[valentine]

 now that the bulls are winning without rose, its time to notice that rose doesn’t exactly carry on his back this bulls team, like many think it is. last year he got mvp mainly because of this reason. now don’t get me wrong, rose is really awsome, and a top 5 pg. but the bulls are a great team without him or with.

not to mention, last year for all i know, they were a statistically better defensive team with rose in the bench.

 

[sheltwon3Participant]

You underestimate Rose overall value.  Chi town is championship caliber team that can survive for a while missing their best player because they have other all Star caliber players just like sometimes OKC is a better defensive team without Durant but they are not nearly as deadly without him for long stretches.

[Hi its BenParticipant]

not to mention, last year for all i know, they were a statistically better defensive team with rose in the bench.

yeah. when you have boozer out there on the court it doesnt help. but the second unit has taj instead who can guard 3 positions on the floor which greatly improves the second unit’s defense.

[GottaBeTheShoesParticipant]

Without Rose, the bulls are barely a playoff team.  This thread is irrelevant.

[MJ FOR LIFE 23Participant]

The team only steps up without him but they can only keep it up for so long. Rose is a game-breaker, in clutch situations you want to give him the ball, if the team’s struggling he steps on the gas pedal, if you need a leader he’s the one you turn. There’s a reason they got to over 60 wins last season and that’s because of Rose.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

They’re a Denver Nugget type team because of their depth and team success but Rose is what makes them contendors.

[Tiger1313Participant]

Sure a team can go without it’s star for a couple of games and have enough talent to win those games but if you took Rose out of the lineup for say half the season then I believe their record takes a significant hit

He’s the clutch player and the one they go to in crunch time..last year there were a lot of games won BECAUSE of Rose in those situations. 

[DanEboyParticipant]

They can win now, but they can’t win in the playoffs without him. The Heat are 8-1 without Wade, I guess he is over cretited too, or however you want to spell over credited.

The Bulls are 5-2 without Rose, the teams they have beat:

Wizards, Cavs, Suns and the Bobcats twice. A combined 34-105 record between them.

This thread is ridiculous.

[Future_Scout]

i agree with all the comments, how they need him in the clutch and in the playoffs, but what im trying to say is, he doesn’t put this team on his back like the media pictured it last year.

danEboy, no 1 really says wade puts the heat on his back

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

 I was saying this last season when I was arguing that D. Howard should be MVP over Rose. The Bulls have this incredible defensive unit on their bench. Most NBA teams have a few guys who can’t play defense on their bench and that is why they hide them there and just spot play those guys. The Bulls players 6 through 10 would be an above average NBA defensive team if they were starting. That is actually kind of amazing when you look at other teams second units that include guys like Mike Bibby. Rose is fantastic, but the Bulls still outscored teams when he was on the bench last year and they are outscoring teams when he is on the bench this year. Of course they wouldn’t a contender without Rose and they wouldn’t win anywhere close to 60 wins, but making the playoffs would be a given.  Their defense is just that good. 

[JoeWolf1]

 He totally carries that Bulls team, on offense.

It was evident in the Lakers game, the very first game of the year when neither team was playing well, that D-Rose put his team on his shoulders on offense.  Then the defense closed the game.

 When the Bulls were struggling to get it going in the first 2 rounds of the playoffs, Derrick Rose put the game on his back and won a few of those games.  When you watch the Bulls play, you know their strategy is to play awesome defense, which sometimes blows teams out by halftime.  When it doesn’t blow a team out or if the Bulls are behind, then it’s pretty clear that Rose is then in the drivers seat to carry the load offensively.

It’s very much a team effort in Chicago, but Rose does carry the load on offense and with him in the lineup they would have beat the Celtics on Sunday.  They had no one to goto down the stretch when their defense got them back in the game.

 

[bjcart53Participant]

 Another thing that is understated is a team’s ability to win whenever the star player is driven like rose. It causes the team to rally in the absence of their star player. The culture has been established and therefore they are surviving through this stretch but if you are talking long haul you don’t win very many games. If this team was without rose do you think they would believe in themselves as far as winning it all?

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

I totally agree with the phsycological influence that a great star who really gives his all can have on a team. And I credit Rose for that. He sets the tone, puts in the work in the off season, puts in the work and effort on the court and the rest of the team feeds off that. But you also cannot ignore that at this point of the season, Rose has only played in about 60% of the Bulls minutes. The other 40% of this season, they are playing without Rose on the floor (either because he is injured or just the normal 15 minutes or so a game where Rose doesn’t play). During that time, the Bulls are beating their opponents pretty badly. Not as bad as when Rose is on the floor, but still pretty bad. It is kind of like when Lebron sits. Do the Heat play worse? Yes. But the Heat are still a good team when they can field Wade and Bosh. 

This is different from the situation at, for example, Orlando or Phoenix. When Howard or Nash aren’t on the court, their teams fall apart and they become losing teams. Nash basically won the MVP a few years because we got to see Phoenix try to play without him and it was just ugly. (Which kind of reminds of the Knicks pre-Linsanity.) Anyway, I think it is worth pointing out that the Bulls are more than just a one person team. They are deep and play great defense. 

[bjcart53Participant]

 That is absolutely correct TallymanNYC

[Michael.S.Participant]

I agree with DanEboy, JoeWolf and the like.

[Maniac MaciejParticipant]

Let’s take a look at the games played without Mr. Rose.

1. Washington – W
2. Memphis – L
3. Phoenix – W
4. Cleveland  – W
5. Charlotte – W
6. New Orleans – W
7. Charlotte – W
8. Boston – L

So, they’ve played 2 teams at or above .500 without him and lost them both.

[Maniac MaciejParticipant]

Trade D-Rose for Dwight Howard, and which team improves more, Orlando or Chicago? 

[Michael.S.Participant]

Orlando gets worse as well as Chi.

[tuck243Participant]

D. Rose have clutch moments both defensively and offensively…  He conserves his energy and doesn’t play D like he should BUT he will hold his man at the end of the game…  To spill this non sense is beyond ridiculous…  I knew someone on this site would post this when I saw it on NBA Tv yesterday…   This is perfect example when believing in stats goes wrong…  Also learn how to spell, wtf is over cretited??

[M-DYMESParticipant]

Too recieve more credit than one deserves.  It isn’t a horribly difficult concept to grasp.  That makes more sense than saying one is overrated. 

I think he gets a just amount of credit.  Everyone acknowledges that this is a good team.  Rose does carry them on offense though, and plays solid D when necessary.  He’s the gamebreaker though and is reckognized as such.  He’s the leader by his play and vocally.  He’s a professional and his professionality rubs off on his teammates. 

 

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

 one of the dumbest posts ive ever seen…shouldve known with how you misspelled "credited"

[JNixonParticipant]

 Lol, if you dont see the difference between Derrick Rose, CJ Watson, and John Lucas III I have no idea what to tell you

[db24kb24Participant]

 Cretited he deserves!

[M-DYMESParticipant]

my bad tuck lol.  Didn’t see the mispelling error.  I just appreciated that he was going with a new term instead of what everyone goes with saying overrated or underrated. 

[Future_Scout]

 "I knew someone on this site would post this when I saw it on NBA Tv yesterday"

expept i didn’t see anything on nba tv… i dont even have it!

and you guys are fools for making such a big deal out of ONE grammatical error. not to mention saying this is a dumb thread, as if i was saying the bulls don’t need rose.

said it before, i’ll say it again… bulls are a great team without rose and with.

 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Because, I do not think they did. Plus Rajon Rondo destroyed them. Yes, Rondo played well against Rose in the play-offs before, but Rose was with him step for step. They are a good team without Derrick Rose. They are able to crush teams that genuinely suck. With Derrick Rose, they are an elite team. They had the best record in the league last year and were elite because of Derrick Rose.

They are a strong defensive team without him, but the reason the Bulls have the best record in the East is because of last seasons MVP. He absolutely deserves the credit he has received as when healthy, he tends to be pretty freaking incredible. If you want a team to be in limbo, take Derrick Rose off the Chicago Bulls. I do not understand the logic of taking anything away for the Bulls having a decent supporting cast.

It is fairly clear that Derrick Rose is the major thing that gives them an edge. Remember, they lost Boozer and Noah for large stretches of last season and still finished with the Leagues top record. If the Bulls do not have Rose in the play-offs, they are not competing for a championship. If you want to say a team is good, that is one thing. But, they are not even close to being great without a guy who is bar none their best player and one of the leagues best as well.

[db24kb24Participant]

I just think there is no possible way Rose is overrated. He is a big game performer, plays both ends, takes big shots and makes big shots, and is a leader. His cool/even demeanor on court gives the bulls that quiet confidence and swag. What flaws about his game are you questioning?

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

to his defense, hes not saying Rose is "over-rated", just that he is "over-credited"…

but to say they are a great team with or without Rose is insane…with him they CAN be great, without him they are merely above-average 

[GrandmamaParticipant]

lol "over-cretited"….at least spell the sh*t correctly if you’re going to post something this dumb.  If I were Aran I’d ban people for posts like this.

[PulseGlazerParticipant]

Tom Thibodeau is as big a difference as Rose, or damned close.  Why hasn’t he been mentioned yet?

[marcusfizer21Participant]

@cretited…

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

 Another win last night for Rose-less Bulls last night. This time against the Celtics. Bulls are 8 and 2 in last ten games. I think all of them without Rose. 

[Future_Scout]

 bulls are the best defensive team in the league (they held boston to 25 at halftime?) and tops in team chemistry. all they lack is a go to guy when rose is out, it was evident yesterday when boston was making a comeback. people don’t give enough credit to the bulls imo, specially national media last year. they play to rose strength by crashing the o rebounds as good as anyone as anyone when rose is shooting under 40%.

[Future_Scout]

if you take rose out of the bulls they are a playoff team. if you take dwight howard out of orl. they would be one of the worst teams in the east

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