[MJBrownParticipant]

coming from Woj. This could be a crazy next 72 hours

[MJBrownParticipant]

 Knics sending Robin Lopez, Jerian Grant and more…..

[MJBrownParticipant]

 Knics sending Robin Lopez, Jerian Grant and more…..

[MJBrownParticipant]

 Rose, Holliday and next years 2nd rounder for Lopez, Grant and Calderon

[MJBrownParticipant]

 Rose, Holliday and next years 2nd rounder for Lopez, Grant and Calderon

[220Participant]

 Wow that’s surprising. I don’t get why the Knicks would want Derrick Rose at this point.

[220Participant]

 Wow that’s surprising. I don’t get why the Knicks would want Derrick Rose at this point.

[TyroberParticipant]

 It’s nice to see a rumor come true instead of being shocked. Maybe Rose can give the Knicks something but I gotta say I’m really not a fan of Phil Jackson the GM

[TyroberParticipant]

 It’s nice to see a rumor come true instead of being shocked. Maybe Rose can give the Knicks something but I gotta say I’m really not a fan of Phil Jackson the GM

[Reptilian MonkParticipant]

 They get Rose on last year of his contract. Interestng Rose, Porzingis, Melo and Rumors of Howard going to Knicks

[MopgrassParticipant]

 They got Rose, ditched a couple bad contracts, but gave up Jerian Grant. Sounds like an outstanding deal for the Knicks. It positions them to get a guy like Dwight Howard. I know Rose isn’t the old Rose, but maybe Jackson knows how to use him (like Thibs did). 

[MopgrassParticipant]

 They got Rose, ditched a couple bad contracts, but gave up Jerian Grant. Sounds like an outstanding deal for the Knicks. It positions them to get a guy like Dwight Howard. I know Rose isn’t the old Rose, but maybe Jackson knows how to use him (like Thibs did). 

[machu46Participant]

Robin Lopez is a legit starting C on a cheap deal now that the salary cap is spiking.  It isn’t a bad contract at all unless the Knicks simply don’t want any long-term contracts, in which case their targeting Dwight and Noah makes no sense.

[machu46Participant]

Robin Lopez is a legit starting C on a cheap deal now that the salary cap is spiking.  It isn’t a bad contract at all unless the Knicks simply don’t want any long-term contracts, in which case their targeting Dwight and Noah makes no sense.

[Reptilian MonkParticipant]

 They get Rose on last year of his contract. Interestng Rose, Porzingis, Melo and Rumors of Howard going to Knicks

[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

Same Knicks of the 2000’s another washed out star 

[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

Same Knicks of the 2000’s another washed out star 

[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

 Great move by the knicks if D Rose is Healthy !!!!

[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

 Great move by the knicks if D Rose is Healthy !!!!

[SubZeroParticipant]

They didn’t really give up a whole lot, and I bet this puts more butts in seats. I wonder if Chicago could’ve gotten more from somewhere else, though. Does this mean they’re looking at a point, possibly Dejounte Murray at their pick? I feel like they should because I can’t imagine them putting all their eggs in Jerian Grant’s basket

[SubZeroParticipant]

They didn’t really give up a whole lot, and I bet this puts more butts in seats. I wonder if Chicago could’ve gotten more from somewhere else, though. Does this mean they’re looking at a point, possibly Dejounte Murray at their pick? I feel like they should because I can’t imagine them putting all their eggs in Jerian Grant’s basket

[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

 Dwight just came out and said he wants to go to NY.. 

Rose

Afflalo if he resigns

Melo

Zing

Howard

Wow.. If healthy this is a top 6 team in the east. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

 Dwight just came out and said he wants to go to NY.. 

Rose

Afflalo if he resigns

Melo

Zing

Howard

Wow.. If healthy this is a top 6 team in the east. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MopgrassParticipant]

 Howard AND Aflalo would make it a very solid team. Howard would actually like the triangle (however much Hornecek uses it). 

[MopgrassParticipant]

 Howard AND Aflalo would make it a very solid team. Howard would actually like the triangle (however much Hornecek uses it). 

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 This has to mean Howard is strongly considering signing there as well. I couldn’t see them making this trade if that wasn’t the case. I like it though. It’s not really that big of a gamble. Rose’s contract is up after the season and they didn’t give up that much to get him. It will be interesting to see how that lineup actually works on the floor but it definitely looks pretty formidable on paper at least (assuming they sign Howard as well).

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 This has to mean Howard is strongly considering signing there as well. I couldn’t see them making this trade if that wasn’t the case. I like it though. It’s not really that big of a gamble. Rose’s contract is up after the season and they didn’t give up that much to get him. It will be interesting to see how that lineup actually works on the floor but it definitely looks pretty formidable on paper at least (assuming they sign Howard as well).

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

 I see all these "if healthy…" proclamations about Rose

What is "healthy" regarding Rose at this point? Wasn’t he healthy last year?

Isn’t it just possible that he’s not the same player anymore? He’s good enough to have his moments but if people are holding on to the Rose of 5 years ago, he’s gone. 

This still isn’t a bad trade for the Knicks though. They haven’t had a good point guard since Raymond Felton – before he became the guy that ate Raymond Felton – and Rose is alright. NY will recruit Noah or Howard and still have money to fill their bench. 

 

 

 

 

 

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

 I see all these "if healthy…" proclamations about Rose

What is "healthy" regarding Rose at this point? Wasn’t he healthy last year?

Isn’t it just possible that he’s not the same player anymore? He’s good enough to have his moments but if people are holding on to the Rose of 5 years ago, he’s gone. 

This still isn’t a bad trade for the Knicks though. They haven’t had a good point guard since Raymond Felton – before he became the guy that ate Raymond Felton – and Rose is alright. NY will recruit Noah or Howard and still have money to fill their bench. 

 

 

 

 

 

[tblazer_NZParticipant]

At the end of the season he was healthy and shooting well, but earlier in the season he had double vision I believe it was after taking an elbow to the face. Even with the double vision he played on but not to good effect. Bulls must be targeting a PG. I heard that they have a soft promise with Wade Baldwin. The ball will be in Butlers hands to control the offense more now. Nothing that they traded had a real significant value.

[machu46Participant]

His TS% the last couple months was at 52%.  That’s not shooting well at all.

[machu46Participant]

His TS% the last couple months was at 52%.  That’s not shooting well at all.

[tblazer_NZParticipant]

At the end of the season he was healthy and shooting well, but earlier in the season he had double vision I believe it was after taking an elbow to the face. Even with the double vision he played on but not to good effect. Bulls must be targeting a PG. I heard that they have a soft promise with Wade Baldwin. The ball will be in Butlers hands to control the offense more now. Nothing that they traded had a real significant value.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 Wow!

The Knicks is where injury-prone, overhyped former superstars* go to rot!

 

 

 

 

* The EXCEPTION being, of course, Carmelo Anthony since he is not currently nor never has been an actual NBA "Superstar".

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 Wow!

The Knicks is where injury-prone, overhyped former superstars* go to rot!

 

 

 

 

* The EXCEPTION being, of course, Carmelo Anthony since he is not currently nor never has been an actual NBA "Superstar".

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The GoatParticipant]

The Knicks had no other play. Melo has a no trade clause and Zing is a keeper. No 1st rd draft picks, virtually no assets to trade. All you can do is payout a bad contract. Rose  has what is probably the best bad contract around, just cos he’s young and theres a (very very slim) chance he becomes close to what he was.  

[The GoatParticipant]

The Knicks had no other play. Melo has a no trade clause and Zing is a keeper. No 1st rd draft picks, virtually no assets to trade. All you can do is payout a bad contract. Rose  has what is probably the best bad contract around, just cos he’s young and theres a (very very slim) chance he becomes close to what he was.  

[The GoatParticipant]

The Knicks had no other play. Melo has a no trade clause and Zing is a keeper. No 1st rd draft picks, virtually no assets to trade. All you can do is payout a bad contract. Rose  has what is probably the best bad contract around, just cos he’s young and theres a (very very slim) chance he becomes close to what he was.  

[The GoatParticipant]

The Knicks had no other play. Melo has a no trade clause and Zing is a keeper. No 1st rd draft picks, virtually no assets to trade. All you can do is payout a bad contract. Rose  has what is probably the best bad contract around, just cos he’s young and theres a (very very slim) chance he becomes close to what he was.  

[sheltwon3Participant]

 Actually everybody under contract now for the most part is a good deal because the cap is going up crazy in the next two years starting this year.  You will see average players make around how much D Rose is making now.

[sheltwon3Participant]

 Actually everybody under contract now for the most part is a good deal because the cap is going up crazy in the next two years starting this year.  You will see average players make around how much D Rose is making now.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

This surprises me. The big reasons I thought the Bulls wouldn’t deal Rose is that they couldn’t possibly get anything approaching a fair return for when he is healthy. Nobody was worse than Rose early in the year, but he played through blurred vision. The fact that a guy shouldn’t play basketball if his vision isn’t right is revealed in the results. Before 12/25, 24 games 13.5 PPG, 37.2 FG%, 22.4 3FG%, 70.5FT%, 5.4 APG, 2.6 TOPG, 3.3 RPG, .7 SPG. Thereafter, 42 games 18.0 PPG, 45.5 FG%, 33.7 3FG%, 83.9FT%, 4.3 APG, 2.7 TOPG, 3.5 RPG, .6 SPG. Those numbers, albeit on a team that was completely disjointed and lost its identity, are not all that dissimilar from many scoring guards (Irving, Bledsoe, Walker, etc) so there is value in how he played for much of last season. The actual trade, however, revealed that they didn’t get anything close to it. They took back $13,219,250, $13,788,500, and $14,357,750 for the next three years of Robin Lopez, and $7,708,427 for a 35-year old backup point guard in Jose Calderon. I don’t care how high the salary cap is, $14 million is too much for a guy whose limited abilities make him a good backup center and a starter who will always look to upgrade. Maybe Jerian Grant does better in a new spot, but is not a franchise changer. Given the bet Gar Foreman made on not only firing Tom Thibodeau but transitioning the team’s identity without really changing its personnel, I don’t think ownership (even with Reinsdorf being notoriously loyal to his GMs with both the Bulls and White Sox) would afford him a long time frame for fixing the team.It is also why I thought it would be the longest of long shots that they would trade Jimmy Butler. Most GMs don’t make moves that leave them wide open for firing when coming off a bad year. This is a double-down. Maybe it works, but it casts a wide net for what moves come next in the draft, free agency, and trades. If Pau and Noah walk as free agents, center is not a strength. Mike Dunleavy is going to be 36 and coming off a 31 game season. Given that Butler is at his best offensively (and now there is no doubt who their best offensive player is with Pau and Rose gone) when guarded by shooting guards, they need to look to shore up that spot. Now, they need a point guard. It is a lot to address.

For New York, they are giving Hornacek a guard similar to the one he had in Phoenix with Bledsoe. It should work to the benefit of Rose, and the Knicks. All they gave up are a couple bad contracts and a young guard. I think it will work out, but, if not, Rose is entering the final year of his deal. Considering the are coming off a 32-win season with no draft pick, they certainly started the summer with a bang. I honestly cannot see the downside to the move for New York. Yes, they need a center. Yes, they can find a comparable one to Lopez for much, much less or a better one with their cap space for a similar amount.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

This surprises me. The big reasons I thought the Bulls wouldn’t deal Rose is that they couldn’t possibly get anything approaching a fair return for when he is healthy. Nobody was worse than Rose early in the year, but he played through blurred vision. The fact that a guy shouldn’t play basketball if his vision isn’t right is revealed in the results. Before 12/25, 24 games 13.5 PPG, 37.2 FG%, 22.4 3FG%, 70.5FT%, 5.4 APG, 2.6 TOPG, 3.3 RPG, .7 SPG. Thereafter, 42 games 18.0 PPG, 45.5 FG%, 33.7 3FG%, 83.9FT%, 4.3 APG, 2.7 TOPG, 3.5 RPG, .6 SPG. Those numbers, albeit on a team that was completely disjointed and lost its identity, are not all that dissimilar from many scoring guards (Irving, Bledsoe, Walker, etc) so there is value in how he played for much of last season. The actual trade, however, revealed that they didn’t get anything close to it. They took back $13,219,250, $13,788,500, and $14,357,750 for the next three years of Robin Lopez, and $7,708,427 for a 35-year old backup point guard in Jose Calderon. I don’t care how high the salary cap is, $14 million is too much for a guy whose limited abilities make him a good backup center and a starter who will always look to upgrade. Maybe Jerian Grant does better in a new spot, but is not a franchise changer. Given the bet Gar Foreman made on not only firing Tom Thibodeau but transitioning the team’s identity without really changing its personnel, I don’t think ownership (even with Reinsdorf being notoriously loyal to his GMs with both the Bulls and White Sox) would afford him a long time frame for fixing the team.It is also why I thought it would be the longest of long shots that they would trade Jimmy Butler. Most GMs don’t make moves that leave them wide open for firing when coming off a bad year. This is a double-down. Maybe it works, but it casts a wide net for what moves come next in the draft, free agency, and trades. If Pau and Noah walk as free agents, center is not a strength. Mike Dunleavy is going to be 36 and coming off a 31 game season. Given that Butler is at his best offensively (and now there is no doubt who their best offensive player is with Pau and Rose gone) when guarded by shooting guards, they need to look to shore up that spot. Now, they need a point guard. It is a lot to address.

For New York, they are giving Hornacek a guard similar to the one he had in Phoenix with Bledsoe. It should work to the benefit of Rose, and the Knicks. All they gave up are a couple bad contracts and a young guard. I think it will work out, but, if not, Rose is entering the final year of his deal. Considering the are coming off a 32-win season with no draft pick, they certainly started the summer with a bang. I honestly cannot see the downside to the move for New York. Yes, they need a center. Yes, they can find a comparable one to Lopez for much, much less or a better one with their cap space for a similar amount.

[nill650Participant]

 what else are the knicks going to do? they are not winning any championships but a player like rose will help sell seats. Getting rid of Grant I understand, but Lopez too? now they don’t have a starting center. 

Bulls win this deal, Rose is finished

[nill650Participant]

 what else are the knicks going to do? they are not winning any championships but a player like rose will help sell seats. Getting rid of Grant I understand, but Lopez too? now they don’t have a starting center. 

Bulls win this deal, Rose is finished

[shooting-guard9Participant]

 Tell Shaun Livingston he’s finished… There’s really nothing NOT to like about this deal as a Knickerbocker

[D7H7NParticipant]

 Well Golden State has some elite shooting coaches. I don’t know if New York has any good ones but Rose needs to work on that 3-point shot because he’s going to be left wide open a ton when Melo has the ball.

[D7H7NParticipant]

 Well Golden State has some elite shooting coaches. I don’t know if New York has any good ones but Rose needs to work on that 3-point shot because he’s going to be left wide open a ton when Melo has the ball.

[shooting-guard9Participant]

 Tell Shaun Livingston he’s finished… There’s really nothing NOT to like about this deal as a Knickerbocker

[NYK2010Participant]

 Knicks upgrade the PG spot he’s probably the best PG they’ve had since Marbury.  Felton had 2/3 of a good season and they moved him to Denver.  If they sign a decent Center they’ll have upgraded the team.  Not sure why they didn’t go after Rondo, Lin, Conley but maybe Phil has a plan who knows. Grant could be a decent bench player but he doesn’t seem like a starter.   Lopez was solid but obviously he’s not his brother and not an elite big man. If Afflalo resigns and they add a defensive Center the Knicks have a decent team that needs a better bench.  Rose/Afflalo/Melo/KP/Noah that is probably the best or 2nd best Knicks team in the last 15 years.

I wouldn’t want Howard for 25 mill or whatever the max contract is for him especially since he’s not that young or healthy anymore.  At worst the Knicks are in the lottery this season and have their own pick at least.  

[NYK2010Participant]

 Knicks upgrade the PG spot he’s probably the best PG they’ve had since Marbury.  Felton had 2/3 of a good season and they moved him to Denver.  If they sign a decent Center they’ll have upgraded the team.  Not sure why they didn’t go after Rondo, Lin, Conley but maybe Phil has a plan who knows. Grant could be a decent bench player but he doesn’t seem like a starter.   Lopez was solid but obviously he’s not his brother and not an elite big man. If Afflalo resigns and they add a defensive Center the Knicks have a decent team that needs a better bench.  Rose/Afflalo/Melo/KP/Noah that is probably the best or 2nd best Knicks team in the last 15 years.

I wouldn’t want Howard for 25 mill or whatever the max contract is for him especially since he’s not that young or healthy anymore.  At worst the Knicks are in the lottery this season and have their own pick at least.  

[HitsterParticipant]

 The deal doesn’t have a lot of risk for the Knicks as D-Rose will be in the last year of his deal and if he plays well next year he can earn a nice new contract with the Knicks. Calderon is pushing 35 now and only has one year left on his deal so Chicago can use him as an expiring deal.

Robin Lopez fills a need in Chicago’a frontcourt if Noah or Pau Gasol move on.

Not a great return for the Bulls considering how great a pre injury D-Rose was but with him going into his last year they have got some return on him.

It will be interesting to see what the Bulls do if they get any serious offers for Jimmy Butler now as if the FAs move on and with Gibson and Calderon in the last year of deals they could easily blow it up and go for rebuild. 

Chicago will have some cap space so can still chase a decent FA or two and rebuild around Butler, Lopez, Mirotic and co.

 

 

 

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 The deal doesn’t have a lot of risk for the Knicks as D-Rose will be in the last year of his deal and if he plays well next year he can earn a nice new contract with the Knicks. Calderon is pushing 35 now and only has one year left on his deal so Chicago can use him as an expiring deal.

Robin Lopez fills a need in Chicago’a frontcourt if Noah or Pau Gasol move on.

Not a great return for the Bulls considering how great a pre injury D-Rose was but with him going into his last year they have got some return on him.

It will be interesting to see what the Bulls do if they get any serious offers for Jimmy Butler now as if the FAs move on and with Gibson and Calderon in the last year of deals they could easily blow it up and go for rebuild. 

Chicago will have some cap space so can still chase a decent FA or two and rebuild around Butler, Lopez, Mirotic and co.

 

 

 

 

[bigheavyParticipant]

 If Rose is on the court for nearly the full season, I think this is the year that he puts it back together. If he can put up atleast 19 and 7 and everybody is healthy the Knicks could be force in the East if they add a few pieces. Players like Aaron Afflalo, Joakim Noah, Joe Johnson, Mozgov or even Festus Ezeli could push them over the top. A few defenders and shooters, they a problem. 

[bigheavyParticipant]

 If Rose is on the court for nearly the full season, I think this is the year that he puts it back together. If he can put up atleast 19 and 7 and everybody is healthy the Knicks could be force in the East if they add a few pieces. Players like Aaron Afflalo, Joakim Noah, Joe Johnson, Mozgov or even Festus Ezeli could push them over the top. A few defenders and shooters, they a problem. 

[Troache1Participant]

 The New York Knicks: Where players go to die. Let the Isiah Thomas begin…again.

[Troache1Participant]

 The New York Knicks: Where players go to die. Let the Isiah Thomas begin…again.

[DolanCareParticipant]

 Knick fan here. Absolutely fine with this trade. I don’t care if some other team throws a gazillion dollars at Rose next year and he leaves, let him, at least we get cap space. Right now the Knicks are over the cap, draft pickless and can’t even try for a rebuild with Melo stuck in NY. 

Cap space + Porzingis = A future. 

If Rose turns out to be a solid starter again then the Knicks are golden. 

Dwight would be nice to have as it would allow Porzingis to play limited minutes and develop his body more. That said, I’m fine with Porzingis playing 15 minutes center, 15 minutes at PF, with some generic big man filling in here and there. 

 

 

 

[DolanCareParticipant]

 Knick fan here. Absolutely fine with this trade. I don’t care if some other team throws a gazillion dollars at Rose next year and he leaves, let him, at least we get cap space. Right now the Knicks are over the cap, draft pickless and can’t even try for a rebuild with Melo stuck in NY. 

Cap space + Porzingis = A future. 

If Rose turns out to be a solid starter again then the Knicks are golden. 

Dwight would be nice to have as it would allow Porzingis to play limited minutes and develop his body more. That said, I’m fine with Porzingis playing 15 minutes center, 15 minutes at PF, with some generic big man filling in here and there. 

 

 

 

[machu46Participant]

I don’t think people realize just how bad Rose was last year.  Over the whole season, his VORP, BPM, and WS/48 are worse than Calderon’s was.  His TS% for the season was worse than MCW, and he doesn’t really do anything besides score anymore.  Even towards the end of the year when he was better, his TS% was only 52%.  He was one of the worst starters at any position in the entire league.

The trade makes sense if it’s about creating cap space for next season, but if they sign Dwight or Noah long-term, that reasoning goes out the window.

 

[machu46Participant]

I don’t think people realize just how bad Rose was last year.  Over the whole season, his VORP, BPM, and WS/48 are worse than Calderon’s was.  His TS% for the season was worse than MCW, and he doesn’t really do anything besides score anymore.  Even towards the end of the year when he was better, his TS% was only 52%.  He was one of the worst starters at any position in the entire league.

The trade makes sense if it’s about creating cap space for next season, but if they sign Dwight or Noah long-term, that reasoning goes out the window.

 

[r377Participant]

Bulls won this.

No way is Rose and Melo going to mesh and play well together. Whether they get Dwight Howard or not they are not going to get out of the first round of the playoffs for the next few seasons (until the melonoma contract expires) At best they are a 7th or 8th seed….

Lopez is underrated – he is an above average centre who hustles and plays hard. Jerian Grant I thought was a good prospect coming out of the draft, he could well develop into a starting PG.

Rose isn’t a great teammate, he is not a pass first PG. Injury concerns are legit, if not this season but following seasons aswell….Melo and Dwight also staying healthy is unlikely

[r377Participant]

Bulls won this.

No way is Rose and Melo going to mesh and play well together. Whether they get Dwight Howard or not they are not going to get out of the first round of the playoffs for the next few seasons (until the melonoma contract expires) At best they are a 7th or 8th seed….

Lopez is underrated – he is an above average centre who hustles and plays hard. Jerian Grant I thought was a good prospect coming out of the draft, he could well develop into a starting PG.

Rose isn’t a great teammate, he is not a pass first PG. Injury concerns are legit, if not this season but following seasons aswell….Melo and Dwight also staying healthy is unlikely

[r377Participant]

Its funny I bet the same kids a few seasons ago predicting the Melo, Amare, Chandler Knicks teams would make the Eastern Finals are the same ones jumping up and down in excitement thinking Rose will actually make the Knicks a good team…..

[r377Participant]

Its funny I bet the same kids a few seasons ago predicting the Melo, Amare, Chandler Knicks teams would make the Eastern Finals are the same ones jumping up and down in excitement thinking Rose will actually make the Knicks a good team…..

[Author]

Posts