[baller77Participant]

 fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-hidden-value-of-the-nba-steal/

[Land of GrantParticipant]

Read this the other day, it’s fascinating. Seems like we gotta get away from relentless praising of passing and hand out some props to the defensive stat-sheet-stuffers.

It would be cool to see how the value of stingy individual defense that doesn’t force a steal compares, so we can get some glory to the guys who don’t go chasing stats. 

Someday there will be a stat (I hope) that quantifies defensive performance in a way that isn’t reliant on blocks and steals, and defense will become sexy. 

 

 

 

 

[Land of GrantParticipant]

Read this the other day, it’s fascinating. Seems like we gotta get away from relentless praising of passing and hand out some props to the defensive stat-sheet-stuffers.

It would be cool to see how the value of stingy individual defense that doesn’t force a steal compares, so we can get some glory to the guys who don’t go chasing stats. 

Someday there will be a stat (I hope) that quantifies defensive performance in a way that isn’t reliant on blocks and steals, and defense will become sexy. 

 

 

 

 

[baller77Participant]

With all the progress made with advanced stats and data analysis, NBA teams will begin having much different philosophies when it comes to constructing teams, similar to how baseball teams have began to shift their thinking and rely more on sabermetrics  and other advanced data. 

Traditional stats are great. But I don’t think they always explain why teams win and lose. 

 

 

[baller77Participant]

With all the progress made with advanced stats and data analysis, NBA teams will begin having much different philosophies when it comes to constructing teams, similar to how baseball teams have began to shift their thinking and rely more on sabermetrics  and other advanced data. 

Traditional stats are great. But I don’t think they always explain why teams win and lose. 

 

 

[theprophetParticipant]

i have been saying this for years and also have ocd sooooooooooooooooo bad that i tweaked fantasy basketball values to fit more accurately the true rankings of players per season in certain custom leagues every fantasy basketball season. of course there are a few stat categories missing in most formats, so fantasy leagues can’t tell the entire story at all, but it’s a strange way of getting a good idea of who should be say the mvp or something. (same with fantasy football) defensive stats are a big reason why i don’t swear by “per”

[theprophetParticipant]

i have been saying this for years and also have ocd sooooooooooooooooo bad that i tweaked fantasy basketball values to fit more accurately the true rankings of players per season in certain custom leagues every fantasy basketball season. of course there are a few stat categories missing in most formats, so fantasy leagues can’t tell the entire story at all, but it’s a strange way of getting a good idea of who should be say the mvp or something. (same with fantasy football) defensive stats are a big reason why i don’t swear by “per”

[King CaluchaParticipant]

I have no intention whatsoever in underrating this guy’s analysis, but there are some things we all need to understand before drawing conclusions:

1. Statistical analysis can always ALWAYS get you the conclussions that you want to reach. If I want to make a stat out of nothing with the intention of making the Bucks the best team in the league, I’ll probably find it. However, correlation does not imply a cause-effect relationship.

2. Why does he chooses Points per game? Why doesn’t he use another metric like offensive efficiency or defensive efficiency? Also, did he pace-adjust his data? Probably not.

3. Say you’re the owner of a team. You get Avery Bradley, Jimmy Butler, Thaddeus Young, Paul Millsap and Noah. Bam! Championship team because all those players get a lot of steals. Note there’s extreme sarcasm in the previous assesment.

4. Finally, I’ve got to say the writer looks rather pretentious. There are people working on analytics all over the NBA and he wants to make us believe that he’s got a great discovery with such a poor analysis. I mean… I usually make the same analysis in order to find weaknesses on basketball sim leagues.

Please excuse me if all of this looked like nitpicking. I do research so I learned to be critical with all the stuff I read. We tend to believe that if someone writes in a fashionable way, then the writer must be right.

Hopefully defensive performance will be measured in a better way soon. The new cameras seem to be really helpful.

[King CaluchaParticipant]

I have no intention whatsoever in underrating this guy’s analysis, but there are some things we all need to understand before drawing conclusions:

1. Statistical analysis can always ALWAYS get you the conclussions that you want to reach. If I want to make a stat out of nothing with the intention of making the Bucks the best team in the league, I’ll probably find it. However, correlation does not imply a cause-effect relationship.

2. Why does he chooses Points per game? Why doesn’t he use another metric like offensive efficiency or defensive efficiency? Also, did he pace-adjust his data? Probably not.

3. Say you’re the owner of a team. You get Avery Bradley, Jimmy Butler, Thaddeus Young, Paul Millsap and Noah. Bam! Championship team because all those players get a lot of steals. Note there’s extreme sarcasm in the previous assesment.

4. Finally, I’ve got to say the writer looks rather pretentious. There are people working on analytics all over the NBA and he wants to make us believe that he’s got a great discovery with such a poor analysis. I mean… I usually make the same analysis in order to find weaknesses on basketball sim leagues.

Please excuse me if all of this looked like nitpicking. I do research so I learned to be critical with all the stuff I read. We tend to believe that if someone writes in a fashionable way, then the writer must be right.

Hopefully defensive performance will be measured in a better way soon. The new cameras seem to be really helpful.

[Hector_Reyes_8Participant]

Bradley, Butler, and Noah are great defensive players and Millsap is criminally underrated on his defense even though he is shorter than most big men. Thad isn’t as bulky as Millsap which hurts him in that department.

[Hector_Reyes_8Participant]

Bradley, Butler, and Noah are great defensive players and Millsap is criminally underrated on his defense even though he is shorter than most big men. Thad isn’t as bulky as Millsap which hurts him in that department.

[frogmanParticipant]

 People want to make statistics out of everything.  What if a player trys to jump the passing lane every possession and averages 5 steals per game, but he would also give up constant wide open threes to the other team by gambling.  Defence is all about the eye test, if you get a number of steals and blocks, great.  If not you can still be a dominant all-NBA defender ala Ron Artest, Bruce Bowen etc.

[frogmanParticipant]

 People want to make statistics out of everything.  What if a player trys to jump the passing lane every possession and averages 5 steals per game, but he would also give up constant wide open threes to the other team by gambling.  Defence is all about the eye test, if you get a number of steals and blocks, great.  If not you can still be a dominant all-NBA defender ala Ron Artest, Bruce Bowen etc.

[BogDon_KryptParticipant]

Not to mention Paul George, Kobe Bryant, Lebron, and Caramel Anthony

[BogDon_KryptParticipant]

Not to mention Paul George, Kobe Bryant, Lebron, and Caramel Anthony

[King CaluchaParticipant]

This is where the new cameras will be useful. I think the idea is to create a defensive index that considers all those aspects: Blocked shots, steals, rim protection, rotation, help defense, as positive impact; gambling on blocks and steals, being out of position, etc … as negative impact. This will be very very interesting.

[kngojcParticipant]

 Call it like the "Anchor" stat. The teams who have their defensive anchor have strong stats in those categories that help strengthen their defense, meanwhile the teams who have lackadaisical defenders weigh their team down on the defensive end.

Another way to measure that (because why would a point guard have a high "rim protection" stat) would be to separate between post and perimeter defenders?

[King CaluchaParticipant]

It could be the same rating for everyone, but things would have to be analyzed by position, like PER or other stats.

[King CaluchaParticipant]

It could be the same rating for everyone, but things would have to be analyzed by position, like PER or other stats.

[kngojcParticipant]

 Call it like the "Anchor" stat. The teams who have their defensive anchor have strong stats in those categories that help strengthen their defense, meanwhile the teams who have lackadaisical defenders weigh their team down on the defensive end.

Another way to measure that (because why would a point guard have a high "rim protection" stat) would be to separate between post and perimeter defenders?

[King CaluchaParticipant]

This is where the new cameras will be useful. I think the idea is to create a defensive index that considers all those aspects: Blocked shots, steals, rim protection, rotation, help defense, as positive impact; gambling on blocks and steals, being out of position, etc … as negative impact. This will be very very interesting.

[JoeWolf1]

 Antoine Walker has higher steals per game averages on his career than Dennis Rodman and Bruce Bowen.

[JoeWolf1]

 Antoine Walker has higher steals per game averages on his career than Dennis Rodman and Bruce Bowen.

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