[sammybuckeye13Participant]

For those following ESPN’s NBARank, it’s been pretty interesting I think. Not a ton of controversial rankings but that’s good because so far I think it’s been as accurate a reflection of the quality of the game today as you’ll find. I like that they base it on how good these guys are NOW rather than speculating.

With 31-35 announced today, we’re down to 30 and it’s not hard to tell exactly who those will be based on who’s eliminated but it’s definitely insanely hard to tell where they’ll be on the list. This is my prediction, and it’s based on how I think ESPN will rank them based on what I’ve seen so far; this isn’t a personal ranking.

There are a ton of tough calls, especially in the top 15. Will they overlook Russell Westbrook’s shot selection in the playoffs and focus on his All-NBA 2nd team season? Are they ready to rate Blake Griffin a top 15 player, as his PER would suggest? Where do Garnett and Duncan rank? How can you possibly compare Dirk Nowitzki, a veritable national hero coming who everyone just remember has been a superstar for the last decade and just won Finals MVP, against Dwight Howard? Derrick Rose was the MVP last year but on rating guys on a scale of 1-10, will he be greater than the altogether perfect Kobe Bryant?

That’s what led me to write this up, it’d be interesting to see your guys’ predictions too.

1. LeBron James
2. Dirk Nowitzki
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Dwight Howard
5. Derrick Rose
6. Kevin Durant
7. Dwyane Wade
8. Chris Paul
9. Deron Williams
10. Steve Nash
11. Kevin Love
12. Amare Stoudemire
13. Carmelo Anthony
14. Blake Griffin
15. Tim Duncan
16. Russell Westbrook
17. Pau Gasol
18. Rajon Rondo
19. LaMarcus Aldridge
20. Kevin Garnett
21. Manu Ginobili
22. Chris Bosh
23. Zach Randolph
24. Al Horford
25. Andrew Bynum
26. Paul Pierce
27. Tony Parker
28. Rudy Gay
29. Joakim Noah
30. Marc Gasol

[NickWayne87Participant]

 there’s no way in HELL Dirk is 2

[aamir543Participant]

I love Tim Duncan, and although he may be more valuable to his team than 80% of the guys on the list, I’d have to put Timmy in the late twenties, around Marc Gasol and Noah, not up there with Westbrook.

Chris Bosh ahead of Randolph?

Steve Nash at 10?

D Wade is a couple spots too low, but not a big deal.

Kobe also a couple spots too high at 3, but also not that big a deal, and as great as Dirk was in the playoffs, he should be number 4 or 5, but not 2.

[kobyzParticipant]

somthing like this:

1) Kobe Bryant

2) Dwyane Wade

3) Chris Paul

4) Dirk Nowitzki

5) LeBron James

6) Kevin Durant

7) Dwight Howard

8) Derrick Rose

9) Deron Williams

10) Paul Pierce

11) Pau Gasol

12) Amare Stoudemire

13) Tim Duncan

14) Carmelo Anthony

15) Kevin Garnett

16) Rajon Rondo

17) Blake Griffin

18) Manu Ginobili

19) LaMarcus Aldridge

20) Zach Randolph

21) Andrew Bynum

22) Steve Nash

23) Russell Westbrook

24) Joe Johnson

25) Chauncey Billups

26) Danny Granger 

27) Tony Parker

28) Al Horford

29) Chris Bosh

30) Ray Allen

————————————————————————–

31) Lamar Odom

32) Luol Deng

33) Andre Iguodala

34) Monta Ellis

35) Josh Smith

36) Marc Gasol

37) Jason Terry

38) Kevin Love

39) Rudy Gay

40) Jason Kidd

41) David West

42) Andrew Bogut

43) Gerald Wallace

44) Kevin Martin

45) Carlos Boozer

46) Tyson Chandler

47) Nene

48) Grant Hill

49) Al Jefferson

50) Jason Richardson

 

[sammybuckeye13Participant]

I share everyone’s sentiments about LeBron but there is no way he’s just the fifth best player in the league

[GrandmamaParticipant]

lmao @ John Wall not being in your top 50….and if you had watched any of the Bulls in the playoffs, there’s no way in hell you’d have Carlos Boozer @ 45…

[kobyzParticipant]

outside of the top 40 i did the ranking quite superficial so the 41-50 range could be a small mistake, with that said i think Carlos Boozer is still borderline allstar and even though he had mediocre playoff and being a little mentally weak as a player, for the 45-50 range he is worthy.
John Wall based on last season is not worth a top 50, maybe an honorable mention!

[kobyzParticipant]

everybody need to understand that LeBron does have some of the best qualities of all players in the game but he’s luck one very important thing when talking about the elite, that thing is special scoring talent and feel, that why in the toughest stages of the playoffs he would be stopped and guys like Kobe and Wade are not!

[draftmangtParticipant]

1 ) LeBron James

2) Dwyane Wade

3) Kevin Durant

4) Chris Paul

5) Dwight Howard

6) Derrick Rose

7) Kobe Bryant

8) Carmelo Anthtony

9) Deron Williams

10) Dirk  Nowitzki

11) Pau Gasol

12) Rajon Rondo

13) Amare Stoudemire

14) Blake Griffin

15) Russell Westbrook

16) LaMarcus Aldridge

17) Manu Ginobili

18) Joe Johnson

19) Paul Peirce

20) Zach Randolph

21) Andrew Bynum

22) Chris Bosh

23) Tim Duncan

24) Danny Granger

25) Al Horford

26) Ray Allen

27) Andre Igoudala

28) Andrew Bogut

29) Chauncey Billups

30) Josh Smith

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

You, are, delusional. Dwyane Wade and Kobe Bryant, while both incredible and fantastic players, both have gotten stopped in the play-offs as well. You are entitled to your opinion, but this whole thing about LeBron choking when things are on the line and playing poorly in two consecutive final series of the season, well, that has happened to others. Let’s see how LeBron stacks up against Kobe and Wade as far as their play-off career:

Kobe Bryant: 25.4 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.8 apg, 44.8% FG, 33.5% 3 pt, 81.5% FT

Kobe THIS YEAR: 22.8, 3.4, 3.3 (Including 17 points on 7-18 shooting in the pivotal Game 4 of the Dallas series)

I think Kobe Bryant was the best player in basketball for a long time, and I know he had his problems with his knees. He is still fantastic, but, let’s be real. He did not have a great play-offs. He has also played in the NBA for almost half of his life at age 33. While I still expect Kobe to be one of the better players in the league for the next couple of years, I think LeBron has definitely surpassed him as an all-around player.

Dwyane Wade: 25.9 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 5.6 apg, 48.3% FG, 32.7% 3 pt, 78.9% FT

Dwyane this year: 24.5 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 4.4 apg, 48.5% FG, 26.9% 3 pt, 77.7% FT

LeBron James: 28 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 7 apg, 46% FG, 32.3% 3 pt, 74.6% FT

LeBron this year: 23.7 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 5.9 apg, 46.6% FG, 32.3% 3 pt, 76.3% FT

The difference is incredibly neglible. Very little, with LeBron of course having more of an all-around impact. I truly feel he and Dwyane were both strong defensively, with LeBron usually putting in more work on that end. Now, LeBron did indeed have a pretty poor finals by his standards. He only averaged 21.4 ppg, plus was held to 8 in the game where Dirk Nowitzki’s heroic late game performance tied the series at 2-2. Nonetheless, he shot 48% from the field and clearly was deferring to Wade in most of the game deciding situations. Was that not what everyone was calling for him to do? Kind of a no win situation, unless you of course, win.

I am not saying that LeBron’s Finals performance was not subpar, it was. He never got to the line more than 4 times in a game, and he clearly should have taken more than 15 shots per game. His lack of production in the 4th quarter, or lack of even trying to initiate, was incredibly disappointing. Nonetheless, Dallas structured their entire defense to stopping LeBron. They were much more content with Dwyane Wade getting the better of them than they were LeBron James. It worked. Dwyane Wade scored 27.8 ppg in the Finals. He shot 18 times per game, a number that LeBron probably should have been closer to, without even necessarily taking shots away from Dwyane. He also shot a fantastic 54.5% from the field. Still, was Tyson Chandler always on his side of the court? Did they have help defense watching him like a hawk? Nope, they were content with Dwyane Wade trying to beat them rather than LeBron James. I think a large part of that is due to the fact that other teams had not been using that model.

Catch the Chicago series at all? Yes, I know, it is not the Finals, but they needed to win it to get there. Well, Dwyane Wade had a pretty poor last three games of that series. 

Dwyane vs. Chicago (series): 18.8 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 2.2 apg, 40.5% FG (His last 3 games averages were: 17.3 on 36.9% shooting. He had a decent Game 5 with 21 points, but 9 Turnovers!)

LeBron vs. Chicago: 25.8 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 6.6 apg, 44.6% FG (His last 3 Games: 28.3 ppg on only 43.1 shooting. Still, he got to the line 11 times per those last 3 games, going 31 of 33. He even had no turnovers in Game 3, Dwyane’s worst statistical game. He had 4 turnovers in the Final Game, but nonetheless went for 28 and 11)

I think they were both pretty equally awesome through the Boston series, though I think I recall LeBron actually usually doing more in the last few minutes of those games than Dwyane Wade. The bottom line is, Dwyane Wade has indeed won a championship, while LeBron has not. Dwyane Wade had a better NBA Finals this year than LeBron James. But, to write LeBron off as not being able to step up to the moment, at 26 years old, just seems pretty ridiculous.

You could say it is a feel or something he lacks, but he still, in my opinion, has time. Dirk Nowitzki  and Jason Kidd just won their first championship and they were 33 and 38. They used to get labels thrown around about them all of the time as well, after being called everything in the book. Dirk used to be labeled soft and someone who chokes in the clutch. Yeah, that guy who made every free throw he took in the play-offs this year (exaggeration, though not major) missed some huge FT’s. Miami 2006 ring a bell? What about Golden State that next year? Yikes. At least when LeBron won his MVP’s, he got out of the first round. Remember Ason Kidd? Cause he has no J? The guy who lost a bunch of Finals and looked like he was over the hill. The guy who was considered a major flop as Devin Harris flourished upon being traded to New Jersey initially? Well, he did pretty well.

I guess my point is, people can believe whatever they want about LeBron. They do, I cannot stop them. Until he wins a championship, more than likely even a Finals MVP, people will always have something to say about him being a choke artist or lacking a killer instinct. Nonetheless, I think every single NBA player has faltered on the big stage. Michael Jordan had to get through the Pistons. Kobe Bryant had a horrible Game 7 against the Suns in 2006 after leading his team to a 3-1 lead. Dwyane Wade had a poor 2007 play-offs. But, it seems that once a guy has that ONE ring, they are devoid of flaw in these situations. Much less Michael having 6 and Kobe having 5.

This world seems to be based on "what have you done for me lately". Still, I feel like saying LeBron has done quite a bit and his being rated behind any of those players, even his own teammate in Dwyane Wade, is debatable. The guy is a walking triple double and I think that he is indeed, going to remain or exceed his level of play for the next few years to come. I think the only player who you rate ahead of LeBron who might do that is Chris Paul, who while being an incredibly fantastic basketball player, is not 6’8 and 260 pounds of menacing strength and athleticism. LeBron does have to show and prove, but I think that people are more ranking him out of what a bunch of hype beasts are saying about him rather than straight up ability and actual facts. When you look at his play-off numbers, is he truly the choke artist every says he was? Or are you ranking him based on not living up to expectations of being at a LeBron James level? Personally, I think doing that and saying that other players are better due to kind being all that they can be, is not necessarily the best way to rank people. Especially seeing that this guy is still only 26 years old, not turning 27 until December. Michael Jordan won his first ring at that age. I am not saying that LeBron is Michael Jordan, I do not believe anyone is. But, if LeBron does anything less than completely dominate up to the expectations people have of him, it seems he gets ranked behind a person who had a worse series against Dallas than he did. I would love to see rankings be more about actual ability rather than emotion, but that rarely seems to be the case. I know I have my own biases as well, but I definitely try to back-up what I say with proof, and I truly do not think that was the case when you decided to rank LeBron 5th best player in the league.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

I really do not like the way they did it. I think that ranking 500 players from 1-10 leaves a major margin of error. Plus they gave no real basis for their votes. Is this based on last season, or what they would expect these players to look like by the end of this season. Everyone seems to have a different interpretation. Well, now that I know Andrew Bynum is #30 (sorry for getting to this so late), I will try to predict how THEY (the NBARank system) will rank the remaining players.

By the way, that was the point of why he made this post, I believe. To predict how the voters for this would rank these players, not so much how he would. So, to those who posted their rankings, many of which are just as questionable as NBArank, well, think you missed the point. Still appreciated, I am sure, but one should try to read an comprehend the posters motives before going crazy about what he has written.

NBARank Predictions:

1. LeBron James

2. Dwyane Wade

3. Dwight Howard (People on ESPN are obsessed with him)

4. Kobe Bryant

5. Dirk Nowitzki (He might be ranked higher due to the Finals and all, but I could see these 4 being ahead of him)

6. Kevin Durant

7. Chris Paul

8. Derrick Rose

9. Carmelo Anthony

10. Deron Williams

11. Pau Gasol (Yes, they will still rank him this high after his play-off performance)

12. Blake Griffin (Would not be surprised to see him lower, but he could be this high)

13. Steve Nash

14. Amare Stoudemire

15. Manu Ginobili

16. Rajon Rondo

17. Russell Westbrook

18. Zach Randolph

19. Kevin Love (This is a much higher ranking than he should have, but a lot more reasonable than 11. Either way, I think he will be ranked ahead of better players)

20. LaMarcus Aldridge

21. Paul Pierce

22. Tim Duncan (Yes, this is higher than better players at this point as well. He is a legend though, so, that is what happens)

23. Chris Bosh

24. Tony Parker

25. Marc Gasol (Yeah, I think he could go that high. Probably rank him ahead of Rudy Gay. Not me, remember, them)

26. Joakim Noah

27. Kevin Garnett (I find it hard to believe he ends up this low, but I would not be surprised if people harped on him more about being over the hill than Tim Duncan)

28. Al Horford

29. Rudy Gay (Gets the, "well, they did fine without him in the play-offs" rap)

30. Andrew Bynum (Though, if you saw him play against Tyson Chandler in the play-offs……) – Already ranked here

[MJBrownParticipant]

I’m not a huge Iggy fan, and I’m certainly not a Marc Gasol hater, but I would guess that most basketball knowledgable people would rate Igoudala’s game above Marc Gasol’s. I can’t believe that Marc Gasol is rated as one of the top 30 players in the league. I know the league is thin at the 5 spot, but still, I don’t see it.

[MJBrownParticipant]

Talk about ranking on potential. How many injury free season’s has he played?

[thparadoxParticipant]

 

Mike, terrific post about Lebron.

I will simply add this: Lebron had one of the greatest playoff performances of all time in 08-09. Lebron went 35, 9 and 7, on a .618 TS%. His PER was 37.

They lost to the Magic in the conference finals, but Lebron was 39, 8 and 8 in 6 games.

 

Also, I think you guys are underrating Duncan. He is clearly on the decline… but his post-game is as strong as ever, probably still the best in the league. He has lost a step on defense, and so he deserves a drop. No question. But for one season and playoffs? I might have to take Duncan over Gasol. It would at least be debatable.

[MJBrownParticipant]

1-James

2-Howard

3-Wade

4-Durant

5-Bryant

6-Rose

7-Nowitzki

8-Paul

9-Anthony

10-Williams

11-Griffin

12-Gasol

13-Stoudemire

14-Westbrook

15-Randolph

16-Aldridge

17-Rondo

18-Love

19-Pierce

20-Nash

21-Horford

22-Ginobilli

23-Parker

24-Bosh

25-Gay

26-Noah

27-Garnett

28-Duncan

29-Gasol

30-Bynum

[MJBrownParticipant]

Marc Gasol still on the board at 28?

[chevilicousParticipant]

Kobyz way to follow up your horrible list, with a horrible explanation, you truely make no sense.

1-Lebron James

2-Dwight Howard

3-Kevin Durant

4-Dwyane Wade

5- Kobe Bryant

6-Dirk Nowitzki

7-Chris Paul

8-Derrick Rose

9-Deron Williams

10- Carmello Anthony

11-Blake Griffin

12-Amare Stoudamire

13-Russell Westbrook

14-Pau Gasol

15- Kevin Love

16-Lamarcus Aldridge

17-Steve Nash

18-Rajon Rondo

19-Tim Duncan

20-Paul Pierce

21-Manu Ginobili

22-Kevin Garnett

23-Zach Randolph

24-Chris Bosh

25-Rudy Gay

26-Tony Parker

27-Al Horford

28-Marc Gasol

29-Joakim Noah

30-Andrew Bynum

[dmo21Participant]

There are definitely several things that I see in most peoples list that are injust.

First is the sudden urge to rank Dirk higher than he actually should be. Yes, he is a great player and I have been a big fan of him for years. But you ask this question last year and he would not be in the top 10 and he would not have been the first power forward on the board. It’s not like he just came out onto the scene last year, he has been doing this forever and winning one championship shouldn’t spark that much of a rise as he has been doing pretty much the same things he has always done, only the final outcome was different. There are two plausible outcomes, Dirk has been underated for years or people jumped on his bandwagon after last years title win. I would say it is both as people never really saw how good his game was and just how polished all his skills were and the title run made him more mainstream and now everyone thinks he is so amazing(like ranking him #2, come on son).

Another thing I noticed is how much Anthony has dropped off. He is still one of the most unguardable players in the league that has a huge array of offensive weapons. He can also rebound pretty good and not a bad passer. Defense isnt the best, but who plays defense anyways? He should easily be a lock in the top 10 as he has been playing very good for quite a while now while being the focus on his team.

This may get some flack but Bosh should definitely be higher on peoples lists. Before last year he could have been argued to be the best power forward in the game averaging a double double on a team without any weapons to key in on. I still think he made a horrible decision choosing to be a third option on the Heat while he could have been a first option on a playoff team and put up nice numbers. His mid-range spot up/off the dribble game is crazy for a guy his size and has the ability to get to the line every possession. Some of the guys ranked above him have never been a first option on their team or have only just become one. Bosh was a 20-10 guy for years while getting double teamed all the time. Yeah, we should show the Boshtrich some respect lol.

What y’all think about my thinkings?

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Tony Parker is one spot above Joakim Noah. I mean, really now. Ask France who was more valuable. I know, they are skilled at different things and play different positions. You cannot just switch them around and see who is more valuable than the other. But, Tony Parker, indeed, appears to be the more valuable and better of the two. I guess it is that Joakim gives a lot of effort and wears his heart on his sleeve, but to say he and Tony Parker are one spot apart, is laughable.

Joakim Noah played in 48 games last year during the regular season. The team went 36-12 with him in the line-up. They went 26-8 without him. They are not much better without him than they are with him (75% with him-76.4% without him), but the difference was not major. The fact is, while Noah is a good defender and rebounder, he has fairly neglible ability in creating any offense for himself. The guys post game is incredibly limited, and while he does not turn the ball over very often for a big man, and is a solid passer, he simply does not seem to be a person you can count on to score in large portions.

I realize that this does not necessarily mean he is a bad player, but to me it completely limits him, especially seeing that you can expect much more in the offensive department from Andrew Bynum, whom he is also inexplicably ranked before. By the way, Bynum, who is "always injured" played in more games than Joakim Noah this season. Just saying. Noah is a nice player, and obviously a favorite of many fans for the heart he displays. But, the guy being ranked above some of the players he is ranked in front of, is pretty ludicrous. For as badly as Boozer played in the play-offs (I thought he was more disappointing than Noah), why is no one on Joakim? The guy did not score in double digits once against Miami. He was usually guarding Chris Bosh, not Carlos Boozer. Bosh slayed him (thankfully, he will be ranked at least more accordingly). He averaged almost 10 boards per game (almost meaning less than), but he also averaged 6 points per game! He shot 31% from the field versus Miami as well, and 41% for the entire Play-offs.

Noah is young, and he should more than likely improve, but to have him ahead of seem of the people they do, I think including everyones favorite Bulls scape goat, Carlos Boozer, seems pretty ridiculous. You might want Noah on your team more than Boozer based on what they bring and what Boozer is being paid, but I believe Carlos is the more valuable player. I also, definitely, believe that the gap between Tony Parker and Joakim Noah, is huge. Tony Parker is a unique PG, he is not an exceptional long range shooter, he is not known for his lock down defense and his assists numbers do not stand out. Nonetheless, the guy seems to either win or compete with any single player he is matched up against at the position. He was not an All-Star due to being in a conference with a bunch of PG’s ranked ahead of him. Noah will contend for All-Star games because Centers outside of Dwight Howard are awful. I have nothing against Joakim, and I think he is a solid player and that he will more than likely improve as a player. Still, to have Tony Parker tied with Joakim Noah in score and ranked one spot ahead of him on this list, shows this list is ridiculously, obscenely flawed. It seems to be all in good fun rather than anything to serious, and it is a way to get page views and write stuff on twitter rather than actually talk anything about basketball players and where they should be ranked in general.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I agree with you about Chris Bosh, but a lot of his weaknesses were overlooked when he was the star in Toronto. They were exposed in Miami when he was counted on to do other things besides score.

I do think he’s a better player now in Miami, than he was in Toronto. He improved as a helpside/weakside defender and he became very reliable on rotations.

A lot of people are somewhat down on him now, but I like him more as a player now than I did when he was in Toronto.

 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

I pretty much agree with most of what you said dmo21. I personally think Melo is a top 10 player, and I would rank Bosh higher than most would, but than again, my rankings were just based on this "ESPN NBARank" nonsense. That was the point of this post, to try to predict where these players would be voted by that pretty awful system of evaluating 500 players.

I also agree with what Indiana said, and that he does indeed have a weakness as far as his ability to score in the low post. Simply put, that is not really his game for the most part. But, I believe he is much better than many people give him credit for, and while he may not be putting up the numbers of some of the other PF’s who are more of the focus of their teams offense, he is more than likely every bit as good if not better, than most of them. He had a great play-offs for the most part, the only guy who got the better of him was Dirk Nowitzki, who got the better of everyone he played.

Also, for as high as Pau Gasol is likely to be ranked, Chris Bosh played him to a tee both times the Heat and Lakers met. He held his own against Amare Stoudemire, and he played better than him in the match-up of the Heat-Knicks when they acquired Melo. I think that people liked to pick on him more for his decision to be a third banana, in a way they felt was taking the cowards way out, rather than him actually being a bad player. If circumstance is taken into account, than he may (key word) rank outside of the top 5 PF’s, but I honestly believe that he is close to or above just about any PF he were to match-up with in the league outside of Dirk Nowitzki. People will point to his statistics or some thing like that, they will bring up that he went 1-18 against Chicago, who knows. But, he killed Chicago in the play-offs and I think he is the best "Third Option" in the league by a WIDE margin. I know people say that he will hold the Heat back from being champions, but I think that he could very well be the key piece that wins them their first ring, and helps them compete for more beyond that.

[dmo21Participant]

It’s nice to know some people agree with me on Bosh, I have been a fan of him since he came into the league and started playing with my favorite team. He is kinda in the same situation Nowitzki and Gasol were in, in that he has never really played with a legit starting center that is big, plays defense, and rebounds. In Toronto he had Bargnani mostly and had an unhealthy Jermaine O’neal that didnt do much. In Miami he had/has Ilgauskas and Anthony. Those guy are not legit starting centers. Gasol and Dirk never had true centers beside them in their younger years, but now they have Bynum and Chandler respectively. Now that they have real centers beside them both Pau and Dirk are seen as better players and ranked higher.Griffin, Aldridge, and Randolph are all seen as better as Bosh, but they rarely play any minutes at center and have Jordan, Camby, and M.Gasol to do the dirty work for them. If Bosh had a real center beside him, I could see him being in atleast the top 15 in the NBA.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

"If Bosh had a real center beside him…"

Which is why I thought he should’ve joined Chicago. He and Noah would’ve complimented each other very well in my opinion. Very surprised Bosh didn’t join the Bulls. He had a chance to alternate between being the second or first option depending on the night, while also being on a great team. Instead, he chose to be the third wheel in Miami.

[chevilicousParticipant]

I really like your points dmo, I truely think melo is a top 10 talent as well, as i have him ranked 10th in mine, i just couldn’t come to ranking him above any of the other players 5-10 in Dirk, CP3, Dwill, and D-rose, all be it he is definately an offensive powerhouse, and one of the top 3 offensive weapons in the game. I find a hard time ranking him above those other 4 mentioned, as they all contribute on the other side of the ball more, and just have an overall bigger impact on the game for their respective teams in making their teamates better.

 

Also as far as your point with Dirk, I think some people are jumping on his band wagon being the MVP of a championship team. However his overall ranking be it in the top 10. You are probably correct about him being maybe top 15 2-3 yrs ago. But that is more due to the fact in my opinion that the 2 power forwards he has sat behind on this list, being Duncan and Garnett, their games have diminished quite a bit, in addition to Pau Gasol, whom I think allot of people probably had him rated higher than Dirk(myself not included) during his championship runs, he had a bad year last year as well. Factor that in also with the diminishing play of Nash, and there is a whole lot of room for movement there. I just think he is stuck in a situation where he is in the middle of up and coming stars, and hall of famers on the tail end of their careers. 

[kobyzParticipant]

@mikeyvthedon, i didn’t say anything about LeBron choking, i said he’s just not good enough right now and easier to stop than players like Kobe and Wade, it’s based on practical reason that his game lack the sensational scoring talent in every situation, cause his scoring rely on power, speed and athelicism and not on truley pure basketball skills, insticts and feel… there some stages like regular season that this disadvantage will not come to expression cause the defenses are not at their best and not the most preper, serious and commit.
please don’t come to me with numbers, i don’t put so much significance into it, often it don’t tall the all picture, it needed to see behind them, the way you make them and how it’s important also.

in the Bulls series Lebron was the better player between the two but in all others serieses of Miami Wade to me was clearly the man and the better player.

i also didn’t write LeBron off and didn’t say he can’t improve, to me even last season he made some improvment and maturing, and actually i think that he could take a very big step by refining and elaborate a post up game, with the player he is that the one thing he need to complete himself if want to be really the great one cause now there is somthing that hold him from being a winning player at the highest level.

[thparadoxParticipant]

 

"his scoring rely on power, speed and athelicism and not on truley pure basketball skills, insticts and feel.." 

Lebron is clearly the best player in the league. If you want to say that Lebron isn’t as skilled on offense as Kobe and Wade, that’s fine. It’s true. But there is really no other area of the game where Kobe is better than Lebron.

Lebron is a better passer than Kobe, he has better court vision, instincts, and decisionmaking.

Lebron is a better defender than Kobe. He can guard the best player on the perimeter, and also protect the rim as a help defender. Kobe is still a good perimeter defender, but Lebron is one of the tops in the league.

Lebron is clearly a better rebounder than Kobe.

I agree with anyone who thinks that Lebron should be a more skilled player by now (he should have more moves). As you alluded to, Lebron makes up for it in his athleticism, etc. In addition, I posit that Lebron is an excellent decisionmaker, realizing when he can take over games with his athleticism and power, versus when he’s better off deferring to Bosh/Wade when he’s getting double teamed (e.g. finals vs. dallas). You can argue that Lebron shows a lack of Kobe’s killer instinct, but I could counter that Kobe shows a lack of shot selection.

Also, Lebrons skills are improving. He is still very young. His jumpshot is much improved, especially his midrange game this season (they simply didn’t fall in the finals).

Stats can be quite useful in this case. Lebron’s TS% for past 3 years is about .600%. For Kobe it’s about .550%. That’s a big difference in efficiency.

[kobyzParticipant]

i agree that if you jude by looking at all aspects of the game LeBron has the most of all players, more than Kobe, Wade and maybe even Jordan, but it’s not work like this when coming to decide who the greatest player, cause there one somthing that you need to have to be the great one, cause that eventually bring championship, somthing that can’t find compensate for, cause all other aspects and areas that Lebron is greater, you can get filling with role players and as a team.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

ESPN ranked Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Lamarcus Aldridge above Chris Bosh. Agree or disagree?

This means that Blake Griffin will be listed in the top 20. I’m the biggest Blake Griffin fan, but top 20 already???

 

 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

With Bosh being ranked behind the players you mentioned. LaMarcus and Bosh are incredibly similar, but I still think Bosh is probably better. Paul Pierce is awesome and all, but I am really unsure he is still better than Bosh either. Also, Bosh and KG were neck and neck during the play-offs, and I found that Bosh for the most part was getting the better of him. KG had an awesome Game 3, but that was it really. I would definitely take the 27 year old Chris Bosh over the 35 year old KG.

Blake being in the top 20 is mostly projection, not to mention statistics. He had a huge statistical rookie year, and of course most will expect him to improve on his numbers. He more than likely will, but I am not sure he is better than some of these guys right now. Kevin Love being ranked ahead of Chris Bosh, KG and LA is a joke. All statistical, and I have a lot of respect for Kevin as a player. Well, this thing is kind of a joke anyway, but nonetheless interesting to see how it plays out. 

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