[ReturnofthelemonParticipant]

First off, I hope everyone had a great Super Bowl Sunday. I just came across this on ESPN and given how the Suns are playing this year, what trade(s) do you think they might go for to become more of a contender?

espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10392533/phoenix-suns-explore-deal-los-angeles-lakers-pau-gasol

  

[BrentSuriaga01Participant]

Gotta give credit to Pau being able to maintain his professionalism considering how the Lakers treated him for the past two years. I would not blame the guy if he gets upset and vocally demands a trade, Jim Buss treated him like an irrelevant b-tch and I think he deserves at least one more opportunity to be on a contending team 

[BrentSuriaga01Participant]

Gotta give credit to Pau being able to maintain his professionalism considering how the Lakers treated him for the past two years. I would not blame the guy if he gets upset and vocally demands a trade, Jim Buss treated him like an irrelevant b-tch and I think he deserves at least one more opportunity to be on a contending team 

[PHXSUNDREAMPICK13Participant]

 Dont think the suns need him.  Wont be good in transition and defense.  On the other hand the trade could revitalize him and he might be a solid bench aquisition.  Olijuwon gave us the dream shake and the Suns give us the dream rehab… Go Suns!!!

[PHXSUNDREAMPICK13Participant]

 Dont think the suns need him.  Wont be good in transition and defense.  On the other hand the trade could revitalize him and he might be a solid bench aquisition.  Olijuwon gave us the dream shake and the Suns give us the dream rehab… Go Suns!!!

[MopgrassParticipant]

The talk is Gasol for Okafor and pick(s).

The Suns have 3 to 4 first rounders (Wizards top 12 protected, TWolves top 13 protected, Pacers, and their own pick).

The question is: how many picks?

[PHXSUNDREAMPICK13Participant]

 Ok.  Lets try this out.  Gasol for Okafor, Phx 1st round 2014, and A. Goodwin

Pf. Gasol/ Mk. Morris

Sf Frye/ M. Morris/Tucker

C Plumlee/Len

Sg Bledsoe/ G.Green/Barbosa

Pg Dragic/I. Smith/Barbosa

Starting lineup looks good with Gasol and Plumlee down low and Frye taking threes.  Dragic and Bledsoe drive and kick out is even better w/ Gasol.   Good passing and rebounding added by Gasol with one on one ability down low and midrange shooting.  Doesnt affect reserve team unless coming from the bench which could be another dynamic to consider.  Stronger defense better offense against Spurs and Grizzlies but slower defense and offense against Thunder, Warriors, and Heat.  Outlook:  Currently will battle well in first round but will probably not advance past second round.  Gasol addition could bring them to the West finals but probably no further.  Sign him for two more years after and go for the finals 2015 and 2016 with a still improving team.  Wont hurt development with Wizards pick in 2014 and Lakers pick in 2015.  Will help draw free agents in next three years…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[festar35Participant]

Tucker is not coming out of the starting line-up he is too valuable as a defender.

Also starting Frye at SF would slow the pace of the team down. I think you are right that Plumlee stays in the starting line up.

[festar35Participant]

Tucker is not coming out of the starting line-up he is too valuable as a defender.

Also starting Frye at SF would slow the pace of the team down. I think you are right that Plumlee stays in the starting line up.

[sunset rubdownParticipant]

You must be kiddin` me if you think Suns are going to give all that for 33yo Gasol who will be a FA this summer. 

Lakers have no leverage here, they would be saving a ton of money by dealing Pau now.

John Gambadoro @Gambo987 Follow The Suns would not give up a first round pick for Gasol only Okafor because it adds 8 mill in payroll and subtracts 13 off LAs books.

 

 

 

[sunset rubdownParticipant]

You must be kiddin` me if you think Suns are going to give all that for 33yo Gasol who will be a FA this summer. 

Lakers have no leverage here, they would be saving a ton of money by dealing Pau now.

John Gambadoro @Gambo987 Follow The Suns would not give up a first round pick for Gasol only Okafor because it adds 8 mill in payroll and subtracts 13 off LAs books.

 

 

 

[sheltwon3Participant]

 Gasol would play Cente and help develop Len.

[sheltwon3Participant]

 Gasol would play Cente and help develop Len.

[PHXSUNDREAMPICK13Participant]

 Ok.  Lets try this out.  Gasol for Okafor, Phx 1st round 2014, and A. Goodwin

Pf. Gasol/ Mk. Morris

Sf Frye/ M. Morris/Tucker

C Plumlee/Len

Sg Bledsoe/ G.Green/Barbosa

Pg Dragic/I. Smith/Barbosa

Starting lineup looks good with Gasol and Plumlee down low and Frye taking threes.  Dragic and Bledsoe drive and kick out is even better w/ Gasol.   Good passing and rebounding added by Gasol with one on one ability down low and midrange shooting.  Doesnt affect reserve team unless coming from the bench which could be another dynamic to consider.  Stronger defense better offense against Spurs and Grizzlies but slower defense and offense against Thunder, Warriors, and Heat.  Outlook:  Currently will battle well in first round but will probably not advance past second round.  Gasol addition could bring them to the West finals but probably no further.  Sign him for two more years after and go for the finals 2015 and 2016 with a still improving team.  Wont hurt development with Wizards pick in 2014 and Lakers pick in 2015.  Will help draw free agents in next three years…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MopgrassParticipant]

The talk is Gasol for Okafor and pick(s).

The Suns have 3 to 4 first rounders (Wizards top 12 protected, TWolves top 13 protected, Pacers, and their own pick).

The question is: how many picks?

[Hector_Reyes_8Participant]

Lakers should do this immediately…

[Hector_Reyes_8Participant]

Lakers should do this immediately…

[HitsterParticipant]

As you may know I’m a Suns fan, so I’ll declare my hand. Given that the Lakers can save a lot of cash and probably put them into full tank mode if we assume that Okafor doesn’t return this season. I’d offer the Lakers Okafor plus the Indiana pick which is currently 30th and nothing more.

A lot could depend on whether Phoenix would see Gasol as more than a short term rental and what his salary demands might be for next season and onwards. Gasol would effectively be a 30 game rental and if it boosts our play off chances to maybe get up to at least 6th seed then it’s a good deal. Also if it cements our play off spot then the extra cost of Gasol is probably covered by play off revenue and we still have a couple of draft picks for this year to use.

Whether Phoenix would want Gasol longer term would probably depend on how they see Alex Len developing, he was a high draft pick last summer so was a major investment. We also have the Morris twins, Plumlee under contract for next season and Frye has a $6.8 million player option which I’d guess he’d opt into so our frontcourt already has nice depth. Gasol I’d imagine could command a salary of $12 million minimum next season and will get a fair few FA offers from stronger teams. So I’d edge towards it being a rental.

If the Lakers make the trade it puts them into full on tank but would a proud Kobe really like this and does he still want Gasol as a team mate I wonder. If the Lakers got a high pick, I still think they need another top FA just to take the pressure off the lottery pick as with Kobe there and the Lakers fans mindset, would the player be allowed to develop.

Okafor would give the Lakers a lot of luxury tax saving and perhaps even a chance to do another pre deadline deal with his expiring deal if they so wanted. Also if Okafor did return to fitness in due course, he could be a nice veteran big for the Lakers rebounding and anchoring the paint for a reasonable salary extension.

[HitsterParticipant]

As you may know I’m a Suns fan, so I’ll declare my hand. Given that the Lakers can save a lot of cash and probably put them into full tank mode if we assume that Okafor doesn’t return this season. I’d offer the Lakers Okafor plus the Indiana pick which is currently 30th and nothing more.

A lot could depend on whether Phoenix would see Gasol as more than a short term rental and what his salary demands might be for next season and onwards. Gasol would effectively be a 30 game rental and if it boosts our play off chances to maybe get up to at least 6th seed then it’s a good deal. Also if it cements our play off spot then the extra cost of Gasol is probably covered by play off revenue and we still have a couple of draft picks for this year to use.

Whether Phoenix would want Gasol longer term would probably depend on how they see Alex Len developing, he was a high draft pick last summer so was a major investment. We also have the Morris twins, Plumlee under contract for next season and Frye has a $6.8 million player option which I’d guess he’d opt into so our frontcourt already has nice depth. Gasol I’d imagine could command a salary of $12 million minimum next season and will get a fair few FA offers from stronger teams. So I’d edge towards it being a rental.

If the Lakers make the trade it puts them into full on tank but would a proud Kobe really like this and does he still want Gasol as a team mate I wonder. If the Lakers got a high pick, I still think they need another top FA just to take the pressure off the lottery pick as with Kobe there and the Lakers fans mindset, would the player be allowed to develop.

Okafor would give the Lakers a lot of luxury tax saving and perhaps even a chance to do another pre deadline deal with his expiring deal if they so wanted. Also if Okafor did return to fitness in due course, he could be a nice veteran big for the Lakers rebounding and anchoring the paint for a reasonable salary extension.

[sheltwon3Participant]

 Lakers don’t have a lot of leverage but at same time, Gasol is a 20 and 10 player so if Suns are really trying to do something, they have may have to accept a respectable deal of look else where.  A deal of Okafor, Goodwin, and Suns draft pick which will be in the low 20’s for Gasol is not a terrible deal because Gasol may make the pick mid 20’s.

Sun don’t have minutes for Goodwin because Green has been so good.  They also don’t really need a ton of young players.

If they resign Bledsoe, they are pretty much set at most positions and then  they have a nice bench.

 

PG Bledsoe/I Smith/Barbosa

SG Dragic/Green

SF Tucker/M. Morris

PF Frye/Mk Morris

C Len/Plumlee

 

 

I could see if Lakers were pushing for Minny pick or the Wiz pick

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MopgrassParticipant]

The Lakers will ask for the moon. Cleveland turned them down because they insisted on Waiters.

I’d guess they ask for 2 first rounders. They’ll probably ask for the top two. I don’t know what they’ll actually get, but they’ll certainly insist on 2.

Right now, in the 1st round, the Suns have…

13th pick (Wizards… if they win a few more)
17th pick (TWolves)
22nd pick (their own)
30th pick (Pacers) 

[MopgrassParticipant]

The Lakers will ask for the moon. Cleveland turned them down because they insisted on Waiters.

I’d guess they ask for 2 first rounders. They’ll probably ask for the top two. I don’t know what they’ll actually get, but they’ll certainly insist on 2.

Right now, in the 1st round, the Suns have…

13th pick (Wizards… if they win a few more)
17th pick (TWolves)
22nd pick (their own)
30th pick (Pacers) 

[sheltwon3Participant]

 Lakers don’t have a lot of leverage but at same time, Gasol is a 20 and 10 player so if Suns are really trying to do something, they have may have to accept a respectable deal of look else where.  A deal of Okafor, Goodwin, and Suns draft pick which will be in the low 20’s for Gasol is not a terrible deal because Gasol may make the pick mid 20’s.

Sun don’t have minutes for Goodwin because Green has been so good.  They also don’t really need a ton of young players.

If they resign Bledsoe, they are pretty much set at most positions and then  they have a nice bench.

 

PG Bledsoe/I Smith/Barbosa

SG Dragic/Green

SF Tucker/M. Morris

PF Frye/Mk Morris

C Len/Plumlee

 

 

I could see if Lakers were pushing for Minny pick or the Wiz pick

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

The Suns have eight players under contract for next year, two guys with non-guaranteed deals, and two of the players who are not (Eric Bledsoe and P.J. Tucker) are guys the team will certainly work to retain. They do have future first rounders owed to them from Minnesota (which may never truly vest as it is Top 13 this year and Top 12 in 2015 and 2016 before turning into a pair of second rounders if they cannot crack the top 9 in the West with Denver down, LA down, and New Orleans only now realizing a center might be useful then when will they), Washington (likely to transfer this year as Washington seems to be in good position to make the playoffs), and Indiana (certain to transfer this year). Let’s be frank, Phoenix is not going to want three mid-to-late first round picks this year. Do not get caught up in the narrative about the draft, and be honest about the possible players and how they could fit. The Suns have been an interesting team for me because they play a mostly inverted style offensively. It is similar to what Doug Collins did with the Sixers a couple years back, but with better wing shooters and a lesser defense. Bledsoe, Barbosa, Smith, and Goodwin are not shooters. Bledsoe is better than he used to be, but his value is based on getting into the paint. While Plumlee and to a lesser extent Len hang around the rim, the others on the floor can let it fly. Channing Frye has been great on threes and long twos. Marcus Morris has been solid from distance. Markieff Morris has decent but not been great from behind the arc, but has been really good a step inside it. He offers spacing. Gerald Green has bounced back from a bad year and has been a tremendous shooter (someone needs to explain how D.J. Augustin and Gerald Green both struggled in Indiana yet bounced back they way they have). P.J. Tucker has been good at 40 percent from three. Dragic has been out of his mind with this kind of spacing, and he has been knocking them in when off the ball. The team spacing is allowing aiding guards to finish at a high rate in the paint. They also crash the glass well for a team reasonably well for a team that launches as many threes as they do. Ultimately, their problem is that while teams find it difficult to defend teams that pull the wings and big men away as well as Phoenix does during the regular season, teams get two weeks to work to win 4 out of 7 in the playoffs with only them to think about. With the roster they have, I think well-coached, veteran teams figure it out.

I really like the fit of Pau with them. He can hit a mid-range shot, operate well out of the pick and roll, his passing acumen would be wonderful with the spacing the Suns have, and is the kind of guy who can help generate easy baskets for himself and others when the shots from deep are not falling. You cannot kick it into Miles Plumlee in the post and expect the defense to change shape or have him catch the pass off a pick and roll and hit a teammate cutting the hoop as his man reacts to the initial pass. If all it costs them are a few picks who likely will not be able to become better options than the young players the Suns already have in the fold and an injured player, then what is the problem? Yes, it is possible the Lakers can get a quality guard in the 20s, but will that guard ever develop behind Bledsoe and Dragic? If a Suns fan is ready to hand the big money over to Bledsoe, then they have to also be willing to accept the fact that there will not be many minutes for a young guard to flourish behind. I also do not see any near term option who can be better than Pau (assuming they are able to keep him).

For the Lakers, the problem is that skilled big men do not grow on trees. Maybe they have a 20-30 percent chance at a top three pick, and let us say they hit on that chance. If they land Parker or Wiggins, they still need a frontcourt. Greg Monroe is an RFA, so Detroit is probably going to match any offer. Other than Smith and Jennings, they do not have big contracts on the books. The other options are Spencer Hawes and Marcin Gortat, both of whom are probably headed for similar paydays and neither is the player of Pau. Joel Embiid is a post-Kobe prospect. He is not greatly helping a team wanting to win anytime soon. He is too thin, raw, and inexperienced. The adjustment period is going to be rough. Now, the potential is there to be great down the line, but the team has to live with that period of growth. They have to live with the guaranteed rawness, and the lack of guarantee with the potential. In other words, they still need a starting center. The only other guy in this draft with possible center size and a current skillset that I think makes for intrigue is Johnny O’Bryant. To see him next to WCS, Dakari Johnson, Moses Kingsley, and Bobby Portis, he did not look smaller. What that means in terms of actual height and length, I do not know. It could mean the Kentucky and Arkansas players are smaller than their listed size. That tends to be the case. The only thing is that I thought the same thing of Nikola Vucevic a couple years ago when USC never changed his height from his freshman to junior years even though he grew. The fact that he was center-sized mattered, and it matters for O’Bryant. I like Adreian Payne, but as a 4. If I am staring at a West with Marc Gasol, Bogut, Duncan, Howard, Kanter/Favors, Pekovic, and Cousins, I do not want to be playing 4s as centers (look at New Orleans). Even if the perfect storm hits and the Lakers go into next season with a new coach, Kobe, Parker, and Melo on their roster, are they in better shape than San Antonio, OKC, Memphis, and the like? I do not think so. I still prefer the picture where Pau is in the middle. Letting this season go does not mean they should let next year go.

[sheltwon3Participant]

 I agreed with all your reasoning until the end where you was like Lakers should keep Gasol.  Gasol is in his 30’s and is on the decline for the team the Lakers are trying to build.  His stock is actually high.  It will probably not get any higher.  This move for the Lakers could help them rebuild by getting worst to get better.  Also Lakers are said to be really trying to get Love in a year or two and he will be the new face of Lakers if they can pull that off.   Embid would actually work well with Love since Love likes to shoot long jumpers and is more physical.

 

Also Kobe may play past 2 years if he can get bigs to take pressure off him.

Gasol is not the long term answer but he would work perfectly for the Suns for the short and long term since Len is taking a while to develop.

Suns do not need or could use all their draft picks.  They would probably trade some of them off anyway so it would actually work in their favor if they can get Gasol for players they have no use for.

 

 

 

[sheltwon3Participant]

 I agreed with all your reasoning until the end where you was like Lakers should keep Gasol.  Gasol is in his 30’s and is on the decline for the team the Lakers are trying to build.  His stock is actually high.  It will probably not get any higher.  This move for the Lakers could help them rebuild by getting worst to get better.  Also Lakers are said to be really trying to get Love in a year or two and he will be the new face of Lakers if they can pull that off.   Embid would actually work well with Love since Love likes to shoot long jumpers and is more physical.

 

Also Kobe may play past 2 years if he can get bigs to take pressure off him.

Gasol is not the long term answer but he would work perfectly for the Suns for the short and long term since Len is taking a while to develop.

Suns do not need or could use all their draft picks.  They would probably trade some of them off anyway so it would actually work in their favor if they can get Gasol for players they have no use for.

 

 

 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

The Suns have eight players under contract for next year, two guys with non-guaranteed deals, and two of the players who are not (Eric Bledsoe and P.J. Tucker) are guys the team will certainly work to retain. They do have future first rounders owed to them from Minnesota (which may never truly vest as it is Top 13 this year and Top 12 in 2015 and 2016 before turning into a pair of second rounders if they cannot crack the top 9 in the West with Denver down, LA down, and New Orleans only now realizing a center might be useful then when will they), Washington (likely to transfer this year as Washington seems to be in good position to make the playoffs), and Indiana (certain to transfer this year). Let’s be frank, Phoenix is not going to want three mid-to-late first round picks this year. Do not get caught up in the narrative about the draft, and be honest about the possible players and how they could fit. The Suns have been an interesting team for me because they play a mostly inverted style offensively. It is similar to what Doug Collins did with the Sixers a couple years back, but with better wing shooters and a lesser defense. Bledsoe, Barbosa, Smith, and Goodwin are not shooters. Bledsoe is better than he used to be, but his value is based on getting into the paint. While Plumlee and to a lesser extent Len hang around the rim, the others on the floor can let it fly. Channing Frye has been great on threes and long twos. Marcus Morris has been solid from distance. Markieff Morris has decent but not been great from behind the arc, but has been really good a step inside it. He offers spacing. Gerald Green has bounced back from a bad year and has been a tremendous shooter (someone needs to explain how D.J. Augustin and Gerald Green both struggled in Indiana yet bounced back they way they have). P.J. Tucker has been good at 40 percent from three. Dragic has been out of his mind with this kind of spacing, and he has been knocking them in when off the ball. The team spacing is allowing aiding guards to finish at a high rate in the paint. They also crash the glass well for a team reasonably well for a team that launches as many threes as they do. Ultimately, their problem is that while teams find it difficult to defend teams that pull the wings and big men away as well as Phoenix does during the regular season, teams get two weeks to work to win 4 out of 7 in the playoffs with only them to think about. With the roster they have, I think well-coached, veteran teams figure it out.

I really like the fit of Pau with them. He can hit a mid-range shot, operate well out of the pick and roll, his passing acumen would be wonderful with the spacing the Suns have, and is the kind of guy who can help generate easy baskets for himself and others when the shots from deep are not falling. You cannot kick it into Miles Plumlee in the post and expect the defense to change shape or have him catch the pass off a pick and roll and hit a teammate cutting the hoop as his man reacts to the initial pass. If all it costs them are a few picks who likely will not be able to become better options than the young players the Suns already have in the fold and an injured player, then what is the problem? Yes, it is possible the Lakers can get a quality guard in the 20s, but will that guard ever develop behind Bledsoe and Dragic? If a Suns fan is ready to hand the big money over to Bledsoe, then they have to also be willing to accept the fact that there will not be many minutes for a young guard to flourish behind. I also do not see any near term option who can be better than Pau (assuming they are able to keep him).

For the Lakers, the problem is that skilled big men do not grow on trees. Maybe they have a 20-30 percent chance at a top three pick, and let us say they hit on that chance. If they land Parker or Wiggins, they still need a frontcourt. Greg Monroe is an RFA, so Detroit is probably going to match any offer. Other than Smith and Jennings, they do not have big contracts on the books. The other options are Spencer Hawes and Marcin Gortat, both of whom are probably headed for similar paydays and neither is the player of Pau. Joel Embiid is a post-Kobe prospect. He is not greatly helping a team wanting to win anytime soon. He is too thin, raw, and inexperienced. The adjustment period is going to be rough. Now, the potential is there to be great down the line, but the team has to live with that period of growth. They have to live with the guaranteed rawness, and the lack of guarantee with the potential. In other words, they still need a starting center. The only other guy in this draft with possible center size and a current skillset that I think makes for intrigue is Johnny O’Bryant. To see him next to WCS, Dakari Johnson, Moses Kingsley, and Bobby Portis, he did not look smaller. What that means in terms of actual height and length, I do not know. It could mean the Kentucky and Arkansas players are smaller than their listed size. That tends to be the case. The only thing is that I thought the same thing of Nikola Vucevic a couple years ago when USC never changed his height from his freshman to junior years even though he grew. The fact that he was center-sized mattered, and it matters for O’Bryant. I like Adreian Payne, but as a 4. If I am staring at a West with Marc Gasol, Bogut, Duncan, Howard, Kanter/Favors, Pekovic, and Cousins, I do not want to be playing 4s as centers (look at New Orleans). Even if the perfect storm hits and the Lakers go into next season with a new coach, Kobe, Parker, and Melo on their roster, are they in better shape than San Antonio, OKC, Memphis, and the like? I do not think so. I still prefer the picture where Pau is in the middle. Letting this season go does not mean they should let next year go.

[HitsterParticipant]

 If the Suns did part with Goodwin, they would surely only offer the lowest of their possible first rounders this year.

The Lakers could be anywhere between about 2 and 8 in the lottery standings if we assume that the Bucks will likely finish with the worse record and that the other spots are the teams below NY and NOP in the respective Conferences. If the Lakers do trade Gasol they will likely get worse and with Utah having been better with Burke in the team and the Celtics having Rondo back then the Lakers could be well in line for a shot at lottery pick. 

A lot would depend on whether Kobe returns as he would by default help the Lakers improve but the Lakers could keep Kobe ticking over and not play him huge minutes.

 

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 If the Suns did part with Goodwin, they would surely only offer the lowest of their possible first rounders this year.

The Lakers could be anywhere between about 2 and 8 in the lottery standings if we assume that the Bucks will likely finish with the worse record and that the other spots are the teams below NY and NOP in the respective Conferences. If the Lakers do trade Gasol they will likely get worse and with Utah having been better with Burke in the team and the Celtics having Rondo back then the Lakers could be well in line for a shot at lottery pick. 

A lot would depend on whether Kobe returns as he would by default help the Lakers improve but the Lakers could keep Kobe ticking over and not play him huge minutes.

 

 

[King CaluchaParticipant]

"For the Lakers, the problem is that skilled big men do not grow on trees"

This sentence summarizes the entire issue… and this is exactly why the Lakers are asking for another asset in return besides Okafor’s contract.

[King CaluchaParticipant]

"For the Lakers, the problem is that skilled big men do not grow on trees"

This sentence summarizes the entire issue… and this is exactly why the Lakers are asking for another asset in return besides Okafor’s contract.

[irving10Participant]

 When I heard about this I was thinking the lakers would be so happy with the season thee having to get rid of Gasol.

The lakers just need to start fresh. Getting rid of Gasol is one step towards this. But more importantly this will help them in the long run. Go lakers!

[irving10Participant]

 When I heard about this I was thinking the lakers would be so happy with the season thee having to get rid of Gasol.

The lakers just need to start fresh. Getting rid of Gasol is one step towards this. But more importantly this will help them in the long run. Go lakers!

[Author]

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