[JCliff24Participant]

According to Hoopshype.com Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert wants to draft Andrew Wiggins this year (which I personally think is a better option than another scorer who can’t play defense) but Front Office wants Parker. Last year Dan Gilbert wanted to draft Victor Oladipo but Mike Brown and Front Office lobbied for Anthony Bennett.

His actions are questionable but as far as drafting goes, does he deserve a little bit less ridicule than he gets as an owner?

[Scott42444Participant]

Where did you see/read/hear about Gilbert being high on Oladipo but the front office and coaching staff being sold on Bennett?  That doesn’t even make sense.  Why would Mike Brown want to draft a developmental teenager, who would be required to play out of position and probably not help the team win many games for a couple years when his JOB is to win as many games NOW as he possibly could?  That has classic Gilbert written all over it.  Maybe, just MAYBE the front office looked at Bennett’s long term potential.  But, they were under a mandate to win NOW.  So taking a guy who needed so much work opposed to a guy like Oladipo (who by almost every single draft "expert" and of the record scout was much closer to contributing to NBA wins coming out of college than Bennett) would go against that mandate.  I have never once heard that.

Dan Gilbert should hire basketball people, who spend every minute of their working day (and night) studying, thinking about, and discussing basketball.  Then, he should tell them what he wants out of them.  If he wants an exciting team that doesn’t have to win as long as they are popular…great.  If he doesn’t care about excitement and just want wins (like the Rose-less Bulls or Toronto, or heck even the Spurs for years) he should tell them that.  Then, he needs to get OUT OF THE WAY and let the people who have learned about NBA basketball for decades do their jobs.  If he doesn’t like the results, than he should fire them and bring someone else in (as he did).  But, similar to James Dolan of the Knicks, STAY OUT OF THE BASKETBALL STUFF.  I am anxiously anticipating James Dolan trying to force Phil Jackson to give Carmelo a max contract (which I believe Phil is adamantly against) and I would love to see what happens if Phil is told what to do when his reputation is on the line.  Because he should, and probably will, go directly to the media and say that he was forced by a meddling owner to offer a contract that is against his plan and will significantly impact his ability to put together a contender.  The same goes for Dan Gilbert.  He is a BIG part of the problem in Cleveland.  If we are going by rumors, which is what started your original post, he is the #1 reason why Lebron won’t go back to Cleveland.  Because that guy burned too many bridges and acted like a complete idiot when Lebron left.  

 

[Scott42444Participant]

Where did you see/read/hear about Gilbert being high on Oladipo but the front office and coaching staff being sold on Bennett?  That doesn’t even make sense.  Why would Mike Brown want to draft a developmental teenager, who would be required to play out of position and probably not help the team win many games for a couple years when his JOB is to win as many games NOW as he possibly could?  That has classic Gilbert written all over it.  Maybe, just MAYBE the front office looked at Bennett’s long term potential.  But, they were under a mandate to win NOW.  So taking a guy who needed so much work opposed to a guy like Oladipo (who by almost every single draft "expert" and of the record scout was much closer to contributing to NBA wins coming out of college than Bennett) would go against that mandate.  I have never once heard that.

Dan Gilbert should hire basketball people, who spend every minute of their working day (and night) studying, thinking about, and discussing basketball.  Then, he should tell them what he wants out of them.  If he wants an exciting team that doesn’t have to win as long as they are popular…great.  If he doesn’t care about excitement and just want wins (like the Rose-less Bulls or Toronto, or heck even the Spurs for years) he should tell them that.  Then, he needs to get OUT OF THE WAY and let the people who have learned about NBA basketball for decades do their jobs.  If he doesn’t like the results, than he should fire them and bring someone else in (as he did).  But, similar to James Dolan of the Knicks, STAY OUT OF THE BASKETBALL STUFF.  I am anxiously anticipating James Dolan trying to force Phil Jackson to give Carmelo a max contract (which I believe Phil is adamantly against) and I would love to see what happens if Phil is told what to do when his reputation is on the line.  Because he should, and probably will, go directly to the media and say that he was forced by a meddling owner to offer a contract that is against his plan and will significantly impact his ability to put together a contender.  The same goes for Dan Gilbert.  He is a BIG part of the problem in Cleveland.  If we are going by rumors, which is what started your original post, he is the #1 reason why Lebron won’t go back to Cleveland.  Because that guy burned too many bridges and acted like a complete idiot when Lebron left.  

 

[tuck243Participant]

Especially since they just drafted Waiters the year before…   Just doesn’t make sense to me… Very rarely you see a team take the same position the very next year and do well…   Ask the Wolves and Hawks how that worked out for them…

 

[tuck243Participant]

Especially since they just drafted Waiters the year before…   Just doesn’t make sense to me… Very rarely you see a team take the same position the very next year and do well…   Ask the Wolves and Hawks how that worked out for them…

 

[kobyzParticipant]

Oladipo to the Cavs last year made sense, he was perfect fit next to Irving and Waiters prototype of a sixth man role…

[kobyzParticipant]

Oladipo to the Cavs last year made sense, he was perfect fit next to Irving and Waiters prototype of a sixth man role…

[tuck243Participant]

They didn’t expect their 4th pick of the draft to be better as a 6th man…  And with that said, if Bennett was a ‘little’ respectable then this wouldn’t even be a discussion…  You don’t draft players that high to be the 6th man of your team…   And we still wouldn’t know if that would have worked out for them because what happens in the 4th QT?  Who do you sit? 

[tuck243Participant]

They didn’t expect their 4th pick of the draft to be better as a 6th man…  And with that said, if Bennett was a ‘little’ respectable then this wouldn’t even be a discussion…  You don’t draft players that high to be the 6th man of your team…   And we still wouldn’t know if that would have worked out for them because what happens in the 4th QT?  Who do you sit? 

[WhodunitParticipant]

I just watched a espn video where Chad Ford says the same thing. Gilbert wanted Oladipo last year but his front office choose Bennett. Gilbert wants Wiggins but his Front Office wants Parker. Chad Fords direct words, i would say its probably true….. Unless, Gilbert leaked those reports himself in order to gain public credibility from the fans.

[WhodunitParticipant]

I just watched a espn video where Chad Ford says the same thing. Gilbert wanted Oladipo last year but his front office choose Bennett. Gilbert wants Wiggins but his Front Office wants Parker. Chad Fords direct words, i would say its probably true….. Unless, Gilbert leaked those reports himself in order to gain public credibility from the fans.

[tuck243Participant]

it was nothing wrong with Embiid and the workout went well…  Just 2 weeks ago…  Do you still want to believe Chad (or his sources)?  Especially when you seen Dan Gilbert track record??  Don’t be gullible sir

[tuck243Participant]

it was nothing wrong with Embiid and the workout went well…  Just 2 weeks ago…  Do you still want to believe Chad (or his sources)?  Especially when you seen Dan Gilbert track record??  Don’t be gullible sir

[WhodunitParticipant]

 I cant wait for the Draft to get here soon enough. Im tired of all these rumors and reports, its making my head explode. I dont trust any of these guys with Sources. Adrian Woj is probably the only guy right now who i’d believe if he put a report out. And that too at something like 65% cause im sure he gets manipulated to put out false reports too or those deals dont go thru for whatever reason.

Sheit, we could have launched a website ourselves and put out better rumors and trade scenarios. Its not hard to do, once your name is out there every fan is looking to see what u’ve got to say and then talk about it as if its actually gonna happen.

[WhodunitParticipant]

 I cant wait for the Draft to get here soon enough. Im tired of all these rumors and reports, its making my head explode. I dont trust any of these guys with Sources. Adrian Woj is probably the only guy right now who i’d believe if he put a report out. And that too at something like 65% cause im sure he gets manipulated to put out false reports too or those deals dont go thru for whatever reason.

Sheit, we could have launched a website ourselves and put out better rumors and trade scenarios. Its not hard to do, once your name is out there every fan is looking to see what u’ve got to say and then talk about it as if its actually gonna happen.

[220Participant]

 I’m sorry, but this would be absolutely ridiculous if it was true. At some point if the owner has decided who he wants yet no one agrees with him he can overrule or fire them easily.

[220Participant]

 I’m sorry, but this would be absolutely ridiculous if it was true. At some point if the owner has decided who he wants yet no one agrees with him he can overrule or fire them easily.

[JCliff24Participant]

Well lets see, I started off the post with "According to Hoopshype.com" so that might provide some insight. The information is coming from Chad Ford’s Insider.

[JCliff24Participant]

Well lets see, I started off the post with "According to Hoopshype.com" so that might provide some insight. The information is coming from Chad Ford’s Insider.

[tuck243Participant]

A radio personality said that the Cavs were not going to draft Embiid because he had a huge medical issue…  Chad came out and DENOUNCED that…  Saying he spoke with his Cavs sources and that wasn’t the case…  A week later…  Who was right?  I’m not going to believe something that I feel like doesn’t make sense, especially if it’s coming from sources who was just wrong a week ago… 

[tuck243Participant]

A radio personality said that the Cavs were not going to draft Embiid because he had a huge medical issue…  Chad came out and DENOUNCED that…  Saying he spoke with his Cavs sources and that wasn’t the case…  A week later…  Who was right?  I’m not going to believe something that I feel like doesn’t make sense, especially if it’s coming from sources who was just wrong a week ago… 

[Scott42444Participant]

You are correct about that.  I deleted a section (because my posts are always WAAAY too long) where I discussed what other guys on this thread have been saying that there is so much information and disinformation that I don’t believe just one source any longer.  I forgot that I deleted the part about Chad Ford being somewhat unreliable.  Like, for example, there is a report from New York that says that Derrick Rose’s camp told HIM publicly that Rose want Love over Melo.  I have it on VERY good authority that is absolute B.S.  My very good authority is actually someone who covers the Bulls locally and is very well respected.  When he says Rose’s camp NEVER said anything like that.  Now, when it’s a newspaper writer in New York saying they have the scoop on what Derrick Rose is thinking versus a Chicago writer I start to call B.S.  Also, when it is in regards to a New York team losing a superstar, I think that there is reason to doubt it because there is a conflict of interest.  Especially with someone who has never proven to be linked to Derrick Rose, Reggie Rose, or B.J. Armstrong in the past.  Now, there is some credence to that rumor which is what I think this writer was basing him B.S. on because Derrick and K. Love have known each other and worked out in the off-season’s together for quite some time.  But that is how these rumors get made up.  People lately are trying to get the "scoop" before everyone else and they are writing rumors that have very little validity to them and taking the chance even if they are completely made up on the off chance they are true.

BTW, the truth is that Derrick Rose and his camp want TALENT on the Bulls roster more than anything.  Derrick is coming off of injuries and can’t do it all himself and wants superior talent on the team no matter who it is.  He doesn’t care about if that player gets 1/2 of the shots.  Rose needs some of the fan focus and defensive focus off of him.  Reggie Rose, Derrick’s brother (who does WAY too much talking for Derrick) has been outspoken in the past that Bulls management hasn’t surrounded Derrick with enough talent to win a title.  Now, that has mostly fallen on deaf ears because the guy has only played 50 games in 3 seasons but he HAS said that in the past.  So, when a source that I trust tells me that Derrick did NOT say anything about wanting Love over Melo, that all he wants is an upgrade to the roster anyway the Bulls can achieve it, I 100% believe it.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if Dan Gilbert DID leak information out after Bennett became a bust to save face.  Especially since he fired the GM and coaching staff from last year.  I just still don’t buy it.  I can maybe buy the front office being sold on Anthony Bennett, but I don’t think that Mike Brown would have been.  I think it’s more likely that Dan Gilbert said, "I like Oladipo!  Play him at the SF position because we don’t have a SF!"  and the front office and coaching staff decided that Oladipo was better suited to PG than to SF (which would have been ridiculous) so they took Bennett and talked Mike Brown into changing his offense to have 3 post players and 2 guards or something.  When Bennett was hurt early in the year, they decided not to bother changing the offense and A.B. never really fit into their schemes and Gilbert was screaming all year that Oladipo would have been better playing SF than Bennett, etc.  Not once factoring in the fact that Oladipo wouldn’t have had anywhere near the shots or playing time with Waiters and Irving already in the backcourt.  That guy needs to stop talking and throwing people under the bus constantly.

 

 

[Scott42444Participant]

You are correct about that.  I deleted a section (because my posts are always WAAAY too long) where I discussed what other guys on this thread have been saying that there is so much information and disinformation that I don’t believe just one source any longer.  I forgot that I deleted the part about Chad Ford being somewhat unreliable.  Like, for example, there is a report from New York that says that Derrick Rose’s camp told HIM publicly that Rose want Love over Melo.  I have it on VERY good authority that is absolute B.S.  My very good authority is actually someone who covers the Bulls locally and is very well respected.  When he says Rose’s camp NEVER said anything like that.  Now, when it’s a newspaper writer in New York saying they have the scoop on what Derrick Rose is thinking versus a Chicago writer I start to call B.S.  Also, when it is in regards to a New York team losing a superstar, I think that there is reason to doubt it because there is a conflict of interest.  Especially with someone who has never proven to be linked to Derrick Rose, Reggie Rose, or B.J. Armstrong in the past.  Now, there is some credence to that rumor which is what I think this writer was basing him B.S. on because Derrick and K. Love have known each other and worked out in the off-season’s together for quite some time.  But that is how these rumors get made up.  People lately are trying to get the "scoop" before everyone else and they are writing rumors that have very little validity to them and taking the chance even if they are completely made up on the off chance they are true.

BTW, the truth is that Derrick Rose and his camp want TALENT on the Bulls roster more than anything.  Derrick is coming off of injuries and can’t do it all himself and wants superior talent on the team no matter who it is.  He doesn’t care about if that player gets 1/2 of the shots.  Rose needs some of the fan focus and defensive focus off of him.  Reggie Rose, Derrick’s brother (who does WAY too much talking for Derrick) has been outspoken in the past that Bulls management hasn’t surrounded Derrick with enough talent to win a title.  Now, that has mostly fallen on deaf ears because the guy has only played 50 games in 3 seasons but he HAS said that in the past.  So, when a source that I trust tells me that Derrick did NOT say anything about wanting Love over Melo, that all he wants is an upgrade to the roster anyway the Bulls can achieve it, I 100% believe it.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if Dan Gilbert DID leak information out after Bennett became a bust to save face.  Especially since he fired the GM and coaching staff from last year.  I just still don’t buy it.  I can maybe buy the front office being sold on Anthony Bennett, but I don’t think that Mike Brown would have been.  I think it’s more likely that Dan Gilbert said, "I like Oladipo!  Play him at the SF position because we don’t have a SF!"  and the front office and coaching staff decided that Oladipo was better suited to PG than to SF (which would have been ridiculous) so they took Bennett and talked Mike Brown into changing his offense to have 3 post players and 2 guards or something.  When Bennett was hurt early in the year, they decided not to bother changing the offense and A.B. never really fit into their schemes and Gilbert was screaming all year that Oladipo would have been better playing SF than Bennett, etc.  Not once factoring in the fact that Oladipo wouldn’t have had anywhere near the shots or playing time with Waiters and Irving already in the backcourt.  That guy needs to stop talking and throwing people under the bus constantly.

 

 

[WhodunitParticipant]

 If i were Gilbert i’d have opted for Oladipo and Wiggins now. But Thats just me as a fan, I dont have employees who I allegedly trust and believe in. Owners should just sign the checks, not be seen or heard from in the news.

Mark Cuban is the only exception to that rule, the only one in all North American Sports, Because he’s an outside the box thinker and is wildly entertaining.

Now if GIlbert were less involved and let the "smart" Basketball people do the decision making he would never have written the letter after LBJ left. He wouldn’t be seen everywhere and thereby accumulate a negative image based on the simple annoying fact that we see him and hear him all the time. The Cavs probably wouldn’t have re-hired Mike Brown again last year. He probably wouldn’t have a bunch of YES!-men surrounding him telling him everything he wants to hear because they know thats the only way they keep their job and advance.

But at the end of the day, I can’t front, I’d probably be 10x worse than Gilbert as far as being a Billionaire who meddles in every aspect of my Dream Toy, my NBA team.

[WhodunitParticipant]

 If i were Gilbert i’d have opted for Oladipo and Wiggins now. But Thats just me as a fan, I dont have employees who I allegedly trust and believe in. Owners should just sign the checks, not be seen or heard from in the news.

Mark Cuban is the only exception to that rule, the only one in all North American Sports, Because he’s an outside the box thinker and is wildly entertaining.

Now if GIlbert were less involved and let the "smart" Basketball people do the decision making he would never have written the letter after LBJ left. He wouldn’t be seen everywhere and thereby accumulate a negative image based on the simple annoying fact that we see him and hear him all the time. The Cavs probably wouldn’t have re-hired Mike Brown again last year. He probably wouldn’t have a bunch of YES!-men surrounding him telling him everything he wants to hear because they know thats the only way they keep their job and advance.

But at the end of the day, I can’t front, I’d probably be 10x worse than Gilbert as far as being a Billionaire who meddles in every aspect of my Dream Toy, my NBA team.

[tidhoParticipant]

Not sure where all the hindsight is coming from.  Here’s what I do know….

Gilbert did love Oladipo last year, at least prior to winning the lottery.  There was a local reporter that flew with Gilbert and son to the draft lottery.  On the way there, when Cleveland was still picking 4th (or whatever) Gilbert absolutely raved about Oladipo.  I never saw a report after the lottery about any preferences.

Coach Brown picking Bennett is a popular rumor.  That never made sense to me – defensive coach wanting the guy who didn’t play defense – but its been out there a while.  More reaslistically that pick had everything to do with the organization deciding to swing for the fences when no legitimate prospects were available.

[tidhoParticipant]

Not sure where all the hindsight is coming from.  Here’s what I do know….

Gilbert did love Oladipo last year, at least prior to winning the lottery.  There was a local reporter that flew with Gilbert and son to the draft lottery.  On the way there, when Cleveland was still picking 4th (or whatever) Gilbert absolutely raved about Oladipo.  I never saw a report after the lottery about any preferences.

Coach Brown picking Bennett is a popular rumor.  That never made sense to me – defensive coach wanting the guy who didn’t play defense – but its been out there a while.  More reaslistically that pick had everything to do with the organization deciding to swing for the fences when no legitimate prospects were available.

[[email protected]Participant]

it was in there post draft press conference.

I can’t find it on there site and don’t feel like looking it up on YouTube (I would imagine it is there), but paraphrasing what I remember Brown saying:

“I know I’m not the best offensive coach, so I would rather have players like Bennett, Kyrie, and Waiters who are scorers that I can teach what I’m known for good defense team and man defense.”

[[email protected]Participant]

it was in there post draft press conference.

I can’t find it on there site and don’t feel like looking it up on YouTube (I would imagine it is there), but paraphrasing what I remember Brown saying:

“I know I’m not the best offensive coach, so I would rather have players like Bennett, Kyrie, and Waiters who are scorers that I can teach what I’m known for good defense team and man defense.”

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 I’m sure if anyone in the Cavs organization disagrees with Gilberts after the fact, self proclaimed stance that he wanted Oladipo at the time… they would lose their job.  Dan Gilbert should not get any credit… the owners that get credit are the ones that get out of the way and let the pros do their job… they just write the checks.  Dan Gilbert is also the reason why we probably will never see Lebron James in a Cavs jersey again…. 

Give Dan Gilbert more credit…. lol…..  

 

[Scott42444Participant]

I don’t know why you got a bunch of neg’s but I agree with you.  The best owners are the ones you don’t even know.  Seriously, the talk of the playoffs was Donald Sterling and his ridiculous and famous racist stance on life.  Then, the Spurs win and you don’t even know who the little gray haired man is that is standing next to the players and find out it’s the owner of the team.  Couldn’t pick him out of a lineup but he’s in charge of a world class organization.  

Dan Gilbert interjects himself into his team and if it weren’t for his son having a shamrock shoved up his a ss they would be one of the worst franchises in the league.  They have made so many mistakes it’s ridiculous and I have heard MORE times than not that Gilbert was part of (and a major voice in) the decision making process for quite a few of those mistakes.  Not to mention that ridiculous letter saying that the Cavs were going to win a championship before Lebron that sounded like a 7th grader talking trash on Facebook after his girlfriend dumped him.

 

[Scott42444Participant]

I don’t know why you got a bunch of neg’s but I agree with you.  The best owners are the ones you don’t even know.  Seriously, the talk of the playoffs was Donald Sterling and his ridiculous and famous racist stance on life.  Then, the Spurs win and you don’t even know who the little gray haired man is that is standing next to the players and find out it’s the owner of the team.  Couldn’t pick him out of a lineup but he’s in charge of a world class organization.  

Dan Gilbert interjects himself into his team and if it weren’t for his son having a shamrock shoved up his a ss they would be one of the worst franchises in the league.  They have made so many mistakes it’s ridiculous and I have heard MORE times than not that Gilbert was part of (and a major voice in) the decision making process for quite a few of those mistakes.  Not to mention that ridiculous letter saying that the Cavs were going to win a championship before Lebron that sounded like a 7th grader talking trash on Facebook after his girlfriend dumped him.

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 I’m sure if anyone in the Cavs organization disagrees with Gilberts after the fact, self proclaimed stance that he wanted Oladipo at the time… they would lose their job.  Dan Gilbert should not get any credit… the owners that get credit are the ones that get out of the way and let the pros do their job… they just write the checks.  Dan Gilbert is also the reason why we probably will never see Lebron James in a Cavs jersey again…. 

Give Dan Gilbert more credit…. lol…..  

 

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