[Cosbysweater7Participant]

I haven’t really been following all the draft coverage this year but can someone tell me why Shabazz Muhammed’s stock is plummeting even in such a weak draft class

[jsmitty104Participant]

With the draft less than two days away I’m not sure there is enough time to explain all the reasons.

[jsmitty104Participant]

With the draft less than two days away I’m not sure there is enough time to explain all the reasons.

[nick5354Participant]

Well, perhaps his biggest knock is he can only go left. He is elite going to the left however, completely lacks finishing on the right. Because of this he is too predictable which means he becomes easier to guard, and this will be exploited more in the NBA.

He seems to be a little one dimensional. Did pull down 5.2 boards a game, but that is what he should be doing, not too impressive for a guy who is 6’6 and a strong body. Not a good passer of the ball, didn;t even or just barely averaged one assist a game and has been labelled as having ‘ tunnel vision’ which is a massive knock. Seems like the only thing he can do is score.

A little undersized for the SF position. 6’6 is still a solid height but will find it hard against much taller 6’7-6’9 SF in the NBA.

His character has been put into question. I don’t agree with this one however, but heaps of people are knocking him, with all the lies about his age. Again, I don’t agree this should be a factor as it is more a reflection on his crazy father. People have also expressed concern over his body language.

He is not a good ball-handler, which means it would be hard to try and make him into a SG, as when he puts the ball on the floor it just isn’t as fluid and natural.

This is just off the top of my head so I probably forget a couple of things. So, overall, he is slipping massive in the draft.

[nick5354Participant]

Well, perhaps his biggest knock is he can only go left. He is elite going to the left however, completely lacks finishing on the right. Because of this he is too predictable which means he becomes easier to guard, and this will be exploited more in the NBA.

He seems to be a little one dimensional. Did pull down 5.2 boards a game, but that is what he should be doing, not too impressive for a guy who is 6’6 and a strong body. Not a good passer of the ball, didn;t even or just barely averaged one assist a game and has been labelled as having ‘ tunnel vision’ which is a massive knock. Seems like the only thing he can do is score.

A little undersized for the SF position. 6’6 is still a solid height but will find it hard against much taller 6’7-6’9 SF in the NBA.

His character has been put into question. I don’t agree with this one however, but heaps of people are knocking him, with all the lies about his age. Again, I don’t agree this should be a factor as it is more a reflection on his crazy father. People have also expressed concern over his body language.

He is not a good ball-handler, which means it would be hard to try and make him into a SG, as when he puts the ball on the floor it just isn’t as fluid and natural.

This is just off the top of my head so I probably forget a couple of things. So, overall, he is slipping massive in the draft.

[JoeJoParticipant]

I don’t think he’s elite going left. If that was the case, it would show up in the numbers in his driving ability and ability to shoot off the dribble. His numbers were poor in both areas. If he was really elite going to his left, he wouldn’t have been criticized so much for not being able to blow by defenders. In the games I watched, it didn’t matter what direction he tried to penetrate, he didn’t have the first, second or third step quickness to beat defenders to the rim.

[JoeJoParticipant]

I don’t think he’s elite going left. If that was the case, it would show up in the numbers in his driving ability and ability to shoot off the dribble. His numbers were poor in both areas. If he was really elite going to his left, he wouldn’t have been criticized so much for not being able to blow by defenders. In the games I watched, it didn’t matter what direction he tried to penetrate, he didn’t have the first, second or third step quickness to beat defenders to the rim.

[TomShoeParticipant]

1. He’s older than we thought.

2. He’s undersized for the 3.

3. He was considered a top 3 pick out of HS.

4. He had a disappointing season at UCLA.

5. 23 assists. For the whole season.

6. Doesn’t seem to give 100% effort always.

There’s more, but that’s the basics.

[TomShoeParticipant]

1. He’s older than we thought.

2. He’s undersized for the 3.

3. He was considered a top 3 pick out of HS.

4. He had a disappointing season at UCLA.

5. 23 assists. For the whole season.

6. Doesn’t seem to give 100% effort always.

There’s more, but that’s the basics.

[FutureNBAGMParticipant]

6. Not a team player, yet at least.

[FutureNBAGMParticipant]

6. Not a team player, yet at least.

[llperez]

I think saying he had a disappointing season is incorrect. You can argue his season displayed a number of flaws, but the guy put up 18 points and 5 rebounds on the team that won the PAC 12 championship and finished the season ax the highest ranked team from the conference. I guess if people were expecting Kevin durant or Michael besley numbers, then yeah he was dissapointing.

Now for what is really holding him back, he showed no ability to read and react on offense and adjust to the defense. He was simply put his head down and force his way. He didn’t see wide open teammates. He didn’t change direction and throw mulitiple moves at men. He simply plowed into defenders and tried to score every time he had an opportunity even if it meant tough contested shots. I think scouts saw a problem with his ability to create quality shots one on one. He also didn’t show great athleticism. He rarely finished over defenders or posterized anyone in traffic. Even if he gets by NBA wings, nab cyber bigs will swat a lot of the stuff he threw up.

Some of the things I think he does better then he’s given credit for is shoot from the perimeter. He was 38% from 3 last year and has a nice consistent looking shot. He also had a unique mid range game that I don’t think scouts are used to seeing. If your a wing you are supposed to have some fluid offensive abilities, but a lot of bazz’s strengths are one handed floaters and push shots and the fact he can stop on a dime from 8 feet before drawing a charge and toss it up where most guys try and get all the way to the basket from that range.

As for being too small for a sf, I don’t know. He had a nice wingspan and 37″ vert and weighs 220+ and loves physical contact and playing in the paint. He’s a legit 6-6 by nba standards where they give you an inch. I don’t think he’s too small for the sf position.

[ChoppyParticipant]

How much of Shabazz’s problems can be attributed to the system he was in under Ben Howland? Westbrook and Afflalo are two examples I can think of that had lower numbers than expected at UCLA but are good NBA players.

Also, is his lack of court vision something that can be improved upon or is it something that is innate to a player? I wonder if under the right system he might be able to develop that side of his game.

I haven’t really seen any of Shabazz play and would be interested in any thoughts on those questions.

Personnally I think Shabazz and Zeller are suffering from the “Drummond” syndrome and are being undwervalued now. I just think Shabazz has too much talent to slip out of the lottery and if he does, some GM is gonna be real happy.

[ChoppyParticipant]

How much of Shabazz’s problems can be attributed to the system he was in under Ben Howland? Westbrook and Afflalo are two examples I can think of that had lower numbers than expected at UCLA but are good NBA players.

Also, is his lack of court vision something that can be improved upon or is it something that is innate to a player? I wonder if under the right system he might be able to develop that side of his game.

I haven’t really seen any of Shabazz play and would be interested in any thoughts on those questions.

Personnally I think Shabazz and Zeller are suffering from the “Drummond” syndrome and are being undwervalued now. I just think Shabazz has too much talent to slip out of the lottery and if he does, some GM is gonna be real happy.

[llperez]

I think saying he had a disappointing season is incorrect. You can argue his season displayed a number of flaws, but the guy put up 18 points and 5 rebounds on the team that won the PAC 12 championship and finished the season ax the highest ranked team from the conference. I guess if people were expecting Kevin durant or Michael besley numbers, then yeah he was dissapointing.

Now for what is really holding him back, he showed no ability to read and react on offense and adjust to the defense. He was simply put his head down and force his way. He didn’t see wide open teammates. He didn’t change direction and throw mulitiple moves at men. He simply plowed into defenders and tried to score every time he had an opportunity even if it meant tough contested shots. I think scouts saw a problem with his ability to create quality shots one on one. He also didn’t show great athleticism. He rarely finished over defenders or posterized anyone in traffic. Even if he gets by NBA wings, nab cyber bigs will swat a lot of the stuff he threw up.

Some of the things I think he does better then he’s given credit for is shoot from the perimeter. He was 38% from 3 last year and has a nice consistent looking shot. He also had a unique mid range game that I don’t think scouts are used to seeing. If your a wing you are supposed to have some fluid offensive abilities, but a lot of bazz’s strengths are one handed floaters and push shots and the fact he can stop on a dime from 8 feet before drawing a charge and toss it up where most guys try and get all the way to the basket from that range.

As for being too small for a sf, I don’t know. He had a nice wingspan and 37″ vert and weighs 220+ and loves physical contact and playing in the paint. He’s a legit 6-6 by nba standards where they give you an inch. I don’t think he’s too small for the sf position.

[tdigiParticipant]

I have Shabazz at 8 in my mock. I think he’s gonna be a good player, possibly an all star. He’s got the mentality to be great and to stop at nothing. Hardly anyone has that mindset. I think UCLA’s system sucked for him. Also Howland was fired, that means Shabazz had him when he was a rubbish coach. People can pick apart Bazz all they want but he’s the type of guy who will prove people wrong.

[FutureNBAGMParticipant]

Unless he can play the SG for my Pistons, I would stay away from him

[FutureNBAGMParticipant]

Unless he can play the SG for my Pistons, I would stay away from him

[tdigiParticipant]

I have Shabazz at 8 in my mock. I think he’s gonna be a good player, possibly an all star. He’s got the mentality to be great and to stop at nothing. Hardly anyone has that mindset. I think UCLA’s system sucked for him. Also Howland was fired, that means Shabazz had him when he was a rubbish coach. People can pick apart Bazz all they want but he’s the type of guy who will prove people wrong.

[RollingWaveParticipant]

the history of SF who rebounds below average, doesn’t pass at all, and doesn’t get any secondary things period (steals / blocks etc.) translating to the NBA is very very bad.

Name one guy in the NBA that consistently scored 18 or more, has 1 or less assist, 5 or less rebound, 1 or less steal and block….. , all the guys you THINK can only score, (say.. Jerry Stackhouse) still do all those other things much better than what Muhammad did.

saying that he’s one dimensional is a massive understatement. I suppose he could prove everyone wrong, but I’m placing the wager on bust right now.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

No you’re not gonna find such little assists and rebounding numbers from a starting NBA player because of more possessions per game so trying to translate Bazz college production directly to NBA standards is beyond ignorant.

Compare Harrison Barnes frosh year to Bazz who both played with similar expectations except deespite Barnes playing alongside Kendel Marshal in an uptempo system alongside to great college bigs Barnes only managed 1apg, less then 1 steals and blocks and only 5.6 rebounds while scoring less and shooting a worse % then Bazz.

In fact Bazz was statistically better as a freshman then Barnes was as a sophomore but Barnes sctually averaged more assists as a rookie then he did in college because his game and body is built for the NBA like Bazz.

Barnes was the best rookie in the playoffs last year and nobody was surprised.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

No you’re not gonna find such little assists and rebounding numbers from a starting NBA player because of more possessions per game so trying to translate Bazz college production directly to NBA standards is beyond ignorant.

Compare Harrison Barnes frosh year to Bazz who both played with similar expectations except deespite Barnes playing alongside Kendel Marshal in an uptempo system alongside to great college bigs Barnes only managed 1apg, less then 1 steals and blocks and only 5.6 rebounds while scoring less and shooting a worse % then Bazz.

In fact Bazz was statistically better as a freshman then Barnes was as a sophomore but Barnes sctually averaged more assists as a rookie then he did in college because his game and body is built for the NBA like Bazz.

Barnes was the best rookie in the playoffs last year and nobody was surprised.

[RollingWaveParticipant]

the history of SF who rebounds below average, doesn’t pass at all, and doesn’t get any secondary things period (steals / blocks etc.) translating to the NBA is very very bad.

Name one guy in the NBA that consistently scored 18 or more, has 1 or less assist, 5 or less rebound, 1 or less steal and block….. , all the guys you THINK can only score, (say.. Jerry Stackhouse) still do all those other things much better than what Muhammad did.

saying that he’s one dimensional is a massive understatement. I suppose he could prove everyone wrong, but I’m placing the wager on bust right now.

[JmpasqParticipant]

I still dont believe he is going to fall out of the lottery even with his faults. There will be 1 team that will rate him higher then most.
Out of shear entertainment I would love to see him land in OKC

[JmpasqParticipant]

I still dont believe he is going to fall out of the lottery even with his faults. There will be 1 team that will rate him higher then most.
Out of shear entertainment I would love to see him land in OKC

[Bigstinky34Participant]

Personally I hope he falls to 15 so my Bucks can take him… He is a bit of a risk but when your a team like Milwaukee you need a potential superstar player to have some red flags to fall into your lap… Milwaukee will never tank to get a top pick so Muhammad could be as close to a elite talent as they can get… I think with some tough professional coaching he can be a better teammate and eventually be a SG in the nba…

[Bigstinky34Participant]

Personally I hope he falls to 15 so my Bucks can take him… He is a bit of a risk but when your a team like Milwaukee you need a potential superstar player to have some red flags to fall into your lap… Milwaukee will never tank to get a top pick so Muhammad could be as close to a elite talent as they can get… I think with some tough professional coaching he can be a better teammate and eventually be a SG in the nba…

[Cosbysweater7Participant]

I’m hoping he falls to Boston since it looks like they’re are heading in the rebuilding direction. I think at #16 the reward will far outweigh the risk and he’ll end up being one of the draft day steals. Falling from a pre-season potential top 3 pick to a mid-late first round pick should definitely put a chip on his shoulder and motivate him to really work on the flaws of his game.

[Cosbysweater7Participant]

I’m hoping he falls to Boston since it looks like they’re are heading in the rebuilding direction. I think at #16 the reward will far outweigh the risk and he’ll end up being one of the draft day steals. Falling from a pre-season potential top 3 pick to a mid-late first round pick should definitely put a chip on his shoulder and motivate him to really work on the flaws of his game.

[mamadouParticipant]

I had him to the pistons forever and i’ll probably keep it that way…
They have some shooters, they have true bigs, they have cap space and they lack that dynamic scorer-mindset-physicality outside.
Singler played 2 guard when prince was still there, then he played SF, i envision bazz as a big physical mismatch potential SG, more than as a slightly undersized SF, could play both spots at the end of the day.
I hate his weaknesses(program and anderson/drew II are probably part of it, what he did, what he had to do), but i like his strenghts, rare in the lottery, even more in the top 5…so outside, it’s worth the gamble.
7-6, 5-3(pts-boards) guys are now locked in the lottery, good role players are in the top 5, and guys like len, bennett and their hyundai motors are N°1 contenders ?…
I give him a break…

[mamadouParticipant]

I had him to the pistons forever and i’ll probably keep it that way…
They have some shooters, they have true bigs, they have cap space and they lack that dynamic scorer-mindset-physicality outside.
Singler played 2 guard when prince was still there, then he played SF, i envision bazz as a big physical mismatch potential SG, more than as a slightly undersized SF, could play both spots at the end of the day.
I hate his weaknesses(program and anderson/drew II are probably part of it, what he did, what he had to do), but i like his strenghts, rare in the lottery, even more in the top 5…so outside, it’s worth the gamble.
7-6, 5-3(pts-boards) guys are now locked in the lottery, good role players are in the top 5, and guys like len, bennett and their hyundai motors are N°1 contenders ?…
I give him a break…

[Author]

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