[IlladelphParticipant]

Just enjoying the drama of the NBA playoffs and really marveling at how far the sixers have come in the last year or two.  It is popular now to talk about trusting "The Process", and unfortunately other teams are going to think that tanking for 3 or 4 years and hoping for #1 draft picks will be a good idea… ugh.

But, I got curious about how successful the Sixers were in building this current team by TTP.  I wound up looking at the HS rankings and draft classes over the last few years, and pretty much the process produced 2 superstars: Joel Embiid, and Ben Simmons.  It’s debatable whether the Sixers could have just traded everyone away and tried to buy a couple of superstars versus the way that they did it.  But in the end, it seems, that Sam Hinkie will be vindicated especially if the Sixers make it out of the East alive.  Philadelphia might even welcome Hinkie back and give him a half-time golf clap.  

When I was looking back at all of the draft classes from that era, I noticed how Philly had epically won with Embiid and Simmons.  But I also noticed huge whiffs as well.  Starting with the 2014 draft, Philly strikes gold with Embiid at #3.  There is no one else in the draft that year that remotely comes close to how great Embiid has turned out to be.  Andrew Wiggins?  No.  Not even close.  Then the 2015 draft, omg.  Jahlil Okafor at #3 when KP, Devin Booker, and several other better players were still on the board.  Okafor will go down as an epic bust for Philly at #3.  2016, the Sixers finally get the #1 draft pick and they strike gold again with Ben Simmons.  2017, the jury is still out but Fultz isn’t the superstar he was hoped to be.  Perhaps he will develop over time but right now he is not on the Embiid, Simmons, level of #1 draft picks.  Though there aren’t that many PGs in the 2017 draft who would have been that much better.  I think Deaaron Fox would have been much better, or Dennis Smith.

Overall I think that "The Process" was kind of a bad joke that got taken wayyyyy too far by an analytics weenie.  But because Embiid and Simmons came out of all of that pain and struggle, it now looks like "The Process" was worth it.  But just imagine if the Sixers had take KP, instead of Okafor…  or what if they had taken Dante Exum, or Aaron Gordon instead instead of Embiid?  Could’ve happened.  I think that the process worked because of luck mostly, and not because of Sam Hinkie.  But whatever, the Sixers are damn good so keep on trusting the process…

 

[HobbyOGParticipant]

 Not luck..the process got them high draft picks. Typically you draft the best players with the high picks. Dude knew what he was doing. I agree they should of took KP and Sam Heinke wanted to draft KP but his bosses wanted Okafor…not his faught. 

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 If they would have drafted KP instead of Jahlil we would have been looking at the 2nd coming of the Space Jam Monstarzzz! That’s really scary to think about. J J Reddick would have looked Soo odd in a Starting lineup of KP, Simmons, Embiid and Convington.

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

I think Porzingis would’ve gotten this team more wins possibly than Okafor, although Okafor was a decent rookie…which means less likely the Sixers get lucky and get the #1 pick and Ben Simmons.

I’d rather have Ben and Jo than Porzingis and Jo…

But there is a chance the Sixers would’ve had a shot at Jamal Murray in the Simmons draft.  Jamal Murray Porzingis and Embiid would be a really nice trio.

 

Anyway, the Process was lucky because they got Embiid.  I’ve said this before, Josh Harris made his money at Apollo doing the exact same thing.  Breaking things down and building them up.  It was his idea, and Hinkie was the executor.  They def got lucky on where they ended up in the draft.  They could’ve ended up with Jabari Parker and Okafor…you just never know.

 

This is NOT the first time teams have picked in the top 3 several times in a couple years.  Let’s look at hte Lakers who picked top 3 the last 3 years.  Ingram, Lonzo, D’angelo Russell, and Julius Randle at the 4th pick.  Look at Orlando, they flat out stink.  Its not like Sacramento is turning their ship around.

Philly unabashedly processed and it looked bad since they traded away Jrue Holiday and others, but they got really unlucky with the Bynum stuff prior to that so they had to do something about it. They got lucky to have Simmons and Embiid…two cornerstones for your franchise, two hall of famers.   

If Philly drafted Demarcus Cousins instead of Evan Turner, we might have Holiday, Korver, Iguodala, Thad Young, and Cousins on the sixrs today with Jodie Meeks Nik Vucevic and Harkless on our bench plus some draft picks the last few years in some very deep drafts.  THats just how it goes.

 

There was a LOT of hate on the Sixers, a LOT of hate on injury prone Embiid, but hey, where y’all at now?  lol.  

 

 

[Dell87Participant]

 yep. just made good picks . Simmonds Embid Saric

 compare that to what the warriors did years ago.  drafted 

curry 

Thompson 

barnes

Green 

now the flip side is Sacramento. Terrible drafting 

 

Evans

Cousins 

Jimmer

Thomas Robinson

McLemore

Stauskas

Cauley Stein

Criss.    

see what I mean?  t The Kings with the exception of Evans and Cousins has drafted terribly . The difference between dynasties and doormats in any sport comes down to drafting 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[usfballerParticipant]

 Why does it seem like no one give Hinke credit for the trades he made? The Process was about swinging for the fences with EVERY move. Remember when MCW won RoY? Hinke and Brett Brown both agreed he wasn’t a home run (ie. franchise talent), only a single who played like a double as a rookie. So what do they do? Flip him for an extra pick and another home run swing.  To beat this baseball analogy to death, anytime you are only swinging for the fences, you are bound to strike out a few times. It wasn’t luck that the two of their gazillion lotto picks that ended up franchise talents stayed in Philly. With the exception of Okafor the Sixers made up their minds early enough to recoup draft picks for players they knew weren’t going to be cornerstones. 

Not to mention the fact that because so many of their picks either were hurt or stashed overseas, there were enough minutes to discover guys like Covington and McConnell.  

You can argue whether The Process was good or bad for basketball, but not the execution and success of it. IMO

 

 

[Robb_CParticipant]

The way Hinkie operate was nothing short of a weasel.. 

He’s not a genius or anything of that nature.. he merely just hedged his position against other gms positions and gain valuable assets because he knew gms would give em up to save their ass while he marketed the "process"

He took advantage of GMs with a sense of urgency trying to make deals to save their jobs.. nothing more nothing less, if every GM had the same approach the guy would be another run of the mill gm

 

[220Participant]

 There’s always a degree of luck when the draft is involved. You can take the right player only for them to miss out on their potential due to injury. In the case of Joel Embiid, the Sixers got him because of his injuries. If he was healthy he wouldn’t have fallen to the Sixers. If Embiid was healthy sooner the 76ers likely never get Simmons so there was luck in the misfortune.

Hinkie made some good moves when acquiring draft picks. The deal with the Kings especially set the Sixers up with two pick swaps, one of which swapped them into getting the 3rd pock, along with an unprotected first round pick. Hinkie was always smart to sell high on MCW who put up good numbers, but was a turnover machine who was incredibly inefficient.

With all that being said there have been many teams with multiple years in a row of lottery picks that never managed to get an Embiid or Simmons. There was no guarantee The Process would work and it put the Sixers under immense pressure from the league. It seems as though Commissioner Adam Silver is determined to insure that The Process is never duplicated with the lottery reform and his continued talk of eliminating the incentive to tanking.

 

 

 

 

 

[HawklanParticipant]

they could only Pick Simmons because Embiid was out and the same is for Fultz with Simmons and Embiid out for (most of) season. This is luck, nobody can foresee something like that.

[220Participant]

 Actually it’s a little bit different with Fultz as the 76ers pick in the 2017 draft was acquired through a prior pick swap with the Sacramento Kings. The 76ers could have had the league’s best record and they would have still gotten to swap picks with the Kings.

[holefillers1Participant]

 The Skill was acquiring diamonds in the rough like Roco and McConnell while obtaining "potentially" #1 draft picks.  The luck was landing Embiid and Simmons.  

 

But think on this.  Hinkie past on Giannis twice in the ’13 draft.  If Hinkie used either of the Noel or MCW picks on Giannis then the Sixer s probably aren’t in a position to draft Embiid the following year and they definitely don’t get Simmons two years later.  That is dumb luck right there.  So even if you tank and trade all assets for draft picks, you still have to get lucky because Giannis was the right pick in ’13 but who wouldn’t rather have Embiid and Simmons in ’18?

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 The process was nothing new this has been going on in every major American team sports league for 30 years. Only difference is the 76ers marketed the hell out of it, labelled it ”the process” so season ticket holders wouldnt be upset and did whatever they could to sell thier fanbase on tanking.

Was it luck? Well not really. They set a goal, executed the tasks and eventually accomplished thier goals. Im pretty sure Hinkie would have drafted Embiid no matter what. He seemed to like the idea of not having to play him for a while due to his injury so he could tank and alot of people thought Embiid had the highest potential in that class anyways. As far as drafting Simmons and getting the lottery balls to bounce thier way I dont think that was luck either. They tanked for 4 seasons before getting a 1st overall pick.

[HitsterParticipant]

 Noel, MCW, Okafor all didn’t work out. Embiid they had to wait for, same with Simmons and Saric ( when he came over). Fultz the jury is still totally out on. So out of 7 key picks we’ve had 3 hits, 3 misses and one up in the air.

Hinkie did good deals to get picks back and adding some good complimentary players around the key guys but the process is still open to question.

The classic rebuild has been to clear out high earners, use cap space to take salary dumps  and get assets in return whilst hoing for high draft picks via lottery. What Hinkie did wasn’t rocket science and if another team wanted to go into rebuild  he could be the guy to oversee the "dirty work" but the fine tuning might be better left to another.

 

 

[BeastMode716Participant]

 And unless you explain the Bynum trade & the Historical Negative Impact on the Sixers Franchise & the DEEP Hole it put Phila’s new Ownership & the Organization in then you can Not possibly Properly Evaluate what the Sixers did or did not accomplsh w/ "The Process" 

This is called CONTEXT & No Story can be Told or even Understood without it

At Sam Hinkie’s very 1st Press Conference he Outlined the Massive Damage caused by the ill fated Bynum deal & he explained his plan for a Radical REBUILD in Philadelphia 

The Andrew Bynum trade was Worse than the Nets / Celtics deal. In July of 2012 The 76ers had just come within ONE game of meeting Lebron James & the Miami Heat in the Eastern Conference Finals. Sixers coach Doug Collins believed he was ONE Major p

 

 

 

[BeastMode716Participant]

 In short, Phila’s previous GM & Coach gave up 2 Starters & 3 – 1st round picks for Bynum & Bynum Never played a single game in Phila 

In addition, they had Max’d out their Salary Cap signing decent but not great core of Thad Young, Jrue Holiday, Evan Turner & a handful of other avg NBA players. 

Phila allowed themselves to take a suckers bet b/c they were Desperate to get out from under a Massive contract they gave Andre Igudola & they really were Dumb in believing Andrew Bynum’s chronic Knees were gonna get Better w/ Age. 

This is the Emergency Sam Hinkie walked into in May 2013 – just Weeks before the Draft Lottery 

See the Whole LUCK argument is Brand New b/c the former argument was "The Process is Never gonna Work" & obviously no one can use that warped Logic anymore

But Understand the HOLE that the Phila Franchise was in in May 2013 just ONE year after being a Playoff Team 

So Hinkie – at his VERY 1st Press Conference outlined the situation – I’ll paraprhase what he said but you can look it up on U-Tube. Hinkie explained that the Sixers Ownership wanted to "compete for NBa Titles" but to do that the Sixers MUST acquire a STAR player in which to Build Around

There were ONLY 3 ways to acquire Star players Hinkie told the Media & the City of Philadelphia that day nearly 5 years ago: Trade, Free Agency or Draft

"Trade is Out b/c the last GM just spent ALL of our viable assets on Andrew Bynum & he is GONE. Free Agency is OUT b/c No Max Free Agent is coming to Phila to play w/ THIS team & even if one wanted to our Cap is a MESS – So our ONLY option is the Draft – but we just traded our 2012, 2015 & 2017 – 1st Rnd picks" 

Hinkie than Explained the Process – My Plan is to kill 2 birds w/ One stone – use the good players we do have left in TIMELY trades to acquire Draft picks, This will serve 2 purposes b/c it will Clear our Cap Space – we can then USE that Cap space at the Trade Deadline when teams are Desperate to Off Load Bloated Salary to sign players for playoff runs & we can acquire Future Drafts picks in exchange for taking on Bad Salary" 

If we do this for 3 – 5 years we can at least stock pile Draft Picks, Acquire Young players & Develop them in Our culture & the Collective Bargaining Agreement gives teams a Massive benefit by Developing their Own Talent they have the Larry Bird rule to KEEP those young players – but it’s going to be Rough for a LONG time b/c we have a Massive Hole to dig ourselves out of" 

But our Goal is that if we can land a Top 5 Draft Pick every year for 3 – 5 years we can "Hit" on One Star to have as the Foundation of the Franchise"

Hinkie then hired who he believed was a Perfect Developmental coach – San Antonio Spurs long time assistant Brett Brown – Hinkie wanted Brown to Build a "Spurs East Culture" in Phila & the Entire organization would work together to dig themselves out of this Awful situation

At the time, Experts believed the Sixers would be Rebuilding for a Decade or more just to get back to .500 – that’s the extent of the damage that was done BEFORE Sam Hinkie arrived 

Remember – Hinkie had the #11 pick in the 2013 Draft – One 2014 1st Rnd pick – No 2015 1st round pick – One 2016 1st Round pick & No 2017 1st Round pick —— That’s 3 – 1st Round picks in 5 years & No roster 

36 months later Hinkie turned those 3 – 1st round picks over 5 years into 13 – 1st round picks & close to 20 – 2nd round picks between 2013 – 2019

The Sixers had acquired Joel Embiid, Dario Saric, Ben Simmons & developed Robert Covington from a D-Leaguer. & they Still have a Ton of 1st round picks Plus Tons of Cap Space to sign ANY Max Free Agent they want – Obviously they Missed on some picks, but batting .1000 was Never the Goal. 

This team is now the Envy of the NBA – so was "The Process" Luck? Sure if you have the Balls & the Vision to take a Job NO ONE else wanted – to tear up a historical franchise down to the roots & Rebuild the Entire Organization from the ground up – Including a Brand New Culture rooted directly in the History & Character of the City & you have the DRIVE to go in to Work Every day & Lead when the Entire World is not only against but Lying about your intentions & your plans then yea I guess there was some luck involved

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[holefillers1Participant]

This is what Philly fans understood. You painted a perfect picture BeastMode. There was no signing players and trying to get an 8 seed because there was no money. There was no building through the draft because there were no picks. Here is the timeline as I remember as a Sixers fan for those who didnt live the process and rely on commentary from Brian Windhorst who called it a six year process(hater, clown)…

-2013 Draft- trade Holiday for Noel(Noel is injured and wont play next year so we will suck for one year and go "Winless for Wiggins"

-2014 Draft- even though we eventually traded away Thad Young and Evan Turner we still weren’t the worst team in the league and received the 3rd pick in the draft. So we go winless for Wiggens and end up with an injured Embiid who will also miss a season plus we aqcuired a ton of picks this year through trades and buyouts and also traded MCW for Saric who BTW isn’t coming over for two years. We now have Nerlens Noel and a bunch of D-League guys. Another tank year is coming but with the potential of Embiid there is hope. And we are unearthing talent by sifting through vertually every player in the D-League.

-2015 Draft- we sucked and every fan new we would but what is the point of drafting 6-10 when you are still building a team. Continue to trust the process. So once again we are not the worst team in the league and we land the 3rd pick. Okafor is insurance for Embiid who will MISS ANOTHER SEASON…F***, F***, F***. No one saw this coming and this is where there was a rift in the process. Some fans thought it would never work because we still hadnt hit on a player and Embiid was Oden2.0 others were tired of intentionally losing because it was bad karma or bad for the league or bad sportsmanship. The people who still trusted the process said we have gone this far, lets continue to tank hard after Simmons and then if Embiid is able to play then we are good. It was essentially one last tank to end all tanks.

-2016 Draft- TANKED WORKED!…SIMMONS IS HERE! Embiid is healthy and he looks like a beast, the tanking is over and we can build this team to a championship. It took a year longer but it was worth it and now we can begin to win games. This is were the Process culminated for me. Simmons goes on to get hurt and misses the year. Embiid Gets hurt again, Dario comes over and looks good but we end up tanking the last portion of the season. This is not the same tank that the process was about because Silver stepped in and Colangelo ousted Hinkie and as it turns out even when Hinkie isn’t there you still tank when your best players are out.

The process could have been… Nerlens Noel and Wiggins and build from there…glad it wasnt The process could have been… Embiid is never going to be healthy so lets sign the Allen Crabbes and Evan Turner types to $70 mil deals and try to compete again for and 8 seed…glad we didn’t. The Process morphed and evolved and drug its feet and frustrated and intrigued and left the league scratching its head as to what it was really witnessing. The bootom line is after four drafts we had two franchise players. Injurues played a huge part in all this and that is once again where the trust came in.  You can say teams are able to build contenders a more traditional way but the fans aren’t the GM and we are all just along for the ride so when you have hopes dashed by injury and you are able to survive all that while getting your star players at the end. You chant Trust the Process durin a playoff game and think about the wild ride that brought us to this point.

[HitsterParticipant]

 The Bynum trade was a disaster for Philly giving up Vucevic and especially Iggy. Evan Turner didn’t turn out to be the player they had hoped he would be although I still feel Hinkie gave him away for peanuts. Holiday has only just got back to his trade time form so cashing in on him could be considered a good move but Noel wasn’t the greatest pick with the resulting draft pick.

Embiid was drafted injured, Saric didn’t come over but those moves have come up trumps since.

 

[220Participant]

 The Jrue Holiday trade also got them the pick that eventually got them Dario Saric and helped them get a first round pick back they gave to Orlando from the horrid Bynum trade.

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 It actually took a lot of guts to draft embiid. They took him knowing full well he would miss his entire rookie season and that there were real questions about his ability to stay healthy going forward. You have to remember that while he showed a lot of potential at Kansas, his game was still pretty raw and he wasn’t even able to make it through the entire season. The oden comparisons and questions about his health scared off both Cleveland and Milwaukee from taking him. Philadelphia could have easily went with a more proven player who was considered to be less of a risk in what was considered to be a very strong lottery at the time.

So when people say Hinkie just lucked into drafting embiid, it’s true in a way because there is always a certain element of luck involved with any draft pick. However, it’s not really a fair assessment. Hinkie was willing to take a risk (which ultimately contributed to his demise) that others weren’t willing to take. You have to give him some credit for that. 

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 The Saric deal was a good one. Embiid was one of the top 3 players in 2014 draft and there was a drop off after him. So taking him 3rd and waiting a year, I think a few teams would have done, Philly had done the same with Noel a year earlier so knew what they were doing.

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