[Maniac MaciejParticipant]

Better NBA player, when all is said and done?

Also, is it possible to feel indifference towards Kobe Bryant?

[For_Never_EverParticipant]

 I actually think Shaq doesnt get the credit he deserved. All teams would have to game plan for him, stack up on Bigs during the playoffs. Shaq would have won championships with or without Kobe. 

[meirmeir13]

Shaq without a doubt is a beter player he was able to dominate any game. With that being said Kobe legacy will be better and more respected.

[NbanflguyParticipant]

The term unstoppable gets thrown around too much these days, but Shaq actually was unstoppable. Just imagine if he had Kobe’s work ethic.

[FastAndFuriousParticipant]

 Shaq.

Shaq WAS the reason for Kobe’s first three rings.

When he left look what happened to the Lakers that very next season…..They missed the playoffs.

While Shaq went right to Miami and won a ship in 05-06.

Kobe can win but he NEEDS pieces to his puzzle, Shaq in his prime, could make any team an instant title contender "FACT"

 

Kobe is great, but I have to go with Shaq he was just toooooo dominant.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

People used to talk about the BIG THREE CENTERS (Russell, Wilt, and Kareem).  Shaq is now in that conversation.  Now, we will all wonder if anyone will ever join THE BIG FOUR.  

Kobe has entered the conversation with Michael Jordan which is no small feat.  People wonder if Kobe can pass MJ but I don’t think it matters.  Shaq is up there with the great centers and Kobe is up there with the best shooting guard ever.  MJ has Kobe beat on scoring titles and MVP awards, but Kobe could still pass him on total points and has an outside shot of winning another title to match Jordan’s 6.  Recently I am looking at it like this, there are the BIG FOUR in centers now with Shaq and there are the BIG FOUR with guards now with the MJ, Magic, the Big O, and Kobe.  However, in a couple of years I think Kobe passes the Big O in terms of perception of the "best guards ever."  So we are gonna have the conversation with guards about MJ vs. Magic vs. Kobe.  Those are the three best that ever lived, but you can’t really compare the other two guys with Magic, and each guy OWNED a decade in the NBA.  Magic had the 80’s, Jordan had the 90’s and Kobe had the Double Zeros.  

Kobe has five rings, Shaq had four.  Shaq won a title without Kobe, but Kobe won two without Shaq.  You can’t really say that one of those two is better than the other.  Both guys are TOP TEN all-time (with those collections of centers and guards and I guess I would throw in Larry Bird and Tim Duncan at forward) with Shaq being the best big man of the era and Kobe being the best "little" (ok, non-big man) of the era.

Another way to look at it:  Shaq came out of the gate and DOMINATED the league while it took Kobe a couple of years (out of high school mind you) to really get in a groove.  Shaq faded away more at the end while Kobe is staying in exquisite shape and is going strong and will soon be closing in on close to two decades in the league.  But, together in their primes they ran the league, winning three titles in a row.  

[Mr. 19134Participant]

During their primes Shaq was way way way more dominate.  He was the most unstoppable force in the league.  I still got images of Shaq completely man handling Dikembe Mutombo, who was the defensive player of the year, in the finals against the Sixers.  Had Shaq not been on that team and it was Kobe vs A.I. then the Sixers would of won.  I’ve never been that scared of a player on the opposing teams cuz guys like Kobe and Lebron will miss jumpers, but Shaq didn’t take jumpers he got into the lane at will and dunk on everybody and anything.  Shaq had the strength of a Greek god but it was his quickness that made him that much more special.  He’d pin a defender then spin in one motion elevate so quick and hammer it down wit such force you could of sent the rest of the team to be help defenders and it wouldn’t of mattered.

But for a career with all that said I would take Kobe because Shaq didn’t keep himself in great shape.  He got hurt often and sat out longer then needed.  Plus despite how good he was at rebounding and blocking shots he never dominated on defense like he was capable of doing. 

[SupParticipant]

Kobe, hard work pays off. Shaq had 10 great yrs Kobe’s had about 15 so far.

[tuck243Participant]

Ima be the points police.. How is Manaic in the negative with a great post???  Haters I tell ya…

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

Ima be the points police.. How is Manaic in the negative with a great post??? Haters I tell ya…

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Doesn’t seem to matter what Manic writes he always gets neg repped. It’s just the way things go on this board I guess.

For the record Maniac I completely agree with Hakeem being at least on par with Shaq or ahead of him. Unlike Shaq Hakeem had no weaknesses, he could hit his free throws and run up and down the court even into his early 30s. While Shaq was arguably the most unstoppable big man since Wilt, Hakeem was likewise the most dominant interior defender since Russell.

[llperez]

kobe. First off, niether guy wins a ring without the other during those years together. Its easy to say shaq would have won without kobe, but we’ll never know. The blazers, spurs and kings were all fantastic teams back then and all pushed the lakers to the brink in series’s. ANd when shaq did win with the heat, he was clearly the second option behind wade.

Whenever Kobe retires, whether its today or 5 years from now, he will be ahead of shaq in terms of careers.

 

[Maniac MaciejParticipant]

 Maybe Shaq would have won more rings without Kobe.

Ps. Talking about the "BIG THREE" centers…I may be crazy, but I think Hakeem ranks slightly ahead of Shaq. 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198703100HOU.html

[d-ravParticipant]

 Career, Kobe. Prime, Shaq by a long mile…

 

[Maniac MaciejParticipant]

I try not to worry too much about the points…otherwise, I’d be in trouble.

Hakeem was indeed a dominant force on the defensive side, and had arguably the greatest offensive post-up arsenal of all-time. Unfortunately, he didn’t get much help in the period between when Ralph Sampson starting to be horrible and Clyde Drexler arrived.

[aamir543Participant]

When a guy torches a great defender, he is great. When a guy dominates a great defender. Shaq and Kobe were both unstoppable, but if I had to pick 27 year old Shaq, or 27 year old Kobe, I’d take Shaq.

[iguapops420Participant]

I sincerely doubt a lot of people on here ever even got to see a rookie-96 Shaq. Which is a shame as he was a true foce, BUT unline a guy like Duncan or Hakeem, he absolutely HAD to have a guy like Kobe. A guy who could take over in the fourth when Shaq was prone to sometimes fall asleep for periods of time. Personally I don’t think he could have won as much without Kobe as he didn’t win any with Penny(losing to Hakeem in the Finals), went ECF/title(as second option)/ and lottery with Wade. 

Kobe on the other hand, arguably may not have won without Shaq during the early 2000’s, but could have dominated to middle to late 2000’s up till this point had he been given a team from day one the way LBJ was and allowed to develop the team based on Kobe’s skills as opposed to having Kobe always play to his weaknesses instead of strengths as he always did with Shaq. Had Kobe been developed as a primary scorer first instead of ballhandler/playmaker/scorer alongside of a guy like Iggy and a defensive big like Big Ben, who’s to say that he wouldn’t have ran off 6 likeMJ. 

AS for prime vs. prime, You really can’t go wrong either way as one guy will make you an instant contender but would need a guard to take over when he couldn’t(similar to Dwight), and the other just needs guys who aren’t afraid to shoot when he sets them up. Shaq would make teams change their gameplans, but Kobe would do the same. Both guys actually commanded frequent double and triple teams. Hell, Kobe scored 81 points in a single game while leading a GOD-AWFUL team to a comeback victory over a mid seeded playoff Raptors. Not to mention in another single game earlier that year, he single handedly had more points by HIMSELF after 3 quarters than the entire Dallas Mavericks team who at the time had a terrific defender in Josh Howard guarding him throughout.

As for Shaq going to the ECF the year after and Kobe missing the playoffs, come on now, that argument is simply ignorant. You had Caron Butler who had missed a large portion of the year prior and was just getting himself back in shape, Lamar Odom as a second option(on no team should LO be expected to put 2nd option numbers), a backup Chris Mihm and Chucky ATkins who was barely even backup worthy as his starting line. Jumaine Jones, Brian Cook, and  Tierre Brown and Brian Grant were backups. 

Simply having D-Wade and Shaq together would have been enough, but you add in Udonis Haslem,Eddie Jones, and Damon Jones(the weak link but good beside of Wade and Shaq) rounding out the starting 5. Backups were solid role players in Keyon Dooling,Shandon Anderson,Maalik Allen, and Michael Doleac. The bench wasn’t the greatest, but definitely better than Tierre Brown and Co. 

The following year Miami stacked up their team sending out Eddie  and Damon Jones replacing them with Antoine Walker,Gary Payton,Jason "White Chocolate" Williams, and James Posey. Not to mention a plenty healthy Alonzo Mourning. Again compare that to Chris Mihm,Kwame Brown, LO, and SMUSH PARKER starting beside of Bean. A bench mod consisting of Sasha Vujacic(playing pg),Brian Cook,Luke Walton(before the contract), and Devean George(last year of relevance). The argument is just flaud when you say "Shaq went to the ECF and won a title his 2 years following while Kobe made lotto and met a first round exit to PHX the 2 years after." because it’s simply an ignorant, uninformed argument.

Personally, I take prime Kobe and career Kobe, but I can’t fault anyone who would take Shaq prime either as he was simply that good. It’s a winning choice either way you go. i suppose it just depends on your personal preference.  

 

In regard

[delfamParticipant]

Kobe is a better basketball skills but Shaq had more of an impact on the game IMO. Kinda like Shaq only dominated cause his size while Kobe dominated cause his skill and work ethic.

[Author]

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