[saladdaysParticipant]

Player overviews only go back to the 2006 draft on this site. I was just curious as to what scouts were saying about future superstars from before then, such as Kobe, Duncan, Garnett, etc. Nowadays, there seems to be a greater emphasis on raw, athletic prospects who’re drafted based on potential. Were there any such prospects from before who eventually polished their skills and panned out as good players?

 

 Also, how do you guys think prospect evalutions have changed over time? Are there lottery picks from older drafts who would’ve been overlooked now, or vice versa, due to changing standards?

[r377Participant]

I remember Duncan was well hyped early on. His first season stats were not great, but I remember reading articles and opinions saying he could very well go no1 overall in his second season. He stayed all four years and was easily regarded as “can’t miss” by virtually everyone.

Garnett and Kobe both came out of HS so there is always some level of doubt as to just how good each one would be. From memory Garnett was more hyped than Kobe. Speaking of coming out of HS, Lebron was well hyped more than these two – the next Jordan, elite or franchise player comments. He was suppose to be the next greatest player since Jordan – I guess this was true…..

[saladdaysParticipant]

did scouts have concerns over any holes in their games or physical disadvantages? i know lebron was known for his passing. do you remember what about these other players impressed people so much?

[saladdaysParticipant]

did scouts have concerns over any holes in their games or physical disadvantages? i know lebron was known for his passing. do you remember what about these other players impressed people so much?

[wonzi_bellsParticipant]

 Are you talking about his first season as in his freshman year at Wake Forest because in his first season in San Antonio, he was already regarded as a top 10 player in the league by the end of his rookie season. He finished 5th in MVP Voting in his first year and probably the last time as rookie from the get-go could automatically put you in championship contention. 

[wonzi_bellsParticipant]

 Are you talking about his first season as in his freshman year at Wake Forest because in his first season in San Antonio, he was already regarded as a top 10 player in the league by the end of his rookie season. He finished 5th in MVP Voting in his first year and probably the last time as rookie from the get-go could automatically put you in championship contention. 

[wonzi_bellsParticipant]

 Are you talking about his first season as in his freshman year at Wake Forest because in his first season in San Antonio, he was already regarded as a top 10 player in the league by the end of his rookie season. He finished 5th in MVP Voting in his first year and probably the last time as rookie from the get-go could automatically put you in championship contention. 

[wonzi_bellsParticipant]

 Are you talking about his first season as in his freshman year at Wake Forest because in his first season in San Antonio, he was already regarded as a top 10 player in the league by the end of his rookie season. He finished 5th in MVP Voting in his first year and probably the last time as rookie from the get-go could automatically put you in championship contention. 

[r377Participant]

I remember Duncan was well hyped early on. His first season stats were not great, but I remember reading articles and opinions saying he could very well go no1 overall in his second season. He stayed all four years and was easily regarded as “can’t miss” by virtually everyone.

Garnett and Kobe both came out of HS so there is always some level of doubt as to just how good each one would be. From memory Garnett was more hyped than Kobe. Speaking of coming out of HS, Lebron was well hyped more than these two – the next Jordan, elite or franchise player comments. He was suppose to be the next greatest player since Jordan – I guess this was true…..

[wonzi_bellsParticipant]

 Tim Duncan was regarded as one of the greatest college players of all-time. Would have been drafted maybe in the lottery after his freshman in 1994. Would’ve probably been the top pick in 1995 over Joe Smith, Antonio McDyess and Rashad Wallace. Would’ve hands down been the number one pick in 1996 over anyone. ESPN had him ranked 21 of the 25 Greatest CBB Players of All-Time. Tim Duncan grew into his offense though but was dominant defender from the start and won three DPOY at the college level. 

As for Kevin Garnett and Kobe Bryant, they’re two of what I consider to be the three best high school basketball prospects of the 90s, along with Chris Webber in some order.

 Kevin Garnett was considered to be the best passing big man since Bill Walton and anomaly as a hyper-athletic seven-footer with guard skills that probably Ralph Sampson and the late Ben Wilson only had. His main flaw were just post-up skills and strength but number one guy in his high school class in 1995, which is probably one of the top five greatest HS classes of all-time with Paul Pierce, Vince Carter, Antawn Jamison, Stephon Marbury and others.

 Kobe Bryant was the number one player in the 1996 HS class, very athletic swingman who played every position for his high school team and was very mature and confident. The same old story of him mimicking his game after Michael Jordan. The prototype of his game is the same today and the same with Jordan, everything is built off their cat quick first step and their ability to have body control in the air with hangtime in that 6’6 body with long wingspan. Everything else is built off that and we know his work ethic, some that’s how the ball-handling, passing ability, tough-shot making. The reason why he wasn’t pick high in the top five like Garnett is because he sort of forced his way to be drafted lower so he’d end up with the Lakers but I sort of think that story has been played up and the real reason is because size rises for guy like Garnett and at this period, drafting HS players was like the wild, wild, west, so it would be weird drafting a skinny 6’6 guard as opposed to a seven-footer like Garnett. 

I don’t really think much has changed except guys aren’t staying four years like they did in the early-to-mid 90s and with them being one-and-done players, we have to say "potential" all the time since we’ve only seen them for one year. If you look at most guys who were superstars in the NBA, they were top 10 guys in their HS classes and that hasn’t changed with teams drafting blue chip prospects.

[wonzi_bellsParticipant]

 Tim Duncan was regarded as one of the greatest college players of all-time. Would have been drafted maybe in the lottery after his freshman in 1994. Would’ve probably been the top pick in 1995 over Joe Smith, Antonio McDyess and Rashad Wallace. Would’ve hands down been the number one pick in 1996 over anyone. ESPN had him ranked 21 of the 25 Greatest CBB Players of All-Time. Tim Duncan grew into his offense though but was dominant defender from the start and won three DPOY at the college level. 

As for Kevin Garnett and Kobe Bryant, they’re two of what I consider to be the three best high school basketball prospects of the 90s, along with Chris Webber in some order.

 Kevin Garnett was considered to be the best passing big man since Bill Walton and anomaly as a hyper-athletic seven-footer with guard skills that probably Ralph Sampson and the late Ben Wilson only had. His main flaw were just post-up skills and strength but number one guy in his high school class in 1995, which is probably one of the top five greatest HS classes of all-time with Paul Pierce, Vince Carter, Antawn Jamison, Stephon Marbury and others.

 Kobe Bryant was the number one player in the 1996 HS class, very athletic swingman who played every position for his high school team and was very mature and confident. The same old story of him mimicking his game after Michael Jordan. The prototype of his game is the same today and the same with Jordan, everything is built off their cat quick first step and their ability to have body control in the air with hangtime in that 6’6 body with long wingspan. Everything else is built off that and we know his work ethic, some that’s how the ball-handling, passing ability, tough-shot making. The reason why he wasn’t pick high in the top five like Garnett is because he sort of forced his way to be drafted lower so he’d end up with the Lakers but I sort of think that story has been played up and the real reason is because size rises for guy like Garnett and at this period, drafting HS players was like the wild, wild, west, so it would be weird drafting a skinny 6’6 guard as opposed to a seven-footer like Garnett. 

I don’t really think much has changed except guys aren’t staying four years like they did in the early-to-mid 90s and with them being one-and-done players, we have to say "potential" all the time since we’ve only seen them for one year. If you look at most guys who were superstars in the NBA, they were top 10 guys in their HS classes and that hasn’t changed with teams drafting blue chip prospects.

[OhCanada-Participant]

T-Mac was pretty raw in the beginning of his career. He was uses primarily as a defensive ace and was not given much opportunity to grow as an offensive player. Part of it was also opportunity yet he really developed his game fast to become an elite player.

[OhCanada-Participant]

T-Mac was pretty raw in the beginning of his career. He was uses primarily as a defensive ace and was not given much opportunity to grow as an offensive player. Part of it was also opportunity yet he really developed his game fast to become an elite player.

[Rip255]

Sounds like Dante Exum’s rookie year….defensive ace, not much opportunity offensively. 

[Rip255]

Sounds like Dante Exum’s rookie year….defensive ace, not much opportunity offensively. 

[ThenilonatorParticipant]

 I recall after Kobe and KG were drafted there was a heap of guys taken straight from high school a lot higher than they probably should have been due to these guys succes. Names like Bender, Miles (although I was a fan!),  Brown and Curry come to mind.

[ThenilonatorParticipant]

 I recall after Kobe and KG were drafted there was a heap of guys taken straight from high school a lot higher than they probably should have been due to these guys succes. Names like Bender, Miles (although I was a fan!),  Brown and Curry come to mind.

[The QParticipant]

 Bender and Miles both had career ending knee issues. 

Both appeared to be really turning the corner T-Mac style when they initially started having issues. 

 

[The QParticipant]

 Bender and Miles both had career ending knee issues. 

Both appeared to be really turning the corner T-Mac style when they initially started having issues. 

 

[RioRepParticipant]

pretty much summed it up. Nice.

[RioRepParticipant]

pretty much summed it up. Nice.

[Snatalini247Participant]

 Theres a fair amount of players you can find information on here before 2006. Not all of the links work but if you simply type in the name of the player with a dash in between like so http://www.nbadraft.net/players/kenyon-martin you can get to their page. However, none of them date back before the 2000 draft so no Kobe, Duncan, or Garnett.

[Snatalini247Participant]

 Theres a fair amount of players you can find information on here before 2006. Not all of the links work but if you simply type in the name of the player with a dash in between like so http://www.nbadraft.net/players/kenyon-martin you can get to their page. However, none of them date back before the 2000 draft so no Kobe, Duncan, or Garnett.

[saladdaysParticipant]

thanks a lot! yeah wow..it’s crazy how highly touted kwame was by scouts

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/kwame-brown

this is what i mean though, do you think guys like tyson chandler, shane battier, kwame brown would have been this hyped up if they’d entered this year’s draft? these guys were rated even higher than recent rookies like wiggins, parker, towns, etc. but never really achieved the stardom their scouting reports suggested

[saladdaysParticipant]

thanks a lot! yeah wow..it’s crazy how highly touted kwame was by scouts

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/kwame-brown

this is what i mean though, do you think guys like tyson chandler, shane battier, kwame brown would have been this hyped up if they’d entered this year’s draft? these guys were rated even higher than recent rookies like wiggins, parker, towns, etc. but never really achieved the stardom their scouting reports suggested

[wonzi_bellsParticipant]

 Not really. Scouts nowadays have more opportunities to see players since there are more camps and easier ways to get all the top tier talents all in one room. Thats the reason why AAU summer circuit leagues were created like the Nike EYBL, Adidas Uprising/Gaulet or Under Armour UAA. Plus, its so much easier to watch players on the internet and videos nowadays, as oppose to the grainy small file videos that basically didn’t show much.

Plus, I know that this site compared Kwame Brown to Kevin Garnett and Tyson Chandler to Rasheed Wallace but this site didn’t really know what it was doing back then. There’s this Grantland piece that came out last year called The Fever Dream of Early NBA Draft Blogs, that goes into how the early NBA Draft websites that first popped up in the early 2000s had no idea what they were doing and were hyping up guys willy nilly.

That’s what I loved about following the NBA draft in the early 2000s. That’s what kept me up at night. It was the Wild West of the NBA Internet age, when technology had opened up borders and given us access to more information than we’d ever imagined, but before it brought us tools like YouTube and Synergy Sports that would allow us to make sense of all that raw info. NBADraft.net and DraftExpress could give us a picture and a rough description of a highly touted Euro prospect, and the rest was often up to our imaginations. It was a time of 7-5 Russian giants, 6-7 Czech point guards, and Polish 7-footers with “excellent mobility.” So what if two out of those three were Pavel Podkolzin and Jiri Welsch, and the other was Marcin Gortat? One out of three ain’t terrible, and damn, those days were fun.

 Aran Smith, who founded NBADraft.net in 2000, tells a similar story about running a website in the early to mid-2000s: “I wasn’t talking to NBA scouts or GMs the way that I am now. There weren’t the Synergies; you weren’t getting 30 games for Duke or all the big teams on TV every day. You’d have to go off a lot less footage and stats and so forth. It was more of a crapshoot.”

That line right there is literally the manifestation of this site or DraftExpress back in the days. So basically everything you read about guys up until the end of the Eurocraze era and the last year of the prep-to-pro era, which ended around 2005-2006, should be taken with a grain of salt.

But I wrote this in another post the other day but Kwame Brown wasn’t even the number one guy in his HS class. He was ranked 6th behind Eddy Curry, Dajuan Wagner, Kelvin Torbert, Tyson Chandler and Ousmane Cisse. On top of that 2001 wasn’t even a good high school class, as well as the 2001 NBA Draft not being all that good of a draft class because the 1998, 1999 and 2000 high school class were devoid of top talent, so the best collegiate player was Shane Battier. 

Then what ends up happening in poor draft classes is the upside picks tend to rise more. Like what was said about guys like Garnett and Bryant were, they are this or they are that. With Kwame Brown is was, he could be this or he could be that. If they came around today, they’d be viewed with more realistic viewpoints. Like Tyson Chandler would still be a top five pick but he’d viewed as a more skilled version of Nerlens Noel, which is pretty much what he ended up being. Or Kwame Brown would’ve been still probably viewed as a top ten guy but we would’ve attatched the word project to him much more than they did in 2001 and we probably would have seen more red flags like his hand size, his background or the level of competition he played against in high school but he would have still been a top ten pick on the basis that he’s 6’11 and athletic but probably not the number one or two pick, at least not in a good draft.

The whole thought-process on how to determine who’d be successful was turned on it’s ear when the prep-to-pro era began and people got fool because the first four players drafted prep-to-pro (Garnett – 1995, Bryant and O’Neal – 1996 and McGrady – 1997) skewed everybody’s perception into thinking anyone who drafted prep-to-pro will turn out great if you give them two to four years to develop and that wasn’t the case but it’s stabilized now. We needed that period of the prep-to-pro era and the Eurocraze era because it helped get the right perception on everything with scouting players.

[wonzi_bellsParticipant]

 Not really. Scouts nowadays have more opportunities to see players since there are more camps and easier ways to get all the top tier talents all in one room. Thats the reason why AAU summer circuit leagues were created like the Nike EYBL, Adidas Uprising/Gaulet or Under Armour UAA. Plus, its so much easier to watch players on the internet and videos nowadays, as oppose to the grainy small file videos that basically didn’t show much.

Plus, I know that this site compared Kwame Brown to Kevin Garnett and Tyson Chandler to Rasheed Wallace but this site didn’t really know what it was doing back then. There’s this Grantland piece that came out last year called The Fever Dream of Early NBA Draft Blogs, that goes into how the early NBA Draft websites that first popped up in the early 2000s had no idea what they were doing and were hyping up guys willy nilly.

That’s what I loved about following the NBA draft in the early 2000s. That’s what kept me up at night. It was the Wild West of the NBA Internet age, when technology had opened up borders and given us access to more information than we’d ever imagined, but before it brought us tools like YouTube and Synergy Sports that would allow us to make sense of all that raw info. NBADraft.net and DraftExpress could give us a picture and a rough description of a highly touted Euro prospect, and the rest was often up to our imaginations. It was a time of 7-5 Russian giants, 6-7 Czech point guards, and Polish 7-footers with “excellent mobility.” So what if two out of those three were Pavel Podkolzin and Jiri Welsch, and the other was Marcin Gortat? One out of three ain’t terrible, and damn, those days were fun.

 Aran Smith, who founded NBADraft.net in 2000, tells a similar story about running a website in the early to mid-2000s: “I wasn’t talking to NBA scouts or GMs the way that I am now. There weren’t the Synergies; you weren’t getting 30 games for Duke or all the big teams on TV every day. You’d have to go off a lot less footage and stats and so forth. It was more of a crapshoot.”

That line right there is literally the manifestation of this site or DraftExpress back in the days. So basically everything you read about guys up until the end of the Eurocraze era and the last year of the prep-to-pro era, which ended around 2005-2006, should be taken with a grain of salt.

But I wrote this in another post the other day but Kwame Brown wasn’t even the number one guy in his HS class. He was ranked 6th behind Eddy Curry, Dajuan Wagner, Kelvin Torbert, Tyson Chandler and Ousmane Cisse. On top of that 2001 wasn’t even a good high school class, as well as the 2001 NBA Draft not being all that good of a draft class because the 1998, 1999 and 2000 high school class were devoid of top talent, so the best collegiate player was Shane Battier. 

Then what ends up happening in poor draft classes is the upside picks tend to rise more. Like what was said about guys like Garnett and Bryant were, they are this or they are that. With Kwame Brown is was, he could be this or he could be that. If they came around today, they’d be viewed with more realistic viewpoints. Like Tyson Chandler would still be a top five pick but he’d viewed as a more skilled version of Nerlens Noel, which is pretty much what he ended up being. Or Kwame Brown would’ve been still probably viewed as a top ten guy but we would’ve attatched the word project to him much more than they did in 2001 and we probably would have seen more red flags like his hand size, his background or the level of competition he played against in high school but he would have still been a top ten pick on the basis that he’s 6’11 and athletic but probably not the number one or two pick, at least not in a good draft.

The whole thought-process on how to determine who’d be successful was turned on it’s ear when the prep-to-pro era began and people got fool because the first four players drafted prep-to-pro (Garnett – 1995, Bryant and O’Neal – 1996 and McGrady – 1997) skewed everybody’s perception into thinking anyone who drafted prep-to-pro will turn out great if you give them two to four years to develop and that wasn’t the case but it’s stabilized now. We needed that period of the prep-to-pro era and the Eurocraze era because it helped get the right perception on everything with scouting players.

[strobox88Participant]

Here are some I’ve been able to find that predate this site.

Kobe Byrant

Tim Duncan

Kevin Garnett

Tracy McGrady

Paul Pierce

Ray Allen

Vince Carter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[strobox88Participant]

Here are some I’ve been able to find that predate this site.

Kobe Byrant

Tim Duncan

Kevin Garnett

Tracy McGrady

Paul Pierce

Ray Allen

Vince Carter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KerouacJackParticipant]

 Thanks for these. Very fun and interesting reading them.

The best part is in the Vince carter article where they spelled athlete "athelete"…. must have been where Benchwarmers stole that joke from.

[KerouacJackParticipant]

 Thanks for these. Very fun and interesting reading them.

The best part is in the Vince carter article where they spelled athlete "athelete"…. must have been where Benchwarmers stole that joke from.

[Meditated StatesParticipant]

 I go Time Duncan. Dude has 4 finals L’s. He is a great player though. Watched MJ his whole career and watched Lebron his whole career, and him compaired to Jordan is laughable to me.

[Meditated StatesParticipant]

 I go Time Duncan. Dude has 4 finals L’s. He is a great player though. Watched MJ his whole career and watched Lebron his whole career, and him compaired to Jordan is laughable to me.

[RioRepParticipant]

Very good post Mahad! Very cleverful and on spot. Totally agree. 

[RioRepParticipant]

Very good post Mahad! Very cleverful and on spot. Totally agree. 

[theballerwayParticipant]

the trend of potential over performance started to show itself. During the HS to Pro years. On the list with TMac are so many ther guys that were high teens and 20 point scorers in college but flamed out in the NBA for varying  reasons. On that same TMac report the only other player on there that had any real NBA success was Stephen Jackson who also declared as a HS  player.

 

Still think  Victor Paige should have been drafted that year though ( somewhere)

[theballerwayParticipant]

the trend of potential over performance started to show itself. During the HS to Pro years. On the list with TMac are so many ther guys that were high teens and 20 point scorers in college but flamed out in the NBA for varying  reasons. On that same TMac report the only other player on there that had any real NBA success was Stephen Jackson who also declared as a HS  player.

 

Still think  Victor Paige should have been drafted that year though ( somewhere)

[McDunkin]

Do you remember when DeShawn Stevenson was compared to Michael Jordan? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/deshawn-stevenson

[McDunkin]

Do you remember when DeShawn Stevenson was compared to Michael Jordan? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/deshawn-stevenson

[Author]

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