[ChicagoCaseyParticipant]

* I’m not saying this will happen or is this in the talks. This is all hypotheticals, even though I believe eventually this will happen.

I read a series of articles on a website called "bulletsforever", and the site had some intriguing takeaways on how an overseas division could work, breaking down from the support to the market. I thought of a hypothetical question, If the NBA had to expand, would it go with the overseason route, or stay local? I believe the best move to grow the game, which Adam Silver plans to do, the smart move is to have a 6 team division in western Europe. 

In the series of articles, bulletsforever, the writer threw out the best places for the teams in said division should/would be located. The locations are Amsterdam, Netherlands; Berlin, Germeny; London, United Kingdom; Madrid, Spain; Milan, Italy; and Paris France. The cities, if it expands to 6 in the USA/Canada, would most likely be Vancouver, Seattle, Louiville, Las Vegas, Pittsburgh, and Kansas City if it expands over here. I believe the overseas route is much better than those 6 cities, if they expand it to 6, I believe if it expands locally it would only be about 4 teams.

 I know many would have question about travel distance, scheduling, and if players would want to play overseas. The answer is, the NBA have the answer for the scheduling and travel distance. Those two things won’t be a problem because teams played games overseas before. When they travel overseas and came back to the states the team typically have two or three games off. The distance from the 6 teams won’t be a problem because they are not far apart as many might think. And I’m pretty sure if a player that cares about his "brand" would come to, what would be, the fourth biggest market in the USA (New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago). I don’t know why people question that when those places have huge markets. 

I know the NBA won’t do this now or the near future because they have to figure some problems in the league. I ultimatley believe the NBA will be in a lockout in the near future, to fix the new contract structure that would make it harder for super teams to form together, and maybe the players have a bigger chunk of the cash. Also, I believe Adam Silver would like to figure out / fix the "one and done" rule, have every team have their own D-League affiliate, fix the lottery system, and some more things before they consider expansion.

In my personal opinion, this is the best move the NBA could do to expand it’s brand in terms of making the NBA a more global league. I know some question the idea, but this move is best for the league to get more eye balls and compete with the likes of Soccer. I don’t think this gets done in the next 5 years, but it won’t surprise me if this expansion won’t pop off in 5-10 years. I believe players would actually go to the big time markets overseas and that the scheduling/traveling would not be a problem.

Here are the links of the artiles forr "bulletsforever"

• http://www.bulletsforever.com/2016/8/17/12496902/hypothetical-nba-europe-division-london-united-kingdom
  
• http://www.bulletsforever.com/2016/8/10/12373160/hypothetical-nba-europe-division-berlin-germany
• http://www.bulletsforever.com/2016/8/3/12335242/hypothetical-nba-europe-division-amsterdam-netherlands

This is a interesting read if you have any doubts.

 

 

 

 

 

[terrancebowerParticipant]

 I think a Euro division would be confined to Europe most of the season – they might play a good chunk of the American teams once but it would be way too much travel to do on a regular basis. 6 hour jet lag takes a few days to shake off, and if you’re traveling 20 hours a week when are you practicing? When are you working out? How does that affect your sleep habits? 

This is also a problem because, say you play for Paris and you’re trying to make a name for yourself as an up and coming PG, it’s kind of tough because you’re playing in a weaker division (obviously these teams would have more European players and would probably not quite be on par with current NBA teams) and you’d also only see other star players once a year or so. If you’re a point guard you want to go up against the Currys and Westbrooks and Pauls of the world, that’s how you get better and show everyone what you’re made of. If you play the same 5 teams 12 times each per season that’s pretty boring for the fans too.

How would playoffs work? Top two teams from Euro division get a seed in the playoffs, one in the East one in the West? You can’t change the number of seeds and keep the same format unless you bump it all  the way up to 32 teams.

Not saying this so say it’s wrong or a bad idea, but those are the issues that I think would prevent this from being a success right now.

 

[ChicagoCaseyParticipant]

To answer a few questions……

1. The travel from western Europe to places on the East coast is the same thing as traveling from New York to LA.
2. The League will feature NBA players, they get players from the same draft and get players from the same free agency pool. So, I don’t know why you believe the team will be filled with european players 
3. I answered, and the NBA already answered you question about the flight schedule. You can look at the days off between the Indiana Pacers and Denver Nuggets game when they are playing in Europe when coming back into the USA. I’m pretty sure they have a number of days off in between games coming back. We seen other teams play overseas and they had a number of days off when coming back.
4. And I’m pretty sure Adam Silver and the league offices can figue out how to fix the current playoffs format
5. Also, the teams will travel to the US and vice versa, they would have a regular NBA schedule.

 

[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

 I’ve flown Seattle to Boston then Boston to Munich Germany….trust me it’s not the same

this will never happen

[ChicagoCaseyParticipant]

 Yes, Boston to Berlin is a longer trip, but BOSTON to Amsterdam is almost the same, and Boston to Paris is very similar to Seattle to Boston. 

Let me break down the travel distance (hours, minutes):

• Boston to Seattle – 5 hours and 10 minutes 
• Boston to Paris – 6 hours and 45 minutes 
• Boston to Amsterdam – 7 hours – 0 minutes
• Boston to Madrid – 7 hours and 0 minutes 
• Boston to London – 6 hours and 25 minutes 
• Boston to Berlin – 10 hours and 40 minutes 

It’s very similar times to New York and Los Angeles. You used Germany because that’s the furthest from the group. You can easily go to London to start the European trip. You could easily research before questioning the time of the flight before doubting the idea of the travel time.

To point out another fact: Miami to Seattle is 6 hours to 35 minutes.

 

 

[losnopesosParticipant]

You don’t have to go through customs when you fly from Boston to Seattle.

[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

Not to mention the jet lag..

[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

 So for a west coast team it’s an 11-12 hour trip….not 6 or 7

[morestealsthanscoresParticipant]

 I’ve never heard it raised before, but why oh why wouldn’t you do a South American division instead? Sure, you don’t have the same levels of money available, but you get to keep everything in the same set of time zones,you tap into some up-and-coming economies, you engage spanish speaking fans which benefits the US product, and you’re working in some basketball-crazy environments. Imagine 2 teams in Brazil, 2 in Argentina and 1 in Mexico – how achievable would that be?

[ChicagoCaseyParticipant]

 Outstanding question. The NBA is a money brand. The European market is far greater in expanding the game and making much more money than going to down south. Also, the fan base overseas is greater than South American fans. Also, there’s a language barrier you will have to deal with, in the western european cities that they will be located in they will all know english and it won’t be a huge culural change. 

[morestealsthanscoresParticipant]

 Plus, the euroleague is far, far stronger than the south american equivalent – meaning there’s far less competition 

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 Call me old-school but last I checked the NBA was the " National" Basketball Association. If the NBA were to expand into Western Europe who’s to say it would stop there. Eventually, the league would have teams all over the globe. It would be virtually impossible to play a balanced schedule with all the travel and rosters would be extremely unbalanced as well.

 I understand that basketball has become a global game and there is talent all over the world, but I’m not sure the NBA needs to completely monopolize the basketball landscape of the entire world. There are long-standing leagues throughout Europe and the rest of the world. What happens to those leagues when the NBA starts to expand to those countries?

The most talented players from around the world will almost always find their way to the NBA anyway. There is no need to expand into other countries to lure talent here. Eventually I’m sure the league will expand but there are plenty of markets within the U.S. that would be better possibilities imo. There is no way the league should put a team in Europe before they put one in Seattle.

 

[ChicagoCaseyParticipant]

 This is a money game. The NBA pretty much maxed out in the US in terms of expanding the game. I agree that a city like Seattle should get a team, but they cannot just have one city to make it work, it will have to have muliple. Seattle is a great market, but that market is nothing like London, Paris, Madrid, etc…… 

I’m not going that far that the NBA would keep expanding if they move to Western Europe. I say that because the distance from London and New York, I believe, is the same distance from New York and Los Angeles. So, travel wouldn’t be a huge problem. And all the cities that I’ve mention know how to speak english, you can’t expand to Eastern Europe, China, Mexico, South America, and others and have that. 

It’s not about getting more talent. It’s about making the most money it can and appeal to other fan bases. European fans are largely known to have great fans. There’s no better markets that’s in the US that’s better than one in the places in which the teams will be located.

This is not about what’s right and what’s wrong. Yes, it would be nice to expand in the US in cities like Seattle, Kansas City, and Louisville, but Adam Silver is trying to maximized the potential of the NBA. Getting teams in those cities in the US is small compared to the ones in West Europe.Adam Silver is always one up on other leagues, and having a division overseas is a big move marketing and getting money. Adam Silver want the NBA to compete with Soccer, not the NFL. Making the NBA more global is the better move.

 

 

 

[StephGoneStephParticipant]

Let’s not forget that what is now the NBA started out as the BAA, the Basketball Association of America. 

I think one point that I don’t think anyone has brought up is the dilution of the talent level. Currently there’s 30 teams in the NBA, of which maybe 5-6 can maybe be considered a contender. If we add more teams (which presumeably expanding geographically would entail) how many teams are going to look like the 6ers?

 

People with more knowledge of other sports- are there any succesful leagues that span multiple continents?

 

 

 

 

[HitsterParticipant]

As you probably known I’m English and the expansion of a major US Sports Franchise to Europe has been discussed a lot. Parts of USA is nearer to parts of Europe than other places in the USA but for West Coast teams it would be a hell of a haul.

London is often favoured for a team possibly due to marketing and travel purposes – common language is a big marketing pull and London to US is shorter than other European countries to the US. Dublin would be nearer but would not have the potential catchment area that London has and players might enjoy the Irish hospitality too much.

For an 82 game NBA season, I just don’t see it working. A 16 game NFL season is much more workable especially with that having bye weeks, the Euro team possibly playing games home and away in 2 game chunks. If a Euro Team ever did make the play offs, there would be the issue of huge games being played abroad and TV advertising revenue being lost.

Logically if the NBA did expand we have Seattle waiting to take a team and they might give Canada a go again if a 2nd US Expansion couldn’t be found.

[ChicagoCaseyParticipant]

 To answer a few questions….

1. A west coast team would not go directly to London, Paris, etc…. It would be your typically Eastern Conference tour, in which you go to Boston, New York, Philadelphia, and some other cities in the east coast.
2. The Playoffs don’t have any back to backs or anything like that. I adressed the treveling issue and the NBA had to deal with that. I would believe the NBA would either start the season earlier, cut the preseason a week or two weeks. That would have them have two days off.
3. I’m talking about a division, not just one team, a division can’t work in the NFL because Mondays through Tuesdays matter to the NFL and they can’t have by weeks every time they play in Europe.
4. Disagree with your logic. The NBA having more and more games overseas each year and building more and more NBA related teams in Western Europe. You have to think like Adam Silver with this one, which one will make the bigger splash and have the best oppotunity to expand the league and maximized the amount of money the league can make. Logic says Euro>Seattle/Canada. Plus, all those places I’ve name have NBA ready arenas, whereas, Seattle does not.

 

[ChicagoCaseyParticipant]

 I’ve got a lot of negative reviews on this thread, but I stated nothing but facts. It’s pretty odd. You may disagree with the idea of the NBA going overseas, but the reason why you don’t think it would happen is wrong and I’ve answered it.

1. "The travel to Boston to one of those cities will be two far" – The travel distance from London to Boston is basically the same as Miami going to Portland for a game and Los Angeles going to New York. That would not be a problem as one person trying to point out.
2. "What about the playoffs?" (This is a opinion) I believe the NBA will do away with conference, so it would not be a problem.
3. "What about the schedule when they come back?" This probably been the dumbest question because the NBA LITERALLY HAD GAMES OVERSEAS BEFORE AND TEAMS HAD TO COME BACK. And they schedule a game overseas this year in which they ALSO ANSWERED THAT QUESTION. On January 12, 2017, the Pacers go agaist the Nuggets in London. After the game the Pacers have 4 days off.

Most of the statements made are pretty idiotic, it’s OKAY that you may not want to see a euro division, but make reasonable suggestions on why it shouldn’t happen. This thread was all hypothetical, but if we go by simple logic, the NBA will go the overseas route before going to the US/Canada route. In the overseas route they already have NBA ready arenas/facilities vs. places like Seattle does not, they will offer to make way more money from the euro teams than they would over here, and they will expand the NBA brand by going overseas vs staying here. Logic and facts suggest that. You may hate the idea, but FACTS are on the European side.

[XYRYXParticipant]

interesting read overall but I’m not a fan of an expansion one or the other way. Personally I think with 30 teams the league is more than big enough and the devisions have already been regrouped a couple of years ago. There could be more balance in the league and I don’t see why more teams would help the league becoming better overall. 

The travel is just one aspect for me while an overseas team, let alone a decision won’t work. Money, especially TV money will be a problem and while Europeans for sure will enjoy games at a local time in London for example, you still have the problem that every other game in the us is difficult to follow life which sucks a lot for us. I would like to talk about another aspect I’ve never seen mentioned when European expansions have been discussed. In Europe, and basically the rest of the world athletes can chose where they want to play and since the Bosman lawsuit like 20 years ago, players (football/soccer players) and transfer fees exploded when Players with existing contracts have been sold to other clubs. One of the center pieces about all of this is that players can chose where they want to be and I’m not sure if drafting for example will work for players in Europe at all. I don’t know if it’s legal or different if the club is in the US or in Germany for example according to European right. I’m not sure if you are forced to play somewhere, which the draft basically is all about, is working with European right. Maybe I’m totally off with this but I’m almost sure there are a lot of legal difficulties to overcome if we talk about intercontinental leagues.  

[HitsterParticipant]

 I’m going to throw another point out there. Having a couple of games overseas will always draw in a lot of crowds and top European cities have US Ex-Pats or holiday makers who may want to take in a game too. But 2 or 3 games is a huge difference to 41 and so we have the issue of selling tickets week in/week out.

If a team was based in London the 20k capacity O2 Arena would be the logical venue but November and December are hugely busy for concerts there and so to fit in NBA games would be difficult. Wembley Arena could be used but that only holds 12k and the NBA would probably want a bigger venue. A purpose built arena with an NBA team as an anchor tennant would be a possibility but London would not have the realistic demand for another large sporting/concert arena.

 

[markfitz14Participant]

Be nice to see the D League get more attention and built up better. Give the team that wins the championship a fat cash prize would surely make it more interesting 

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