[HobbyOGParticipant]

 Interested article I read today on ESPN. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24596521/looking-ahead-next-three-basketball-hall-fame-classes They mention first time candiates for 2019 are pretty weak, Shawn Marion being the highest pct to get in at 75.6%, later in the article it mentions Ben Wallace wating and his changes are 45.3% I think that’s BS and he deserves to get in. For his career:

 

• NBA champion (2004)
• 4× NBA All-Star (2003–2006)
• 3× All-NBA Second Team (2003, 2004, 2006)
• 2× All-NBA Third Team (2002, 2005)
• 4× NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2002, 2003, 2005, 2006)
• 5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2002–2006)
• NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2007)
• 2× NBA rebounding leader (2002, 2003)
• NBA blocks leader (2002)
• Detroit Pistons all-time leader in blocks

So do you think Wallace should be in the HOF? And do you think Shawn Marion deserve to be in the hall? 

 

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

First things first, Chris Webber needs to get in next year. 

Wallace and Marion are both borderline cases imo. Wallace has the 4 defensive POY awards and integral role he played on Detroit’s championship team working in his favor. He’s a nice story. Undrafted player out of nowhere who worked his ass off and found a niche in the league despite limited offensive ability. The case against is that his prime didn’t last very long and he fell off considerably after leaving Detroit. I think he gets in eventually, but it’ll be a close call. 

Marion I think will get in. One of the weirdest offensive games I’ve ever seen but somehow found a way to make it work. Routinely scored 20 ppg in his prime, while not have a single play called for him, while averaging over 10 boards, and one of the most versatile defenders in the league. He played a much bigger part in those seven seconds or less suns teams than he gets credit for, and it’s not a coincidence they were never the same after trading him. The crucial role he played on Dallas 2011 title team probably puts him over the top in my estimation. 

 

 

[The GoatParticipant]

 Wallace for sure. 4 X DPOY, 4 X ASG, NBA Champion. That alone is enough. The influence he had over the league during those golden Pistons years needs to be recognised. 

Marion is more of a borderline case to me. There have been plenty of all star level players overlooked. Only the ones, like Wallace, that influenced the league dramatically deserve the extra credit for it imo.  

 

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 Did someone like Maurice cheeks influence the league dramatically? How about Mitch Richmond? I think you could easily argue that Marion has as strong a case (if not stronger) than either of those guys and they are both in the hall? 

[220Participant]

 Mitch Richmond was pretty dominate in his prime and the best player on his team for the majority of his career. Shawn Marion was always a good player, but never at Richmond’s level of dominance.

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

Richmond was a guy that put up great numbers for bad teams for most of his career. Sure, he was the best player on his team for most of his career, but his teams were usually deep in the lottery. While he was a very solid, durable, and consistent player for sure, to say he was dominant within the overall landscape of the league at the time is debatable. If he had played on teams that were as talented as the suns teams that Marion did in his prime, he probably would have been more of a complementary player and his stats might not have been as good. I’m not necessarily saying he doesn’t deserve to be in, but I think Marion has an equally strong if not stronger case than him. 

[220Participant]

 That’s fair I’d just say Marion was just less impressive as a player. He was a great complementary piece on the D’Antoni Suns and the championship Mavs, but he couldn’t be counted on for more than that. If he had managed a few more championship victories perhaps he would be considered a more Hall of Fame player like a Dennis Rodman. Unlike Rodman who was an elite defender and rebounder, Marion wasn’t elite in any category 

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 Marion was a complementary piece on the mavs 2011 championship team for sure but to say he was merely a complementary piece on the suns severly underestimates his impact. While he might have been their third best player overall, he was putting up numbers that few players in the league were touching in those days and his versatility on offense and defense was a huge part of what made that whole system work in the first place. For example his 2006 stat line of 21.8 ppg 11.8 rpg 2 spg and 1.7 bpg is hardly what you’d associate with a role player. He was a perennial all-star in his prime and appeared on a couple all-nba teams (and should have made some all-defensive teams as well if you ask me). Marion was a legitimate star for Phoenix. He just got overlooked because he was playing with 2 other bigger stars.

[220Participant]

 When I say complementary player I don’t necessarily mean role player. Marion was the 3rd star on the Suns team with his strong rebounding, shot blocking, and unorthodox yet effective jump shot. Marion to me was complementary to the Suns because his game complemented what the team was doing. When Marion left Phoenix to go to Miami it quickly became apparent that much of his success was due to the system rather than his skills. Marion was a good player on a D’Antoni led team that made good players put up great numbers. D’Antoni has managed similar things with other worse  players such as Jeremy Lin in New York, Kendall Marshall with his 8.8 apg in LA, and Boris Diaw with 13.3 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 6.2 apg, 1 bpg in Phoenix in 05-06.

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 There is some truth to your argument that dantoni’s system helped Marion but I think it goes both ways. Without Marion I’m not sure that system would have worked nearly as effectively. And don’t forget that Marion was putting up all-star numbers even before d’antoni or Nash got to Phoenix. 

[ChrispyParticipant]

 C Webb needs to be in. Period. Wallace…eh, maybe. There is an argument for him, for sure. But Marion? Seriously? How? Why?

[CoachWyersParticipant]

 None of the three guys mentioned deserve to be in the HOF based of their NBA careers it is not the Hall of Good.  None of these guys made the All Star game half of their career or more, Made and All NBA or All Defensive team half of their career or more, etc.

Webber has a case since it is the basketball and not NBA HOF as part of the Fab 5.  They should be in the HOF as a collective group as they were iconic and changed the culture of basketball.

 

 

[timinator1Participant]

Nor should Shawn Marion. I agree with a post above, both of those guys were very good, but not all timers. To that end, as much as I love Mo Cheeks and Richmond, they also probably shouldnt be in. But that’s just me.

Webber has a stronger case than all of these guys, I think. But still only 50/50 he should be in.

 

  

[ChrispyParticipant]

 It opens up pandora’s box. Hornacek? Finley? Theus? Woolridge? All similar excellent careers, just NOT hall worthy. Nothing wrong with having been a good but not great player!

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Marion was the clear cut most versatile player in the league during his era. One of the best wing/forward defenders, really helped change the way the game is played along with Steve Nash as one of the first stretch PF’s before that was a staple for teams, could give you 20 and 10 with 2 blocks and 2 steals on any night in his prime. The Matrix may not be a clear cut Hall of Famer but he defenitely is a fringe guy like Webber and will need constant consideration.

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 Chauncey billups is another name that should be on the ballot next year if I’m not mistaken. I feel billups should get in pretty easily and I think most people will probably agree. But what exactly makes him a stronger candidate than Marion or Big Ben?

[220Participant]

 The Finals MVP will undoubtedly help him and may give him a small boost over Ben Wallace and Shawn Marion. 

[CoachWyersParticipant]

 Billups shouldn’t get in either.  Again every good player shouldn’t get in GREAT players should make the HOF.  Only upcoming guys that should be getting in the HOF are Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, and Paul Pierce.

[HitsterParticipant]

Looking at another defensive specialist – Mount Mutombo went in the HOF and whilst Ben at his peak had as many accolades as Dikembe but wasn’t at his peak for as many years as Dikembe.

I’ve always felt the Detroit 2003 to 2008 Team needs HOF representation. Billups is borderline at best so Big Ben looks to be the guy from that team to make it. Also that he came into the NBA the hard way should be credited. So I feel he deserves to be in.

[khaled_a_dParticipant]

I think Ben is a sure thing for HOF, Marion might have an outside chance but doubt it tbh

[mamadouParticipant]

I don’t know if he’ll be in

But he’s for sure in my personal HOF, brought tears to my eyes at times back in the day.

6’9 C….undrafted…nba champ…4 times DPOY….5 times all nba without averaging 10 pts once in his career.

The fro, the body, the bell gong, mason, deeeetroit basketball.. 

A winner, an overachiever, i’ll let you the chuckers, the losers, the underachievers.

Is there any undrafted Hofer’s yet ?, if not, it could help his case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jaycee24Participant]

 I think it goes without saying you can’t quantify numbers for defensive output in many cases just look at guys like Tayshaun Prince or Ron Artest or Bruce Bowen but that’s beside the point. Ben is probably a top 5 interior defender ALL TIME definitely top 10. He made great players look average at the rim and it wasn’t like defense was his ONLY quality. He made use of himself offensively in whatever way possible despite the fact he had little to no shooting touch. He had a year where he avg 15 rebounds and 3 blocks like let’s really think on that. I think it’s hard to say that he’s a better fit than a guy like marion or ritchmond because of the role they carrried at certain points but the fact is his defensive ability is at such an amazing level you can’t deny him a spot in the HOF. 

[r377Participant]

 Yes, ben wallace deserves to be in.

Marion  no.  I said it numerous times over the years but Amare and Marion’s stats were inflated playing fast pace offense with steve nash.

check out both their stats after they left phoenix

 

 

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