[scarlson2345Participant]

 There are a few guys that always come to my mind when I think about the state of the SG position in the league today. Right now I think that the state is not very strong as most guards coming up theses days prefer the ball in their hands and are turning themselves into point guards. So I wanted to discuss young, high ceiling SG’s in the NBA today and where they are at/ what they need to improve. These are guys that, if they can take the next step, I think can really take their teams to another level.

I eliminated the young studs at the position that look like they have a bright future no matter what: Klay, Oladipo, Beal, etc. and also eliminated the guys that havent had enough time to prove themselves: Clarkson, Lavine, Rodney Hood, Stauskas, James Young, KJ McDaniels, Crabbe, 

All of the above guys should be talked about but below is where I am most focused.

Ben Mclemore: 6’5" 195lbs: Good size for the position and great athleticism. Shot the ball significantly better in his second year. Needs to stay in the weight room to add some mass. This should help him become more effective attacking the hoop and a better defender. Consistency is the name of the game for his guy as he just needs to stay on the floor and pick his spots. He will be pushed by Bellineli but I am hoping he takes another step forward and does not perform in his third year like the next guy on my list.

Terrene Ross: 6’7" 195lbs: Ross, similar to Mclemore has a very high ceiling. He showed solid improvement from year one to year two but dissapointed in year three, failing to lock down his spot and losing out minutes to Vasquez. Another guy who needs to get in the weight room and work on his defense to really earn a role. He is in a tough position now playing behind Demar and Demare but should see small ball minutes when they move Demare to the 4. Just like Ben it comes down to consisteny, guy went off for a 50 pt game 2 years back so you know he has the potentail. Might just need a change of scenery where a team has a more reliable coach and post presence so he can get more clean looks.

Tony Snell: 6’7" 210lbs: Now that the Mayor is in the fold for the Bulls I think Tony’s role with the team is going to grow. He has already shown good potential as a defender and athlete. His shooting has been streaky through two years but a lot of that can be attributed to Thibs having a quick trigger when playing young guys. He needs to get in the weight room a little bit more (noticing a trend?) but if he can become a lock down defender and hit at a slightly higher % from 3 he will get more minutes and potenitally move Dunleavy to the bench.

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope: 6’5" 205lbs: KCP has a shaky rookie season but came back last year to dominate summer league and carve out a nice role as Detroits SG of the future. He was a high volume shooter and scorer at Georgia so I think he has the ability to take on a larger role in the offense.

Tim Hardaway Jr.: 6’6" 210lbs: Another guy with good size and a lot of natural potential. He did not get nearly the minutes jump that you would have expected after a promising rookie year. Not a good defender and shoots whenever he even has a slight chance. Needs to show he has a work ethic to earn minutes on a talented roster. Has to become a better defender and work on the small things like the extra pass and good shot selection. He went to the perfect situation IMO to learn ball movement and spacing from Korver and Bud.

Let me know what you guys think about these players but also other guys that might fit into this category that I did not mention. Earlier someone mentioned Fournier but I have not seen that guy play enough at this point.

 

 

 

[rich.homie.mitchParticipant]

 James Young

I know he’s still young but he was coming in as a knock down shooter, but I watched a few celtics games and saw his summer league games and he couldn’t shoot it seemed like. Was 25% from 3 last year…

 

[BleedGreen808Participant]

 I’m hoping Young can live up to the potential he has but his summer league was disappointing.  Shooting is supposed to be his strong suit but he struggled to hit 3s.  He still needs to improve his off hand and handle in general.  He still doesn’t want to go right or take a right handed floater/layup.  

I’m not going to give up on him because he’s still only 19 but it seems like it’ll be another year in the d-league again.  On the bright side he shot really well in the d-league last year.  It was more his defense that kept him from getting playing time for the Celtics.  

[BleedGreen808Participant]

 I’m hoping Young can live up to the potential he has but his summer league was disappointing.  Shooting is supposed to be his strong suit but he struggled to hit 3s.  He still needs to improve his off hand and handle in general.  He still doesn’t want to go right or take a right handed floater/layup.  

I’m not going to give up on him because he’s still only 19 but it seems like it’ll be another year in the d-league again.  On the bright side he shot really well in the d-league last year.  It was more his defense that kept him from getting playing time for the Celtics.  

[rich.homie.mitchParticipant]

 James Young

I know he’s still young but he was coming in as a knock down shooter, but I watched a few celtics games and saw his summer league games and he couldn’t shoot it seemed like. Was 25% from 3 last year…

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Nice list. Although I must say KCP hasn’t quite disappointed. Defensively he has been an ace for Detroit. Offensively he has been extremely inconsistent. He will have three games with more than 17-points than right after have three games with less than 7 points while taking 15 shots in a the games lol. Although one thing that was consistent was his minutes because of his defensive effort and will to learn. I had him on my fantasy team last year all year and watched him close. I expect big things from him going forward and a huge efficiency increase this year.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Nice list. Although I must say KCP hasn’t quite disappointed. Defensively he has been an ace for Detroit. Offensively he has been extremely inconsistent. He will have three games with more than 17-points than right after have three games with less than 7 points while taking 15 shots in a the games lol. Although one thing that was consistent was his minutes because of his defensive effort and will to learn. I had him on my fantasy team last year all year and watched him close. I expect big things from him going forward and a huge efficiency increase this year.

[JR RyderParticipant]

Zach Levine

[llperez]

 talk about zero patience. yeah that lavine kid sure hasnt lived up to his potential. 

[llperez]

 talk about zero patience. yeah that lavine kid sure hasnt lived up to his potential. 

[JR RyderParticipant]

Zach Levine

[TrillaParticipant]

 Hes a guy i think needs a change of scenery, with a much more consistent offense where he can get good looks. Hes a guy I would love for my team to take a swing on next year in RFA

[OhCanada-Participant]

Ross is getting pretty underrated on this board. He does have good upside yet he also provides good value on the wing now for the Raptors. He is a high volume perimeter shooter who makes 3-pointers at a high rate and takes about 50% of his shots from 3. In the right situations he gaurds three different positions and is put in those positions and is trusted by Casey against premiere players. His main problem is that he is okay with differing to Lowry, Derozans, and Valanciunas offensively and when he disappears offensively and doesn’t have much opportunity to create he dissengages, misses open shots, and becomes soft on D. Ross recently had a kid and went through a tough beggining to his summer which alot of fans in the Raptors community are hoping makes him more mature and stronger mentally. He should be replacing Lou Williams as the main offensive spark off the bench this year as well which  is actually added responsibility from his role last year. I think he plays well and demands a large contract what I’m not sure on is if the Raps wanna pay him that large contract or move him before its payday.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Ross is getting pretty underrated on this board. He does have good upside yet he also provides good value on the wing now for the Raptors. He is a high volume perimeter shooter who makes 3-pointers at a high rate and takes about 50% of his shots from 3. In the right situations he gaurds three different positions and is put in those positions and is trusted by Casey against premiere players. His main problem is that he is okay with differing to Lowry, Derozans, and Valanciunas offensively and when he disappears offensively and doesn’t have much opportunity to create he dissengages, misses open shots, and becomes soft on D. Ross recently had a kid and went through a tough beggining to his summer which alot of fans in the Raptors community are hoping makes him more mature and stronger mentally. He should be replacing Lou Williams as the main offensive spark off the bench this year as well which  is actually added responsibility from his role last year. I think he plays well and demands a large contract what I’m not sure on is if the Raps wanna pay him that large contract or move him before its payday.

[TrillaParticipant]

 Hes a guy i think needs a change of scenery, with a much more consistent offense where he can get good looks. Hes a guy I would love for my team to take a swing on next year in RFA

[T Rex]

 If Avery Bradley can develop some confidence in his dribble driving, he could be a really well-rounded player. He already has a good jump shot and all-nba defense.

 

 

[T Rex]

 If Avery Bradley can develop some confidence in his dribble driving, he could be a really well-rounded player. He already has a good jump shot and all-nba defense.

 

 

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

 Jeremy Lamb. Boy just needs playing time!! He’s too talented to be wasting away his years in some team’s bench. Hope he gets nice 6th man minutes in Charlotte.

[GBeeParticipant]

 This is the guy for me. A few of those guys mentioned in the OP don’t even have high ceilings. THjr, Snell? Those guys aren’t high ceiling players.  THjr’s floor game has always sucked, he’s just a decent athlete, doesn’t have a good first step, has a low IQ especially in terms of shot-selection and he’s never shown that he could defend well at any level. Snell is ok, but he was never projected to have a high ceiling.  He’s got good size, but average athleticism and he has the mentality of a role player.  If he pans out he’s just a 3 and D, and I like Tony.  I also think people look at athleticism alone to project ceilings, which is why McLemore and Ross are considered to have high ceilings still.  I could argue that they don’t because of how inept they are with the ball in their hands.  They’re just not good ball-handlers so that limits their offense.  They don’t create their own shots easily.  They can’t break their man down to get to the hoop. Can’t run pick and roll with them both because they don’t handle it well AND bc they lack a feel for passing as well.

The reason why Lamb fits this bill for me is because unlike those other SGs, he CAN handle the ball.  He can create separation off the bounce and get his own shot.  He CAN handle PnR and is actually a pretty underrated pocket passer.  I think he has the potential to be a dynamite PnR player because of those attributes plus he has a pull up game.  His problem is that he can’t defend to save his life.  Off the ball he’s ok, but he plays with a natually high center of gravity and likely will always be physically weak. 

 

 

 

[GBeeParticipant]

 This is the guy for me. A few of those guys mentioned in the OP don’t even have high ceilings. THjr, Snell? Those guys aren’t high ceiling players.  THjr’s floor game has always sucked, he’s just a decent athlete, doesn’t have a good first step, has a low IQ especially in terms of shot-selection and he’s never shown that he could defend well at any level. Snell is ok, but he was never projected to have a high ceiling.  He’s got good size, but average athleticism and he has the mentality of a role player.  If he pans out he’s just a 3 and D, and I like Tony.  I also think people look at athleticism alone to project ceilings, which is why McLemore and Ross are considered to have high ceilings still.  I could argue that they don’t because of how inept they are with the ball in their hands.  They’re just not good ball-handlers so that limits their offense.  They don’t create their own shots easily.  They can’t break their man down to get to the hoop. Can’t run pick and roll with them both because they don’t handle it well AND bc they lack a feel for passing as well.

The reason why Lamb fits this bill for me is because unlike those other SGs, he CAN handle the ball.  He can create separation off the bounce and get his own shot.  He CAN handle PnR and is actually a pretty underrated pocket passer.  I think he has the potential to be a dynamite PnR player because of those attributes plus he has a pull up game.  His problem is that he can’t defend to save his life.  Off the ball he’s ok, but he plays with a natually high center of gravity and likely will always be physically weak. 

 

 

 

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

 Jeremy Lamb. Boy just needs playing time!! He’s too talented to be wasting away his years in some team’s bench. Hope he gets nice 6th man minutes in Charlotte.

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

For me, the main issue with Hardaway is that at the beginning of his career in New York he was asked to do too much at times, which makes him underdeveloped in the areas he should develop in: defense and consistent catch-and-shoot three-pointers. I truly hope he will be able to straigthen his game up in Atlanta, and becomes a consistent, above-average role player who will form a formidable shooting duo with Korver on the wing. For me, he is the real replacement for Carroll, and if he puts the effort in it I believe he can become a very good defender.

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

For me, the main issue with Hardaway is that at the beginning of his career in New York he was asked to do too much at times, which makes him underdeveloped in the areas he should develop in: defense and consistent catch-and-shoot three-pointers. I truly hope he will be able to straigthen his game up in Atlanta, and becomes a consistent, above-average role player who will form a formidable shooting duo with Korver on the wing. For me, he is the real replacement for Carroll, and if he puts the effort in it I believe he can become a very good defender.

[ballislyfe25Participant]

Mike Woodson knew exactly what to do with Tim Hardaway Jr. his rookie year. The problem was when Derek Fisher took control and evidently watched no more than 5 minutes of film on the roster he was coming into.

Under Woodson, Hardaway was asked to run the lanes in and finish in transition, shoot spot-up 3s, be an offensive threat off the ball, and defend adequately; all strengths of his and fair expectations for a rookie. Under Fisher, Hardaway was given the role perfectly suited for J.R. Smith, as instant offense off of the bench. He was running pick and rolls up top and from the wings, along with being asked to create offensively, which are precisely his weakest points. His defense likely worsened as a result. 

Echoing the sentiments of Mr. Hookshot, I believe Atlanta is the place for Hardaway to develop and thrive. If he doesn’t work out in Atlanta, then Fisher and Phil Jackson were right to sell on him. However, I trust the judgement of Coach Budenholzer and his staff more than Fisher and Phil and expect a nice season from Hardaway in ATL.

[ballislyfe25Participant]

Mike Woodson knew exactly what to do with Tim Hardaway Jr. his rookie year. The problem was when Derek Fisher took control and evidently watched no more than 5 minutes of film on the roster he was coming into.

Under Woodson, Hardaway was asked to run the lanes in and finish in transition, shoot spot-up 3s, be an offensive threat off the ball, and defend adequately; all strengths of his and fair expectations for a rookie. Under Fisher, Hardaway was given the role perfectly suited for J.R. Smith, as instant offense off of the bench. He was running pick and rolls up top and from the wings, along with being asked to create offensively, which are precisely his weakest points. His defense likely worsened as a result. 

Echoing the sentiments of Mr. Hookshot, I believe Atlanta is the place for Hardaway to develop and thrive. If he doesn’t work out in Atlanta, then Fisher and Phil Jackson were right to sell on him. However, I trust the judgement of Coach Budenholzer and his staff more than Fisher and Phil and expect a nice season from Hardaway in ATL.

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

 I love Beal but lets not get ahead of ourselves and put him in the same category as Klay Thompson yet…He needs to stay healthy and become a 20+ ppg guy CONSISTANTLY.

Otherwise, great thread. 

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

 I love Beal but lets not get ahead of ourselves and put him in the same category as Klay Thompson yet…He needs to stay healthy and become a 20+ ppg guy CONSISTANTLY.

Otherwise, great thread. 

[Pro-21Participant]

 I have not seen a great shooting guard prospect in a while. Beal’s looked the most promising, and he just doesn’t seem to be that good. In the late 90’s and early-mid 2000s there were so many great 2guards. Kobe, TMac, Ray Allen, Vince Carter,  Gilbert Arenas, Brandon Roy, Manu Ginobli, Joe Johnson … etc. After James Harden, who has a case over just about everyone except Kobe and possibly TMac, I can’t see any of these players being as good as those I just listed, and thats pretty poor. Klay Thompson and demar derozan are good, but all of those guards are much, much better.

These 2guards lack the ballhandling and the creativity off the dribble to be dominant. I don’t see anyone in this thread becoming more than a starter, maybe a fringe allstar.

 

[Pro-21Participant]

 I have not seen a great shooting guard prospect in a while. Beal’s looked the most promising, and he just doesn’t seem to be that good. In the late 90’s and early-mid 2000s there were so many great 2guards. Kobe, TMac, Ray Allen, Vince Carter,  Gilbert Arenas, Brandon Roy, Manu Ginobli, Joe Johnson … etc. After James Harden, who has a case over just about everyone except Kobe and possibly TMac, I can’t see any of these players being as good as those I just listed, and thats pretty poor. Klay Thompson and demar derozan are good, but all of those guards are much, much better.

These 2guards lack the ballhandling and the creativity off the dribble to be dominant. I don’t see anyone in this thread becoming more than a starter, maybe a fringe allstar.

 

[Memphisboy14Participant]

Sadly the SG position is pretty much dead. I can’t think of a guy even being remotely close to a All-Star talent coming into the NBA at all for a long time.

[Memphisboy14Participant]

Sadly the SG position is pretty much dead. I can’t think of a guy even being remotely close to a All-Star talent coming into the NBA at all for a long time.

[mgreener_34Participant]

 Harden/Beal/Thompson/Olidipo/Derozen/Butler/Middleton/Monta/Reddick/Knight/Green/Korver…And that’s not including the HoF in Wade/Kobe and the good role-players in Wes Matthews/Joe Johnson/Avery Bradley/Alec Burks/Kevin MArtin

I don’t know what your expectations are, but I personally think the SG spot in the NBA right now is STACKED! Tons of great players with 2 way potential, and a lot of these guys are just hitting their strides. Middleton, Beal, Olidipo, and Knight all seem poised to make the same jump that Butler and Derozen made, and there are still a ton of good young SG prospects in the league right now that I haven’t even mentioned. Sure, it’s not the late 90’s or early 2000’s, but I think you guys are under rating the SG potition in the NBA right now. 3-D players are the new fad, so players are tailoring their games after that much more, and I think we are getting better basketball and SG’s because of it. I can’t remember a time when the nba had so many great two way SG’s all playing at once. 

Also, this thread starts and ends with Lance Stephenson…14/7/5 on about 50/35/71 at age 23 for one of the best teams in the East, and now it looks like he’s destined to be a glorified bench player in the mold of JR Smith…come on Lance

[mgreener_34Participant]

 Harden/Beal/Thompson/Olidipo/Derozen/Butler/Middleton/Monta/Reddick/Knight/Green/Korver…And that’s not including the HoF in Wade/Kobe and the good role-players in Wes Matthews/Joe Johnson/Avery Bradley/Alec Burks/Kevin MArtin

I don’t know what your expectations are, but I personally think the SG spot in the NBA right now is STACKED! Tons of great players with 2 way potential, and a lot of these guys are just hitting their strides. Middleton, Beal, Olidipo, and Knight all seem poised to make the same jump that Butler and Derozen made, and there are still a ton of good young SG prospects in the league right now that I haven’t even mentioned. Sure, it’s not the late 90’s or early 2000’s, but I think you guys are under rating the SG potition in the NBA right now. 3-D players are the new fad, so players are tailoring their games after that much more, and I think we are getting better basketball and SG’s because of it. I can’t remember a time when the nba had so many great two way SG’s all playing at once. 

Also, this thread starts and ends with Lance Stephenson…14/7/5 on about 50/35/71 at age 23 for one of the best teams in the East, and now it looks like he’s destined to be a glorified bench player in the mold of JR Smith…come on Lance

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