[Andv1 WaitingParticipant]

 Just carrying on this topic a little as I am interested to see if people think Bens Jumper is that broken or won’t improve to at least a semi respectable level(I think 2 more seasons will tell us if he will improve this or not):

Now that it has been a couple of seasons for Ingram and Simmons, who would people build around and why?

and

If you had to choose between Simmons and Lonzo Ball(assuming he is 100%  healthy) who would you build around and who do people think has the higher potential/Ceiling?

[HobbyOGParticipant]

 They said the same about Lebron, Kidd, Magic, etc. Even though Magic wasn’t a great shooter he improved..IF he has a good work ethic his jump shot will come. Presistant, repeption and time…I think he’ll be ok. 

I would take Ben over Zo…I think Ben has more fight in him and can develop into a really good leader, Zo seems very quiet and reserved on the court, lacks fire and passion. I saw a couple times were Ben was about to scuffle with players standing up for his teammates and I’ve seen Zo walk away from incidents when his teammates were in scuffles..You need your PG to want to back the team. 

 

 

[JDB12Participant]

 I agree with you, but being quiet and reserved isn’t always bad… Brandon Roy was a lot like that and had he stayed healthy I think he would have had a career that rivaled DWade. Even though he was quiet Roy clearly still had that killer instinct and dog in him. Zo’s rookie season was very interesting and underwhelming. Despite always being one of those quieter players, Zo looked like he had that killer instinct and quiet fire in him in HS and college, but seemed to lack that his rookie season. And I’m not just saying since he was statistically successful in HS and college it appeared that way, you could actually just see he lacked something his rookie season. Maybe it was just confidence, idk. But he needs that fire if he wants to keep up with Simmons and live up to the hype he’s had all his life.

[vulture711Participant]

 Started with a hella better jumper than Big Ben – and they knew which hand they should be using

[vulture711Participant]

From the free throw line – Magic shot 81%, LBJ 75%. Kidd 70%, Jordan 85%

All these guys are used as examples – and they all improved from 3 as their careers moved on – but 3’s are an extension of free throws and all the above were significantly better then Simmons 56% – which is terrible for a guy who drives that much.  He needs to rebuild that whole elbow out lefty jumper – not just work on it, or shoot a few more.  I still think he’d be better off using his natural right hand like he finishes most drives

 

  

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 Lebron and Kidd were light years ahead of Simmons shooting the ball at the same age. While magic didn’t shoot 3s for most of his career (because not that many players did in his era) he was at least a threat from mid-range and over 80% from the line for the majority of his career. While all of those guys greatly improved as shooters throughout their careers, they were starting from a much higher level floor than Simmons is. 

Since I’ve already shared my thoughts about Simmons jumper and his ability to improve it in the previous thread, I’m not going to get into it too deep here. However, even if Simmons never really develops a jumper (which I kind of doubt he will) I’d still prefer to build around him over Lonzo. With his size, athleticism, handle and vision I think he just has the ability to impact the game in more ways on both ends of the floor. Plus, I have my own separate concerns about Lonzo’s shooting as well.

 

[esperanzafleet69Participant]

 while kidd managed to hit 40% a couple times from 3, he was a horrendous shooter from downtown starting out. his midrange game wasnt much better at simmons age or the next ~ 3-4 years after. then was streaky his entire career. kidd isnt a light years better shooter than anyone who’s ever been in the league, but he knew how to play to his strengths.. much like simmons does.

as far as the lonzo or lebron comparisons, lebron is considered in my book one of the goats alongside michael and magic. lets see where lonzo/simmons’ careers go.

 

 

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

While I’m by no means saying Kidd was a “good” shooter when he came into the nba, he was at least a capable one. Even though his percentages weren’t good he at least showed a willingness to come off a screen and pull up for a mid-range jumper or shoot a 3 if left open. You couldn’t just completely ignore him as a threat to shoot it the way you can with Simmons. And he improved pretty steadily throughout his career. I guess that’s what I mean when I say he was light years ahead of Simmons as far as shooting the ball. Simmons total avoidance of the jump shot is probably more reminiscent of someone like rondo, except to an even more extreme degree. Right now, it’s not even necessarily that he’s a bad shooter, he’s just a non-shooter period.

[vulture711Participant]

 All those guys were pretty good free throw shooters who developed the 3 ball – even if it was a set shot.  Ben’s J is terrible, his 3 point % unlike the other guys in the 25-30% range – was ZERO – and free throws 56%

Thats DeAndre Jordan bad

 

[sweaterflexParticipant]

 I’m very bullish on Simmons’ career and think he will be a top 10 player for most of his career, but unless he changes his shooting hand, I highly doubt his jumpshot develops. He has never attempted 3s at any volume, and his FT% is not great. For reference

Rookie FT% by "non-shooters" who developed

Magic Johnson- 81%

Jason Kidd- 70%

LeBron- 75%

Shawn Marion- 85%

Kawhi Leonard- 77%

Simmons- 56%

Simmons will impact the game as an elite playmaker and defender who can finish around the rim (something like a 6’10 Rondo/Rubio), but will probably never be the primary scorer on a championship level team.

I doubt Lonzo ever develops a mid-range game w/o changing his form, but I would be slightly more optimistic about his 3 point shooting due to his high volume of attempts.

As a side not, improving from a bad passer to a good passer is more likely than developing from a non-shooter in to a passable shooter, as seen in this piece.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[vulture711Participant]

 Spot on – he needs a lot more then getting up more reps which is what, I think in his head, is all he needs

He should have been there with Fultz this summer – and Jason Tatum, working with that same guy

 

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 Without a jump shot, Ben Simmons’ upside will be limited.  

He could be a guy who kills it during the regular season but flames out in the playoffs.

 

 

 

[mowestenParticipant]

It’s also much harder to continue to scoring the way Simmons is scoring right now without a consistent jumper as you age as a player. When he is 32, it is incredibly doubtful he’s going to average 25 points per game shooting layups and free throws.

He has a unique game with a sky-is-the-limit potential. If he works hard, he could be one of the best players of his generation. If he doesn’t consistently make shots from outside five feet, his career is going to plateau at all-star.

He’s fun to watch, he’s one of my favorite players in the league right now, but that’s just reality. There’s not many non centers who ascended to all-time great status shooting 50 % at the free throw line.

 

 

 

[HobbyOGParticipant]

 Geek Freek avg 26 list past season and still can’t shoot. Ben plays PG and he’s 6’8ish..Can easisly score in the post..also if you have the right pieces around him they’ll contend for a title. 

[Dog_ShammdogParticipant]

I think he should be shooting with his right hand. This sounds crazy but the video I’ve seen of his right handed shooting stroke is so much smoother and fundamentally sound than his lefty jumper. He was a natural right hander but his dad made him shoot with his left to work on his coordination, but he wound up sticking with it and here we are today. He finishes and passes like a right hander but shoots his jumper with his left and it is mechanical and ugly – I wouldn’t have any confidence or faith in that jumper either. 

Idk if he thinks its too late to go back or what, but I think he should get with Drew Hanlen and see if he can’t make the switch back bc he has nothing to lose when he isn’t even willing to shoot a jumper to begin with. 

 

 

[BeastMode716Participant]

Saric, Covington & Reddick in that starting line up & they all shoot 3’s & according to rumors Fultz is looking back to normal so we at least have to assume Fultz will be shooting too

Where Simmons must improve is finishing around the Rim & little bunnies & jump hooks from 12 feet & In & his Free Throws need to get up around high 60’s low 70’s %%% – just like Magic did – Simmons will Avg 20 ppg this season just by uping his FT% by 10 % points & hitting One or Two more buckets per game 

I have not seen a Rookie run an offense that well since Magic – remember Phila had the #1 ranked Starting 5 unit Most of the season (I don’t know if they finished #1) & they had NEVER played together before last year – that is Stunning! 

& 3 members of their starting 5 were 21 (Simmons) & two 23 y/o’s (Embiid & Saric) – it was their bench that was hurting them & by the end of the year they added Belinelli, Ilyasova & Fultz to their 2nd team & they were just Crushing teams 

The Celtics – a playoff tested, rugged #1 ranked Defensive Unit was the ONLY team in the NBA that gave Simmons even a Little bit of trouble last season but b/c Phila played Boston last that seems to be all people remember 

I’ watched the NBA since the 1970’s – I played high schoo & college ball (Div 1) & I coached for years – trust me when I tell you this – that Phila starting 5 is going to be a Nightmare for Years to come & Simmons & Embiid will make a Massive Jump in skill level this season (Both have played Less than 100 NBA games & they are Dominating – that just does NOT happen very often)

I’m a Life Long Lakers fan & I’m still on a Lebron high but as much as I like Lonzo & Ingram neither is in Simmos league – there is Not a single GM who would take Lonzo & Ingram TOGETHER over Simmons & that Includes the Lakers GM 

 

 

 

 

 

[Author]

Posts