[MJBrownParticipant]

I was just reading over a recent post on the best 2 guards in the league, and as per usual, Monta Ellis is coined a one dimensional scorer time and time again. I’ve seen him categorized like this for quite some time now. I just find it difficult to understand how people can be so negative on a player that has averaged between 19 and 25 ppg since his 3rd season in the league. The last 2 seasons he averaged 25 and 24 ppg. It is HARD  to score that many points on a consistent basis. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it. I think its more fair to look at someone with that kind of scoring ability and call him and pure scorer, or a really talented scorer, or something positive like that as opposed to a one dimensional player which comes across so negative. Its easy to find faults in most players games, but when a kid is as talented as Monta, I feel he deserves more credit than disrespect. IMO he’s the 3rd best 2 guard in the league behind Wade and Bryant.

[Anton123Participant]

Monta isn’t that one dimensional, I mean he gets you 5.6 assists, 3.5 rebounds and 2.1 steals per game. 

A one dimensional guy is Kevin Martin, he just scores at a ridiculous rate and occaisonally gets a rebound because of his length, that’s pretty much it.

[Anton123Participant]

Monta isn’t that one dimensional, I mean he gets you 5.6 assists, 3.5 rebounds and 2.1 steals per game. 

A one dimensional guy is Kevin Martin, he just scores at a ridiculous rate and occaisonally gets a rebound because of his length, that’s pretty much it.

[Anton123Participant]

Monta isn’t that one dimensional, I mean he gets you 5.6 assists, 3.5 rebounds and 2.1 steals per game. 

A one dimensional guy is Kevin Martin, he just scores at a ridiculous rate and occaisonally gets a rebound because of his length, that’s pretty much it.

[sammybuckeye13Participant]

Monta Ellis is an elite level scorer. I truly admire him for his craftiness in getting his points, never "settles" for threes, and he should be a model for young ballers, especially ones who know they won’t grow to be 6-6. I also admire that he leads the league in minutes played practically every year. He

That said, he’s a very mediocre defender who prefers to swipe for the ball rather than badger his man. His decent assist numbers (and scoring, at that) are inflated by the Warriors’ pace; they’ve led the league in FG attempts each of the last two seasons. With great power comes great responsibility, and he is not the leader that his stats say he should be, and these shortcomings then bring up the "Golden State Backcourt Debate," where at least half will side with Curry, who has the potential to score as much as Ellis, but is also a pure PG, a better shooter and a stronger leader.

Monta Ellis is one of the best 2-guards in the league but that label isn’t sufficient in describing him. He does have many flaws, and brining them up in debate is not unfair or disrespectful at all. 

[sammybuckeye13Participant]

Monta Ellis is an elite level scorer. I truly admire him for his craftiness in getting his points, never "settles" for threes, and he should be a model for young ballers, especially ones who know they won’t grow to be 6-6. I also admire that he leads the league in minutes played practically every year. He

That said, he’s a very mediocre defender who prefers to swipe for the ball rather than badger his man. His decent assist numbers (and scoring, at that) are inflated by the Warriors’ pace; they’ve led the league in FG attempts each of the last two seasons. With great power comes great responsibility, and he is not the leader that his stats say he should be, and these shortcomings then bring up the "Golden State Backcourt Debate," where at least half will side with Curry, who has the potential to score as much as Ellis, but is also a pure PG, a better shooter and a stronger leader.

Monta Ellis is one of the best 2-guards in the league but that label isn’t sufficient in describing him. He does have many flaws, and brining them up in debate is not unfair or disrespectful at all. 

[sammybuckeye13Participant]

Monta Ellis is an elite level scorer. I truly admire him for his craftiness in getting his points, never "settles" for threes, and he should be a model for young ballers, especially ones who know they won’t grow to be 6-6. I also admire that he leads the league in minutes played practically every year. He

That said, he’s a very mediocre defender who prefers to swipe for the ball rather than badger his man. His decent assist numbers (and scoring, at that) are inflated by the Warriors’ pace; they’ve led the league in FG attempts each of the last two seasons. With great power comes great responsibility, and he is not the leader that his stats say he should be, and these shortcomings then bring up the "Golden State Backcourt Debate," where at least half will side with Curry, who has the potential to score as much as Ellis, but is also a pure PG, a better shooter and a stronger leader.

Monta Ellis is one of the best 2-guards in the league but that label isn’t sufficient in describing him. He does have many flaws, and brining them up in debate is not unfair or disrespectful at all. 

[MJBrownParticipant]

I totally agree that Monta is by no means the perfect 2 guard. I have no problems debating players flaws and positive attributes. It just seems that Monta is one of those players who constantly get bashed for being a volume shooter as opposed to being praised for his ability to score the basketball. I don’t feel that discussing his flaws is disrespecting him at all, so long as we also recognize how talented of a scorer he is as well. I agree with your post in its entirety

[MJBrownParticipant]

I totally agree that Monta is by no means the perfect 2 guard. I have no problems debating players flaws and positive attributes. It just seems that Monta is one of those players who constantly get bashed for being a volume shooter as opposed to being praised for his ability to score the basketball. I don’t feel that discussing his flaws is disrespecting him at all, so long as we also recognize how talented of a scorer he is as well. I agree with your post in its entirety

[MJBrownParticipant]

I totally agree that Monta is by no means the perfect 2 guard. I have no problems debating players flaws and positive attributes. It just seems that Monta is one of those players who constantly get bashed for being a volume shooter as opposed to being praised for his ability to score the basketball. I don’t feel that discussing his flaws is disrespecting him at all, so long as we also recognize how talented of a scorer he is as well. I agree with your post in its entirety

[iguapops420Participant]

Im a Monta fan actually, but I thought it was pretty funny when they asked him who he thought were the 3 best players in the NBA and he said:

1.Kobe

2. I gues myself

3. LBJ

Dude couldn’t even say he was better than Kobe with a straight face. Motherfuckers Know who the games best is.

[iguapops420Participant]

Im a Monta fan actually, but I thought it was pretty funny when they asked him who he thought were the 3 best players in the NBA and he said:

1.Kobe

2. I gues myself

3. LBJ

Dude couldn’t even say he was better than Kobe with a straight face. Motherfuckers Know who the games best is.

[iguapops420Participant]

Im a Monta fan actually, but I thought it was pretty funny when they asked him who he thought were the 3 best players in the NBA and he said:

1.Kobe

2. I gues myself

3. LBJ

Dude couldn’t even say he was better than Kobe with a straight face. Motherfuckers Know who the games best is.

[Jlv2011]

the Warriors pretty well.  The Warriors can’t score, rebound, play make, or steal a ball.  Ellis can do all these things for them.

[Jlv2011]

the Warriors pretty well.  The Warriors can’t score, rebound, play make, or steal a ball.  Ellis can do all these things for them.

[Jlv2011]

the Warriors pretty well.  The Warriors can’t score, rebound, play make, or steal a ball.  Ellis can do all these things for them.

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

Monta Ellis fans are always confused about why Ellis is never mentioned as an elite NBA player by any of the analysts. You guys just can’t look past the 25 points per game and you don’t look at how he gets those points. The guy gets into a game and he just calls his own number again and again. He takes shot after shot basically making the offense become about him instead of the team. Yes he can score so it playing like that kind of works. But he does hurt his team by just making the offense be about him. His team doesn’t win and it doesn’t do well when he is on the court. Go to 82games.com. Last year the Warriors were 6 points worse when Ellis was on the court versus off. The year before that they were 11 points worse when Ellis was on the court. Compare that to Steph Curry, who also plays starter minutes pretty much just like Ellis. The Warriors are 5 points better last year when Steph was on the court. Obviously that doesn’t tell the whole story, but neither does just looking at the 25 points per game average.

Ellis is a good scorer who takes a lot of shots so he keeps his points per game average up. He dominates the ball and the offensive action so he gets assists. He gambles on defense which keeps his steals average up. So he gets these nice stats. But he doesn’t actually help you win a lot of basketball games. Certainly not like Kobe or Wade. Ultimately it is about getting Ws not just putting up nice stats. 

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

Monta Ellis fans are always confused about why Ellis is never mentioned as an elite NBA player by any of the analysts. You guys just can’t look past the 25 points per game and you don’t look at how he gets those points. The guy gets into a game and he just calls his own number again and again. He takes shot after shot basically making the offense become about him instead of the team. Yes he can score so it playing like that kind of works. But he does hurt his team by just making the offense be about him. His team doesn’t win and it doesn’t do well when he is on the court. Go to 82games.com. Last year the Warriors were 6 points worse when Ellis was on the court versus off. The year before that they were 11 points worse when Ellis was on the court. Compare that to Steph Curry, who also plays starter minutes pretty much just like Ellis. The Warriors are 5 points better last year when Steph was on the court. Obviously that doesn’t tell the whole story, but neither does just looking at the 25 points per game average.

Ellis is a good scorer who takes a lot of shots so he keeps his points per game average up. He dominates the ball and the offensive action so he gets assists. He gambles on defense which keeps his steals average up. So he gets these nice stats. But he doesn’t actually help you win a lot of basketball games. Certainly not like Kobe or Wade. Ultimately it is about getting Ws not just putting up nice stats. 

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

Monta Ellis fans are always confused about why Ellis is never mentioned as an elite NBA player by any of the analysts. You guys just can’t look past the 25 points per game and you don’t look at how he gets those points. The guy gets into a game and he just calls his own number again and again. He takes shot after shot basically making the offense become about him instead of the team. Yes he can score so it playing like that kind of works. But he does hurt his team by just making the offense be about him. His team doesn’t win and it doesn’t do well when he is on the court. Go to 82games.com. Last year the Warriors were 6 points worse when Ellis was on the court versus off. The year before that they were 11 points worse when Ellis was on the court. Compare that to Steph Curry, who also plays starter minutes pretty much just like Ellis. The Warriors are 5 points better last year when Steph was on the court. Obviously that doesn’t tell the whole story, but neither does just looking at the 25 points per game average.

Ellis is a good scorer who takes a lot of shots so he keeps his points per game average up. He dominates the ball and the offensive action so he gets assists. He gambles on defense which keeps his steals average up. So he gets these nice stats. But he doesn’t actually help you win a lot of basketball games. Certainly not like Kobe or Wade. Ultimately it is about getting Ws not just putting up nice stats. 

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

 This might have been what started this thread. Here is part of ESPN article on shooting guards. Three out of the five guys say Ellis is most overrated shooting guard. 

 

3. Who’s the most overrated shooting guard in the NBA?

 

 

 

 

Reece Whitaker, via Facebook: Monta Ellis. He averaged 24 points per game, but by taking 1,611 shots from the field. The offense he plays in helps pad his offensive stats and he does not play any defense.

Hayes Davenport, Celtics Hub: At a position rife with bloated contracts and empty scoring, Joe Johnson still remains the least deservingly rated. He made the All-Star team, but by season’s end he probably wasn’t a top-10 shooting guard. Low shooting percentages and his team’s highest usage rate, even with two better options on the floor.

Ryan DeGama, Celtics Hub: Monta Ellis. He’s 11th in the league in usage rate, but only 43rd in player efficiency rating. The undersized Ellis is nobody’s idea of a defensive stopper and still makes $11 million a year. Good luck Mark Jackson (or Doug Collins or whoever else ends up with him).

Dan Feldman, Piston Powered: Richard Hamilton. Hamilton’s production began slipping a few years ago, but his reputation hasn’t yet. He’s a malcontent off the court and only plays well on it when he’s completely focused. That doesn’t happen enough anymore. Bulls and Celtics fans, calm down. Hamilton isn’t the answer to your prayers.

Noam Schiller, Hardwood Paroxysm: Monta Ellis’ raw numbers seem impressive, but he takes way too many shots to score the points he scores, and his pace-adjusted, per-minute numbers are mediocre across the board. If he’s your go-to-guy all night long, your offense will not do well. I’d rather see him in a sixth-man role, and he’s certainly nowhere near All-Star candidacy.

 

 

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

 This might have been what started this thread. Here is part of ESPN article on shooting guards. Three out of the five guys say Ellis is most overrated shooting guard. 

 

3. Who’s the most overrated shooting guard in the NBA?

 

 

 

 

Reece Whitaker, via Facebook: Monta Ellis. He averaged 24 points per game, but by taking 1,611 shots from the field. The offense he plays in helps pad his offensive stats and he does not play any defense.

Hayes Davenport, Celtics Hub: At a position rife with bloated contracts and empty scoring, Joe Johnson still remains the least deservingly rated. He made the All-Star team, but by season’s end he probably wasn’t a top-10 shooting guard. Low shooting percentages and his team’s highest usage rate, even with two better options on the floor.

Ryan DeGama, Celtics Hub: Monta Ellis. He’s 11th in the league in usage rate, but only 43rd in player efficiency rating. The undersized Ellis is nobody’s idea of a defensive stopper and still makes $11 million a year. Good luck Mark Jackson (or Doug Collins or whoever else ends up with him).

Dan Feldman, Piston Powered: Richard Hamilton. Hamilton’s production began slipping a few years ago, but his reputation hasn’t yet. He’s a malcontent off the court and only plays well on it when he’s completely focused. That doesn’t happen enough anymore. Bulls and Celtics fans, calm down. Hamilton isn’t the answer to your prayers.

Noam Schiller, Hardwood Paroxysm: Monta Ellis’ raw numbers seem impressive, but he takes way too many shots to score the points he scores, and his pace-adjusted, per-minute numbers are mediocre across the board. If he’s your go-to-guy all night long, your offense will not do well. I’d rather see him in a sixth-man role, and he’s certainly nowhere near All-Star candidacy.

 

 

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

 This might have been what started this thread. Here is part of ESPN article on shooting guards. Three out of the five guys say Ellis is most overrated shooting guard. 

 

3. Who’s the most overrated shooting guard in the NBA?

 

 

 

 

Reece Whitaker, via Facebook: Monta Ellis. He averaged 24 points per game, but by taking 1,611 shots from the field. The offense he plays in helps pad his offensive stats and he does not play any defense.

Hayes Davenport, Celtics Hub: At a position rife with bloated contracts and empty scoring, Joe Johnson still remains the least deservingly rated. He made the All-Star team, but by season’s end he probably wasn’t a top-10 shooting guard. Low shooting percentages and his team’s highest usage rate, even with two better options on the floor.

Ryan DeGama, Celtics Hub: Monta Ellis. He’s 11th in the league in usage rate, but only 43rd in player efficiency rating. The undersized Ellis is nobody’s idea of a defensive stopper and still makes $11 million a year. Good luck Mark Jackson (or Doug Collins or whoever else ends up with him).

Dan Feldman, Piston Powered: Richard Hamilton. Hamilton’s production began slipping a few years ago, but his reputation hasn’t yet. He’s a malcontent off the court and only plays well on it when he’s completely focused. That doesn’t happen enough anymore. Bulls and Celtics fans, calm down. Hamilton isn’t the answer to your prayers.

Noam Schiller, Hardwood Paroxysm: Monta Ellis’ raw numbers seem impressive, but he takes way too many shots to score the points he scores, and his pace-adjusted, per-minute numbers are mediocre across the board. If he’s your go-to-guy all night long, your offense will not do well. I’d rather see him in a sixth-man role, and he’s certainly nowhere near All-Star candidacy.

 

 

[raybeasParticipant]

if his great stats aren’t just a product of Nellieball. If he’d had a real coach (sorry Keith Smart), one who attempted to coach defense and rebounding, and not just chucking up shots, if he wouldn’t just be another Nick Young or Lou Williams.

Don’t get me wrong, he has good offensive skills.  I just don’t think he’d get the minutes/shots he does in any other system, even D’Antoni’s.

I think Ellis is among the top 5 SG in the NBA, behind Kobe and Wade, and along side Johnson and Gordon. Slightly ahead of Martin, Evans, Ginobili and Roy (when healthy).

[raybeasParticipant]

if his great stats aren’t just a product of Nellieball. If he’d had a real coach (sorry Keith Smart), one who attempted to coach defense and rebounding, and not just chucking up shots, if he wouldn’t just be another Nick Young or Lou Williams.

Don’t get me wrong, he has good offensive skills.  I just don’t think he’d get the minutes/shots he does in any other system, even D’Antoni’s.

I think Ellis is among the top 5 SG in the NBA, behind Kobe and Wade, and along side Johnson and Gordon. Slightly ahead of Martin, Evans, Ginobili and Roy (when healthy).

[raybeasParticipant]

if his great stats aren’t just a product of Nellieball. If he’d had a real coach (sorry Keith Smart), one who attempted to coach defense and rebounding, and not just chucking up shots, if he wouldn’t just be another Nick Young or Lou Williams.

Don’t get me wrong, he has good offensive skills.  I just don’t think he’d get the minutes/shots he does in any other system, even D’Antoni’s.

I think Ellis is among the top 5 SG in the NBA, behind Kobe and Wade, and along side Johnson and Gordon. Slightly ahead of Martin, Evans, Ginobili and Roy (when healthy).

[aamir543Participant]

the Warriors pretty well. The Warriors can’t score, rebound, play make, or steal a ball. Ellis can do all these things for them.

As a Warriors fan, I’m not even going to comment on that.

[aamir543Participant]

the Warriors pretty well. The Warriors can’t score, rebound, play make, or steal a ball. Ellis can do all these things for them.

As a Warriors fan, I’m not even going to comment on that.

[aamir543Participant]

the Warriors pretty well. The Warriors can’t score, rebound, play make, or steal a ball. Ellis can do all these things for them.

As a Warriors fan, I’m not even going to comment on that.

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

 In the quote from Noam Schiller he says you have to look at Ellis’s pace adjusted numbers. Basically what he is saying is that the Warriors play so fast and put up so many shots that it inflates all of their guys "per game" numbers. Basically a game against the Warriors has more possessions, so more chances to score but also more chances to be scored on. So yes if Ellis played on a slow team he wouldn’t have enough possessions to average 25 points per game. 

Oh and Ginobli is way better than Ellis. 

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

 In the quote from Noam Schiller he says you have to look at Ellis’s pace adjusted numbers. Basically what he is saying is that the Warriors play so fast and put up so many shots that it inflates all of their guys "per game" numbers. Basically a game against the Warriors has more possessions, so more chances to score but also more chances to be scored on. So yes if Ellis played on a slow team he wouldn’t have enough possessions to average 25 points per game. 

Oh and Ginobli is way better than Ellis. 

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

 In the quote from Noam Schiller he says you have to look at Ellis’s pace adjusted numbers. Basically what he is saying is that the Warriors play so fast and put up so many shots that it inflates all of their guys "per game" numbers. Basically a game against the Warriors has more possessions, so more chances to score but also more chances to be scored on. So yes if Ellis played on a slow team he wouldn’t have enough possessions to average 25 points per game. 

Oh and Ginobli is way better than Ellis. 

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