[Ghost01Participant]

 hoops-nation.com/nba-rumors-bulls-talking-carmelo-anthony-trade-knicks/

Bulls get: Melo, Felton, and Shumpert

Knicks get: Boozer, Hinrich, Butler, Snell, and a 1st.

First off, I’m a Bulls fan, so remember that…

I don’t think this deal makes much sense for the Knicks, beyond them just believing Melo is gone at the end of the year and it is time to get any kind of assets in return. I think either A. If the Bulls upgrade the Boozer piece to Taj Gibson, or B. Add more picks, it is a more realistic possibility. 

Butler is a nice young player, but he’s not terribly different than Shumpert. They Knicks would HAVE to amnesty Amare if they did this (not even sure if they still have their amnesty), because they cannot pay both he and Boozer next year. Like I said, it would need some major tinkering and the Bulls would have to sweeten the deal, but I think it would great for both organizations to find common ground on this trade. The Knicks suck with Melo, and its clear they need to rebuild. If they can get a couple young assets and some picks, that would be better than him walking at the end of the year which I think is their fear.

Melo is not a perfect player at all, but the Bulls are desperate for another "star" player, and are desperate for a true scorer on this team. The idea of a Rose/Shumpert/Melo/Taj/Noah starting 5 is relatively scary, even if it isn’t a championship level team. As a fan, I don’t really see a better alternative for them. They could go after Lance Stephenson this offseason (and have to overpay to lure him away from Indiana) or roll it over and hope that in 2015 they can sign Love or someone like that, but this is something right now that could improve the team.

This is probably just wishful thinking, but it would be a trade (in principle, not the exact trade mentioned) that I would support. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NardDog NationParticipant]

 I think the Knicks’ best option at this point is to move Melo, regardless of if he wants to stay or go. The fact of the matter is that they have too many holes to fill to expect to retool around him now or in the immediate future. Chicago is by far the best option to trade him to because they offer an interesting combination of expiring contracts, prospects and draft picks to entice the Knicks. On the flip side of things, Chicago would be much better served with Melo than the aforementioned since they can win now.

I think the deal should be this: Melo, Felton and Shumpert for Carlos Boozer, DJ Augustin (sign and trade), Jimmy Butler, the draft rights to Nikola Mirotic and both 1st draft picks in the 2014 draft. The Bulls get their man while ditching Boozer (thereby saving their amnesty for Rose if his injury problems become chronic). They also get the opportunity to be a contender in the East again this season. Meanwhile the Knicks get as close to market value as they are ever going to get for Melo.

[Scott42444Participant]

His extension was signed after the new CBA, whereas the amnesty applies to contracts that were prior to the current CBA.  So, I don’t think that the Bulls can use the amnesty provision on Rose.  I just don’t think the Bulls would give up any assets, especially 2 picks in the 2014 draft and Nikola Mirotic in addition to Butler.  Augustin is a good player, but I don’t think he will resign with Chicago (he has earned more money than the Bulls will probably offer) and Boozer is definitely gone in Chicago.  

So basically, if the Bulls can still get some assets for Dunleavy and Hinrich, they will probably send them away this year.  I don’t know how valid it is but I saw a Boozer to Phoenix rumor for Okafor and 1 of 4 picks for the Suns.  This would actually save the Bulls a little under $1 million (important considering the Bulls are close to the luxury tax STILL and there are some bonuses that COULD be paid out this year, like Taj Gibson making 1st or 2nd Team All-NBA Defense).  They would also get millions back in insurance money because Okafor’s contract was insured for nearly $6 million (I think).  The Suns have plenty of room under the cap for Boozer, they are NOT going to bring in 4-6 rookies to their team next year, and they have no low post scoring or rebounding.  That’s the one thing that Boozer still excels at, plus he has played in the playoffs in both the WCF and the ECF during his career.

Taj is talented enough to be moved, possibly even during the draft to move up a spot or two.  They would probably wait until the offseason and see if Carmelo is serious about signing with Chicago.  I think that the Bulls are NOT going to sign him to a max deal, but something a little less.  Possibly $18 instead of $22 million a year.  That gives the Bulls a little wiggle room to go after a player here or there and keep a competing team on the floor.  They would still have Mirotic as an asset, but they should trade him if he isn’t here in the next 2 seasons.  But, if they draft correctly in 2014 (2-3 picks) and 2015 (1-2 picks) they could be contenders throughout the remainder of the 2010’s.

 

 

  

[NardDog NationParticipant]

 The Bulls are a pretty good team without Rose but contenders, they are not. And with his health now a serious concern, I don’t think they’ll be able to regain that status by some minor tweakings and middling draft picks (although it is possible; that was Indiana’s blueprint, however, rare an occurrence). If anything, their outlook has been worsened from having traded Loul Deng and from the regression of Jimmy Butler’s offense. Needless to say, they need to swing for the fences and they now, fortunately, have the opportunity to do just that.

A guy like Melo is a gamechanger, in and of himself, and compliments the current Bulls core (Noah, Gibson and Rose) well. Based on his marketvalue, Boozer, Augustin, Mirotic and 2 first rounders is a pretty modest request. And considering how cheap Reinsdorf is, I think he much rather pay Melo his $20 million to play than to pay Boozer $14 million to not do so (via amnesty). This makes too much sense to not happen.

[NardDog NationParticipant]

 The Bulls are a pretty good team without Rose but contenders, they are not. And with his health now a serious concern, I don’t think they’ll be able to regain that status by some minor tweakings and middling draft picks (although it is possible; that was Indiana’s blueprint, however, rare an occurrence). If anything, their outlook has been worsened from having traded Loul Deng and from the regression of Jimmy Butler’s offense. Needless to say, they need to swing for the fences and they now, fortunately, have the opportunity to do just that.

A guy like Melo is a gamechanger, in and of himself, and compliments the current Bulls core (Noah, Gibson and Rose) well. Based on his marketvalue, Boozer, Augustin, Mirotic and 2 first rounders is a pretty modest request. And considering how cheap Reinsdorf is, I think he much rather pay Melo his $20 million to play than to pay Boozer $14 million to not do so (via amnesty). This makes too much sense to not happen.

[Scott42444Participant]

His extension was signed after the new CBA, whereas the amnesty applies to contracts that were prior to the current CBA.  So, I don’t think that the Bulls can use the amnesty provision on Rose.  I just don’t think the Bulls would give up any assets, especially 2 picks in the 2014 draft and Nikola Mirotic in addition to Butler.  Augustin is a good player, but I don’t think he will resign with Chicago (he has earned more money than the Bulls will probably offer) and Boozer is definitely gone in Chicago.  

So basically, if the Bulls can still get some assets for Dunleavy and Hinrich, they will probably send them away this year.  I don’t know how valid it is but I saw a Boozer to Phoenix rumor for Okafor and 1 of 4 picks for the Suns.  This would actually save the Bulls a little under $1 million (important considering the Bulls are close to the luxury tax STILL and there are some bonuses that COULD be paid out this year, like Taj Gibson making 1st or 2nd Team All-NBA Defense).  They would also get millions back in insurance money because Okafor’s contract was insured for nearly $6 million (I think).  The Suns have plenty of room under the cap for Boozer, they are NOT going to bring in 4-6 rookies to their team next year, and they have no low post scoring or rebounding.  That’s the one thing that Boozer still excels at, plus he has played in the playoffs in both the WCF and the ECF during his career.

Taj is talented enough to be moved, possibly even during the draft to move up a spot or two.  They would probably wait until the offseason and see if Carmelo is serious about signing with Chicago.  I think that the Bulls are NOT going to sign him to a max deal, but something a little less.  Possibly $18 instead of $22 million a year.  That gives the Bulls a little wiggle room to go after a player here or there and keep a competing team on the floor.  They would still have Mirotic as an asset, but they should trade him if he isn’t here in the next 2 seasons.  But, if they draft correctly in 2014 (2-3 picks) and 2015 (1-2 picks) they could be contenders throughout the remainder of the 2010’s.

 

 

  

[NardDog NationParticipant]

 I think the Knicks’ best option at this point is to move Melo, regardless of if he wants to stay or go. The fact of the matter is that they have too many holes to fill to expect to retool around him now or in the immediate future. Chicago is by far the best option to trade him to because they offer an interesting combination of expiring contracts, prospects and draft picks to entice the Knicks. On the flip side of things, Chicago would be much better served with Melo than the aforementioned since they can win now.

I think the deal should be this: Melo, Felton and Shumpert for Carlos Boozer, DJ Augustin (sign and trade), Jimmy Butler, the draft rights to Nikola Mirotic and both 1st draft picks in the 2014 draft. The Bulls get their man while ditching Boozer (thereby saving their amnesty for Rose if his injury problems become chronic). They also get the opportunity to be a contender in the East again this season. Meanwhile the Knicks get as close to market value as they are ever going to get for Melo.

[tbest23Participant]

I don’t think the Bulls would do this as the article currently stands. They can amnesty Boozer so his salary if they want so it isn’t that much of an issue. Felton does nothing with Rose (fully healed?) and Augustin there. Snell and Butler have the potential to be very good players and swapping those two for essentially Shumpert isn’t too enticing. Giving up a possible great first rounder as well? I know Carmelo provides a much much needed scoring punch, but at this point in his career, he is what he is on the defensive end of the court. Don’t forget he played for Karl and played Boozer like defense there as well. Taj and Noah MIGHT possibly be the best 4-5 combo in the league right now? I think they need to stand pat with the current info given and let Butler and Snell show a bit more. Also, the Bulls don’t have their feet to the fire, the Knicks do. If they think Melo might walk and have nothing to show for it, then they’re the ones to sweat. Heck Melo might sign with the Bulls without a deal being done at the end of the year, then the Bulls would cut bait with a few guys to make the salary fit? Wonder if Deng comes back for the $30 million he turned down…Might be an interesting offseason for a lot of teams.

[NardDog NationParticipant]

 Even if the Bulls amnesty Boozer and get rid of all their non-essential personnel (Hinrich, Dunleavy, etc.), all they’ll have is $14 million in cap space during the 2014 offseason. That is NOT enough to sign Melo. So if the Bulls intend to get Melo, they’ll have to trade for him, regardless. The Knicks may be sweating at the moment but that doesn’t mean that they don’t have a great deal of leverage.

[NardDog NationParticipant]

 Even if the Bulls amnesty Boozer and get rid of all their non-essential personnel (Hinrich, Dunleavy, etc.), all they’ll have is $14 million in cap space during the 2014 offseason. That is NOT enough to sign Melo. So if the Bulls intend to get Melo, they’ll have to trade for him, regardless. The Knicks may be sweating at the moment but that doesn’t mean that they don’t have a great deal of leverage.

[tbest23Participant]

I don’t think the Bulls would do this as the article currently stands. They can amnesty Boozer so his salary if they want so it isn’t that much of an issue. Felton does nothing with Rose (fully healed?) and Augustin there. Snell and Butler have the potential to be very good players and swapping those two for essentially Shumpert isn’t too enticing. Giving up a possible great first rounder as well? I know Carmelo provides a much much needed scoring punch, but at this point in his career, he is what he is on the defensive end of the court. Don’t forget he played for Karl and played Boozer like defense there as well. Taj and Noah MIGHT possibly be the best 4-5 combo in the league right now? I think they need to stand pat with the current info given and let Butler and Snell show a bit more. Also, the Bulls don’t have their feet to the fire, the Knicks do. If they think Melo might walk and have nothing to show for it, then they’re the ones to sweat. Heck Melo might sign with the Bulls without a deal being done at the end of the year, then the Bulls would cut bait with a few guys to make the salary fit? Wonder if Deng comes back for the $30 million he turned down…Might be an interesting offseason for a lot of teams.

[machu46Participant]

I think it’s best for both Melo and New York to trade Melo, but this is just an awful offer IMO.  You’re basically trading Melo for a couple of role players (one who has potential to be a good starter on a contending team) and a late 1st round pick.

Not to mention you’d then be taking away playing time from the only decent prospect the Knicks have (Hardaway) by adding Snell and Butler into the mix.  And you’d then be stuck with both Boozer and Amare, who play the same position and would take up over half of your cap space I believe.  Just an awful, awful deal.  I feel like a Bulls fan must have come up with it and a rumors website ran with it.

 

 

[NardDog NationParticipant]

 Teams never get equal value for star players. The only thing they can hope to achieve is to clear some salary and acquire some assets that would be worthwild in the future. That being said, the proposed trade sucks but I would not be adverse to making a deal with the Bulls for Boozer, Mirotic, Butler and their 2 first round picks in the 2014 draft. That’s a pretty good haul for a Knick team that has no assets to speak of.

[NardDog NationParticipant]

 Teams never get equal value for star players. The only thing they can hope to achieve is to clear some salary and acquire some assets that would be worthwild in the future. That being said, the proposed trade sucks but I would not be adverse to making a deal with the Bulls for Boozer, Mirotic, Butler and their 2 first round picks in the 2014 draft. That’s a pretty good haul for a Knick team that has no assets to speak of.

[machu46Participant]

Agreed, the deal you mention at the end would be pretty good IMO.

[machu46Participant]

Agreed, the deal you mention at the end would be pretty good IMO.

[machu46Participant]

I think it’s best for both Melo and New York to trade Melo, but this is just an awful offer IMO.  You’re basically trading Melo for a couple of role players (one who has potential to be a good starter on a contending team) and a late 1st round pick.

Not to mention you’d then be taking away playing time from the only decent prospect the Knicks have (Hardaway) by adding Snell and Butler into the mix.  And you’d then be stuck with both Boozer and Amare, who play the same position and would take up over half of your cap space I believe.  Just an awful, awful deal.  I feel like a Bulls fan must have come up with it and a rumors website ran with it.

 

 

[Ghost01Participant]

 I don’t think the Bulls are trading Mirotic in this deal. Not saying it doesn’t make it more even, I just don’t see them doing that. The knicks are the more desperate team. Losing Melo and getting nothing in return would be a disaster. I wouldn’t want to throw my one truly valuable young asset AND two firsts for Melo.

[NardDog NationParticipant]

Melo may leave but he won’t leave to Chicago because they won’t have enough money to pay him. Even if they amnesty Boozer and get rid of all of their non-essential players (e.g. Hinrich and Dunleavy),  they’ll only have $14 million in cap space. Meanwhile, Melo is not taking anything south of $18 million/yr as starting pay. The Bulls need to trade for him if they intend to acquire him.

[NardDog NationParticipant]

Melo may leave but he won’t leave to Chicago because they won’t have enough money to pay him. Even if they amnesty Boozer and get rid of all of their non-essential players (e.g. Hinrich and Dunleavy),  they’ll only have $14 million in cap space. Meanwhile, Melo is not taking anything south of $18 million/yr as starting pay. The Bulls need to trade for him if they intend to acquire him.

[Ghost01Participant]

 I don’t think the Bulls are trading Mirotic in this deal. Not saying it doesn’t make it more even, I just don’t see them doing that. The knicks are the more desperate team. Losing Melo and getting nothing in return would be a disaster. I wouldn’t want to throw my one truly valuable young asset AND two firsts for Melo.

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