[King CaluchaParticipant]

Losing by 35 at MSG… 3rd quarter. It’s not like they have a terrible roster. Why aren’t they running sets? If it doesn’t come from Prigioni’s creativity from time to time, they just go for the iso… that’s terrible.

Even more terrible: They’re not tanking this season… they can’t afford to do it. I think this is it for Mike Woodson.

[Meditated StatesParticipant]

 Not enough D. Shop Carmello because he is not the answer. Shop JR he is not the answer. Both guys should bring you back some good pieces.  They have a team of jackers. Melo does not make others better. Sullinger punished Barngioni and it took Woodson too long to adjust. They let Crawford get hot when its Shumperts job to stop that. Looks like a bad team without Tyson and they are overrated with him as well.

[Meditated StatesParticipant]

 Not enough D. Shop Carmello because he is not the answer. Shop JR he is not the answer. Both guys should bring you back some good pieces.  They have a team of jackers. Melo does not make others better. Sullinger punished Barngioni and it took Woodson too long to adjust. They let Crawford get hot when its Shumperts job to stop that. Looks like a bad team without Tyson and they are overrated with him as well.

[AmiableBaller34Participant]

 Knicks played terrible, and the Celtics played great today. Without Tyson out there, the Celtics would just post up Bass, Sully, or Green; get an easy two, or wait for the D to collapse, and then kick it out for three which they hit with regularity today. I know this sounds kind of odd considering Brandon Bass/sully are the Celtics centers, but the Knicks just got over powered today. They’re getting out rebounded 40-22 right now, and they have no ball movement what so ever. Only 11 ast, and 3 from their starters. You can’t compete playing like that, and I’m glad the Knicks fans (The ones who actually stayed) are booing them right now. 

[AmiableBaller34Participant]

 Knicks played terrible, and the Celtics played great today. Without Tyson out there, the Celtics would just post up Bass, Sully, or Green; get an easy two, or wait for the D to collapse, and then kick it out for three which they hit with regularity today. I know this sounds kind of odd considering Brandon Bass/sully are the Celtics centers, but the Knicks just got over powered today. They’re getting out rebounded 40-22 right now, and they have no ball movement what so ever. Only 11 ast, and 3 from their starters. You can’t compete playing like that, and I’m glad the Knicks fans (The ones who actually stayed) are booing them right now. 

[NYBALLASParticipant]

 Melo sucks and is essentially a 6’8 version of Gilbert arenas a guy who can easily get you 22+ pts per game but won’t help a team win. Ive been saying this for years amongst my frat when NY got melo and to my friends I’m from NY. He’s not a pop and shoot player the ball stops on his hands. Plus like anyone who’s watched basketball for years we all know mike woodsons offense is very simple it all just runs through the stars of the team a lot of I so and little ball movement the ball just gets in a stars hands and everything else stops. Thats what he did in ATL with horford/smith/Johnson and thats why he got fired cause it works during a season but against true legit competition it won’t work he gets out coached. Scout 4 real is completely right they need to trade melo but with a shitty owner who has ruined one of the best organizations in sports it won’t happen he’s too egotistical to make a move like that.

 

I hate the Knicks I grew up in the isiah Thomas years and when Allen Houston got that unbelievable rediculous deal he was not worthy of and I’ve never been able to bring myself to root for them at all and what cements that even more is look at Denver. For melo a guy who I don’t think ever got Denver out of the 1st round they got in return a top 10 pick Danillo, Chandler, and Mozgov which all will help them in the playoffs with a talented player soon to be added. One hell of a fucking deal lol 

 

 

[NYBALLASParticipant]

 Melo sucks and is essentially a 6’8 version of Gilbert arenas a guy who can easily get you 22+ pts per game but won’t help a team win. Ive been saying this for years amongst my frat when NY got melo and to my friends I’m from NY. He’s not a pop and shoot player the ball stops on his hands. Plus like anyone who’s watched basketball for years we all know mike woodsons offense is very simple it all just runs through the stars of the team a lot of I so and little ball movement the ball just gets in a stars hands and everything else stops. Thats what he did in ATL with horford/smith/Johnson and thats why he got fired cause it works during a season but against true legit competition it won’t work he gets out coached. Scout 4 real is completely right they need to trade melo but with a shitty owner who has ruined one of the best organizations in sports it won’t happen he’s too egotistical to make a move like that.

 

I hate the Knicks I grew up in the isiah Thomas years and when Allen Houston got that unbelievable rediculous deal he was not worthy of and I’ve never been able to bring myself to root for them at all and what cements that even more is look at Denver. For melo a guy who I don’t think ever got Denver out of the 1st round they got in return a top 10 pick Danillo, Chandler, and Mozgov which all will help them in the playoffs with a talented player soon to be added. One hell of a fucking deal lol 

 

 

[XYRYXParticipant]

After checking out the boxscore against the Celtics game I thought about creating a post saying they really need to blow it up right now. They won’t go nowhere this team even if Chandler comes back and it is really embarassing to the Knicks fanbase. I think they have been patient enough till this point and need to start over. I would even explore trading Melo now. What do they have to lose???

[XYRYXParticipant]

After checking out the boxscore against the Celtics game I thought about creating a post saying they really need to blow it up right now. They won’t go nowhere this team even if Chandler comes back and it is really embarassing to the Knicks fanbase. I think they have been patient enough till this point and need to start over. I would even explore trading Melo now. What do they have to lose???

[GlenTaylorSucksParticipant]

Jason Kidd had an infectious team first mentality that pervaded the team, and allowed for them to have much better ball movement. Get rid of him, and the ball movement stops. See all the iso’s that happen now? That’s what happens when you have ‘Melo on offense without anyone telling him to move the ball on the court. 

Also, Bargnani + Melo + JR Smith…you need like 40 basketballs to make them happy. Also, there’s nobody besides Shump and Chandler who’s even remotely interested in playing D; Chandler’s out, and the Knicks are shopping Shump. They don’t have many tradeable assets.

Dolan did a great job running this team into the ground, and now he’s reaping the rewards. Woodson and/or Melo will be gone by this time next year, guaranteed

 

 

 

 

[GlenTaylorSucksParticipant]

Jason Kidd had an infectious team first mentality that pervaded the team, and allowed for them to have much better ball movement. Get rid of him, and the ball movement stops. See all the iso’s that happen now? That’s what happens when you have ‘Melo on offense without anyone telling him to move the ball on the court. 

Also, Bargnani + Melo + JR Smith…you need like 40 basketballs to make them happy. Also, there’s nobody besides Shump and Chandler who’s even remotely interested in playing D; Chandler’s out, and the Knicks are shopping Shump. They don’t have many tradeable assets.

Dolan did a great job running this team into the ground, and now he’s reaping the rewards. Woodson and/or Melo will be gone by this time next year, guaranteed

 

 

 

 

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

Sure, this set of players is iso-happy, but that is also a matter of good (or in Woodson’s case bad) coaching. A time like BOS does not has more talent, but Stevens lets them use a variety of offensive sets, which creates easy scoring opportunities. I think a new coach, with good offensive sets, and the return of Chandler can still push them to the play-offs. Potentially, they have a pretty good team with scoring from Anthony and Smith, defense from Shumpert and Chandler and a very underrated veteran in Prigioni. 

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

Sure, this set of players is iso-happy, but that is also a matter of good (or in Woodson’s case bad) coaching. A time like BOS does not has more talent, but Stevens lets them use a variety of offensive sets, which creates easy scoring opportunities. I think a new coach, with good offensive sets, and the return of Chandler can still push them to the play-offs. Potentially, they have a pretty good team with scoring from Anthony and Smith, defense from Shumpert and Chandler and a very underrated veteran in Prigioni. 

[akaftanParticipant]

The difference between Anthony in the NBA and Anthony at the Olympics, when he is surrounded by players that are of equal or superior talent, is stark. When playing for Team USA, Anthony DOES move well without the ball, he DOES catch-and-shoot quickly within the flow of the offense, and he DOES execute quick and effective post moves. 

The obvious talent disparity between the Knicks and Team USA should not a priori preclude him for playing a similar style in the NBA.  And I don’t think it’s the lack of elite distributors on the Knicks that necessarily prevents him from playing as he does in the Olympics; it may hamper him somewhat, but the difference in Anthony’s playing style is too great to pin it on that.  

An easy answer, though one that I ultimately hold to be misguided, is to believe that Anthony must carry a greater scoring-burden, and is somewhat forced into his NBA style.  For many players, the role they play hinges partially on their talent relative to their peers, and partially (or mostly) on their mentality–i.e. what THEY view their role to be among their peers–not what it could or should be.  

 The 2008-09 Marquette Golden Warriors are an example of how an individual can radically change despite the circumstances being relatively unaltered.  I was a college junior at MU when Dominic James, Jerrel McNeal, and Wesley Matthews formed the nucleus of a team, which also had Lazar Hayward and Jimmy Butler, that could have competed for the Final Four.  McNeal and Mattews were both excellent players.  James had been hyped as a freshman and sophomore, but had badly regressed by time he was a senior; and while he was very good on defense, on offense he simply brought the ball up and passed on the wing, usually to either Matthews or McNeal.  Sometime in January or February, James suffered a foot injury, and was out for an extended period of time.  Maurice Acker, an offensively-challenged 5’8" redshirt junior, replaced him as the starter.  

Acker was not actually a step down from James, since to be James’ equal, all Acker had to do was play good defense, bring the ball up, and pass it to whomever was on the wing.  Despite this, McNeal went NUTS.  If before he played within the flow of the offense, afterwards he recklessly drove to the rim, hoisted ill-advised shots, and killed ball movement.  In this situation, McNeal’s role didn’t need to change, but he thought that it had to, so he forced a change where change was not necessary.  

And while Anthony has vastly inferior teammates on the Knicks compared to team USA and thus has an inherently different role, his primary hurdle is the way he views his role.  He COULD move well without the ball; he COULD catch and shoot quickly within the flow of the offense; he COULD execute quick and effective post moves, but doesn’t, and this happens because he (possibly subconsciously) chooses to not have it happen.  

 

[akaftanParticipant]

The difference between Anthony in the NBA and Anthony at the Olympics, when he is surrounded by players that are of equal or superior talent, is stark. When playing for Team USA, Anthony DOES move well without the ball, he DOES catch-and-shoot quickly within the flow of the offense, and he DOES execute quick and effective post moves. 

The obvious talent disparity between the Knicks and Team USA should not a priori preclude him for playing a similar style in the NBA.  And I don’t think it’s the lack of elite distributors on the Knicks that necessarily prevents him from playing as he does in the Olympics; it may hamper him somewhat, but the difference in Anthony’s playing style is too great to pin it on that.  

An easy answer, though one that I ultimately hold to be misguided, is to believe that Anthony must carry a greater scoring-burden, and is somewhat forced into his NBA style.  For many players, the role they play hinges partially on their talent relative to their peers, and partially (or mostly) on their mentality–i.e. what THEY view their role to be among their peers–not what it could or should be.  

 The 2008-09 Marquette Golden Warriors are an example of how an individual can radically change despite the circumstances being relatively unaltered.  I was a college junior at MU when Dominic James, Jerrel McNeal, and Wesley Matthews formed the nucleus of a team, which also had Lazar Hayward and Jimmy Butler, that could have competed for the Final Four.  McNeal and Mattews were both excellent players.  James had been hyped as a freshman and sophomore, but had badly regressed by time he was a senior; and while he was very good on defense, on offense he simply brought the ball up and passed on the wing, usually to either Matthews or McNeal.  Sometime in January or February, James suffered a foot injury, and was out for an extended period of time.  Maurice Acker, an offensively-challenged 5’8" redshirt junior, replaced him as the starter.  

Acker was not actually a step down from James, since to be James’ equal, all Acker had to do was play good defense, bring the ball up, and pass it to whomever was on the wing.  Despite this, McNeal went NUTS.  If before he played within the flow of the offense, afterwards he recklessly drove to the rim, hoisted ill-advised shots, and killed ball movement.  In this situation, McNeal’s role didn’t need to change, but he thought that it had to, so he forced a change where change was not necessary.  

And while Anthony has vastly inferior teammates on the Knicks compared to team USA and thus has an inherently different role, his primary hurdle is the way he views his role.  He COULD move well without the ball; he COULD catch and shoot quickly within the flow of the offense; he COULD execute quick and effective post moves, but doesn’t, and this happens because he (possibly subconsciously) chooses to not have it happen.  

 

[mcbaileyParticipant]

 Can we also talk about Boston? They might still be mediocre, but in terms of how mediocre I thought they’d be, they’re actually playing pretty well.

[King CaluchaParticipant]

I’d say the Celtics have a terrible roster with a great coach… who makes them look mediocre. Hopefully they get a nice pick and draft wisely next offseason.

As for the Knicks… I think they looked OK last season. The ball was moving well and Melo was shooting within the flow of the offense often… however, it seems it was the result of having a two-PG lineup with solid, high-IQ veterans leading the team offensively. Woodson got exposed, because JKidd is not there anymore.

[King CaluchaParticipant]

I’d say the Celtics have a terrible roster with a great coach… who makes them look mediocre. Hopefully they get a nice pick and draft wisely next offseason.

As for the Knicks… I think they looked OK last season. The ball was moving well and Melo was shooting within the flow of the offense often… however, it seems it was the result of having a two-PG lineup with solid, high-IQ veterans leading the team offensively. Woodson got exposed, because JKidd is not there anymore.

[mcbaileyParticipant]

 Can we also talk about Boston? They might still be mediocre, but in terms of how mediocre I thought they’d be, they’re actually playing pretty well.

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