[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

For those who do not know:

Naturalization: the acquisition of citizenship or nationality by someone who was not a citizen or national of the country when he or she was born.

I know that it has been talked about on here, but I am interested to know people’s stance as far as it pertains to FIBA competition. Many countries have been involved in this for years, Russia being a prime example. JR Holden was given a citizenship decree by Vladmir Putin in 2003, after having played in Russia for one year with CSKA Moscow. Don’t know who Holden is? Well, he was on the Euroleague All-Decade Team for 2001-10, and also scored the game winning basket in the 2007 EuroBasket the Russian squad won. He recently retired, but JR was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

With JR’s retirement, Russia is now without a naturalized player on their national team roster. But, as most of us probably know, many other teams have naturalized players who could play potentially large roles. Chris Kaman on Germany and Serge Ibaka for Spain come to mind, with Spain also having Nikola Mirotic destroying the U-20 Euro’s as well. Chris is from Grand Rapids, Michigan, and it was well known that he required German citizenship in 2008, to play on the German Olympic team. His great-grandparents were German, hence his ability to maintain citizenship. Serge and Nikola were born in Congo and Montenegro respectively, and both played in Spain for the past few years. Each was granted citizenship roughly a month before being set to play in basketball tournaments.

Japan had JR Sakuragi (formerly UCLA forward JR Henderson), the Phillipines has Marcus Douthit (former Providence player and NBA Draft pick born in Syracuse, New York), Macedonia has Darius Vasington (formerly Darius Washington Jr.) and Qatar apparently had almost everyone on their team born outside of the country (including, of course, Tanguy "I’m 22" Ngombo). Canada has been trying to get Matt Bonner, who while beloved in the city of Toronto and married to a Canadian, did after all just spend two seasons on the Raptors. FIBA states that a team is only allowed one naturalized citizen on a team at a time, so it is not as if teams could just stock up with players born outside the country (though, in Qatar, I guess that is what was happening). Still, is it not kind of a shady practice to hand over citizenship to benefit a basketball team? As much as I would like to believe these guys would be accepted nationals of the country for other reasons, it seems that building a stronger team is the usual reason these guys fast track the legal process.

Now, with the US, naturalization has happened with basketball players. Hakeem Olajuwon (Nigeria), Tim Duncan (Virgin Islands), Carlos Boozer (Germany) and even to a lesser extent Kyrie Irving (Australia, though thus far he has only played in the Hoop Summit for Team USA while the others listed were all gold medal Olympians) all played for Team USA while being born outside of the country. However, I do believe that all of these players went through the legal procedures to obtain citizenship. With many of these other countries, well, that does not appear to be the case.

What I would like to know is, what are your opinions on FIBA’s naturalization rules? Do you think they should be stricter in accordance to determining a players validity as a citizen? Or, do you think the opposite and that more than one naturalized player should be able to play on a team? Personally, I am kind of torn. Ibaka and Mirotic, in particular, are two players who would undoubtedly become marquee players on their born countries national team. It is a wonder to me why Africa does not produce more solid national teams, and it seems like Serge could lead a major sleeper in Congo. Meanwhile, with Mirotic, his Montenegrin squad was not at all that bad. Spain more than likely would have still been the better team, but give Montenegro the best player in the tournament, things could have been radically different.

While Mirotic starred on the U-20 side of things for Spain, if he joined the National Team, he, like Ibaka, would become a role player. So, he and Serge would be giving up opportunities to be star players on "their" team, to combine with a group of better players to try to win at any cost over great competition. Is that not the same thing a lot of people were upset at LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh for doing? Sure, these guys never held a "Decision" to announce they would be rolling with the as of late beastly Spanish National Team, but I think there are definite similarities. Nonetheless, these guys do have the right to play for whomever they would like (much like the Heat trio), and it does not guarantee victory. Competition is fierce, and that is not only including the US, but Greece, Turkey, Lithuania, Argentina, France, Germany, Russia and Serbia. But, would it not be cool to see these guys try to lead their teams, even a player like Ibaka, who is widely considered a complimentary player? Well, I kind of think it would be.

So, my belief on this whole debate is that I believe that things are fine the way they are, I suppose. Their is probably very little FIBA can do as far as questioning the validity of where a person is born. You may have some cases where a player is unquestionably of a countries descent, but at the same time born somewhere else (Enes Kanter for Turkey for instance, who was born in Switzerland). But, I think that allowing one player who is naturalized at least means that teams are not given the ability to completely abuse the system. The US has indeed used this policy to add naturalized players to their team, and so I think it is fair that other countries should be given the same opportunity as the dominant power in International Basketball competition. Yes, it would be quite interesting to see a Spanish team fill out its roster with multiple naturalized players to try and give the US even more of a run for there money, but I honestly hope this may lead one to consider playing for their country of origin. Afterall, parity is what a great deal of people want, and having a guy like Mirotic playing for Montenegro may indeed boost them to being at a much higher level. Well, quite interested in your thoughts on the matter, hope sharing mine did not take up too much of your time. Things have been slow lately, and thought this might be a good way to spark some activity, as well as an interesting debating topic.

[surveParticipant]

lol, man, you wrote a good one.  I am saying that because its so much gray area in there and it really comes down to personal choice on the athlete’s side.  I am trying to follow, but doesnt Patriotism play a part as well as heritage?  I mean if an athlete is a citizen of the U.S. he will want to represent the U.S., naturally because the U.S. is still usually the teams that all eyes are on.  There are a few reasons a player would not want to play for a secondary team which they have the option to do so.  Such as practice competition level, training facilities, etc…but mainly visibility or better yet…acclaim.

I may be way off and jumping around what your question was, but for competition sake, allow only one naturalized athlete….but what if there are more good eligible athletes that cant/wont make a cut on the team that they have primary citizenship?  I mean, I guess I dont know enough about how international rules work.  You can help me there.  I remember Andre Berto (boxer) being kicked off the US squad for committing a flagrant foul during the Olympic trials.  He subsequently was granted citizenship to Haiti and competed for them in the 2004 Olympics.  Berto was born and raised in Florida, though his parents are Haitian imigrants.  Naturally, the preference was for him to represent the US, but why was Haiti an afterthought in the first place?  Man, there are many boxers that could gain citizenship to Haiti….MANY.  They would have a good international team if that were the case.  Likewise is the case for ballers.  You can probably easily find 1/3 of NBA players that you could grant citizenship to, probably more…if you are going back to great grandparents and such…lol. 

Again, sorry if my post was more of an opinion than an answer but I would like to see things more leveled internationally, wherever balance can be levied or levelled, I am all for.  The same as I am all for NBA stars being in smaller markets.   I respect LBJ’s decision, but I was not in agreement with teaming up with 2 established stars, one of which was a top 5 player.  I wouldve much rather preferred him going to the Clips with 2 future greats like Griffin and Gordon.  I dont want to see this happen in international play either, because just as the same way LBJ couldve brought even more recognition to the young stars of the Clips, the same can be said of some stars playing along side some relatively unknown but talented international players.  So again, my answer is, I err on the side of balance, however it can be maintained or upheld.

[surveParticipant]

lol, man, you wrote a good one.  I am saying that because its so much gray area in there and it really comes down to personal choice on the athlete’s side.  I am trying to follow, but doesnt Patriotism play a part as well as heritage?  I mean if an athlete is a citizen of the U.S. he will want to represent the U.S., naturally because the U.S. is still usually the teams that all eyes are on.  There are a few reasons a player would not want to play for a secondary team which they have the option to do so.  Such as practice competition level, training facilities, etc…but mainly visibility or better yet…acclaim.

I may be way off and jumping around what your question was, but for competition sake, allow only one naturalized athlete….but what if there are more good eligible athletes that cant/wont make a cut on the team that they have primary citizenship?  I mean, I guess I dont know enough about how international rules work.  You can help me there.  I remember Andre Berto (boxer) being kicked off the US squad for committing a flagrant foul during the Olympic trials.  He subsequently was granted citizenship to Haiti and competed for them in the 2004 Olympics.  Berto was born and raised in Florida, though his parents are Haitian imigrants.  Naturally, the preference was for him to represent the US, but why was Haiti an afterthought in the first place?  Man, there are many boxers that could gain citizenship to Haiti….MANY.  They would have a good international team if that were the case.  Likewise is the case for ballers.  You can probably easily find 1/3 of NBA players that you could grant citizenship to, probably more…if you are going back to great grandparents and such…lol. 

Again, sorry if my post was more of an opinion than an answer but I would like to see things more leveled internationally, wherever balance can be levied or levelled, I am all for.  The same as I am all for NBA stars being in smaller markets.   I respect LBJ’s decision, but I was not in agreement with teaming up with 2 established stars, one of which was a top 5 player.  I wouldve much rather preferred him going to the Clips with 2 future greats like Griffin and Gordon.  I dont want to see this happen in international play either, because just as the same way LBJ couldve brought even more recognition to the young stars of the Clips, the same can be said of some stars playing along side some relatively unknown but talented international players.  So again, my answer is, I err on the side of balance, however it can be maintained or upheld.

[surveParticipant]

lol, man, you wrote a good one.  I am saying that because its so much gray area in there and it really comes down to personal choice on the athlete’s side.  I am trying to follow, but doesnt Patriotism play a part as well as heritage?  I mean if an athlete is a citizen of the U.S. he will want to represent the U.S., naturally because the U.S. is still usually the teams that all eyes are on.  There are a few reasons a player would not want to play for a secondary team which they have the option to do so.  Such as practice competition level, training facilities, etc…but mainly visibility or better yet…acclaim.

I may be way off and jumping around what your question was, but for competition sake, allow only one naturalized athlete….but what if there are more good eligible athletes that cant/wont make a cut on the team that they have primary citizenship?  I mean, I guess I dont know enough about how international rules work.  You can help me there.  I remember Andre Berto (boxer) being kicked off the US squad for committing a flagrant foul during the Olympic trials.  He subsequently was granted citizenship to Haiti and competed for them in the 2004 Olympics.  Berto was born and raised in Florida, though his parents are Haitian imigrants.  Naturally, the preference was for him to represent the US, but why was Haiti an afterthought in the first place?  Man, there are many boxers that could gain citizenship to Haiti….MANY.  They would have a good international team if that were the case.  Likewise is the case for ballers.  You can probably easily find 1/3 of NBA players that you could grant citizenship to, probably more…if you are going back to great grandparents and such…lol. 

Again, sorry if my post was more of an opinion than an answer but I would like to see things more leveled internationally, wherever balance can be levied or levelled, I am all for.  The same as I am all for NBA stars being in smaller markets.   I respect LBJ’s decision, but I was not in agreement with teaming up with 2 established stars, one of which was a top 5 player.  I wouldve much rather preferred him going to the Clips with 2 future greats like Griffin and Gordon.  I dont want to see this happen in international play either, because just as the same way LBJ couldve brought even more recognition to the young stars of the Clips, the same can be said of some stars playing along side some relatively unknown but talented international players.  So again, my answer is, I err on the side of balance, however it can be maintained or upheld.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Though, while I feel balance is well and good (though, I am guessing anywhere LeBron went people would have been pissed off at him trying to find greener pastures, even in the Clippers scenario), this is more about representing your country. I guess Ibaka and Mirotic proudly represent Spain, but they both have no ties to the country outside of basketball (at least that is what I am lead to believe). It is difficult to say that they should be barred from playing if they are indeed considered naturalized citizens of said country, but it appears that the validity of their citizenship could be questioned, as far as them going through the proper channels.

With the boxing story, I think that his having been born in America was clearly the reason he wanted to represent the country. May have been different if Haiti had the same amenities and facilities (though I am guessing that is not the case), but I do not see that happening. His being kicked off the team seems to be a logical explanation as to why he would search for an alternative, and his Haitian roots seem to give him proper grounds to do so. Still, I think in cases of Chris Kaman and the whole "great grandparents" scenario, I think that being regulated is fine by me.

To me, wanting to represent a country does mean one should feel pride and ties to that country. For a team like Spain, who has done incredibly well without naturalizing players, I am not sure this would be done completely out of creating fair play and equality. I do not know either Mirotic and Ibaka, but I am guessing they feel stronger ties to where they were born (and raised). I can see where one would come from with the whole "fairness" argument, but is it fair to give someone citizenship just to help out your team? Personally, I think that FIBA is indeed being more than fair to countries who pretty much give players citizenship in a manner that is not necessarily up to the normal process one would obtain citizenship in your country, especially without having any real bloodlines to that country in the cases of some.

If one is completely willing to emerse themselves in a culture, than to me that is grounds for it being cool for them to be a naturalized member of a National Team and maybe not take up the "one player per team" slot. JR Sakuragi, for example, not only played in Japan for a number of years, but completely emersed himself as being Japanese, last name change and all. However, if someone is just joining a team for either the chance to play, that just seems kind of shady. Chris Kaman obviously just wanted to play in the Olympics, and would have had slim chances of doing so for the US. Kyle Wiltjer is a dual citizen, and while he was born in Portland, OR, his dad is of Canadian descent and I believe he went through the proper channels to maintain citizenship to Canada. I do not know if this means he would count as a naturalized player under FIBA guidelines, but, I feel that you more than likely should play for the country you most identify with. I think that if FIBA decided to start granting teams the ability to go crazy on adding naturalized players to their roster, it would more than likely lead to things being relatively unfair. Not necessarily to the US, but for a great number of other countries fighting for EuroBasket championships and spots in the rankings. So, I am not exactly with you on the whole "for the sake of fairness" deal, and while I would like it to be about pride in one’s country, I think that is a difficult thing for one to measure.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Though, while I feel balance is well and good (though, I am guessing anywhere LeBron went people would have been pissed off at him trying to find greener pastures, even in the Clippers scenario), this is more about representing your country. I guess Ibaka and Mirotic proudly represent Spain, but they both have no ties to the country outside of basketball (at least that is what I am lead to believe). It is difficult to say that they should be barred from playing if they are indeed considered naturalized citizens of said country, but it appears that the validity of their citizenship could be questioned, as far as them going through the proper channels.

With the boxing story, I think that his having been born in America was clearly the reason he wanted to represent the country. May have been different if Haiti had the same amenities and facilities (though I am guessing that is not the case), but I do not see that happening. His being kicked off the team seems to be a logical explanation as to why he would search for an alternative, and his Haitian roots seem to give him proper grounds to do so. Still, I think in cases of Chris Kaman and the whole "great grandparents" scenario, I think that being regulated is fine by me.

To me, wanting to represent a country does mean one should feel pride and ties to that country. For a team like Spain, who has done incredibly well without naturalizing players, I am not sure this would be done completely out of creating fair play and equality. I do not know either Mirotic and Ibaka, but I am guessing they feel stronger ties to where they were born (and raised). I can see where one would come from with the whole "fairness" argument, but is it fair to give someone citizenship just to help out your team? Personally, I think that FIBA is indeed being more than fair to countries who pretty much give players citizenship in a manner that is not necessarily up to the normal process one would obtain citizenship in your country, especially without having any real bloodlines to that country in the cases of some.

If one is completely willing to emerse themselves in a culture, than to me that is grounds for it being cool for them to be a naturalized member of a National Team and maybe not take up the "one player per team" slot. JR Sakuragi, for example, not only played in Japan for a number of years, but completely emersed himself as being Japanese, last name change and all. However, if someone is just joining a team for either the chance to play, that just seems kind of shady. Chris Kaman obviously just wanted to play in the Olympics, and would have had slim chances of doing so for the US. Kyle Wiltjer is a dual citizen, and while he was born in Portland, OR, his dad is of Canadian descent and I believe he went through the proper channels to maintain citizenship to Canada. I do not know if this means he would count as a naturalized player under FIBA guidelines, but, I feel that you more than likely should play for the country you most identify with. I think that if FIBA decided to start granting teams the ability to go crazy on adding naturalized players to their roster, it would more than likely lead to things being relatively unfair. Not necessarily to the US, but for a great number of other countries fighting for EuroBasket championships and spots in the rankings. So, I am not exactly with you on the whole "for the sake of fairness" deal, and while I would like it to be about pride in one’s country, I think that is a difficult thing for one to measure.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Though, while I feel balance is well and good (though, I am guessing anywhere LeBron went people would have been pissed off at him trying to find greener pastures, even in the Clippers scenario), this is more about representing your country. I guess Ibaka and Mirotic proudly represent Spain, but they both have no ties to the country outside of basketball (at least that is what I am lead to believe). It is difficult to say that they should be barred from playing if they are indeed considered naturalized citizens of said country, but it appears that the validity of their citizenship could be questioned, as far as them going through the proper channels.

With the boxing story, I think that his having been born in America was clearly the reason he wanted to represent the country. May have been different if Haiti had the same amenities and facilities (though I am guessing that is not the case), but I do not see that happening. His being kicked off the team seems to be a logical explanation as to why he would search for an alternative, and his Haitian roots seem to give him proper grounds to do so. Still, I think in cases of Chris Kaman and the whole "great grandparents" scenario, I think that being regulated is fine by me.

To me, wanting to represent a country does mean one should feel pride and ties to that country. For a team like Spain, who has done incredibly well without naturalizing players, I am not sure this would be done completely out of creating fair play and equality. I do not know either Mirotic and Ibaka, but I am guessing they feel stronger ties to where they were born (and raised). I can see where one would come from with the whole "fairness" argument, but is it fair to give someone citizenship just to help out your team? Personally, I think that FIBA is indeed being more than fair to countries who pretty much give players citizenship in a manner that is not necessarily up to the normal process one would obtain citizenship in your country, especially without having any real bloodlines to that country in the cases of some.

If one is completely willing to emerse themselves in a culture, than to me that is grounds for it being cool for them to be a naturalized member of a National Team and maybe not take up the "one player per team" slot. JR Sakuragi, for example, not only played in Japan for a number of years, but completely emersed himself as being Japanese, last name change and all. However, if someone is just joining a team for either the chance to play, that just seems kind of shady. Chris Kaman obviously just wanted to play in the Olympics, and would have had slim chances of doing so for the US. Kyle Wiltjer is a dual citizen, and while he was born in Portland, OR, his dad is of Canadian descent and I believe he went through the proper channels to maintain citizenship to Canada. I do not know if this means he would count as a naturalized player under FIBA guidelines, but, I feel that you more than likely should play for the country you most identify with. I think that if FIBA decided to start granting teams the ability to go crazy on adding naturalized players to their roster, it would more than likely lead to things being relatively unfair. Not necessarily to the US, but for a great number of other countries fighting for EuroBasket championships and spots in the rankings. So, I am not exactly with you on the whole "for the sake of fairness" deal, and while I would like it to be about pride in one’s country, I think that is a difficult thing for one to measure.

[WizardofOzParticipant]

Wrong thread

[WizardofOzParticipant]

Wrong thread

[WizardofOzParticipant]

Wrong thread

[surveParticipant]

Berto is extremely proud of his Haitian roots.  He had family there that suffered the earthquake.  He went over there and helped out.  He is absolutely proud to be an American as well.  I would say he could be equally as proud.  Again though, when it comes to competition internationally, being associated with a great team/country such as the U.S. does a lot for ones popularity.   His popularity as a professional comes from him coming up through the amateur ranks, being on the U.S.  teams, etc…So to piggyback off what you were saying, I mean he was born and raised here so it is natural for him to want to play for the U.S.  Now…had he not been disqualified (I think it was in the finals) but lost outright, I think he would still have the option of applying for Haitian citizenship and representing them.  Which brings up a question for you…what is the criteria for gaining citizenship?

Like I said, the criteria seems kind of relaxed….if you can go back and and pick great grandparents and such as your claim to citizenship.  It seems as I remember the story going as Kaman wasnt aware that he could play on the German team until Dirk encouraged him to do so.

"I can see where one would come from with the whole "fairness" argument, but is it fair to give someone citizenship just to help out your team?"

Well, thats where the criteria comes in.  I think if a person is born in a particular country or has lived in a country and had citizenship or their parents had citizenship….I am fine with those players being naturalized.  Beyond that, it becomes more political I think.

"Chris Kaman obviously just wanted to play in the Olympics, and would have had slim chances of doing so for the US."

Now see, thats what I am talking about.  I dont have a problem with Kaman playing if the criteria is meaningful…if we start digging, there are a lot of players that can be naturalized.   Let me say, if the criteria is strict enough, like the example I listed above, then I dont have issues with more than one naturalized player per team.

Was Wiltjer’s dad a Canadian citizen?  When I say "fairness" I am speaking of the criteria as well.  Berto definitely should have been allowed citizenship to Haiti because his parents moved from there and his bloodlines are still there.   If Wiltjer’s dad is of Canadian heritage but wasnt a citizen, thats where the area is more gray to me, one in which I would set the criteria in opposition to that situation.

[surveParticipant]

Berto is extremely proud of his Haitian roots.  He had family there that suffered the earthquake.  He went over there and helped out.  He is absolutely proud to be an American as well.  I would say he could be equally as proud.  Again though, when it comes to competition internationally, being associated with a great team/country such as the U.S. does a lot for ones popularity.   His popularity as a professional comes from him coming up through the amateur ranks, being on the U.S.  teams, etc…So to piggyback off what you were saying, I mean he was born and raised here so it is natural for him to want to play for the U.S.  Now…had he not been disqualified (I think it was in the finals) but lost outright, I think he would still have the option of applying for Haitian citizenship and representing them.  Which brings up a question for you…what is the criteria for gaining citizenship?

Like I said, the criteria seems kind of relaxed….if you can go back and and pick great grandparents and such as your claim to citizenship.  It seems as I remember the story going as Kaman wasnt aware that he could play on the German team until Dirk encouraged him to do so.

"I can see where one would come from with the whole "fairness" argument, but is it fair to give someone citizenship just to help out your team?"

Well, thats where the criteria comes in.  I think if a person is born in a particular country or has lived in a country and had citizenship or their parents had citizenship….I am fine with those players being naturalized.  Beyond that, it becomes more political I think.

"Chris Kaman obviously just wanted to play in the Olympics, and would have had slim chances of doing so for the US."

Now see, thats what I am talking about.  I dont have a problem with Kaman playing if the criteria is meaningful…if we start digging, there are a lot of players that can be naturalized.   Let me say, if the criteria is strict enough, like the example I listed above, then I dont have issues with more than one naturalized player per team.

Was Wiltjer’s dad a Canadian citizen?  When I say "fairness" I am speaking of the criteria as well.  Berto definitely should have been allowed citizenship to Haiti because his parents moved from there and his bloodlines are still there.   If Wiltjer’s dad is of Canadian heritage but wasnt a citizen, thats where the area is more gray to me, one in which I would set the criteria in opposition to that situation.

[surveParticipant]

Berto is extremely proud of his Haitian roots.  He had family there that suffered the earthquake.  He went over there and helped out.  He is absolutely proud to be an American as well.  I would say he could be equally as proud.  Again though, when it comes to competition internationally, being associated with a great team/country such as the U.S. does a lot for ones popularity.   His popularity as a professional comes from him coming up through the amateur ranks, being on the U.S.  teams, etc…So to piggyback off what you were saying, I mean he was born and raised here so it is natural for him to want to play for the U.S.  Now…had he not been disqualified (I think it was in the finals) but lost outright, I think he would still have the option of applying for Haitian citizenship and representing them.  Which brings up a question for you…what is the criteria for gaining citizenship?

Like I said, the criteria seems kind of relaxed….if you can go back and and pick great grandparents and such as your claim to citizenship.  It seems as I remember the story going as Kaman wasnt aware that he could play on the German team until Dirk encouraged him to do so.

"I can see where one would come from with the whole "fairness" argument, but is it fair to give someone citizenship just to help out your team?"

Well, thats where the criteria comes in.  I think if a person is born in a particular country or has lived in a country and had citizenship or their parents had citizenship….I am fine with those players being naturalized.  Beyond that, it becomes more political I think.

"Chris Kaman obviously just wanted to play in the Olympics, and would have had slim chances of doing so for the US."

Now see, thats what I am talking about.  I dont have a problem with Kaman playing if the criteria is meaningful…if we start digging, there are a lot of players that can be naturalized.   Let me say, if the criteria is strict enough, like the example I listed above, then I dont have issues with more than one naturalized player per team.

Was Wiltjer’s dad a Canadian citizen?  When I say "fairness" I am speaking of the criteria as well.  Berto definitely should have been allowed citizenship to Haiti because his parents moved from there and his bloodlines are still there.   If Wiltjer’s dad is of Canadian heritage but wasnt a citizen, thats where the area is more gray to me, one in which I would set the criteria in opposition to that situation.

[surveParticipant]

you know… this brings up some very interesting thoughts.  Carmelo could play for Puerto Rico if not for the FIBA rules prohibiting him from playing because he has already played for the U.S.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2010-12-22/puerto-rico-wants-carmelo-anthony-for-olympic-qualifying

Hell, Rick Fox couldve represented either Canada, the Bahamas, or the U.S.  and wouldve been legitimate in doing so for either in my eyes.

Shammond Williams, also a Tarheel represents the Republic of Georgia internationally all because he was able to secure a Georgian passport.   Talk about criteria!

"It’s also interesting to note that Williams acquired the Georgian citizenship because of his teammate in Orlando Magic Zaza Pachulia, so he could join (and help) the Georgian National Team. Despite his participation, Georgia couldn’t manage to qualify for the 2005 Eurobasket, despite seeing 20 points and 7.4 assists from Williams."

source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Shammond-Williams-4917/

 

 

[surveParticipant]

you know… this brings up some very interesting thoughts.  Carmelo could play for Puerto Rico if not for the FIBA rules prohibiting him from playing because he has already played for the U.S.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2010-12-22/puerto-rico-wants-carmelo-anthony-for-olympic-qualifying

Hell, Rick Fox couldve represented either Canada, the Bahamas, or the U.S.  and wouldve been legitimate in doing so for either in my eyes.

Shammond Williams, also a Tarheel represents the Republic of Georgia internationally all because he was able to secure a Georgian passport.   Talk about criteria!

"It’s also interesting to note that Williams acquired the Georgian citizenship because of his teammate in Orlando Magic Zaza Pachulia, so he could join (and help) the Georgian National Team. Despite his participation, Georgia couldn’t manage to qualify for the 2005 Eurobasket, despite seeing 20 points and 7.4 assists from Williams."

source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Shammond-Williams-4917/

 

 

[surveParticipant]

you know… this brings up some very interesting thoughts.  Carmelo could play for Puerto Rico if not for the FIBA rules prohibiting him from playing because he has already played for the U.S.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2010-12-22/puerto-rico-wants-carmelo-anthony-for-olympic-qualifying

Hell, Rick Fox couldve represented either Canada, the Bahamas, or the U.S.  and wouldve been legitimate in doing so for either in my eyes.

Shammond Williams, also a Tarheel represents the Republic of Georgia internationally all because he was able to secure a Georgian passport.   Talk about criteria!

"It’s also interesting to note that Williams acquired the Georgian citizenship because of his teammate in Orlando Magic Zaza Pachulia, so he could join (and help) the Georgian National Team. Despite his participation, Georgia couldn’t manage to qualify for the 2005 Eurobasket, despite seeing 20 points and 7.4 assists from Williams."

source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Shammond-Williams-4917/

 

 

[llperez]

i think it devalues how much i would stand behind my team if im a citizen of one of these countries picking up naturalized citizens for international play. I would want to see people who are legitmately from my country repping it even if it mean not being as succesful right awayl.

[llperez]

i think it devalues how much i would stand behind my team if im a citizen of one of these countries picking up naturalized citizens for international play. I would want to see people who are legitmately from my country repping it even if it mean not being as succesful right awayl.

[llperez]

i think it devalues how much i would stand behind my team if im a citizen of one of these countries picking up naturalized citizens for international play. I would want to see people who are legitmately from my country repping it even if it mean not being as succesful right awayl.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Born in Yukon, dude is most definitely Canadian. He played for Canada and even got the honor of being killed by the Dream Team. But, as far as Kaman goes, read this:

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/aug/13/sports/sp-olykaman13

Not saying that his father is right, but even he questions exactly how "German", Chris Kaman truly is. Also, never questioning Berto’s being proud of his Haitian roots, if that is what you were implying. I do believe I said that it was fine for Kyle to play on Team Canada, but I think there is a limit. I guess I feel that their is a different in being connected to Haiti as opposed to Canada, and history/culture does play a part. I was born and raised in Canada, and feel much more connected to the US. Guess I find it hard to believe one could think otherwise, though it could happen.

Even still, I think by the time it gets to a certain generation, you no longer have that prior connection. First generation, in the case of Berto and Wiltjer, does indeed lead you to see the connection. Kaman, on the other hand, seems to have had a pretty wide disconnect, as even his parents were born in the US. I agree, there are a number of players who could probably claim some kind of citizenship, but are they doing it for any reason other than playing on a better team (Ibaka, Mirotic) or playing for a team they might not otherwise make in the country they were born (Kaman, Wiltjer)? That was my main theme of what I was asking, glad you stated your opinion.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Born in Yukon, dude is most definitely Canadian. He played for Canada and even got the honor of being killed by the Dream Team. But, as far as Kaman goes, read this:

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/aug/13/sports/sp-olykaman13

Not saying that his father is right, but even he questions exactly how "German", Chris Kaman truly is. Also, never questioning Berto’s being proud of his Haitian roots, if that is what you were implying. I do believe I said that it was fine for Kyle to play on Team Canada, but I think there is a limit. I guess I feel that their is a different in being connected to Haiti as opposed to Canada, and history/culture does play a part. I was born and raised in Canada, and feel much more connected to the US. Guess I find it hard to believe one could think otherwise, though it could happen.

Even still, I think by the time it gets to a certain generation, you no longer have that prior connection. First generation, in the case of Berto and Wiltjer, does indeed lead you to see the connection. Kaman, on the other hand, seems to have had a pretty wide disconnect, as even his parents were born in the US. I agree, there are a number of players who could probably claim some kind of citizenship, but are they doing it for any reason other than playing on a better team (Ibaka, Mirotic) or playing for a team they might not otherwise make in the country they were born (Kaman, Wiltjer)? That was my main theme of what I was asking, glad you stated your opinion.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Born in Yukon, dude is most definitely Canadian. He played for Canada and even got the honor of being killed by the Dream Team. But, as far as Kaman goes, read this:

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/aug/13/sports/sp-olykaman13

Not saying that his father is right, but even he questions exactly how "German", Chris Kaman truly is. Also, never questioning Berto’s being proud of his Haitian roots, if that is what you were implying. I do believe I said that it was fine for Kyle to play on Team Canada, but I think there is a limit. I guess I feel that their is a different in being connected to Haiti as opposed to Canada, and history/culture does play a part. I was born and raised in Canada, and feel much more connected to the US. Guess I find it hard to believe one could think otherwise, though it could happen.

Even still, I think by the time it gets to a certain generation, you no longer have that prior connection. First generation, in the case of Berto and Wiltjer, does indeed lead you to see the connection. Kaman, on the other hand, seems to have had a pretty wide disconnect, as even his parents were born in the US. I agree, there are a number of players who could probably claim some kind of citizenship, but are they doing it for any reason other than playing on a better team (Ibaka, Mirotic) or playing for a team they might not otherwise make in the country they were born (Kaman, Wiltjer)? That was my main theme of what I was asking, glad you stated your opinion.

[frogmanParticipant]

Yeah I’ve always hated players doing what Kaman has done.  He probably doesn’t know the capital of Germany and in his interview he seems like he doesn’t really care about Germany and that he just wanted to play in the olympics.  FIBA should set a rule in stone one way or the other.  My preference would be for a player like Kyrie Irving, who was born in Australia but grew up in the USA, he would be able to choose which country he wants to represent, but apart from circumstances like that make in mandatory to play where you are born.  You should not need to get out the family tree just to see which countries you can play for at the olympics.

[frogmanParticipant]

Yeah I’ve always hated players doing what Kaman has done.  He probably doesn’t know the capital of Germany and in his interview he seems like he doesn’t really care about Germany and that he just wanted to play in the olympics.  FIBA should set a rule in stone one way or the other.  My preference would be for a player like Kyrie Irving, who was born in Australia but grew up in the USA, he would be able to choose which country he wants to represent, but apart from circumstances like that make in mandatory to play where you are born.  You should not need to get out the family tree just to see which countries you can play for at the olympics.

[frogmanParticipant]

Yeah I’ve always hated players doing what Kaman has done.  He probably doesn’t know the capital of Germany and in his interview he seems like he doesn’t really care about Germany and that he just wanted to play in the olympics.  FIBA should set a rule in stone one way or the other.  My preference would be for a player like Kyrie Irving, who was born in Australia but grew up in the USA, he would be able to choose which country he wants to represent, but apart from circumstances like that make in mandatory to play where you are born.  You should not need to get out the family tree just to see which countries you can play for at the olympics.

[surveParticipant]

no, I wasnt implying that by saying Berto is proud of his heritage…what I was trying to get across was, Berto is probably equally as proud of his Haitian heritage, fortunately, he is a U.S. citizen and that was the natural choice.  when he couldnt play for the US on the Olympic team, he had another option and it was legitmate.  What I do think though is had Berto grown up in Haiti but say he was a citizen of the U.S. for 2 years for example, I think he still wouldve went for the U.S. team because of how beneficial it could be for his professional career from a marketability standpoint.  Which brings up another point…in boxing, you are not considered the best unless you come to the states…but fighters outside the US make more money in their native or adopted lands, the UK and Canada in particular.   Thats the problem, lol…everyone wants to play for certain teams, like USA for instance because of the prestige and visibility, but everyone cant make it….so hence we go with the naturalization.

I dont think Kaman’s case is legitimate but it does give him a chance to showcase himself to the world and maybe bring more visibility to him as a player.  Shammond Williams is even worse and would be an Olympian if Georgia could qualify.

criteria should be:

• you can play for the country that you were born in
• you can play for the country that you are a resident of
• the country that your parents are native to (Berto’s case)

also, I think its going a tad far to call someone a traitor for wanting to play for another country, I do think it gives an athlete a chance to identify with their heritage and for the country to identify with them.  some of this stuff just goes too far, like Melo’s dad was Puerto Rican but I am not sure if he was ever a resident…and I am sure the Puerto Rican basketball commission could care less if he was.

[surveParticipant]

no, I wasnt implying that by saying Berto is proud of his heritage…what I was trying to get across was, Berto is probably equally as proud of his Haitian heritage, fortunately, he is a U.S. citizen and that was the natural choice.  when he couldnt play for the US on the Olympic team, he had another option and it was legitmate.  What I do think though is had Berto grown up in Haiti but say he was a citizen of the U.S. for 2 years for example, I think he still wouldve went for the U.S. team because of how beneficial it could be for his professional career from a marketability standpoint.  Which brings up another point…in boxing, you are not considered the best unless you come to the states…but fighters outside the US make more money in their native or adopted lands, the UK and Canada in particular.   Thats the problem, lol…everyone wants to play for certain teams, like USA for instance because of the prestige and visibility, but everyone cant make it….so hence we go with the naturalization.

I dont think Kaman’s case is legitimate but it does give him a chance to showcase himself to the world and maybe bring more visibility to him as a player.  Shammond Williams is even worse and would be an Olympian if Georgia could qualify.

criteria should be:

• you can play for the country that you were born in
• you can play for the country that you are a resident of
• the country that your parents are native to (Berto’s case)

also, I think its going a tad far to call someone a traitor for wanting to play for another country, I do think it gives an athlete a chance to identify with their heritage and for the country to identify with them.  some of this stuff just goes too far, like Melo’s dad was Puerto Rican but I am not sure if he was ever a resident…and I am sure the Puerto Rican basketball commission could care less if he was.

[surveParticipant]

no, I wasnt implying that by saying Berto is proud of his heritage…what I was trying to get across was, Berto is probably equally as proud of his Haitian heritage, fortunately, he is a U.S. citizen and that was the natural choice.  when he couldnt play for the US on the Olympic team, he had another option and it was legitmate.  What I do think though is had Berto grown up in Haiti but say he was a citizen of the U.S. for 2 years for example, I think he still wouldve went for the U.S. team because of how beneficial it could be for his professional career from a marketability standpoint.  Which brings up another point…in boxing, you are not considered the best unless you come to the states…but fighters outside the US make more money in their native or adopted lands, the UK and Canada in particular.   Thats the problem, lol…everyone wants to play for certain teams, like USA for instance because of the prestige and visibility, but everyone cant make it….so hence we go with the naturalization.

I dont think Kaman’s case is legitimate but it does give him a chance to showcase himself to the world and maybe bring more visibility to him as a player.  Shammond Williams is even worse and would be an Olympian if Georgia could qualify.

criteria should be:

• you can play for the country that you were born in
• you can play for the country that you are a resident of
• the country that your parents are native to (Berto’s case)

also, I think its going a tad far to call someone a traitor for wanting to play for another country, I do think it gives an athlete a chance to identify with their heritage and for the country to identify with them.  some of this stuff just goes too far, like Melo’s dad was Puerto Rican but I am not sure if he was ever a resident…and I am sure the Puerto Rican basketball commission could care less if he was.

[Author]

Posts