[bloodshyParticipant]

At this point there is no debate.  MJ is the greatest.  However, since it was brought up, let’s look at the numbers.

Career averages:

MJ: 30.1 ppg, 5.3 apg, 6.2 rpg, 2.3 spg, .8 bpg, 2.7 tovpg, .497 fg%, .327 3pt%, .835 ft%

LBJ: 27.6 ppg, 6.9 apg, 7.2 rpg, 1.7 spg, .8 bpg, 3.3 tovpg, .483 fg%, .331 3pt%, .746 ft%

Over their career, I’d give the edge to MJ at his point.  Looking at the big three stats it’s close with MJ up 2.5 on ppg, but down 1.6 on apg and 1.0 on rpg.  However, MJ wins on steals, turnovers and overall % shooting.  Moreover, the gap would be much bigger if not for MJ’s final two seasons at 38 & 39 years old on the Wiz. 

Best season’s numbers:

MJ@23: 37.1 ppg, 4.6 apg, 5.2 rpg, 2.9 spg, 1.5 bpg

MJ@25: 32.5 ppg, 8.0 apg, 8.0 rpg, 2.9 spg, .8 bpg

LBJ@21: 31.4 ppg, 6.6 apg, 7.2 rpg, 1.6 spg, .8 bpg

LBJ@25: 29.7 ppg, 8.6 apg, 7.3 rpg, 1.6 spg, 1 bpg

First championship year’s numbers:

MJ: 31.5 ppg, 5.5 apg, 6.0 rpg, 2.7 spg, 1.0 bpg

LBJ: 27.1 ppg, 6.2 apg, 7.9 rpg, 1.9 spg, 1.0 bpg

From raw stats alone, the advantage clearly goes to MJ.  He was a less consistent passer and rebounder than James, but showed he could do both solidly when he put his mind to it. James has never averaged 8 rpg and only once broke 8 apg, which MJ also did once.  And MJ was clearly a more prolific scorer statistically.  James’ fans claim James could score 38 ppg if he wanted to, but the reality is that he’s never topped 31.4 ppg. They then credit him for higher passing/rebounding ability than MJ, but forget MJ actually put up 32.5/8/8 one year.  Advantage MJ.  Additionally, on defense, MJ led the league in steals three times and even ranked in the top 3 for blocked shots once.  Statistically, MJ was simply better overall.

However, as we know, stats don’t necessarily tell the whole story.  When Jordan played, the NBA was faster.  As a result, most teams had scoring rates similar (and often ahead of) the D’Antoni Suns of a few years back.  As we know, more posessions = more opportunity for stats.  Additionally, the extra hand checking that went on was more than made up for by the "illegal defense" rule that made running zones illegal.  In MJ’s time, it was much harder to crowd a star player’s hot spots because zone was illegal.  Jordan had both.  Additionally, while MJ’s stats suggest he was a better individual defender (he was), LBJ is not far behind.  And LBJ can guard 5 posititions.  MJ could guard 2 with dominance and 3 in a pinch. 

Most importatly, MJ owned the NBA.  He seemed to take what he wanted when he wanted it.  He won 6, but also damaged the legacies of several of the NBA’s greatest players in the process.  Had he not retired, he likely could have won 2-3 more in a row.  He had no peers.

LBJ is the best player in the league, but he has peers.  He has not taken control of the NBA the way Jordan did, which was what made Jordan great. Lebron will almost certainly never match MJ’s gawdy numbers from his pre-championship days, so how can LBJ possibly ever be considered greater than MJ?  And what would it take for the population at l

The only way I can see it happening is if LBJ (1) wins more total titles than MJ, (2) matches or bests MJ’s numbers during MJ’s champioship runs and (3) becomes all-world likeable as MJ was.  He has his work cut out for him. 

Winning 6-7 more titles (in my opinion, the UNC title counts for MJ’s legacy) is no small feat.  It likely won’t happen, but if it does, LBJ will have met step one.  Step two is less difficult.  LBJ’s numbers this season match up reasonably well against MJ’s first championship run.  If he can maintain this pace, this category will be close to a wash.  LBJ must have people want him to be the greatest to become universally viewed as the greatest.  "The Decision" is a difficult hurdle to overcome.  However, his recent admission of immaturity and talking about being a genuinely good person is a good start.  He still has work to do to reach MJ’s PR pinnacle.

Can it happen?  Yes.  Will it happen?  Probably not.  I think it’s much more likely that LBJ will go down in history as an unquestioned top-5 player all-time and MJ will maintain the crown.  But if i does happen, it should be fun to watch.  Who would be LBJ’s Malone, Barkley, Stockton, Ewing, etc.?

[surveParticipant]

 Excellent breakdown.  I agree.  I do however scoff at those that think Lebron is not on the same level because in his own right, he has a tremendous legacy.  I am a huge MJ fan and thought he was the best player I have ever seen, but I have always maintained…that when you look at things from multiple angles, he is not unequivocally unparalled.  In my mind, Magic Johnson is razor thin behind Jordan…and in his own right, the most unique player I have ever seen outside of Lebron.  So to me, Lebron is not better than Magic yet, but again…each is great in their own right.

Lebron is responsible for the biggest record turnaround (in reverse) for when he left the Cavs.  When MJ left Chicago, they still won 55 games the following season….its not 72 wins…but 55 wins when losing a player of such magnitude should tell you how good Scottie Pippen really was.   

Lebron’s list of "youngest player to do…." is unparalleled, I wont even list here, there are many.  His triple double feats are at the top of history.  Only two others to record triple doubles in clinching Finals game.  Only 6 others have had multiple triple doubles in Finals appearances.

Again, I say appreciate them for who they are, for they are both unique….and should be lauded for what they have accomplished personally and collectively with their teams and not for what their stats look like in comparison to others.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

Rose last year.  Durant and Westbrook this year.  Magic and Bird had each other.  Jordan didn’t really have a peer.  LBJ came as close as he will get to a Magic-Bird type duel when he lost last year to Dirk.  Magic losing to Bird doesn’t count against Magic so I won’t count losing to Dirk against LeBron.  Dirk went video game on the 2011 playoffs and LeBron and the Heatles happened to be in his way. 

LeBron has gone through MVP Derrick Rose last year in the ECF, Russell/Westbrook this year for the championship, as well as some memorable losses against Timmy Duncan and a far superior Spurs team in the Finals then a loss against a loaded Dirk-led Mavs team last year.  

I think LeBron vs. Durant will be a great rivalry.  Maybe not as compelling as Bird-Magic but great nonetheless.  Magic and Bird played on two most iconic teams in the NBA, gave us a sneak preview in the 1979 NCAA title game and then came into the league together.  These guys aren’t on the league’s most hallowed franchises, nor did they come out of the same draft class but it still has the potential to give us some epic battles.  Somewhere just behind Bird-Magic and Russell-Wilt. 

Bird went through some great Philly teams to get to the Finals.  Magic never had to really go through great teams to get to the Finals, although the Lakers did lose a couple of times to some Rockets teams.  Jordan went through the Pistons and Knicks.  LeBron has also gone through the Pistons and Knicks.  Jordan destroyed the Cavs on his road to greatness.  LeBron TOOK THE CAVS TO THE FINALS on his road to greatness. 

MJ won his his titles going through Magic on his last legs, Clyde Drexler and a solid Blazers team, Sir Charles and the Suns, the Sonics with Kemp and Payton, and the Stockton-Malone-Sloan-Nothing-Else-To-Do-In-Utah Jazz.  So far, LeBron has lost to two all-time greats in Duncan and Dirk and just beat two video-game style beasts in Durant and Westbrook.  So LeBron has faced some good ones.  I can see a great Heat-Thunder/LBJ-KD/Wade-Westbrook rivalry brewing which will only add to LeBron’s greatness.  Then there is an outside shot at the Lakers and Kobe getting back to the Finals one last time to face the Miami Heat in a HUGE East Coast West Coast Monster Marketing Matchup.  Some more rematches with the Thunder, an epic Heat-Lakers Final would be fantastic for LeBron’s legacy.  Then you have a potential showdown with some fun upstart teams out West like the T Wolves with Love and Rubio, Cousins’ Kings, and the Memphis Grizzlies.  Then LeBron can close out a memorable career with a final title against the Anthony Davis New Orleans Hornets.  Miami.  New Orleans.  Only one team can win.  But EVERYONE can party and have a good time.

[bloodshyParticipant]

When you look at player stats next to each other, it puts things in perspective.  After running this little analysis, I think MJ and LBJ are a little closer than I previously believed.  If LBJ died tomorrow I think he’d go down as a top-20 all time player, approaching the top-10.  At 27.  That’s ridiculous.  If he simply grinds out stats until he’s 31 and wins just one more championship, he’ll likely retire as a top-5 player all-time.  We’re certainly witnessing greatness.

[TMoney617Participant]

Jordan will end up with the better scoring and defensive numbers when it’s all said and done. LeBron will probably end up with better rebound and assist numbers if he can keep it up and not get injured. The rebounds edge is almost negated because he has 2 maybe 3 inches on MJ and only averages one more rpg. It mostly depends on how many rings LeBron wins. The only thing I hate about these comparisons is that just two days ago so many people were hating on LeBron saying he could never be MJ because he isn’t clutch enough and that he took the easy road by joining the Heat and the whole "Decision" thing. And now that he’s won a championship some of those same people are saying he is better than MJ. It annoys me how some people are such bandwagoners. LeBron is a great player and I predict if he can win like 2 more rings he will go down as the second best player of all time. If not then he’ll still be in the top 5. If he can get 6 rings then I’ll say he’s tied with MJ, and if he can get 7 then I’ll admit he is better.

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