PG Rankings: Amazing Who is Below Average

This topic contains 53 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by Wetalkinboutpractice 9 years, 9 months ago.

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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 5:46am #64713

Andrew1984
Participant
I know there has been debate on this board as to the exact order at the top of this list, but my point isn’t to split hairs over the specific placement of players. But what I find astounding is the quality of players who come in below No. 15, making them below average at their position!
Also, I know Giannis and Simmons and some of those guys could be considered PGs, but for the sake of simplicity, I left them out:
1. Steph Curry
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Chris Paul
4. Kyrie Irving
5. Damian Lillard
6. John Wall
7. Kyle Lowry
8. Isaiah Thomas
9. Kemba Walker
10. Rajon Rondo
11. Mike Conley
12. Brandon Knight
13. Goran Dragic
14.Jeff Teague
15. Reggie Jackson
16. Jrue Holiday
17. D’Angelo Russell
18. Tony Parker
19. Emmanuel Mudiay
20. Deron Williams
21. Ricky Rubio
22. Jeremy Lin
23. Derrick Rose
24. Dennis Shroder
25. Elfrid Payton
26. Darren Collison
27. George Hill / Dante Exum
28. Patrick Beverley
29. Jerryd Bayless
30. Michael Carter-Williams / Delly
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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 5:57am #1084182

high floor
Participant
But I agree with your ranking of Elfrid Payton. I think he has a chance to move up the board this season if he throws up 3-4 triple doubles.. but a non-shooter who can’t convert at at least a 60% clip from the free-throw line is doomed for failure as a starting NBA point guard. You have to be able to get to the line & make your free throws if you are not a threat to hit from the outside.
The overall depth of the PG position (1-20 in particular) is as good as the league has ever seen.

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- Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 7:28am #1084206
  
  Danielcmccarty
  Participant
  I 100% agree with your assessment of Payton. Third year coming up for him. If he can improve on his free throw shooting and 3pt percentage then I feel he can keep a starting job after his third year. But he showed little improvement in those categories from his rookie to sophomore year. It’s a point guard league right now and if your starting point guard can’t shoot free throws at the end of the game and averages 10ppg and 6apg, then most GMs will be looking to upgrade that position.
  His list is probably pretty accurate across the board give or take a couple opinions here and there. But for the most part he got the top half of the point guards and the bottom half placed correctly. And the biggest thing to notice about the top half of the list and the bottom half of the list is that most players in the top half have their team in the playoffs and most on the bottom half aren’t in the playoffs. It’s hard right now to have a below average starting point guard by league standards and your team make the playoffs. The only way you can get away with it is by having a superstar wing player beside the lower end point guard like a James harden and Patrick Beverely. Dallas had Deron Williams whose aging and squeaked into the playoffs. Paul George had a George Hill. And those teams were an 8 seed, 6 seed and 7 seed in their conferences. Even the Spurs who won 67 games got bounced in the second round with an aging Tony Parker. So it’s safe to say that if you want to be a winning team that competes every year, the common denominator is having great point guards/scoring guards like Steph, Kyrie, Westbrook Lillard.
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- Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 7:28am #1084218
  
  Danielcmccarty
  Participant
  I 100% agree with your assessment of Payton. Third year coming up for him. If he can improve on his free throw shooting and 3pt percentage then I feel he can keep a starting job after his third year. But he showed little improvement in those categories from his rookie to sophomore year. It’s a point guard league right now and if your starting point guard can’t shoot free throws at the end of the game and averages 10ppg and 6apg, then most GMs will be looking to upgrade that position.
  His list is probably pretty accurate across the board give or take a couple opinions here and there. But for the most part he got the top half of the point guards and the bottom half placed correctly. And the biggest thing to notice about the top half of the list and the bottom half of the list is that most players in the top half have their team in the playoffs and most on the bottom half aren’t in the playoffs. It’s hard right now to have a below average starting point guard by league standards and your team make the playoffs. The only way you can get away with it is by having a superstar wing player beside the lower end point guard like a James harden and Patrick Beverely. Dallas had Deron Williams whose aging and squeaked into the playoffs. Paul George had a George Hill. And those teams were an 8 seed, 6 seed and 7 seed in their conferences. Even the Spurs who won 67 games got bounced in the second round with an aging Tony Parker. So it’s safe to say that if you want to be a winning team that competes every year, the common denominator is having great point guards/scoring guards like Steph, Kyrie, Westbrook Lillard.
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- Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 7:28am #1084381
  
  Danielcmccarty
  Participant
  I 100% agree with your assessment of Payton. Third year coming up for him. If he can improve on his free throw shooting and 3pt percentage then I feel he can keep a starting job after his third year. But he showed little improvement in those categories from his rookie to sophomore year. It’s a point guard league right now and if your starting point guard can’t shoot free throws at the end of the game and averages 10ppg and 6apg, then most GMs will be looking to upgrade that position.
  His list is probably pretty accurate across the board give or take a couple opinions here and there. But for the most part he got the top half of the point guards and the bottom half placed correctly. And the biggest thing to notice about the top half of the list and the bottom half of the list is that most players in the top half have their team in the playoffs and most on the bottom half aren’t in the playoffs. It’s hard right now to have a below average starting point guard by league standards and your team make the playoffs. The only way you can get away with it is by having a superstar wing player beside the lower end point guard like a James harden and Patrick Beverely. Dallas had Deron Williams whose aging and squeaked into the playoffs. Paul George had a George Hill. And those teams were an 8 seed, 6 seed and 7 seed in their conferences. Even the Spurs who won 67 games got bounced in the second round with an aging Tony Parker. So it’s safe to say that if you want to be a winning team that competes every year, the common denominator is having great point guards/scoring guards like Steph, Kyrie, Westbrook Lillard.
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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 5:57am #1084193

high floor
Participant
But I agree with your ranking of Elfrid Payton. I think he has a chance to move up the board this season if he throws up 3-4 triple doubles.. but a non-shooter who can’t convert at at least a 60% clip from the free-throw line is doomed for failure as a starting NBA point guard. You have to be able to get to the line & make your free throws if you are not a threat to hit from the outside.
The overall depth of the PG position (1-20 in particular) is as good as the league has ever seen.

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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 5:57am #1084357

high floor
Participant
But I agree with your ranking of Elfrid Payton. I think he has a chance to move up the board this season if he throws up 3-4 triple doubles.. but a non-shooter who can’t convert at at least a 60% clip from the free-throw line is doomed for failure as a starting NBA point guard. You have to be able to get to the line & make your free throws if you are not a threat to hit from the outside.
The overall depth of the PG position (1-20 in particular) is as good as the league has ever seen.

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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 8:50am #1084228

TRC1991
Participant
Good rankings. I usually don’t agree with rankings that show up here, but a huge +1 for putting Irving deservedly ahead of Lillard and Wall
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- Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 9:00am #1084234
  
  IndianaBasketball
  Participant
  The OP wrote the point of his thread wasn’t to go back and forth about the position of the players, but just curious… What makes Irving better than Lillard and Wall?
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  - Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 6:02pm #1084388
    
    SmooveKRYPT
    Participant
    He won a championship while neither of those guys have been past the second round. Wall & Lillard are my 2 favorite point guards by a wide margin, and even I wouldn’t put either guy ahead of Kyrie on a rankings list.
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    - Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 7:29pm #1084416
      
      IndianaBasketball
      Participant
      Stop it… You’re too knowledgable for that type of reasoning lol. This isn’t a knock against Irving (he played great in the Finals) but it’s a fact he doesn’t carry the same load as Lillard or Wall. Irving had zero playoff appearances before LeBron returned. POR lost 4 starters and Lillard still led that team to the 5th seed. Wall has led his team to the second round of the playoffs twice as the guy.
      The championship reasoning isn’t enough. What makes Irving a better basketball player than Lillard and Wall?
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    - Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 7:29pm #1084405
      
      IndianaBasketball
      Participant
      Stop it… You’re too knowledgable for that type of reasoning lol. This isn’t a knock against Irving (he played great in the Finals) but it’s a fact he doesn’t carry the same load as Lillard or Wall. Irving had zero playoff appearances before LeBron returned. POR lost 4 starters and Lillard still led that team to the 5th seed. Wall has led his team to the second round of the playoffs twice as the guy.
      The championship reasoning isn’t enough. What makes Irving a better basketball player than Lillard and Wall?
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      - Posted on: Wed, 07/20/2016 - 9:44am #1084493
        
        NJHooper95
        Participant
        I agree with you about the load that wall and Lillard carried and I will give Lillard much more credit than wall considering his cast and being in the West. Yeah Irving didn’t make the playoff without Lebron, but you have to considered who he played with versus Wall who had a Beal, Gortat, Nene and they are better than any player Irving ever played with Pre-Lebron. Yet what Lillard did was amazing, but player for player I definitely got Irving over Wall and slightly over Lillard.
        Why, because Irving is such a dynamic offense force that he negates his weakness on defense and assisting. If you replace Wall with Irving in that finals the Cavs may win one game, however I do think if you replaced him with Lillard the Cavs still would have a good chance to win. Irving is one of the best offensive weapons at his position, arguably ever. Elite finisher, elite midrange, elite long range, elite ball handler, and elite clutch player.
        
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        Posted on: Wed, 07/20/2016 - 3:26pm #1084513
        
        IndianaBasketball
        Participant
        I can respect that reasoning.
        It’s extremely close. John Wall is a better overall/two way player than both, but not the shooter/scorer.
        It really depends on what pieces are around them. If I needed a scoring point, I’d go with Lillard or Irving. If I already had scorers, I’d go with Wall.
        If I had to rank the three, I’d go:
        1. Lillard – Developing leader and every bit the scorer Irving is. I love that he can play with and without the ball. Leading POR to the 5th seed in the West really helps his case for me. That team lost LaMarcus Aldridge and 3 other very good starters. Biggest knock is his defense.
        2. Wall – He’s not the scorer Lillard or Irving is, but he’s a good leader and makes his teammates better. What I really love is he really gets after it defensively. Wish he could shoot better, but I love his impact at both ends. He has elite size, length, speed and athleticism.
        3. Irving – Elite ball handler. Elite finisher. Elite scorer. Great shooter. Better defender than people give him credit for. However, can play selfish/tunnel vision and over dribble. Doesn’t really make anyone better.
        
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        Posted on: Wed, 07/20/2016 - 7:58pm #1084534
        
        NJHooper95
        Participant
        you are on the money With that analysis.
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  - Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 6:02pm #1084398
    
    SmooveKRYPT
    Participant
    He won a championship while neither of those guys have been past the second round. Wall & Lillard are my 2 favorite point guards by a wide margin, and even I wouldn’t put either guy ahead of Kyrie on a rankings list.
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- Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 9:00am #1084246
  
  IndianaBasketball
  Participant
  The OP wrote the point of his thread wasn’t to go back and forth about the position of the players, but just curious… What makes Irving better than Lillard and Wall?
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- Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 9:00am #1084412
  
  IndianaBasketball
  Participant
  The OP wrote the point of his thread wasn’t to go back and forth about the position of the players, but just curious… What makes Irving better than Lillard and Wall?
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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 8:50am #1084242

TRC1991
Participant
Good rankings. I usually don’t agree with rankings that show up here, but a huge +1 for putting Irving deservedly ahead of Lillard and Wall
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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 8:50am #1084406

TRC1991
Participant
Good rankings. I usually don’t agree with rankings that show up here, but a huge +1 for putting Irving deservedly ahead of Lillard and Wall
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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 9:38am #1084429

giddyup123
Participant
is Rondo doing at number 10? Sure, 5 years ago when he was with the Celtics and the Big 3.. but now, I don’t even know if I would put him top 15. I like Conley at 10, Reggie Jackson at 11, and throw Rondo down to 15 (and even that might be a stretch…)
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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 9:38am #1084255

giddyup123
Participant
is Rondo doing at number 10? Sure, 5 years ago when he was with the Celtics and the Big 3.. but now, I don’t even know if I would put him top 15. I like Conley at 10, Reggie Jackson at 11, and throw Rondo down to 15 (and even that might be a stretch…)
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- Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 9:55am #1084433
  
  Andrew1984
  Participant
  He led the league in assists last year, with 1.3 per game more than the next closest player.
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- Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 9:55am #1084258
  
  Andrew1984
  Participant
  He led the league in assists last year, with 1.3 per game more than the next closest player.
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  - Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 10:08am #1084436
    
    Choppy
    Participant
    Still can’t shoot though…
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  - Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 10:08am #1084261
    
    Choppy
    Participant
    Still can’t shoot though…
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  - Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 10:08am #1084272
    
    Choppy
    Participant
    Still can’t shoot though…
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- Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 9:55am #1084269
  
  Andrew1984
  Participant
  He led the league in assists last year, with 1.3 per game more than the next closest player.
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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 9:38am #1084266

giddyup123
Participant
is Rondo doing at number 10? Sure, 5 years ago when he was with the Celtics and the Big 3.. but now, I don’t even know if I would put him top 15. I like Conley at 10, Reggie Jackson at 11, and throw Rondo down to 15 (and even that might be a stretch…)
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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 10:58am #1084457

Endlessknight
Participant
So basically Sam Henkie got a probable lottery pick for the 30th ranked point guard? I remember getting so much crap for defending that trade.
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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 10:58am #1084282

Endlessknight
Participant
So basically Sam Henkie got a probable lottery pick for the 30th ranked point guard? I remember getting so much crap for defending that trade.
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- Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 12:31pm #1084313
  
  220
  Participant
  People were lying to themselves. They got caught up with MCW winning rookie of the year, but the simple truth was MCW had big numbers on a bad team. He still shot a poor percentage and turned the ball over a ton. MCW is a solid defender and he rebounds well for a guard. Going into his fourth season MCW hasn’t shown much improvement either. I’d say the 76ers made a good deal. There is no way any lottery team would give a top 3 protected pick for MCW now.
  
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- Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 12:31pm #1084323
  
  220
  Participant
  People were lying to themselves. They got caught up with MCW winning rookie of the year, but the simple truth was MCW had big numbers on a bad team. He still shot a poor percentage and turned the ball over a ton. MCW is a solid defender and he rebounds well for a guard. Going into his fourth season MCW hasn’t shown much improvement either. I’d say the 76ers made a good deal. There is no way any lottery team would give a top 3 protected pick for MCW now.
  
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- Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 8:11pm #1084420
  
  circumlocution75
  Participant
  I can’t go imto All the Details — But Hinkie turned 3 of those guards on the 2nd half of that List into a Treasure Haul for Philly
  So to Sum it up — for MCW, Elfrid Payton & Jru Holiday – the 76ers received Nerlens Noel, Dario Saric & 2 – top 10 – 2017 lottery picks & the Kings 2019 Unprotected 1st round pick – That’s Insane –
  Media memebers became So Obsessed w/ trying to turn Fans against Hinkie in the hopes of getting him Fired that they Lost ALL perspective & Powers of Reason
  
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  - Posted on: Wed, 07/20/2016 - 3:23pm #1084512
    
    Endlessknight
    Participant
    Actually Payton came from the Holiday trade so it’s just Jrue and MCW for all that.
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- Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 8:11pm #1084431
  
  circumlocution75
  Participant
  I can’t go imto All the Details — But Hinkie turned 3 of those guards on the 2nd half of that List into a Treasure Haul for Philly
  So to Sum it up — for MCW, Elfrid Payton & Jru Holiday – the 76ers received Nerlens Noel, Dario Saric & 2 – top 10 – 2017 lottery picks & the Kings 2019 Unprotected 1st round pick – That’s Insane –
  Media memebers became So Obsessed w/ trying to turn Fans against Hinkie in the hopes of getting him Fired that they Lost ALL perspective & Powers of Reason
  
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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 10:58am #1084293

Endlessknight
Participant
So basically Sam Henkie got a probable lottery pick for the 30th ranked point guard? I remember getting so much crap for defending that trade.
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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 12:24pm #1084307

Captain L
Participant
What is the criteria you used to rank these guys? Popular opinion , personal opinion ? Or do you have statistics like shooting percentage, ( multiple areas), assists, assists to turnover ratio etc etc.
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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 12:24pm #1084317

Captain L
Participant
What is the criteria you used to rank these guys? Popular opinion , personal opinion ? Or do you have statistics like shooting percentage, ( multiple areas), assists, assists to turnover ratio etc etc.
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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 2:42pm #1084343

Meditated States
Participant
Top of the L in steals and 3rd in triple doubles gets him easily top 10.
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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 2:42pm #1084353

Meditated States
Participant
Top of the L in steals and 3rd in triple doubles gets him easily top 10.
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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 3:18pm #1084355

JordanC20
Participant
Mike Conley highest paid player in the league yet the 11th best PG I won’t argue with that though because you ranked him about right.
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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 3:18pm #1084365

JordanC20
Participant
Mike Conley highest paid player in the league yet the 11th best PG I won’t argue with that though because you ranked him about right.
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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 3:29pm #1084361

IndianaBasketball
Participant
I’d rather have Conley over Rondo, Walker and Thomas.
Memphis’ offense is built to inflate his numbers.
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- Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 3:36pm #1084367
  
  IndianaBasketball
  Participant
  Memphis’ offense isn’t* built to inflate his numbers I meant
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- Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 3:36pm #1084377
  
  IndianaBasketball
  Participant
  Memphis’ offense isn’t* built to inflate his numbers I meant
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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 3:29pm #1084371

IndianaBasketball
Participant
I’d rather have Conley over Rondo, Walker and Thomas.
Memphis’ offense is built to inflate his numbers.
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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 6:22pm #1084391

Hype Machine
Please. Delly in last place.

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- Posted on: Wed, 07/20/2016 - 8:18am #1084489
  
  ZachAttack
  Participant
  Who is he better than?
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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 6:22pm #1084401

Hype Machine
Please. Delly in last place.

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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 7:29pm #1084419

NJHooper95
Participant
The list is a really good list but i don’t think Rondo is a top tier of anymore, and yeah he gets assists, but he also hunts for assists. I think Rose is still an elite talent, and though he has been injured and inconsistent, I would still take him over some of the guards ahead of him because he is still capable of having dominant nights
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Posted on: Tue, 07/19/2016 - 7:29pm #1084408

NJHooper95
Participant
The list is a really good list but i don’t think Rondo is a top tier of anymore, and yeah he gets assists, but he also hunts for assists. I think Rose is still an elite talent, and though he has been injured and inconsistent, I would still take him over some of the guards ahead of him because he is still capable of having dominant nights
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Posted on: Wed, 07/20/2016 - 4:07pm #1084522

Uncledrew
Participant
I don’t know when D’angelo Russell became better than Tony Parker or Derrick rose. And sure rose may not be 2011 mvp caliber player today, but he did average 16 ppg in 66 games last year and still much better than a few ahead of him on that list like Rondo, Dragic, Knight and Teague.
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Posted on: Sat, 09/10/2016 - 8:31am #1086376

Wetalkinboutpractice
Participant
Not even a mention of the other PG in Phoenix, where does Eric Bledsoe fit into all of this?
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