.  Mind you, the young guys were effective off the bench.  They weren’t completely exposed as bumbling idiots until they were thrust into the spotlight and forced to perform as starters. Furthermore, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that all 3 of those guys look better in their new situations. Add a back up point which they needed in Foye and a swingman, all-around smart player and shooter like Miller to the mix and that looked like a formidable 9 man rotation. Unfortunately, the Gil/Critt incident happened, injuries happened and the rest is history.

If you don’t think they tried to tear it down after the Gil incident, then I don’t know what to tell you.  After that happened, in the same season, they got rid of: Jamison, Butler, Haywood, Stevenson and they ended up with the #1 pick in the subsequent draft (followed by picks #6 and #3). They tried to tear it down, but the young players were too incredibly incompetent and embarassing to stay the course.  They got a glimpse of what the team might look like with their young core going forward and they didn’t like what they saw.  The #1 pick deserved to be surrounded by better players, so that’s what they did.

The rest of your post is just you using hindsight to say which players they shouldve taken and what else they should’ve done, which is typical for fans of teams who miss on their picks.  "Player A was taken after player B, who didn’t pan out. They should’ve taken player B." All draft picks are crapshoots, any picks after the lotto are even bigger crapshoots. Both McGee and Young were mid first round picks. Blatche was a 2nd rounder.

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

You failed to answer why he gave Blatche 30 million?

You also said they didnt mess up their drafts, even though i just gave you 3 years in a row of failed drafts…

Yes they did "tear it down" after the Gil situation, but you dont just tear it down for 2 years and then stop the process! It took OKC 4-5 years to finally re-build…

If you think Ernie is a good GM then I have to question your knowledge of the NBA…im not sure if that  is your point or not?

[SiggyParticipant]

 At one time Blatche was a promising player. They gave him the extension after the ’09-’10 season, after the Gil incident in which Blatche finally became a starter, albeit on a bad team. Are you really a Wiz fan? Because if you were, you would rember that Blatche went on a tear to close the season, finishing up in the last 3 months averaging 21/9, 21/7 and 22/9.  Locking up a 24 y/o with the potential to put up those type of numbers for a little more than the MLE plus incentives is a good contract, PROVIDED that the player puts in the work to maintain his level of play. Blatche subsequently comes into camp out of shape and regressess for 2 year in a row and he falls out of favor with the organization.  That’s not on the GM, that’s on Blatche.

I never said they didn’t mess up their drafts. What picks did they miss on? Mid first rounders who just so happen to look better in their new situations? Ok.

Oh, so they didn’t tear it down and now that I refreshed your memory, they did?  Not every team can follow the OKC model because that would require hitting on all your picks and drafting a superstar (or 2).  They didn’t draft a superstar, they drafted John Wall who hasn’t lived up to expectations as far as being a franchise changer. ’11 was a weak draft that didn’t have anybody with superstar talent at or beyond the Wizards slot so they went with a project with tools and upside.  Again, you’re just using hindsight to justify your assertion that they missed their pick.  If you wanted the Wiz to stay the course and go with a "4-5 year plan" then what the hell are you complaining for?? If they followed that plan they’d still be sucking hard and looking at another lotto year.  Before, you said that if they tore it down, and built it back up correctly they WOULDN’T be looking at another lotto year. Now you’re talking about a 4-5 year plan???  Which is it? Get your arguments straight, because otherwise you just sound like someone complaining when you don’t even understand what you’re complaining about.

Quote wherever I said in any of my posts that Ernie was a good GM. I’m just explaining what happened.  The Gil incident and injury put that entire franchise in a huge bind.  There’s more than 1 way that a franchise can get itself out of the mess that they’re in.  The OKC model is a good model, but it requires a lot of luck.  A team can either turn out to be another OKC or another Sacramento. Look at a team like the T’Wolves. For years they stockpiled young assets and picks.  The jury’s still out on them because of injury issues, but they changed their course, traded for and signed veterans and now they’re finally projected to at least compete for a playoff spot.

Maybe you should think before you complain next time. Your straw men are burning all around you.

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

 Yea im really not a Wizards fan, you got me there…I have no idea what has happened here…

And if you actually read what i said, you would understand…they "tore" it down but they didnt tear it down nearly enough or early enough…Everyone knew Blatche wasnt a hard worker and he has NEVER showed up in shape, so you throw him 30 million? 

Im not saying your wrong, im just saying they need a new GM, i really dont understand what your trying to dispute…

What drafts did they mess up? well i gave you 3 in a row, plus a bad signing…your giving somebody a pass for fixing their own dumb mistakes, you cant justify it with your points, so your only way to "prove me wrong" is to tell me im not really a fan and thats just bogus…

I told you im a Spurs fan (maybe you didnt read that), i just follow the Wiz because they are my local team, aside from a couple playoff berths, this franchise has been a joke and while Wall and Beal look promising, it doesnt look like the goof-ball label will be coming off anytime soon…

Lemme think before i complain? what are you talking about bro? I gave you numerous drafts, signings, and trades that have put this team in the bind they are still in, and have been in for years! And the best you can do is tell me Blatche looked promising at the time?!?!?! I even remember D-Wade making fun of that signing lmao

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