[LambTheBeast03Participant]

 Am I wrong? Or have Syracuse prospects ended up in bad places for them? Johnny Flynn is considered a bust but he had to play in a restrictive triangle setting and never got to utilize his strengths before he hurt his hip and zapped him of his otherworldly athleticism. I’m making no excuses for Wes Johnson but he went to a completely out of control T-wolves team with no guidance on how to play the game; and he got horrible habits. Waiters has been in a horrible coaching situation with horrible veteran leadership in Cleveland. SU players that’s have came in to stable coaching environments such as Carmelo with George Karl and MCW with Bryce Brown have prospered; is the problem the school or the situation?

[he_gets_bucketsParticipant]

The two busts you list both went to the Timberwolves, who are notorious for poor player, so I’d say a lot of its on the organisation that drafts them. Syracuse as a program can also have a small amount of blame attributed to them as the Boeheim zone defensive scheme doesnt prepare guys as best as what say Kentucky, Kansas, or most other High-Major schools can be argued to. But to be honest, I think Jonny only went out of the league so quickly due to  his injury and Wes was just a flat out bust. 

[he_gets_bucketsParticipant]

The two busts you list both went to the Timberwolves, who are notorious for poor player, so I’d say a lot of its on the organisation that drafts them. Syracuse as a program can also have a small amount of blame attributed to them as the Boeheim zone defensive scheme doesnt prepare guys as best as what say Kentucky, Kansas, or most other High-Major schools can be argued to. But to be honest, I think Jonny only went out of the league so quickly due to  his injury and Wes was just a flat out bust. 

[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

 Bryce Brown hahaha, I didnt know the Bills running back was a coach….. 

[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

 Bryce Brown hahaha, I didnt know the Bills running back was a coach….. 

[DunksNJordans23Participant]

 Just so you know, Karl was hired half way through Melo’s second season.

[DunksNJordans23Participant]

 Just so you know, Karl was hired half way through Melo’s second season.

[tuck243Participant]

I actually believe its not the pros…  It’s the COLLEGE coach…   They come from that 2-3 system where they don’t do anything on defense…  I’m surprised Waiters and MCW had decent years…   They get a lot of talent each year and only ONE starter before MCW (Melo)…  The rest are either out the league or on their way there… How long Melo been in the league? 11 years now? It’s not the Wolves, it’s Jim Boeheim.  

 

 

[tuck243Participant]

I actually believe its not the pros…  It’s the COLLEGE coach…   They come from that 2-3 system where they don’t do anything on defense…  I’m surprised Waiters and MCW had decent years…   They get a lot of talent each year and only ONE starter before MCW (Melo)…  The rest are either out the league or on their way there… How long Melo been in the league? 11 years now? It’s not the Wolves, it’s Jim Boeheim.  

 

 

[Jester87Participant]

The whole thing about the 2-3 defense is a bit overrated in my opinion. It made sense when most of the players stayed in college 3 or 4 years. They learned team defense fundamentals and they were usually able to contribute from the get go on defense too. Having played 4 years of 2-3 zone was a huge handicap back then. Now with so many one and dones or sophomore leaving and a small numbers of juniors and seniors going to the Nba, most of the young players suck on defense in their first few years in the league, no matter where they played. Some players are good one on one defenders, because they have great physical tools, but they need some time to learn what to do off the ball, to understand rotations and so on. Nba defensive schemes are much more sophisticated than those in the Ncaa (which keep getting simpler and simpler because there are fewer returning key players) and superior physical gifts can make up for a lot of things. And most of those players haven’t been in college for more than a year or two, so they weren’t all that familiar with college schemes either.

By the way some of the busts mentioned before had most of their problems on offense. Wesley Johnson has been a bust because he can’t do anything on offense except for shooting and he has never shot all that well. Flynn, even before injuries, struggled because of his decision making and because his reckless style of play wasn’t a great fit for Kurt Rambis’ offense. I have a hard time thinking Jim Boheim and his zone defense have something to do with those things.

[tuck243Participant]

Donte Greene, Paul Harris, Hakim Warrick, Kris Joseph, Fab Melo…  These aren’t trash players.. .They were 5-4 star recruits…  For all the success Syracuse have year to year and good under classmen it hasn’t equated to success in the pros…  Outside of Melo you couldn’t name one decent role player from Syracuse… Like I said MCW and Waiters, but this is 1-2 year players… 

Playing 2-3 in college has hendered their progress in the pros…  Where are you getting your evidence from that it hasn’t? It also is a major issue when trying to scout these prospects as well…  They get hid in that defense and you can’t tell if they have the lateral foot speed to keep up…  Jabari got KILLED by everyone on this site for his lack of defense…  Tyler Ennis played on top of a zone all year and skipped out on the ridicule…  I don’t understand your logic…  The NBA play man 99% of the time, how playing ANY other defense in college 99% of the time will help them?  HOW??  

 

 

 

[tuck243Participant]

Donte Greene, Paul Harris, Hakim Warrick, Kris Joseph, Fab Melo…  These aren’t trash players.. .They were 5-4 star recruits…  For all the success Syracuse have year to year and good under classmen it hasn’t equated to success in the pros…  Outside of Melo you couldn’t name one decent role player from Syracuse… Like I said MCW and Waiters, but this is 1-2 year players… 

Playing 2-3 in college has hendered their progress in the pros…  Where are you getting your evidence from that it hasn’t? It also is a major issue when trying to scout these prospects as well…  They get hid in that defense and you can’t tell if they have the lateral foot speed to keep up…  Jabari got KILLED by everyone on this site for his lack of defense…  Tyler Ennis played on top of a zone all year and skipped out on the ridicule…  I don’t understand your logic…  The NBA play man 99% of the time, how playing ANY other defense in college 99% of the time will help them?  HOW??  

 

 

 

[Jester87Participant]

The whole thing about the 2-3 defense is a bit overrated in my opinion. It made sense when most of the players stayed in college 3 or 4 years. They learned team defense fundamentals and they were usually able to contribute from the get go on defense too. Having played 4 years of 2-3 zone was a huge handicap back then. Now with so many one and dones or sophomore leaving and a small numbers of juniors and seniors going to the Nba, most of the young players suck on defense in their first few years in the league, no matter where they played. Some players are good one on one defenders, because they have great physical tools, but they need some time to learn what to do off the ball, to understand rotations and so on. Nba defensive schemes are much more sophisticated than those in the Ncaa (which keep getting simpler and simpler because there are fewer returning key players) and superior physical gifts can make up for a lot of things. And most of those players haven’t been in college for more than a year or two, so they weren’t all that familiar with college schemes either.

By the way some of the busts mentioned before had most of their problems on offense. Wesley Johnson has been a bust because he can’t do anything on offense except for shooting and he has never shot all that well. Flynn, even before injuries, struggled because of his decision making and because his reckless style of play wasn’t a great fit for Kurt Rambis’ offense. I have a hard time thinking Jim Boheim and his zone defense have something to do with those things.

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