[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Kevin Love.

Blake Griffin.

Both players are having monster seasons, but their teams are losing. There has been a lot of conversation lately about how those players shouldn’t be All-Stars because their teams aren’t winning.

Well… What is the difference between a player who just doesn’t have enough help on his team to win games and a player who’s just literally putting up meaningless numbers in losses?

I don’t care how great a player is. One player can’t do it by himself. Where do we draw the line? Is it fair to punish Griffin because he’s played majority of the season with the youngest starting lineup in the NBA and other than Eric Gordon, nobody contributes consistently?

What makes Paul Millsap more deserving of an All-Star appearance than Love or Griffin? Is it because he plays with the best point guard in the league? Is it because he’s on a good defensive *team*? Or is it because he’s coached by a Hall of Fame coach? Because he certaintly isn’t better than Love or Griffin. I guess the T-Wolves and Clippers would be better teams if they had Millsap instead of Love and Griffin!

I’m all for awarding great players on good teams, but I don’t think it’s fair to overlook a player who’s having a great season just because he doesn’t have enough help on a bad team.

[joecheck88Participant]

the hard thing about griffin and loves situations is their rebounding. they both rebound very well and i think that would translate on any team. no player, on a good or bad team has out up 30 and 30 since 1982. and i dont remember many rookies putting up 20 and 12, and there have been alot of rookies on bad teams. but i also think millsap and odoms lesser numbers are evened out by more wins. so really its just an opinion on wheter you value stats more or wins more. me personally, i think odom should get the nod this year over the other 3 guys mentioned(griffin, love and millsap) because he has played outstanding all year helping keep this lakers ship afloat without bynum. plus, i think that he deserves an all star appearance after his long career. i know all stars are a once a year thing but i also think in alot of peoples minds, that over time, guys just seem like they should get the nod(like sam cassell a few years ago).

so, my point is that i think 15, 10 and 3 on a great team like the lakers is better than 20 and 10(or 15 in loves sake) on a bad team. maybe if the clippers or wolves were closer to 500 ball it would be less of an issue, but their teams are very bad. and in millsaps case, idk really know. he just doesnt really sound like an all star. he just plays hard and gets numbers and no love, lol.

[joecheck88Participant]

the hard thing about griffin and loves situations is their rebounding. they both rebound very well and i think that would translate on any team. no player, on a good or bad team has out up 30 and 30 since 1982. and i dont remember many rookies putting up 20 and 12, and there have been alot of rookies on bad teams. but i also think millsap and odoms lesser numbers are evened out by more wins. so really its just an opinion on wheter you value stats more or wins more. me personally, i think odom should get the nod this year over the other 3 guys mentioned(griffin, love and millsap) because he has played outstanding all year helping keep this lakers ship afloat without bynum. plus, i think that he deserves an all star appearance after his long career. i know all stars are a once a year thing but i also think in alot of peoples minds, that over time, guys just seem like they should get the nod(like sam cassell a few years ago).

so, my point is that i think 15, 10 and 3 on a great team like the lakers is better than 20 and 10(or 15 in loves sake) on a bad team. maybe if the clippers or wolves were closer to 500 ball it would be less of an issue, but their teams are very bad. and in millsaps case, idk really know. he just doesnt really sound like an all star. he just plays hard and gets numbers and no love, lol.

[NYK2010Participant]

Good pt, only thing is these teams can’t be this bad for much longer.

I’m surprised both teams aren’t better than the Kings.

Griffin/Gordon and Love/Beasley are nice duos just need a consistent 3rd player to help them out.

Baron Davis should be that 3rd player if he’s in shape and not being a ball hog.

[NYK2010Participant]

Good pt, only thing is these teams can’t be this bad for much longer.

I’m surprised both teams aren’t better than the Kings.

Griffin/Gordon and Love/Beasley are nice duos just need a consistent 3rd player to help them out.

Baron Davis should be that 3rd player if he’s in shape and not being a ball hog.

[apb540Participant]

I agree. 

[apb540Participant]

I agree. 

[Sonny RedParticipant]

Stats can be misleading for a player on a bad team, but that doesn’t mean the player is not playing as good as his stats. There are some guys who put up big numbers but don’t help their team. I remember that happened with Dana Barros when he came to the Sixers in the early-mid 90’s. The Sixers were terrible then, and Barros always had the ball in his hand, and got to do whatever he wanted. When he was on a good Sonics team, he was a bench player though. He did make an all star team for the Sixers though, solely for the stats he put up.

[Sonny RedParticipant]

Stats can be misleading for a player on a bad team, but that doesn’t mean the player is not playing as good as his stats. There are some guys who put up big numbers but don’t help their team. I remember that happened with Dana Barros when he came to the Sixers in the early-mid 90’s. The Sixers were terrible then, and Barros always had the ball in his hand, and got to do whatever he wanted. When he was on a good Sonics team, he was a bench player though. He did make an all star team for the Sixers though, solely for the stats he put up.

[llperez]

i agree. For one, both guys are young and this is blakes first year and loves first year where he hasbeen giving this much freedom. To blame them for losing is premature. Plain and simple, those rosters arent that good.

However, if its very close between 2 players making the all-star team, i do think wins should be factored in. BUt if one guys is just flat out outplaying another guy, then send the better player on the losing team. Besides, i think the all-star game is more for the fans and im sure the clipper fans and wolve fans need something to cheer for.

With all that siad, i still think we need to wait on both guys. The way i see it, pau and dirk are locks. Duncan should make it as well. He is a legend and his team is one of the best in the league. That leaves 2 big man spots. Blake, love, odom and zach randolph head my list of cindidates. I would like to see odom get an invite not just becasue im a laker fan, but he has said in the past that he would like to be in and he is a great example of a guy who is not selfish and willing to sacrifice his own stats. He is currently averaging 16 and 10 while shooting 58%. Plus he should have made it in 2004 over kenyon martin.

[llperez]

i agree. For one, both guys are young and this is blakes first year and loves first year where he hasbeen giving this much freedom. To blame them for losing is premature. Plain and simple, those rosters arent that good.

However, if its very close between 2 players making the all-star team, i do think wins should be factored in. BUt if one guys is just flat out outplaying another guy, then send the better player on the losing team. Besides, i think the all-star game is more for the fans and im sure the clipper fans and wolve fans need something to cheer for.

With all that siad, i still think we need to wait on both guys. The way i see it, pau and dirk are locks. Duncan should make it as well. He is a legend and his team is one of the best in the league. That leaves 2 big man spots. Blake, love, odom and zach randolph head my list of cindidates. I would like to see odom get an invite not just becasue im a laker fan, but he has said in the past that he would like to be in and he is a great example of a guy who is not selfish and willing to sacrifice his own stats. He is currently averaging 16 and 10 while shooting 58%. Plus he should have made it in 2004 over kenyon martin.

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