[TONYDABOSS77Participant]

 

I just watched tha 95 Hoop Summit & I was listening to tha commentators compare KG to Magic & say he was tha best passing big since Bill Walton..and it was funny to me.

  It’s not funny to me because I think they’re wrong. It’s funny because today we look at kids like Ben Simmons or Ingram & it’ll get brought up how BS runs an offense like J-Kidd or he runs tha break like Magic did or how Ingram is tha next KD. Then, someone will pop up & say how we need to respect tha legend we mentioned & slow down on those comparisons until they get to tha NBA & show that skill. But thats crazy. Nobody’s saying BS will have tha career Magic had & no one’s saying KG would either, they’re just getting compared because of tha skill sets. Not that they’re totally alike, just that there are similarities in their games. 

Another thing I noticed is tha difference between teams now & then & how tha league’s changed. I watched KG in that game & he stood out with his combination of motor, size & skillset. He also stood out because he missed a lot of easy plays was really frail. It got me thinking about his situation. He was drafted 5th overall & brought along very slowly by tha Wolves. He played 28 minutes, but only started tha second half of tha year. But, they played him through his ups & downs. They allowed him to have great moments & they allowed him to struggle & they allowed him to really develop. They developed him. That’s what stuck out to me. It got me thinking about how tha same has served true with Dirk, Giannis, Porzingis, etc. It also got me thinking about guys who weren’t afforded that luxury like Darius Miles, Perry Jones, etc.

 And it got me thinking about Thon Maker. I thought about him because he’s roughly tha same guy as KG was in 95. Top high school recruit with crazy combination of motor, size & skillset. I think if a team drafts him & is committed to playing him 25 minutes a night from Day 1, while also understanding that he’s going to have some high ups & some low downs, that he will be a once in a decade type talent. He’s so thin & so raw that he’s going to really struggle at times, but he’s so uniquely gifted that he will also show incredible flashes at times. I would love to see Thon go to a team that has a coach that knows how to develop guys & coach them like tha Celtics, Bucks, or to Mike Malone or Pat Riley. If you’re a team in tha top 5, you’re usually really bad & it takes a while to turn your team around. Why not play Thon through tha good & bad so that he’ll ultimately develop?? Whats tha worst that can happen to your team…you lose? 

 

 

 

[TONYDABOSS77Participant]

 And another funny thing is that even with everybody amazed by KG’s skillset, people were still saying he wasn’t going to be a good player. During tha game tha announcer said that he had talked to several NBA people & that they said Garnett was "certainly not a top prospect & wouldn’t go in tha lottery, but may be picked in tha top 20s or so."

[therealbballerParticipant]

 I guess that there is a lot of downtalking on big talent before the draft so you might be able to pick him up later than expected. Like this scenario. If everybody says that KG is not a lottery talent some decision makers are gonna belive that… It is atleast worth a shot for the chanse of picking up KG with the 12th pick instead of the 5th, if you understand what i mean? 

 

[therealbballerParticipant]

 I guess that there is a lot of downtalking on big talent before the draft so you might be able to pick him up later than expected. Like this scenario. If everybody says that KG is not a lottery talent some decision makers are gonna belive that… It is atleast worth a shot for the chanse of picking up KG with the 12th pick instead of the 5th, if you understand what i mean? 

 

[TONYDABOSS77Participant]

 And another funny thing is that even with everybody amazed by KG’s skillset, people were still saying he wasn’t going to be a good player. During tha game tha announcer said that he had talked to several NBA people & that they said Garnett was "certainly not a top prospect & wouldn’t go in tha lottery, but may be picked in tha top 20s or so."

[markfitz14Participant]

 I haven’t watched the old KG videos to see if he had it early on, but he was money from midrange. I have not seen that stroke from Thon.

He reminds me more of Noel. A specialist shot blocker, D guy.

 

[markfitz14Participant]

 I haven’t watched the old KG videos to see if he had it early on, but he was money from midrange. I have not seen that stroke from Thon.

He reminds me more of Noel. A specialist shot blocker, D guy.

 

[TRC1991Participant]

Thon will be a guy that consistently thinks hes better than he really is, and will try to do everything in his power to establish himself as a go-to guy 

 

more like a mix of Andray Blatche and Michael Beasley 

 

 

[Bankroll PJParticipant]

 I can see the Blatche comparison but I disagree on the Beasley mix. Beasley was and is a superbly gifted offensive talent. He dominated in HS and college and played very well early in his career. "Raw" is a word that was never used to define Beasley but is routinely used with Thon Maker. There’s a variety of reasons that Beasley found his way out of the league before this stint with the Rockets, but it wasn’t because he thought he was better than he is and actively tried to establish himself as a go to player. 

[Bankroll PJParticipant]

 I can see the Blatche comparison but I disagree on the Beasley mix. Beasley was and is a superbly gifted offensive talent. He dominated in HS and college and played very well early in his career. "Raw" is a word that was never used to define Beasley but is routinely used with Thon Maker. There’s a variety of reasons that Beasley found his way out of the league before this stint with the Rockets, but it wasn’t because he thought he was better than he is and actively tried to establish himself as a go to player. 

[TRC1991Participant]

Thon will be a guy that consistently thinks hes better than he really is, and will try to do everything in his power to establish himself as a go-to guy 

 

more like a mix of Andray Blatche and Michael Beasley 

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Tonydaboss what your saying is contradicting. Your saying a team needs to throw him in the fire allow him to play full rotations 25-mpg, detect his mistakes allow him to play through them then correct them. You also say he needs to go to a team with good coaching and talent like Boston, Denver, or the Bucks so he can develop. Problem with that is those teams cannot have Maker eat up 25-mpg for development purposes and already have a logjam at PF/C. Bucks have Parker, Henson, Obryant, and Monroe. Denver has Faried, Jokic, Lauvergne, and Nurkic. Celtics have Olynyk, Sullinger, Zeller, possibly Amir and Mickey who desperately needs more minutes. Those are developed nba players the players you listed like KG, Dirk, KP are talents that come around every decade or so. Maker is a project he is not on that level yet. His beat bet for a ton of playing time would be the Sun’s with the Washington pick as I doubt he gets selected top 5. His best fit would probably be with Toronto or Boston with the late lotto picks but that would likely be a slow development with the D-League playing a major role.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Tonydaboss what your saying is contradicting. Your saying a team needs to throw him in the fire allow him to play full rotations 25-mpg, detect his mistakes allow him to play through them then correct them. You also say he needs to go to a team with good coaching and talent like Boston, Denver, or the Bucks so he can develop. Problem with that is those teams cannot have Maker eat up 25-mpg for development purposes and already have a logjam at PF/C. Bucks have Parker, Henson, Obryant, and Monroe. Denver has Faried, Jokic, Lauvergne, and Nurkic. Celtics have Olynyk, Sullinger, Zeller, possibly Amir and Mickey who desperately needs more minutes. Those are developed nba players the players you listed like KG, Dirk, KP are talents that come around every decade or so. Maker is a project he is not on that level yet. His beat bet for a ton of playing time would be the Sun’s with the Washington pick as I doubt he gets selected top 5. His best fit would probably be with Toronto or Boston with the late lotto picks but that would likely be a slow development with the D-League playing a major role.

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

 Maker is more likely the next Ndudi Ebi than the next Garnett.

Maybe Maker will be drafted by Minnesota.

 

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

 Maker is more likely the next Ndudi Ebi than the next Garnett.

Maybe Maker will be drafted by Minnesota.

 

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

What does Maker do well? 

Highlight vids are usless because All I see is a 7-footer dunking. 

I hear big man with motor and rim protector and I get nervous. That to me, screams "not skilled, good at dunking"

That seems like a dime-a-dozen guy at this point. 

I’ve heard he can shoot – can he make shots? Is he in love with outside shots, because I hate that in a big man. 

Don’t even throw out an NBA comparison, can this guy be a good NBA player and if he is, what’s he going to do well at the NBA level? 

 

 

 

 

 

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

What does Maker do well? 

Highlight vids are usless because All I see is a 7-footer dunking. 

I hear big man with motor and rim protector and I get nervous. That to me, screams "not skilled, good at dunking"

That seems like a dime-a-dozen guy at this point. 

I’ve heard he can shoot – can he make shots? Is he in love with outside shots, because I hate that in a big man. 

Don’t even throw out an NBA comparison, can this guy be a good NBA player and if he is, what’s he going to do well at the NBA level? 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hype Machine]

No one is a bigger Thon Maker believer than me…but even I’m realistic.

 

A 19yo bigman who isnt physically ready is a major injury risk who wouldnt help you win anyways.

 

No need to reinvent the wheel. Give him garbage time minutes in the NBA and 2 or 3 stints in the D-League over the course of the season to work on a few things. 

Other than that, lots of shooting reps, lots of weights and conditioning, and watching the vets.

Reevaluate after 1 year. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MopgrassParticipant]

To the dude who thought maker was like Nerlens Noel: nope. Nerlens was an elite shot blocker since HS. Maker won’t be an elite shot blocker, he’ll be average. But he can cover a lot of ground, works hard, and is building strength rapidly. He could eventually be a top 5 defensive center. Today he’ll be tossed around ridiculously.

Why do people keep saying he’s not skilled? He is SO skilled. That’s why people have made a big deal about him, not because of a couple dunks. He can disappear at times, his shot selection is questionable, he doesn’t always rise to the occasion, he can make movements look awkward, he doesn’t have a post game, and his shot isn’t consistent yet. However, consistency comes with the repetition he hasn’t had because he’s still new to basketball, he shot form is excellent and will inevitably fall with practicing good mechanics, he is also capable of shockingly coordinated moves, and he just began learning the post this year and probably won’t play in the post much in today’s NBA.

As far as which team would be good for him: the Lakers (not with the #2 pick). Put him at center, let them get killed, and they keep their top 3 pick for 2017 while developing a player with great potential. Not sure how they swing that trade though: Larry Nance plus someone.

[MopgrassParticipant]

To the dude who thought maker was like Nerlens Noel: nope. Nerlens was an elite shot blocker since HS. Maker won’t be an elite shot blocker, he’ll be average. But he can cover a lot of ground, works hard, and is building strength rapidly. He could eventually be a top 5 defensive center. Today he’ll be tossed around ridiculously.

Why do people keep saying he’s not skilled? He is SO skilled. That’s why people have made a big deal about him, not because of a couple dunks. He can disappear at times, his shot selection is questionable, he doesn’t always rise to the occasion, he can make movements look awkward, he doesn’t have a post game, and his shot isn’t consistent yet. However, consistency comes with the repetition he hasn’t had because he’s still new to basketball, he shot form is excellent and will inevitably fall with practicing good mechanics, he is also capable of shockingly coordinated moves, and he just began learning the post this year and probably won’t play in the post much in today’s NBA.

As far as which team would be good for him: the Lakers (not with the #2 pick). Put him at center, let them get killed, and they keep their top 3 pick for 2017 while developing a player with great potential. Not sure how they swing that trade though: Larry Nance plus someone.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 

It’s funny because up until this year everyone picked on Maker saying he just doesn’t takeover games and aside from some mixtapes he is all flash and no substance. Now when he does play consistently it’s because he is "a year older" like Skal was when he outplayed Thon last year at HoopSummit. 

Then you have a guy like Ayton who like Maker has an amazing build (including 20 pounds on Maker) athletic abillity and skill but like Maker has failed to dominate so far in HS basketball.

Thon plays 14-minutes and grabs 10 rebounds shooting 1-5 in a win and is just destroyed by the media. Ayton goes 3-9 for 8-points, 7-rebounds in 26 minutes in a loss and he’s still the best prospect outside of the NBA. The difference between the two lies in their biggest similarity. The similarity is that they lack a dominant nature. The difference is scouts say "not feeling him" in regards to Thons pro potential and say "even know he struggled it’s easy to see why he will soon be dominant" when talking about Ayton.

I’m not saying they are wrong or Maker is better than Ayton I’m just pointing out there’s clear bias here. They clearly have the same flaw if you read proposed scouting reports it’s just Makers veiwed pessimistically and Ayton is viewed optimistically.

 

 

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 

It’s funny because up until this year everyone picked on Maker saying he just doesn’t takeover games and aside from some mixtapes he is all flash and no substance. Now when he does play consistently it’s because he is "a year older" like Skal was when he outplayed Thon last year at HoopSummit. 

Then you have a guy like Ayton who like Maker has an amazing build (including 20 pounds on Maker) athletic abillity and skill but like Maker has failed to dominate so far in HS basketball.

Thon plays 14-minutes and grabs 10 rebounds shooting 1-5 in a win and is just destroyed by the media. Ayton goes 3-9 for 8-points, 7-rebounds in 26 minutes in a loss and he’s still the best prospect outside of the NBA. The difference between the two lies in their biggest similarity. The similarity is that they lack a dominant nature. The difference is scouts say "not feeling him" in regards to Thons pro potential and say "even know he struggled it’s easy to see why he will soon be dominant" when talking about Ayton.

I’m not saying they are wrong or Maker is better than Ayton I’m just pointing out there’s clear bias here. They clearly have the same flaw if you read proposed scouting reports it’s just Makers veiwed pessimistically and Ayton is viewed optimistically.

 

 

 

 

[Hype Machine]

Find me an Aussie that doesnt get bashed by the US media.

Dellavedova & Bogut are supposedly the 2 dirtiest players in the league

Simmons rep is all but destroyed despite being a top 2 lock. Brandon Ingram theoretically is a similarly talented prospect, yet might as well be an angel sent from heaven in comparison

Maker declares, and salty US draft sites (not this one) can’t stop bashing his game. All they ever mention is his 2pt hoop summit performance.

I basically had to massively overhype Froling and McDowell White just for people to notice them, and now after the Hoops Summit they’re all surprised that they actually have game.

Prove me wrong and tell me an Aussie that is either properly rated, or isn’t getting a raw deal by US media.

 

 

[Hype Machine]

Find me an Aussie that doesnt get bashed by the US media.

Dellavedova & Bogut are supposedly the 2 dirtiest players in the league

Simmons rep is all but destroyed despite being a top 2 lock. Brandon Ingram theoretically is a similarly talented prospect, yet might as well be an angel sent from heaven in comparison

Maker declares, and salty US draft sites (not this one) can’t stop bashing his game. All they ever mention is his 2pt hoop summit performance.

I basically had to massively overhype Froling and McDowell White just for people to notice them, and now after the Hoops Summit they’re all surprised that they actually have game.

Prove me wrong and tell me an Aussie that is either properly rated, or isn’t getting a raw deal by US media.

 

 

[tjedwardzParticipant]

 KYRIE IRVING

[tjedwardzParticipant]

 KYRIE IRVING

[Magic JordanParticipant]

Isn’t Ayton like 3 years younger than Maker?  That would explain a lot, and certainly shouldn’t be ommitted when pointing out a "clear bias".  When Ayton is 19 years old he will face far more scrutiny than Maker could ever imagine due to him being a generational type talent, but he’s barely old enough to drive.  Apples to Oranges.

[Magic JordanParticipant]

Isn’t Ayton like 3 years younger than Maker?  That would explain a lot, and certainly shouldn’t be ommitted when pointing out a "clear bias".  When Ayton is 19 years old he will face far more scrutiny than Maker could ever imagine due to him being a generational type talent, but he’s barely old enough to drive.  Apples to Oranges.

[Hype Machine]

No one is a bigger Thon Maker believer than me…but even I’m realistic.

 

A 19yo bigman who isnt physically ready is a major injury risk who wouldnt help you win anyways.

 

No need to reinvent the wheel. Give him garbage time minutes in the NBA and 2 or 3 stints in the D-League over the course of the season to work on a few things. 

Other than that, lots of shooting reps, lots of weights and conditioning, and watching the vets.

Reevaluate after 1 year. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

What I don’t like about Maker is that he tries too hard to be a guard. He can handle the ball somewhat, but it is still super sloppy. He tries to prove too much that he has a handle that it hurts his game. He’s falling to the Thomas Robinson curse where he tried to hard to prove he was an SF that it hurt his game. Also, he has super tiny hands.

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

What I don’t like about Maker is that he tries too hard to be a guard. He can handle the ball somewhat, but it is still super sloppy. He tries to prove too much that he has a handle that it hurts his game. He’s falling to the Thomas Robinson curse where he tried to hard to prove he was an SF that it hurt his game. Also, he has super tiny hands.

[I am an idiotParticipant]

 It’s great to go back and look at a KG tape and learn from it. However, how many other 19 year olds had similar comments about their motor, skill, etc. and never amounted to anything?

It’s an uphill battle for anyone to have a KG type impact. The odds are against Maker, but they are also against most of the kids in the draft (and they are all kids).

As far as I can tell, the one advantage Maker has is that he seems to have a high level of intensity (not KG-high, no one is that intense). That drive to continue to improve, even after you get a big paycheck, is what allows a 19-year old to turn into an all-star (as well as the right environment to grow).

LeBron, Kobe, Bird, Magic, Russell etc. all had that fire. Maker might, it doesn’t seem that Simmons has it. 

 

 

 

 

[I am an idiotParticipant]

 It’s great to go back and look at a KG tape and learn from it. However, how many other 19 year olds had similar comments about their motor, skill, etc. and never amounted to anything?

It’s an uphill battle for anyone to have a KG type impact. The odds are against Maker, but they are also against most of the kids in the draft (and they are all kids).

As far as I can tell, the one advantage Maker has is that he seems to have a high level of intensity (not KG-high, no one is that intense). That drive to continue to improve, even after you get a big paycheck, is what allows a 19-year old to turn into an all-star (as well as the right environment to grow).

LeBron, Kobe, Bird, Magic, Russell etc. all had that fire. Maker might, it doesn’t seem that Simmons has it. 

 

 

 

 

[tjedwardzParticipant]

Thon Maker is not a Center. Will not ever be a Center in the NBA. Will rotate through the Center position due to his size, but the best way to build is skills would be to keep him at solely SF. He will live at the 3-4, SF-PF spot. Continue to develop those outside skills until he’s strong enough to bang with the big guys. He is a 3. Stop calling him a Center. He does not have a ‘Big Man’ game. Not a post player.  

[tjedwardzParticipant]

Thon Maker is not a Center. Will not ever be a Center in the NBA. Will rotate through the Center position due to his size, but the best way to build is skills would be to keep him at solely SF. He will live at the 3-4, SF-PF spot. Continue to develop those outside skills until he’s strong enough to bang with the big guys. He is a 3. Stop calling him a Center. He does not have a ‘Big Man’ game. Not a post player.  

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 If Maker is forced to play the 3 he will be out of the league by the time his rookie deal is up.  He’s not a 3.  He may appear to be a 3 in his mixtapes, but he would destroy any offense from the 3 spot and would get abused on the defensive end from the 3 spot.  

His physical attributes are extremely rare for a person 7 feet.  His advantage will come when he puts those skills and advantages to use against other 7 footers.  But you don’t slot him at the 3 because he has shown flashes (keyword flashes) of some skills of a 3.  He won’t spread the floor, he won’t beat any 3 off the dribble and he will get blown by when he is on defense.

The 5 is not what it used to be, outside of a handful of players that would make him pay in the post (and even then at a point per possession?  Doubtful) he will be able to guard the 5 fine seeing how hardly anybody just dumps the ball into the post anymore.  He will be required to protect the rim and rotate on defense, something his physical attributes project him to be able to do at a pretty high level.

He will be able to beat 5’s off the dribble.  Again, his advantage.  

The key to the new NBA is not play a player where his skill set emulates, you play him at the position where his skillset provides the most advantages, and that is unquestionably the 5 spot for Maker.

I would love the Lakers to get their hands on him, though not sure I see how it is possible.  Maker, Qi, Cornelie are all guys I would love for the Lakers to target in the back half of the 2nd round.  All project, to me to be nice players for the modern day 5 spot.

 

 

 

 

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 back half of the 1st round.  All of those guys will obviously be gone by the 2nd.

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 back half of the 1st round.  All of those guys will obviously be gone by the 2nd.

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 If Maker is forced to play the 3 he will be out of the league by the time his rookie deal is up.  He’s not a 3.  He may appear to be a 3 in his mixtapes, but he would destroy any offense from the 3 spot and would get abused on the defensive end from the 3 spot.  

His physical attributes are extremely rare for a person 7 feet.  His advantage will come when he puts those skills and advantages to use against other 7 footers.  But you don’t slot him at the 3 because he has shown flashes (keyword flashes) of some skills of a 3.  He won’t spread the floor, he won’t beat any 3 off the dribble and he will get blown by when he is on defense.

The 5 is not what it used to be, outside of a handful of players that would make him pay in the post (and even then at a point per possession?  Doubtful) he will be able to guard the 5 fine seeing how hardly anybody just dumps the ball into the post anymore.  He will be required to protect the rim and rotate on defense, something his physical attributes project him to be able to do at a pretty high level.

He will be able to beat 5’s off the dribble.  Again, his advantage.  

The key to the new NBA is not play a player where his skill set emulates, you play him at the position where his skillset provides the most advantages, and that is unquestionably the 5 spot for Maker.

I would love the Lakers to get their hands on him, though not sure I see how it is possible.  Maker, Qi, Cornelie are all guys I would love for the Lakers to target in the back half of the 2nd round.  All project, to me to be nice players for the modern day 5 spot.

 

 

 

 

 

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