[HaleParticipant]

1. Feelings on the Heisman?

2. Anyone else watch the Pony Excess?

 

I thought the right guy won the Heisman, although as I stated in another topic, they should not have brought the Cam Newton interview into the ceremony. It kind of ruined part of the experience. And this Pony Excess 30 for 30 is really interesting. It’s good stuff.

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

i have mixed feelings about it…. for one newton may have gotten money to get into auburn, therefore he cheated, hence he shouldnt even be in running for the award, second, it was reported he didnt know his dad did some kind of bad deed to get his son into auburn, idk the full story but disregarding the allegations, newton due to his amazing play did deserve it off of performance alone. all the other stuff, no one knows what went behind those closed doors with him recieving money.

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

i have mixed feelings about it…. for one newton may have gotten money to get into auburn, therefore he cheated, hence he shouldnt even be in running for the award, second, it was reported he didnt know his dad did some kind of bad deed to get his son into auburn, idk the full story but disregarding the allegations, newton due to his amazing play did deserve it off of performance alone. all the other stuff, no one knows what went behind those closed doors with him recieving money.

[HaleParticipant]

I don’t really like Cam, and I don’t know if he was guilty. But he was the most outstanding player in the country this year. I like LaMichael James and Andrew Luck a lot more (especially as pro’s) but I have to give Newton his due.

[HaleParticipant]

I don’t really like Cam, and I don’t know if he was guilty. But he was the most outstanding player in the country this year. I like LaMichael James and Andrew Luck a lot more (especially as pro’s) but I have to give Newton his due.

[PlatypusParticipant]

If Cam Newton was ruled inelligible, who should have gotten the heisman?

[PlatypusParticipant]

If Cam Newton was ruled inelligible, who should have gotten the heisman?

[andxxxParticipant]

 Why don’t you like Cam? He doesn’t seem like the worst person in the world

[andxxxParticipant]

 Why don’t you like Cam? He doesn’t seem like the worst person in the world

[SubZeroParticipant]

Yeah Cam is a class act. I agree though, I think James and Luck (maybe Moore too) are better prospects for the NFL

[SubZeroParticipant]

Yeah Cam is a class act. I agree though, I think James and Luck (maybe Moore too) are better prospects for the NFL

[llperez]

from everything ive heard, newton was the hands down winner. But i think the ncaa look like punks for not doing anything when they found cams father guilty of shopping his son. I promise you if newton was an average player or playing on a average team they would have taken action. What the ncaa just said, is that it is totally allowed to shop your kids for money as long as their is no paper evidnce that money was actually exchanged and the kid says he didnt know about it.

[llperez]

from everything ive heard, newton was the hands down winner. But i think the ncaa look like punks for not doing anything when they found cams father guilty of shopping his son. I promise you if newton was an average player or playing on a average team they would have taken action. What the ncaa just said, is that it is totally allowed to shop your kids for money as long as their is no paper evidnce that money was actually exchanged and the kid says he didnt know about it.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Getting money to enter a certain college is not cheating!  Him receiving money and being the best player in FBS have no direct correlation.  Where ever he would have played, he would have receieved the award.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Getting money to enter a certain college is not cheating!  Him receiving money and being the best player in FBS have no direct correlation.  Where ever he would have played, he would have receieved the award.

[HaleParticipant]

It’s not like I hate him. I just am not a fan of the whole situation, it has been really annoying for the past 5 weeks or so. Too much of his name all over ESPN made me sick of him.

[HaleParticipant]

It’s not like I hate him. I just am not a fan of the whole situation, it has been really annoying for the past 5 weeks or so. Too much of his name all over ESPN made me sick of him.

[llperez]

toungue out, getting money to go to college is pretty much the defenition of cheating. It wouldnt have effected his abilities im sure. BUt if schools buy players, thats called cheating.

[llperez]

toungue out, getting money to go to college is pretty much the defenition of cheating. It wouldnt have effected his abilities im sure. BUt if schools buy players, thats called cheating.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

If that’s the case, the school should lose it’s wins and not play in the BCS game.. but to take away personal accomplishments?  No.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

If that’s the case, the school should lose it’s wins and not play in the BCS game.. but to take away personal accomplishments?  No.

[llperez]

i dont think they should take away personal accomplishments. I justt think the ncaa came off looking like hypocrits big time here.

[llperez]

i dont think they should take away personal accomplishments. I justt think the ncaa came off looking like hypocrits big time here.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Why do you think that?

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Why do you think that?

[HaleParticipant]

I know two RB’s who both were Heisman candidates and play in the NFL who took money and got away with it. My friend is one of their cousins and he told me all about it.

But yeah it’s still wrong. Most cases you won’t get caught though.

[HaleParticipant]

I know two RB’s who both were Heisman candidates and play in the NFL who took money and got away with it. My friend is one of their cousins and he told me all about it.

But yeah it’s still wrong. Most cases you won’t get caught though.

[DanEboyParticipant]

The Heisman is supposed to be this ‘pure’ award given to an athlete that explemplifies those qualities yet the NCAA is making millions off these kids and giving nothing back, just filling their own pockets.

The whole thing is a joke and the award is out of date anyway. No one really cares about winning the thing anymore. It used to be prestigious but athletes make so much money now, they don’t really care. Just ask Reggie Bush.

And for those who don’t think Newton will be a good pro, you obviously didn’t watch him play. The guy is no Tim Tebow. He has a canon arm, is extremely accurate, highly intelligent, and his will to win is off the charts. He will be what Vince Young should have been,

[DanEboyParticipant]

The Heisman is supposed to be this ‘pure’ award given to an athlete that explemplifies those qualities yet the NCAA is making millions off these kids and giving nothing back, just filling their own pockets.

The whole thing is a joke and the award is out of date anyway. No one really cares about winning the thing anymore. It used to be prestigious but athletes make so much money now, they don’t really care. Just ask Reggie Bush.

And for those who don’t think Newton will be a good pro, you obviously didn’t watch him play. The guy is no Tim Tebow. He has a canon arm, is extremely accurate, highly intelligent, and his will to win is off the charts. He will be what Vince Young should have been,

[HaleParticipant]

I didn’t say he wouldn’t be a good pro. But I will take Andrew Luck over him anyday as my pro QB, and LaMichael James is one of the best college RB’s I’ve seen. 

[HaleParticipant]

I didn’t say he wouldn’t be a good pro. But I will take Andrew Luck over him anyday as my pro QB, and LaMichael James is one of the best college RB’s I’ve seen. 

[DanEboyParticipant]

LaMichael James is nasty. At 5’9 180lbs though, teams will take a long look at him. Those type of guys usually don’t last long in the NFL.

Marcus Lattimore will be a beast in 2 years. Already is.

[DanEboyParticipant]

LaMichael James is nasty. At 5’9 180lbs though, teams will take a long look at him. Those type of guys usually don’t last long in the NFL.

Marcus Lattimore will be a beast in 2 years. Already is.

[HaleParticipant]

Oh I totally agree. Lattimore is a stud, I’ve been paying a lot of attention to him. He will be a top 10 pick for sure. I’m happy my boy AJ Green has done so well too.

[HaleParticipant]

Oh I totally agree. Lattimore is a stud, I’ve been paying a lot of attention to him. He will be a top 10 pick for sure. I’m happy my boy AJ Green has done so well too.

[llperez]

@toungue out, in regards to you asking why i think the ncaa loooks like hypocrits. Its becasue they said they found evidence to prove cams dad did in fact shop his son yet they did nothing in terms of punishment. So basically they are saying that shopping your kids to colleges is allowed and no punishment will come down if you do so. This is the same NCAA that brought heavy sanctions on USC for the reggie bush situation that had nothing to do with USC. Reggie bush and his familty lived in san diego. They met an agent in san diego. In san diego they exchanged money. The university of USC was a couple hundred miles away and the ncaa admits they have nothing to do with it. BUt becasue bush and his family did something illegegal, they brought the hammer down on USC. This is very consistent with college atheltics getting punished for even minor fractions. However, in the cam newton case, we are talking about a CURRENT player who is worht millions to college RIGHT NOW playing on the one of the best teams right now. So the ncaa completely turned their head and did nothing. You have to have your head buried in the sand to not realize that cam being a heisman candidate on a national championship team had something to do with their dicision to not take any action.

[llperez]

@toungue out, in regards to you asking why i think the ncaa loooks like hypocrits. Its becasue they said they found evidence to prove cams dad did in fact shop his son yet they did nothing in terms of punishment. So basically they are saying that shopping your kids to colleges is allowed and no punishment will come down if you do so. This is the same NCAA that brought heavy sanctions on USC for the reggie bush situation that had nothing to do with USC. Reggie bush and his familty lived in san diego. They met an agent in san diego. In san diego they exchanged money. The university of USC was a couple hundred miles away and the ncaa admits they have nothing to do with it. BUt becasue bush and his family did something illegegal, they brought the hammer down on USC. This is very consistent with college atheltics getting punished for even minor fractions. However, in the cam newton case, we are talking about a CURRENT player who is worht millions to college RIGHT NOW playing on the one of the best teams right now. So the ncaa completely turned their head and did nothing. You have to have your head buried in the sand to not realize that cam being a heisman candidate on a national championship team had something to do with their dicision to not take any action.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Ok, I understand what you’re saying.. but when you said

"You have to have your head buried in the sand to not realize that cam being a heisman candidate on a national championship team had something to do with their dicision to not take any action."

 

Reggie Bush was a Heisman candidate on a National Championship team as well soo….. what are you trying to point out there?

 

Although I completely agree that what he did wasn’t the right thing to do, it’s a business isn’t it?  Why is it that colleges are able to promote themselves and make millions by promoting players, but if a player promotes himself based soley on his hard work, it’s bad?  Cam Newton did nothing wrong on the field, all he did was play the game the right way.  That’s like taking away Allen Iverson’s MVP award because of his 40 bars single.  What is done on the court/field shouldn’t be punished for what is done outside is all I’m saying.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Ok, I understand what you’re saying.. but when you said

"You have to have your head buried in the sand to not realize that cam being a heisman candidate on a national championship team had something to do with their dicision to not take any action."

 

Reggie Bush was a Heisman candidate on a National Championship team as well soo….. what are you trying to point out there?

 

Although I completely agree that what he did wasn’t the right thing to do, it’s a business isn’t it?  Why is it that colleges are able to promote themselves and make millions by promoting players, but if a player promotes himself based soley on his hard work, it’s bad?  Cam Newton did nothing wrong on the field, all he did was play the game the right way.  That’s like taking away Allen Iverson’s MVP award because of his 40 bars single.  What is done on the court/field shouldn’t be punished for what is done outside is all I’m saying.

[llperez]

toungue out, the reggie comparison is there becasue they busted reggie after he no longer meant money for the ncaa. Cam means money for college right now, so they will let his actions slide. If a player means money (newton) he gets off free. If a player does not mean money(bush half a decade after he already left college) then they bring the hammer.

Again, i dont blame cam his dad or the school. If the ncaa wants to sit around and turn a blind eye, then by all means make your money. But the ncaa needs to be consistent and they aren’t. This situation makes me upset with the ncaa.

[llperez]

toungue out, the reggie comparison is there becasue they busted reggie after he no longer meant money for the ncaa. Cam means money for college right now, so they will let his actions slide. If a player means money (newton) he gets off free. If a player does not mean money(bush half a decade after he already left college) then they bring the hammer.

Again, i dont blame cam his dad or the school. If the ncaa wants to sit around and turn a blind eye, then by all means make your money. But the ncaa needs to be consistent and they aren’t. This situation makes me upset with the ncaa.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Okay, I completely understand you now

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Okay, I completely understand you now

[HaleParticipant]

Actually thinking back, Newton isn’t very accurate at all. He is a boom or bust guy. He has a lot of potential but a lot of red flags. The fact that he runs a spread and usually one goes to one read before he takes off really worries me about how he will be able to produce in the NFL. You can’t get away with that. It’s not like he runs a pro offense like Luck and goes through his progessions well (something Luck does extrememly well). Right now, I’m down on Newton as a prospect.

[HaleParticipant]

Actually thinking back, Newton isn’t very accurate at all. He is a boom or bust guy. He has a lot of potential but a lot of red flags. The fact that he runs a spread and usually one goes to one read before he takes off really worries me about how he will be able to produce in the NFL. You can’t get away with that. It’s not like he runs a pro offense like Luck and goes through his progessions well (something Luck does extrememly well). Right now, I’m down on Newton as a prospect.

[DanEboyParticipant]

Newton is very accurate and has a canon arm with a quick release. Also, he is extremely intelligent about reading defenses, being able to check down receivers, stay calm in the pocket and find the open man.

You are off on Newton.

[DanEboyParticipant]

Newton is very accurate and has a canon arm with a quick release. Also, he is extremely intelligent about reading defenses, being able to check down receivers, stay calm in the pocket and find the open man.

You are off on Newton.

[JNixonParticipant]

Yeah I think worse case your looking at a more mentally stable Vince Young in Cam Newton. He should be a very strong player in the NFL. He’s accurate with a strong arm, stands tall and sees the field well, and as an added bonus he has what seems to be 4.4 speed at 6’6 and what looks to be anywhere from 235-245. He’s going to be just fine I’d think. Joe Flacco and Josh Freeman are young QB’s with eerily similar stature and offensive backgrounds as Newton (all 3 are physically gifted, young, and ran one and 2 read spread offenses in college). The only difference is Newton has rare class athleticism. I dont see how he could fail.

[JNixonParticipant]

Yeah I think worse case your looking at a more mentally stable Vince Young in Cam Newton. He should be a very strong player in the NFL. He’s accurate with a strong arm, stands tall and sees the field well, and as an added bonus he has what seems to be 4.4 speed at 6’6 and what looks to be anywhere from 235-245. He’s going to be just fine I’d think. Joe Flacco and Josh Freeman are young QB’s with eerily similar stature and offensive backgrounds as Newton (all 3 are physically gifted, young, and ran one and 2 read spread offenses in college). The only difference is Newton has rare class athleticism. I dont see how he could fail.

[SteroidParticipant]

Accurate on what level? How many other college QBs went to the NFL that were very accurate with canon arms that aren’t even playing? Arm strength is overrated.

 Yeah, the spread offense is a gimmick offense which greatly masks a player’s weakness. Cam Newton is a good college player, but I really don’t see him being a good pro prospect. I would credit Gus for Cam’s "intelligence", and credit his athleticism for making a play out of nothing. I think Auburn’s DT is a better prospect than Cam.

[SteroidParticipant]

Accurate on what level? How many other college QBs went to the NFL that were very accurate with canon arms that aren’t even playing? Arm strength is overrated.

 Yeah, the spread offense is a gimmick offense which greatly masks a player’s weakness. Cam Newton is a good college player, but I really don’t see him being a good pro prospect. I would credit Gus for Cam’s "intelligence", and credit his athleticism for making a play out of nothing. I think Auburn’s DT is a better prospect than Cam.

[JNixonParticipant]

"How many other college QBs went to the NFL that were very accurate with canon arms that aren’t even playing?"

Unles you are literally retarded and have no football IQ, if you are very accurate and have a cannon arm you are a good starting QB. Name 1 QB who has a strong arm and very good accuracy with at least basic footbal knowledge who isn’t playing. There is no such thing in todays NFL.

[JNixonParticipant]

"How many other college QBs went to the NFL that were very accurate with canon arms that aren’t even playing?"

Unles you are literally retarded and have no football IQ, if you are very accurate and have a cannon arm you are a good starting QB. Name 1 QB who has a strong arm and very good accuracy with at least basic footbal knowledge who isn’t playing. There is no such thing in todays NFL.

[JNixonParticipant]

"Yeah, the spread offense is a gimmick offense which greatly masks a player’s weakness. Cam Newton is a good college player, but I really don’t see him being a good pro prospect. I would credit Gus for Cam’s "intelligence", and credit his athleticism for making a play out of nothing. I think Auburn’s DT is a better prospect than Cam."

Tell that to Sam Bradford, Josh Freeman, Joe Flacco, and Aaron Rodgers. All young QB’s who played in true spread offenses in college and are having good success in the NFL. It’s not impossible to have a prolific career in the NFL if you play in a spread in college, especially if you have the skill set, physical ability and athleticism Newton has.

[JNixonParticipant]

"Yeah, the spread offense is a gimmick offense which greatly masks a player’s weakness. Cam Newton is a good college player, but I really don’t see him being a good pro prospect. I would credit Gus for Cam’s "intelligence", and credit his athleticism for making a play out of nothing. I think Auburn’s DT is a better prospect than Cam."

Tell that to Sam Bradford, Josh Freeman, Joe Flacco, and Aaron Rodgers. All young QB’s who played in true spread offenses in college and are having good success in the NFL. It’s not impossible to have a prolific career in the NFL if you play in a spread in college, especially if you have the skill set, physical ability and athleticism Newton has.

[SteroidParticipant]

Cam Newton hasn’t played a single snap in the NFL for anyone to say he will be an accurate, NFL quarterback, let alone start in the NFL, and not every single guy that is accurate in college and has a cannon arm will make a good NFL quarterback. It takes more than those two things to make a good NFL quarterback. I think the literally retarted comment goes the other way around. The coverages quarterbacks have to read in the NFL are extremely more complex than the coverages in college, so for all we know, his accuracy might not even translate. Moreover, almost every QB in the NFL, even the ones riding the bench or on practice squads, has been an elite player in college with good accuracy and/or cannon arms.

Prime example: Jamarcus Russell. College stats: 67.8 completion pct, 3129 yards, 167 QB rating. He was drafted based on your criteria of what makes a good quarterback, and look how that turned out.

NFL stats: 52.1 comp %, 4083 career yards, 65.2 QB rating…

College accuracy =/= NFL accuracy. Whole other level, man..

[SteroidParticipant]

Cam Newton hasn’t played a single snap in the NFL for anyone to say he will be an accurate, NFL quarterback, let alone start in the NFL, and not every single guy that is accurate in college and has a cannon arm will make a good NFL quarterback. It takes more than those two things to make a good NFL quarterback. I think the literally retarted comment goes the other way around. The coverages quarterbacks have to read in the NFL are extremely more complex than the coverages in college, so for all we know, his accuracy might not even translate. Moreover, almost every QB in the NFL, even the ones riding the bench or on practice squads, has been an elite player in college with good accuracy and/or cannon arms.

Prime example: Jamarcus Russell. College stats: 67.8 completion pct, 3129 yards, 167 QB rating. He was drafted based on your criteria of what makes a good quarterback, and look how that turned out.

NFL stats: 52.1 comp %, 4083 career yards, 65.2 QB rating…

College accuracy =/= NFL accuracy. Whole other level, man..

[HaleParticipant]

I would say average-good for Newtons accuracy at best. He hasn’t gotten much better as a passer in 2 years, just plays smarter.

"Also, he is extremely intelligent about reading defenses, being able to check down receivers, stay calm in the pocket and find the open man."

Since when? He looks at one read then tucks and runs. He doesn’t go through projections well at all. He looks at one guy then takes off. He doesn’t run a pro style offense (I doubt he could at this point) and is at the very least a project.

"Yeah I think worse case your looking at a more mentally stable Vince Young in Cam Newton"

I like the comparison because they are about the same size with probably the same level of athleticism. Newton is Vince Young without the crap throwing motion. He is also a project like Young was.

[HaleParticipant]

I would say average-good for Newtons accuracy at best. He hasn’t gotten much better as a passer in 2 years, just plays smarter.

"Also, he is extremely intelligent about reading defenses, being able to check down receivers, stay calm in the pocket and find the open man."

Since when? He looks at one read then tucks and runs. He doesn’t go through projections well at all. He looks at one guy then takes off. He doesn’t run a pro style offense (I doubt he could at this point) and is at the very least a project.

"Yeah I think worse case your looking at a more mentally stable Vince Young in Cam Newton"

I like the comparison because they are about the same size with probably the same level of athleticism. Newton is Vince Young without the crap throwing motion. He is also a project like Young was.

[SteroidParticipant]

And I never said good players don’t come out a spread offense. "Yeah, the spread offense is a gimmick offense which greatly masks a player’s weakness", which it does.  That says nothing of the sort. My whole argument was that we can’t say that this guy will be a good NFL quarterback based on what he has done in college. Many QBs before him has had phenomenal seasons, and they didn’t live up to their college status. I say wait to see what he can do against NFL defenses before we say he has good enough accuracy, intelligence, or w/e to be a starter in the NFL

[SteroidParticipant]

And I never said good players don’t come out a spread offense. "Yeah, the spread offense is a gimmick offense which greatly masks a player’s weakness", which it does.  That says nothing of the sort. My whole argument was that we can’t say that this guy will be a good NFL quarterback based on what he has done in college. Many QBs before him has had phenomenal seasons, and they didn’t live up to their college status. I say wait to see what he can do against NFL defenses before we say he has good enough accuracy, intelligence, or w/e to be a starter in the NFL

[Author]

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