[valentine]

 who would you take now, and who has the higher future ceiling?

[True_JafiParticipant]

They both rebound at the same clip but Vucevic is a much more polished offensive player, were as Drummond is still raw. Drummond only scores off rebounds or drop off passes. Plus Vucevic is a below the rim player (did posterize Gasol last night) that is only getting better.

[True_JafiParticipant]

They both rebound at the same clip but Vucevic is a much more polished offensive player, were as Drummond is still raw. Drummond only scores off rebounds or drop off passes. Plus Vucevic is a below the rim player (did posterize Gasol last night) that is only getting better.

[GBeeParticipant]

 i’ll take vucevic. you can actually give him the the ball and he can do something with it, from different spots on the floor too unlike drummond who’s just an uber athletic garbageman. you can post nik up on either block. he can turn over either shoulder, use either hand. he can face up from mid. you can roll or pop with him. whereas with drummond he has no moves and he looks like he lacks the coordination, feel for the game and touch to ever be a player you dump the ball to and run action off of him.  you don’t have to sit nik down the stretch of games either because he makes his FTs. neither are good defensively so you’d have to flank either with someone who can make up for their defensive ineptitude, but i’ll take the C who’s at least good one end of the floor.

[GBeeParticipant]

 i’ll take vucevic. you can actually give him the the ball and he can do something with it, from different spots on the floor too unlike drummond who’s just an uber athletic garbageman. you can post nik up on either block. he can turn over either shoulder, use either hand. he can face up from mid. you can roll or pop with him. whereas with drummond he has no moves and he looks like he lacks the coordination, feel for the game and touch to ever be a player you dump the ball to and run action off of him.  you don’t have to sit nik down the stretch of games either because he makes his FTs. neither are good defensively so you’d have to flank either with someone who can make up for their defensive ineptitude, but i’ll take the C who’s at least good one end of the floor.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

Vucevic is definitely better now and has a better feel for the game, but Drummond is a potentially elite roll man who may be even more dominant as a rebounder in his prime than Vucevic.  And I think Drummond has more room to improve as a defender, although Vucevic is the better defender at the moment.  Drummond is three years younger than Vucevic, too, so in three years I could see Drummond being much improved.

Drummond will be more expensive to extend than Vucevic was, though, due to his Vucevic being somewhat underrated league-wide and Drummond hitting FA later, closer to the 2016 cap rise.  But I do think Drummond is more valuable, especially since he doesn’t really need plays run for him to make an impact.  You can run your offense through other players and Drummond can still produce off of cuts and offensive rebounds.  He struggled terribly early in the season, but that is because he was forced to create for himself.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

Vucevic is definitely better now and has a better feel for the game, but Drummond is a potentially elite roll man who may be even more dominant as a rebounder in his prime than Vucevic.  And I think Drummond has more room to improve as a defender, although Vucevic is the better defender at the moment.  Drummond is three years younger than Vucevic, too, so in three years I could see Drummond being much improved.

Drummond will be more expensive to extend than Vucevic was, though, due to his Vucevic being somewhat underrated league-wide and Drummond hitting FA later, closer to the 2016 cap rise.  But I do think Drummond is more valuable, especially since he doesn’t really need plays run for him to make an impact.  You can run your offense through other players and Drummond can still produce off of cuts and offensive rebounds.  He struggled terribly early in the season, but that is because he was forced to create for himself.

[OhCanada-Participant]

I don’t think that’s really a good argument. Theres a reason why they don’t run plays for Drummond. Its because he is not a good option to run plays through. I think the fact that you can run the offense through Vucevic is a great skill. And don’t kid yourself Vucevic would still be very productive as a fifth option with garbage man duties.

[OhCanada-Participant]

I don’t think that’s really a good argument. Theres a reason why they don’t run plays for Drummond. Its because he is not a good option to run plays through. I think the fact that you can run the offense through Vucevic is a great skill. And don’t kid yourself Vucevic would still be very productive as a fifth option with garbage man duties.

[prophetmeirParticipant]

Drummond still learning the game but will always be a double double machine. He  will continue to improve once they continue to improve the spacing.

[prophetmeirParticipant]

Drummond still learning the game but will always be a double double machine. He  will continue to improve once they continue to improve the spacing.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Drummond is overrated but his upside is out of this world. Valanciunas just torched him for 31-points which is likely a career high and kept Drummond under 50% shooting.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Drummond is overrated but his upside is out of this world. Valanciunas just torched him for 31-points which is likely a career high and kept Drummond under 50% shooting.

[i’m jus so offendedParticipant]

Most of Jonas’s points were on someone other than Drummond, though he did kind of abuse him when they were matched up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbynYOjsi4o

[i’m jus so offendedParticipant]

Most of Jonas’s points were on someone other than Drummond, though he did kind of abuse him when they were matched up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbynYOjsi4o

[Sharp ShooterParticipant]

 Valenciunas drop 30 but what about the previous matchups. In the previous 2 Drummond or Monroe torced him in those matchups.

[Sharp ShooterParticipant]

 Valenciunas drop 30 but what about the previous matchups. In the previous 2 Drummond or Monroe torced him in those matchups.

[i’m jus so offendedParticipant]

 Vucevic is no where near the defensive presence Drummond is. Dre is also 3 years younger. I think Nikola has pretty much reached his ceiling while Drummond can be an All-Star as soon as next year.

[i’m jus so offendedParticipant]

 Vucevic is no where near the defensive presence Drummond is. Dre is also 3 years younger. I think Nikola has pretty much reached his ceiling while Drummond can be an All-Star as soon as next year.

[GBeeParticipant]

 are you insinuating that drummond is good defensively? because he’s not. neither are good defensively. for vucevic to be "no where near" drummond in terms of defensive presence he’d have to be beyond pitiful defensively, which he is not.

[GBeeParticipant]

 are you insinuating that drummond is good defensively? because he’s not. neither are good defensively. for vucevic to be "no where near" drummond in terms of defensive presence he’d have to be beyond pitiful defensively, which he is not.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

Vucevic is probably better than Drummond right now.  Drummond may have more room for improvement, though, and hardly any 20 year old bigs are really any good defensively.  Drummond’s instincts on defense are not very good, but he will get better with his physical tools.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

Vucevic is probably better than Drummond right now.  Drummond may have more room for improvement, though, and hardly any 20 year old bigs are really any good defensively.  Drummond’s instincts on defense are not very good, but he will get better with his physical tools.

[GBeeParticipant]

 he will only get better if he gets smarter and his other intangibles improve. being an anchor is less about physical tools than it is about quarterbacking the defense, doing work early, making the proper rotations, not breaking defensive integrity and staying solid. that doesn’t describe drummond at all. he’s not vocal. he’s not physical. he doesn’t anticipate and he’s fundamentally unsound. guys like bogut, gasol and TD are still great defensive anchors despite not being the most athletic because they have the former qualities. drummond has a long way to go on that end.

[GBeeParticipant]

 he will only get better if he gets smarter and his other intangibles improve. being an anchor is less about physical tools than it is about quarterbacking the defense, doing work early, making the proper rotations, not breaking defensive integrity and staying solid. that doesn’t describe drummond at all. he’s not vocal. he’s not physical. he doesn’t anticipate and he’s fundamentally unsound. guys like bogut, gasol and TD are still great defensive anchors despite not being the most athletic because they have the former qualities. drummond has a long way to go on that end.

[i’m jus so offendedParticipant]

Presence can be defined as “someone or something that is seen or noticed in a particular place, space, etc.”. Andre Drummond’s presence defensively is waaaaay more intrusive and intimidating. He has just the shot blocking reputation that gives opponents more fear that Vucevic, I guarantee you that. I saw Vucevic in person in Portland Saturday, when he had his career high 34pts and I’d still take Drummond 10/10 times.

[i’m jus so offendedParticipant]

Presence can be defined as “someone or something that is seen or noticed in a particular place, space, etc.”. Andre Drummond’s presence defensively is waaaaay more intrusive and intimidating. He has just the shot blocking reputation that gives opponents more fear that Vucevic, I guarantee you that. I saw Vucevic in person in Portland Saturday, when he had his career high 34pts and I’d still take Drummond 10/10 times.

[GBeeParticipant]

 good defenders are intimidating. drummond’s not a good defender.

even ignoring his defensive impact, his actual presence isn’t intimidating either. he’s one of the least physical ~275-280 lb players i’ve ever seen.

 also, shot-blocking doesn’t automatically = good defense or instilling fear, otherwise guys like javale mcgee (when healthy) would be considered elite defensive anchors. i find that players who wall off, contest shots without leaving the floor and maintaining their position are better anchors (again, guys like m.gasol, TD, bogut) than jumping jacks like drummond who are susceptible to being faked out of position, relying on athleticism to recover instead of doing their work early.

if i were an opposing coach i’d involve drummond in as many plays as possible. setting ball screens with his man or attacking him as the primary help defender forcing him to make decisions. the kid is not a thinker on the floor.

[GBeeParticipant]

 good defenders are intimidating. drummond’s not a good defender.

even ignoring his defensive impact, his actual presence isn’t intimidating either. he’s one of the least physical ~275-280 lb players i’ve ever seen.

 also, shot-blocking doesn’t automatically = good defense or instilling fear, otherwise guys like javale mcgee (when healthy) would be considered elite defensive anchors. i find that players who wall off, contest shots without leaving the floor and maintaining their position are better anchors (again, guys like m.gasol, TD, bogut) than jumping jacks like drummond who are susceptible to being faked out of position, relying on athleticism to recover instead of doing their work early.

if i were an opposing coach i’d involve drummond in as many plays as possible. setting ball screens with his man or attacking him as the primary help defender forcing him to make decisions. the kid is not a thinker on the floor.

[TRC1991Participant]

Vucevic. It’s a rarity to have a skillset like that at 7’0” 260. He’s extremely talented, and is everything that the Nets wish Brook Lopez would be 

[TRC1991Participant]

Vucevic. It’s a rarity to have a skillset like that at 7’0” 260. He’s extremely talented, and is everything that the Nets wish Brook Lopez would be 

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

 I can’t decide, both are very good.  It might depend on the other players on the team, for which fits best.  Drummond and Vucevic on the same team, they would be good.

One guy you foul and he misses free throws, so Drummond has that negative.  Vucevic can score more, Drummond can shot block and rebound more.

That PER stat, Vucevic is just ahead.  If it was for a fantasy team, Vucevic is the pick if the league has free throw percentage.  Right now, I pick Drummond.  He can have 20-rebound games and shoot 60% from the floor, although in the NBA both will be called "max contract players" as there are few quality bigs around.

 

 

 

 

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

 I can’t decide, both are very good.  It might depend on the other players on the team, for which fits best.  Drummond and Vucevic on the same team, they would be good.

One guy you foul and he misses free throws, so Drummond has that negative.  Vucevic can score more, Drummond can shot block and rebound more.

That PER stat, Vucevic is just ahead.  If it was for a fantasy team, Vucevic is the pick if the league has free throw percentage.  Right now, I pick Drummond.  He can have 20-rebound games and shoot 60% from the floor, although in the NBA both will be called "max contract players" as there are few quality bigs around.

 

 

 

 

[jaycee24Participant]

 Drummond not even close. When you have a 21 year old kid who can do things that about 2-4 other NBA players can match up with you have a special talent. Drummond in my opinion has a higher ceiling than Dwight just because of his demeanor and tenacity. I’m not going to act like I know much about Vucevic but I know he’s solid MIGHT have multiple All-Star seasons but Drummond is a franchise staple and other than Davis there is not another big in the league I’d start my team with.

[OhCanada-Participant]

There’s no way you truly believe that. Theres too many good bigs right now tearing it up Cousins has averaged close to 30-points, 15-rebounds, 6-assists, 3-blocks, and 3-steals in the last 4 games. Vucevic is averaging 30-points, 3-assists and 13-rebounds his last three games. Guys like Gasol, Howard, Noah, and even Favors and Jordan are in a different class as well. 

I’d put Drummond in a class with guys like Plumlee, and Whiteside as second tier guys who still have a long way to go yet can still be extremely effective if in the right system and have limitless potential.

Then you have solid 2nd tier starters like Valanciunas, Gortat, and Horford who may not have as high of an upside but also have more complete games.

Vucevic and Drummond are completely different players and when Drummond is on his "A" game you can argue that guy is more effective then Vucevic. But Vucevic is always on his "A" game and deserves to be acknowledged as a first class center. Drummond does not deserve that recognition yet.

 

 

 

Drummond’s last game he scored 2-points and had 2-rebounds in 20 minutes. 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

There’s no way you truly believe that. Theres too many good bigs right now tearing it up Cousins has averaged close to 30-points, 15-rebounds, 6-assists, 3-blocks, and 3-steals in the last 4 games. Vucevic is averaging 30-points, 3-assists and 13-rebounds his last three games. Guys like Gasol, Howard, Noah, and even Favors and Jordan are in a different class as well. 

I’d put Drummond in a class with guys like Plumlee, and Whiteside as second tier guys who still have a long way to go yet can still be extremely effective if in the right system and have limitless potential.

Then you have solid 2nd tier starters like Valanciunas, Gortat, and Horford who may not have as high of an upside but also have more complete games.

Vucevic and Drummond are completely different players and when Drummond is on his "A" game you can argue that guy is more effective then Vucevic. But Vucevic is always on his "A" game and deserves to be acknowledged as a first class center. Drummond does not deserve that recognition yet.

 

 

 

Drummond’s last game he scored 2-points and had 2-rebounds in 20 minutes. 

 

[jaycee24Participant]

 Drummond not even close. When you have a 21 year old kid who can do things that about 2-4 other NBA players can match up with you have a special talent. Drummond in my opinion has a higher ceiling than Dwight just because of his demeanor and tenacity. I’m not going to act like I know much about Vucevic but I know he’s solid MIGHT have multiple All-Star seasons but Drummond is a franchise staple and other than Davis there is not another big in the league I’d start my team with.

[HitsterParticipant]

 At the moment I can make a case that Vucevic is a better player but I believe that Drummond has more upside long term. Both guys are still young 24 and 21 years old respectively and in their 4th and 3rd NBA seasons so they should both have considerable upside to come.

Drummond will be in a very strong negoiating position this summer  so will likely get a near max deal or better. Vucevic’s extension last summer now looks a good piece of business by Orlando and I’m sure that Philly still rue the day they were part of the D12/Iggy/Bynum trade.

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 At the moment I can make a case that Vucevic is a better player but I believe that Drummond has more upside long term. Both guys are still young 24 and 21 years old respectively and in their 4th and 3rd NBA seasons so they should both have considerable upside to come.

Drummond will be in a very strong negoiating position this summer  so will likely get a near max deal or better. Vucevic’s extension last summer now looks a good piece of business by Orlando and I’m sure that Philly still rue the day they were part of the D12/Iggy/Bynum trade.

 

[Author]

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