[thetruthParticipant]

now lately we been hearing if the nba should do a 2 year rule.where players should go to school for 2 years and declare. and now i see all the debating and stuff about it.but now im bout to break it down.you see in some kid cases they might be hype up alot during high school and flop in college see jrue holiday and demar. now just think if they didnt have that rule they have now. alot of players like them woulda got pick in the lottery and suck in the pros. and the teams that pick them woulda felt dumb . anyway what im trying to say is. i think the league should make a 2 year rule. instead of kids going to college and fucking up programs by cheating on test, and stuff. i think a 2 year rule would help alot. the players will be more season and humble. they would have to do well in school. what do you think.

[OrangeJuiceJonesParticipant]

http://www.nbadraft.net/node/11754

[QHaynes20]

looks…..like what I said.

[tli232]

I don’t believe that whether HS kids become lottery picks and suck really affects anything. I mean, the best players will be playing in the NBA regardless of where they’re drafted. If the kids HAVE to go to college, they’re tainting the schools’ academic integrity. I go to an Ivey league school, and personally do not appreciate how athletes can not only have lesser grades, but easier courses to graduate with my degree. I understand that the NBA is trying to make the draft process more predictable, in the name of fairness, but making kids stay at school isn’t the way to do it.

I mean, even if kids have to go to college for 2 years, there’s still disparity between different systems and conferences. I really don’t believe that seeing kids in college really helps bring certainty to the draft process. See examples: Shelden Williams, JJ Reddick, Adam Morrison, Ike Diogu, Sean May, etc. As you will surely realize, there are just as many flops for players who’ve played more than 2 years of college ball as there are HS flops.

all in all, the idea of the rule is ridiculous as it won’t solve too many problems other than making sure that the draftees are a little more mature and won’t do drugs and stuff.

Comments on my post?

[QHaynes20]

True, I agree with you there, I mean, I just think the NBA should have the baseball rule that way everyone is happy

[butidonthavemoney]

You know what you are talking about. You should post more often.

You are right in that another year of college has minimal effect on the draft status/NBA readiness of young prospects. Imagewise, is where the extra year of college really helps. It makes the NBA seem more professional and has a positive influence on basketball fans. Also it expands the appeal of the NCAA, helps prepare the prospects for the pressure of the NBA, etc, etc…

I think it would be better for basketball overall.

[sheltwon3Participant]

I dont see why you should make players go to college if they dont want to. If they can be drafted out of high school then let them be able. If they do choose college though they should have to stay 2 years.

[QHaynes20]

thats the baseball rule

[Ryan.Cook2Participant]

then no stars would go to college. It would be less fun to watch college ball. and the draft. Jrue Holliday would have been a top 5 pick out of high school.

[Ryan.Cook2Participant]

and b. j. mullens

[SpencerIsHawesome]

The level of play in basketball was down when kids were coming straight from HS. Let me break it down for you for those who will say it wasn’t.. even though it was painfully obvious.

1. Kid comes out of HS facing not much competition, always best on the court
2. Teams draft kid even though they don’t know how good he is against real competition
3. Kids not ready to play, but is forced into the line-up by owners who want to make money off of him
4. Kid sucks.

Of course there are exceptions like LeBron but in general kids going to play college basketball then going to the pro’s makes the overall game better. Kids going to college is a win-win-win for the kids, ncaa sports, and nba.

[HaakaanParticipant]

Forcing kids to go to college so the NCAA can make more money is bullshit in my opinion. They are not there to get a damn education. It pisses me off that kids can go die in a war but not be able to play a sport because of they’re age.

And for everyone saying that a large number of kids coming straight out of high school suck…YOU ARE DEAD WRONG. The amount of high school players who start for the all-star teams each year is way out of proportion to the numbers in the league!

Sure there are a number who never worked out or might have developed differently had they gone to school…but for every one of those there are a huge number of college players who never amounted to shit!

[llperez]

Kids are not being forced to go to college. They can go to the NBDL or overseas or anywhere else they like. The reality is they choose to go to college because it is the best way to improve their draft staock.

As for the NBA making them wait a year, the NBA is a billion dollar business just like any other major corporation. It is not the players “right” to play in the NBA but a privlidge. If the NBA wants to see these kids play one year at a higher level before they draft them and invest millions, then they have that right. So quit it with the ridiculous “if they can go to war” crap. I can’t go to a law firm without taking the bar exam and when they don’t hire me say, “while if I can go to war”? That is a stupid argument.

[llperez]

we’ve already been down this road. I love how you guys think that the colleges would be better off if it was 2 years instead of one becuase it would force the players into being real students instead of cheating and getting the program in trouble. WRONG, the players will be more likely to cheat becuase instead of dropping out after the basketball season their first year, they will need to stick around, and even more scandals will break out and be exposed. If a kid is gonna cheat for one year, what on earth makes you think he would clean up his act and become a scolar becuase he has to stay 2 seasons? They won’t, it will just mean more violations and colleges getting in trouble.

And that is just one of the many aspects to consider. The one year rule is the best way to do it for all parties involved, players, nba, and colleges all benefit from one year over 2 years, or straight outta highschool.

[llperez]

me and you are on the same page with this one iguodala. I mean, the nba isn’t trying to screw these kids over or anything, they are just looking out for their own best interest. And trying to evaluate highschool kids is tough. Having that one extra year where the kid can be evaluated against tougher competition allows for the GM’s to get a better feel for a kid before they invest millions into him. If after one year, the GM’s still can’t get it right, then it’s on them.

[Michael.S.Participant]

I agree with Hakkan

[JNixonParticipant]

You hit it right on the head LL…its a privilege to play in the NBA. That go to war thing is stupid. And its not like you hae to go to college. I agree with the system as is, if there can be good players straight out of HS, then they would be helped by spending time in a college system. No doubt. The numbers show alot of Nba all-stars that were prep to pro’s, but how would it hurt by spending time in college or if your not comfortable with college playing overseas or in the NBDL? It gives the game a more polished feel, instead of a bunch of raw high school guys.

[sheltwon3Participant]

The problem with one of yall arguments is that you can say the same for some players who went to college. My thing is maybe it would be easier for lazy and stupid Gm’s to pick players at the right spots but there has been 4 year players that never panned up either and they had less upside. Also Holiday and Mullens should not be written off now. If you look at the old NBA before the hype over everyone because of the internet. Rookies would not get many minutes they would learn behind vets. Steve Nash who is a two time MVP played behind Kidd and KJ for a while before he was traded and broke out in Dallas but he did show a few games his first and second year that he was talented. I think now people expect too much too soon. If Mullens has a good big man coach and actually works at it he can become a solid big and with his raw skills maybe a top big man. Also Holiday can already guard at a defensive level so once he learn the point guard spot which is the hardest to learn maybe in say 3 years at 23, he will be one of the top point guards. Lou Williams has played behind many players for years and now hopefully he can show that he is one of the elite guys with more time and more responsibilities because the raw talent is there.

[quincey hodges]

SpencerIsHawesome..you say it was worst for the game so i ask you to prove it..name all the players that went from highschool too the pros and got drafted.,..then name which ones made it in the nba and which ones ended up not being good enough to stay in and see which lit is bigger. remeber they dont have to be super stars just good enough to get new contracts and play. you always say the level of play was down but you never give examples of how it was down…and i bet during those years name the 5 or 10 worst players in the nba and see how many of them were hs players and ho wmany were those who went to college…also ll they arent litterally forced to go to college but lets be honest the nbdl is not a real choice..they get paid peanuts compared to the nba and if they happen play bad they would see a major drop in there draft status. they should be able to go straight pro out of highschool its that simple..there wasnt a problem with it before other then the ncaa losing out on its stars, thats why i do like the european option. and spencer its not all win win because alot of colleges would lose from these players going to college getting paid or some type of derrick rose scandel and leave a black eye on the college as well as them paying money back and possible sanctions

[SpencerIsHawesome]

quincey. you dont understand the point im trying to make. im not saying they didnt end up good, im saying they were forced into minutes and were not nba-ready skill wise and some of them physically wise wither. eventually many of them developed into good players, but the NBA is not supposed to be where players develop skills, which was the case for these players coming out of hs.

i cant really present facts that state this, it would take way too much research, and i dont really care that much about it. i think it was pretty obvious, though, if you watched basketball before a few seasons ago how un-polished and sloppy basketball was with a bunch of just graduated high schoolers running around.

[quincey hodges]

how isnt the nba a place where you develop youre skills?..most guys comming in who get drafted high are one and done and need time to adjust. very few come in in year one or 2 and make big impacts. i see just as many unpolished guys who went to college for 3 or four years as i see 1year or highschoolers. like i said name the ones who it took awhile to develop and ill name college guys who evither took longer or ended up out of the leauge quick. if it was pretty obvious then the facts would be pretty easy to come up with..like how i can say..joe forte,adam morrison sheldon williams,kandi man. im not sure where u get “the nba isnt where players are suppossed to develop skills” when thats exactly what just about every player does since the competition level is much higher then anywhere else

[SpencerIsHawesome]

There is a huge difference between needing time to adjust and developing your skills. Obviously you somewhat develop skills coming into the pro’s no matter what, but High Schoolers were using the NBA as a development stage, which the highest stage in professional basketball shouldn’t be for. You should come to the NBA ready to play professional basketball.

The college players you named are just busts. That has ZERO to do with this conversation. Never anywhere did I say college players are automatically good in the NBA.

And finally, There are no facts that I can just sit here and say off the top of my head. If you really did watch basketball a few years ago when coming in from HS was all the rage then you’d know how bad basketball was at the time. Either that or you just don’t know what good basketball is. There is no stat that I can just pull out to show bad basketball.

Lets just look at the last draft where HS’s can come out ’05

Martell Webster, Andrew Bynum, Gerald Green, CJ Miles, Monta Ellis, Andray Blatche, Louis Williams, Amir Johnson

How about ’04

Dwight Howard, Shaun Livingston, Sebastian Telfair, Robert Swift, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Dorrell Wright

After 3-4 years in the league, we should have an idea about what kind of players these guys will be. Most of them are still projects and still question marks, and all of them are rough around the edges.

Usually people say 5 years and you can judge a draft class… so lets look at the ’03 HS’ers.

LeBron James. He’s an exception he was obviously NBA ready.

Travis Outlaw, Ndudi Ebi, James Lang.

5 years later Outlaw is just starting to reach his potential.. And the other 2, not so much.

Every single guy on this list would have benefited from college excpet probably LeBron. Few of them are close to reaching their potential 3-4-5 years into the HIGHEST LEVEL OF PROFESSIONAL basketball. Watching guys come form HS to Pro’s is rough. They aren’t good and they take a long time before they actually get good. As I said, they are using NBA as a development league not as a professional league.

[quincey hodges]

ok..lets see..martel webster is projected to come back from injury and start..bynum is a future allstar..green just didnt pan out luiek peopel though..if he would have went to college he would have eventually showed to not have panned out also..you think him going to college would have changed that?..you get better trainers in the nba and more time to practice yet he still didnt developed like people hoped. cj miles is a pretty good player obviusly by how much the thunder were willing to pay to get him and how much the jazz matched to keep him monte ellis is a very good player williams blatche and johnson all contribute on the teams they play for. you saying how bad basketball was is youre opinion not a fact..i dont recall anyone else complaining nor ratings going way down during that time. so yes youre intitled to youre opinion as long as you dont try to pass it off as fact. some guys take longer to develop then others what does that mean just tell them dont come to the nba untill you have developed…you get to become the best by practicing and playing against the best night in and night out. if the gms and teams dont like theres a very easy solution…just dont draft them but yet each year players ar drafted who wont be able to contibute till years down the road..even before the hs thing teams did and continue to do that will euro players. most arent ready to contribute right away and need time to develop which they do..this years and next years draft has players who will take years to develop. just because YOU would like to see them develop in college for 2-3 years doesnt mean its the right thing to do. what do we do about the players who have spent 3-4 years in college and after 2 years in the nba still arent at there potenial?..add 2 more years of college so they can develop

[GoJOSH HUESTISParticipant]

yall both make points but im not sure what the hell spencer is talking about when he said the nba suffred when the hs came…the nba is where players develop as well as come in and do things right from the start..it always has been . the main thing is the end result when the players reach there potenial and so far the top players out of everyone who has reached there potenial have been mostly highschoolers. theres no real good arguement for why highschools shouldnt be allowed to come in..some tried to say mentally they arent ready and they will cause trouble yet the trouble makers are the college players. if a player is ready to come in and play then let them play..they dont have to come in and be stars or even start..they can be the 12th man on the bench and contribute when someone gets hurt and in the mean time develop. thats why teams have more then just 5-8 players on the team. it never was as big a deal as david stern made it seem because these highschoolers continued to get drafted. teams saw talent worked them out liked what they saw and drafted them over more established college players knowing they wouldnt be able to contribute right away..that in it selfs shows you that the leauge also drafts players to develope them.

[SpencerIsHawesome]

Just a question, how old are you two?

[quincey hodges]

im 30

[SpencerIsHawesome]

Alright, I wasn’t sure if you were one of these 13 year old kids who probably don’t even remember 3-4 years back.

I guess we can just agree to disagree. I’m of the opinion that bball was worst when a bunch of not ready 18 year olds were playing. As you said, it’s not a fact it’s my opinion.

Word.

[quincey hodges]

lol..naw grown man here. theres a bunch of not ready college guys there also…im just wondering why if this is such a big issue that no one says much about the euros who come over here to play at 18-19 to play in the nba

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