[OhCanada-Participant]

Came off unimpressed by Simmons. It seemed like he deferred to Qaurterman all game. No jump shot and missed some huge momentum free throws at bad times. Also Kentucky was letting him shoot and he struggled with legal physicality the same way Griffin does. Did not seem to be able to demand the ball rally his team or create good shots for his group LSU played hero ball all game which shouldn’t be the case with Simmons going forward. I’m starting to question him as an undisputed 1st overall pick.

Tyler Ulis stole the show. He really fed the rock to Lee and Skal creating easy shots for them and getting the bits pumped up so they were into the game. He fed Lee with alley oops and drop offs on drives that demanded help and fed Skal on pick and pops all night. Great leader that plays the game the right way.

Jamaal Murray quietly had a big game as he has all season long. He is really playing well off the ball despite being better off as a ball dominant player. Very good all around player who doesn’t MIMD mixing it up and getting dirty.

Skal Labissiere showed it all in this game. He missed 2 shots and one of them was without set feet. If he sets his feet that 12-18 foot jump shot is like Steve Nash shooting a free throw. It was nice to see him and Ulis finally perfect the pick and pop. I don’t know why Calipari hasn’t featured that in the offense all year. Defensively he was a nightmare contesting everything that came near him.

[knicks4lyfe88Participant]

 I love tyler Ulis game, if he was 6 ft We’d be talking about him as a lottery pick. I hope my knicks can somehow buy into the first round and grab him.

[knicks4lyfe88Participant]

 I love tyler Ulis game, if he was 6 ft We’d be talking about him as a lottery pick. I hope my knicks can somehow buy into the first round and grab him.

[Arc12345Participant]

 I’ve said it before and I’ve said it again, this guy has not shown he deserves to be the number 1 pick.

If Ingram doesn’t go number 1, I’ll shake my head. What more does he have to and Ben Simmons continue not to do?

Simmons should be a good player, but has he really shown much that makes you say franchise changer?

[Arc12345Participant]

 I’ve said it before and I’ve said it again, this guy has not shown he deserves to be the number 1 pick.

If Ingram doesn’t go number 1, I’ll shake my head. What more does he have to and Ben Simmons continue not to do?

Simmons should be a good player, but has he really shown much that makes you say franchise changer?

[CasualCelt]

 Jaylen Brown could pass Simmons too.

Because Brown is a much much better athlete, and while still raw, he’s actually naturally talented in his weaknesses.

Even Simmons’ biggest supporters wouldn’t say he’s a talented shooter who just needs more refinement.

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

[CasualCelt]

 Jaylen Brown could pass Simmons too.

Because Brown is a much much better athlete, and while still raw, he’s actually naturally talented in his weaknesses.

Even Simmons’ biggest supporters wouldn’t say he’s a talented shooter who just needs more refinement.

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Do not know if you ever saw the 2014 Nike Global Challenge, but I will tell you how much fun Jaylen Brown had playing with Antonio Blakeney. He is a more "confident" shooter than Simmons, but Brown absolutely still struggles there. Plus, did you see his game the other night against Arizona? I think Jaylen Brown is a very good prospect, but I think you idealize him over Simmons a bit too much. NBA people know how loose he is with the ball, he loses it a lot and while he does have a lot of things going for him, I feel he is definitely a tier below Simmons and Ingram. You can keep saying how much better of an athlete he is than Simmons, it does not necessarily make it true. 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Do not know if you ever saw the 2014 Nike Global Challenge, but I will tell you how much fun Jaylen Brown had playing with Antonio Blakeney. He is a more "confident" shooter than Simmons, but Brown absolutely still struggles there. Plus, did you see his game the other night against Arizona? I think Jaylen Brown is a very good prospect, but I think you idealize him over Simmons a bit too much. NBA people know how loose he is with the ball, he loses it a lot and while he does have a lot of things going for him, I feel he is definitely a tier below Simmons and Ingram. You can keep saying how much better of an athlete he is than Simmons, it does not necessarily make it true. 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

People have been waiting all season for Skal to have a game like this, and now that he did, his reviews are absolutely glowing. This is what people thought would happen when they saw Skal at the Hoop Summit, he looked for the most part comfortable, amazing elevation on his jump shot, great timing as a shot blocker and actually getting rebounds.

Still, all of the sudden Ben Simmons is chopped liver? I watched, he did not have a great game by his standards. But this is why LSU is not a great team. I can’t completely blame Quarterman or Blakeney, nor say Simmons is blameless. Even so, it is has been like this pretty much all year. They are just not a very fluid group, role definition is scarce and they have been getting murdered by mobile, bigger players, as Craig Victor is the closest thing they have to a competent big man and Ben Simmons cannot guard everyone.

Simmons did hve a few plays where his decision making on both ends was questionable, ones where he should have stepped up to put in a hand in a shooters face, or he made a questionable read against UK’s defense. The thing is, these are mistakes that every player makes, it just seems to be that he gets scrutinized brutally due to expectations that he should just be taking over games. When has it been that easy? Even Carmelo Anthony and Anthony Davis had teams around them that took a lot more pressure off than LSU boys are for Simmons.

It is just hilarious to me that a game that makes you question Ben Simmons legitimacy as the top pick is this one. I know that LSU beat UK in Baton Rouge, but playing in UK is a different ball game, with a team that has found its voice while LSU is down Keith Hornsby and were struggling mightily even with him in the line-up. A game where Ben Simmons still finishes with 17 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists and 7 steals, to at least put a dent into the 6 turnovers he had.

He actually was more aggressive than the win they had against Kentucky, got to the line 11 times in this one. He also deferred to Tim Quarterman in that win, because he was playing quite well and was a match-up problem for UK’s shorter wings. Skal Labissiere had a fantastic game, to me his best of the season bar none (at least against a high major opponent) and he was the presence many had hoped he would be. In the end, it is still one game amongst a body of work that leaves serious question marks.

With Simmons, even a bad game is a statsheet filler. You cannot tell me that too many players that are draft eligible, if any, would be able to step into his shoes and do better. Worry about him, think he is overrated and of course talk about his shortcomings as far as confidence in his jump shot. He still can use either hand to dribble, is a great passer and while he may struggle with physicality (who doesn’t?), he is at the very least someone that has the strength where he makes you struggle with it as well.

As well as Brandon Ingram has played, no one seems to pick apart his issues as much as they do Simmons, and I think if you are going to compare them both and argue over who is #1 (not 1A or 1B, because no team with the first pick has ever said "damn, I can’t make a decision, we’ll take both of them), you need to put it all out there. Not just say that one defers and one is more aggressive, because their are things that point to that not being the case. If anyone wants to do that, would be glad to partake.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

People have been waiting all season for Skal to have a game like this, and now that he did, his reviews are absolutely glowing. This is what people thought would happen when they saw Skal at the Hoop Summit, he looked for the most part comfortable, amazing elevation on his jump shot, great timing as a shot blocker and actually getting rebounds.

Still, all of the sudden Ben Simmons is chopped liver? I watched, he did not have a great game by his standards. But this is why LSU is not a great team. I can’t completely blame Quarterman or Blakeney, nor say Simmons is blameless. Even so, it is has been like this pretty much all year. They are just not a very fluid group, role definition is scarce and they have been getting murdered by mobile, bigger players, as Craig Victor is the closest thing they have to a competent big man and Ben Simmons cannot guard everyone.

Simmons did hve a few plays where his decision making on both ends was questionable, ones where he should have stepped up to put in a hand in a shooters face, or he made a questionable read against UK’s defense. The thing is, these are mistakes that every player makes, it just seems to be that he gets scrutinized brutally due to expectations that he should just be taking over games. When has it been that easy? Even Carmelo Anthony and Anthony Davis had teams around them that took a lot more pressure off than LSU boys are for Simmons.

It is just hilarious to me that a game that makes you question Ben Simmons legitimacy as the top pick is this one. I know that LSU beat UK in Baton Rouge, but playing in UK is a different ball game, with a team that has found its voice while LSU is down Keith Hornsby and were struggling mightily even with him in the line-up. A game where Ben Simmons still finishes with 17 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists and 7 steals, to at least put a dent into the 6 turnovers he had.

He actually was more aggressive than the win they had against Kentucky, got to the line 11 times in this one. He also deferred to Tim Quarterman in that win, because he was playing quite well and was a match-up problem for UK’s shorter wings. Skal Labissiere had a fantastic game, to me his best of the season bar none (at least against a high major opponent) and he was the presence many had hoped he would be. In the end, it is still one game amongst a body of work that leaves serious question marks.

With Simmons, even a bad game is a statsheet filler. You cannot tell me that too many players that are draft eligible, if any, would be able to step into his shoes and do better. Worry about him, think he is overrated and of course talk about his shortcomings as far as confidence in his jump shot. He still can use either hand to dribble, is a great passer and while he may struggle with physicality (who doesn’t?), he is at the very least someone that has the strength where he makes you struggle with it as well.

As well as Brandon Ingram has played, no one seems to pick apart his issues as much as they do Simmons, and I think if you are going to compare them both and argue over who is #1 (not 1A or 1B, because no team with the first pick has ever said "damn, I can’t make a decision, we’ll take both of them), you need to put it all out there. Not just say that one defers and one is more aggressive, because their are things that point to that not being the case. If anyone wants to do that, would be glad to partake.

[Hype Machine]

2 teams…1 coached to put team first (Kentucky), 1 with egos getting in the way (LSU and not just Simmons)

17 pts, 11 rebs, 4asts, 7 stls. Thats a great game by anyone not named Ben Simmons. Empty stats? Tell me how to do it please and I’ll be a rich man too.

Labissiere had a good game which may be a sign to come, but overall they’ve been about as frequent as Simmons’ homework being completed on time. Ulis makes life easy for everyone and ups his teammates draftstock by himself. But all of Kentucky are future pros…and LSU is a disgruntled team with no chemistry.

You also have a situation whereby the unbearable lovefest the commentators show towards Simmons makes it borderline impossible to like him. It would be nice if they let fans decide objectively what they like about his game. Hes 100% the #1 pick and is going to be an unbelievable pro.

Hes made a complete joke out of the concept of Student athlete with his 1.7 grade average. His team mates and coach also resent him. All year long they hear about how bad they are and how good he is. Its true, but would still annoy them. They work harder and get nothing but criticism for it on an international scale. It would be different if he was carrying them to the tournament and being a goodbleader…but hes not.

And my final point…Simmons has never cared about College from day 1. He doesnt bother to go to class, he didnt even pick a school that gave him a shot at winning. It was a necessary burden en route to a 100m Nike contract which he knew was coming the whole time. He hooked a family member up by going there but his teammates (especially Quarterman) dont even pass him the ball. 

He did learn a valuable lesson on the pro’s and con’s of ‘being the man’ at LSU though. You’ll be ass-kissed and hated in equal measure and nothing you can do will ever be good enough (see lebron). The entire basketball world put him on a pedestal…so now he knows the downside.

 

 

 

[Hype Machine]

2 teams…1 coached to put team first (Kentucky), 1 with egos getting in the way (LSU and not just Simmons)

17 pts, 11 rebs, 4asts, 7 stls. Thats a great game by anyone not named Ben Simmons. Empty stats? Tell me how to do it please and I’ll be a rich man too.

Labissiere had a good game which may be a sign to come, but overall they’ve been about as frequent as Simmons’ homework being completed on time. Ulis makes life easy for everyone and ups his teammates draftstock by himself. But all of Kentucky are future pros…and LSU is a disgruntled team with no chemistry.

You also have a situation whereby the unbearable lovefest the commentators show towards Simmons makes it borderline impossible to like him. It would be nice if they let fans decide objectively what they like about his game. Hes 100% the #1 pick and is going to be an unbelievable pro.

Hes made a complete joke out of the concept of Student athlete with his 1.7 grade average. His team mates and coach also resent him. All year long they hear about how bad they are and how good he is. Its true, but would still annoy them. They work harder and get nothing but criticism for it on an international scale. It would be different if he was carrying them to the tournament and being a goodbleader…but hes not.

And my final point…Simmons has never cared about College from day 1. He doesnt bother to go to class, he didnt even pick a school that gave him a shot at winning. It was a necessary burden en route to a 100m Nike contract which he knew was coming the whole time. He hooked a family member up by going there but his teammates (especially Quarterman) dont even pass him the ball. 

He did learn a valuable lesson on the pro’s and con’s of ‘being the man’ at LSU though. You’ll be ass-kissed and hated in equal measure and nothing you can do will ever be good enough (see lebron). The entire basketball world put him on a pedestal…so now he knows the downside.

 

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Simmons played every minute in a must win game for a bubble team against LSU’s ultimate rival this year in UK. Game on! This is why he went to school not for grades.

So in 40-minutes he gets 17-points, 11-rebounds, 4-assists, and 6-steals. He shoots 5-12 FG and 7-11 FT. Sorry but that’s not a good game for him. He also had 6-turnovers which along with Qaurtermans 6-turnovers killed his team. If you watched the game you would understand. He’s playing that drop his head drive down the lane and expect a foul call game. 

At the beggining of the year he seemed like a much better team player. His team seemed to allow him to control the pace of the game and create the offense. I didn’t see that in this game. 

He may very well still be the #1 prospect but I’d give Ingram and Brown a good look before committing to Simmons.

 

 

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Simmons played every minute in a must win game for a bubble team against LSU’s ultimate rival this year in UK. Game on! This is why he went to school not for grades.

So in 40-minutes he gets 17-points, 11-rebounds, 4-assists, and 6-steals. He shoots 5-12 FG and 7-11 FT. Sorry but that’s not a good game for him. He also had 6-turnovers which along with Qaurtermans 6-turnovers killed his team. If you watched the game you would understand. He’s playing that drop his head drive down the lane and expect a foul call game. 

At the beggining of the year he seemed like a much better team player. His team seemed to allow him to control the pace of the game and create the offense. I didn’t see that in this game. 

He may very well still be the #1 prospect but I’d give Ingram and Brown a good look before committing to Simmons.

 

 

 

 

[Hype Machine]

Lol what are you talking about man I watched the game and seen plenty of Brown and Ingram. They’re great players too…this isn’t about them. Theyre in a completely different situation. I also said those numbers are great for anyone BUT him and acknowledge he packed it in for the season a long time ago. This won’t influence NBA teams at all.

Its not like Im in the minority of people who think hes the best prospect either. Hes been #1 for a couple of years now.

Put yourself in his shoes for a second…hes not the typical best player on a college team. He legitimately has a choice…. He can either give 100% to carry a team and coach that hates him, or he can look beyond a game at Kentucky and think forward to a few weeks when he can cash a $100m cheque and take a trip to Miami with Lebron to pick out a new Ferrari. No other NCAA player is in that situation. Hes probably a little distracted and doesnt feel obliged to bust his backside for a coach he doesnt respect and has done nothing for him in return….so hes gone the other way.

What would you do? When I was 19…I’d say ‘F@#$ Johnny Jones, show me the good life’.

Hes gonna get hated on his whole career because hes an easy target and people are envious. He doesnt have a feel-good story like Steph Curry where he rose from a small program. Its been bashed into our head that hes the next big thing from a young age…and lots of people dont like that. Lots do…which is why he will sell millions of sneakers. But lots don’t.

Regardless, hes going to be an All NBA First-Teamer and the kinda guy who fans love to booo his entire career.

[Hype Machine]

Lol what are you talking about man I watched the game and seen plenty of Brown and Ingram. They’re great players too…this isn’t about them. Theyre in a completely different situation. I also said those numbers are great for anyone BUT him and acknowledge he packed it in for the season a long time ago. This won’t influence NBA teams at all.

Its not like Im in the minority of people who think hes the best prospect either. Hes been #1 for a couple of years now.

Put yourself in his shoes for a second…hes not the typical best player on a college team. He legitimately has a choice…. He can either give 100% to carry a team and coach that hates him, or he can look beyond a game at Kentucky and think forward to a few weeks when he can cash a $100m cheque and take a trip to Miami with Lebron to pick out a new Ferrari. No other NCAA player is in that situation. Hes probably a little distracted and doesnt feel obliged to bust his backside for a coach he doesnt respect and has done nothing for him in return….so hes gone the other way.

What would you do? When I was 19…I’d say ‘F@#$ Johnny Jones, show me the good life’.

Hes gonna get hated on his whole career because hes an easy target and people are envious. He doesnt have a feel-good story like Steph Curry where he rose from a small program. Its been bashed into our head that hes the next big thing from a young age…and lots of people dont like that. Lots do…which is why he will sell millions of sneakers. But lots don’t.

Regardless, hes going to be an All NBA First-Teamer and the kinda guy who fans love to booo his entire career.

[CasualCelt]

Simmons’ fanboys are full of excuses. 

They’ve considered every possibility for his failure to dominate, except his inability to dominate.

He can’t score outside of 5 feet, and yet somehow his fanboys think his failure to take over must-win games was some kind of choice, or the fault of his teammates.

Dude can’t score outside of 5 feet, so how is he supposed to dominate?

There’s only so many fast break opportunities a game. 4-5 fast break buckets, and 4-5 assists, does not make a superstar. 

What can Simmons do in the half court, other than bully non-conference 6’4" centers inside for layups?

Any NBA team will just let Simmons take his low % 2 point half court shots, just like NBA teams live with Big Al and BLopez and Carlos Boozer and David Lee getting buckets.

Then you add in the attitude, and you’re looking at a guy who looks like a career good stats/bad team guy.

 

Real stars can make a bucket outside of 5 feet. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CasualCelt]

Simmons’ fanboys are full of excuses. 

They’ve considered every possibility for his failure to dominate, except his inability to dominate.

He can’t score outside of 5 feet, and yet somehow his fanboys think his failure to take over must-win games was some kind of choice, or the fault of his teammates.

Dude can’t score outside of 5 feet, so how is he supposed to dominate?

There’s only so many fast break opportunities a game. 4-5 fast break buckets, and 4-5 assists, does not make a superstar. 

What can Simmons do in the half court, other than bully non-conference 6’4" centers inside for layups?

Any NBA team will just let Simmons take his low % 2 point half court shots, just like NBA teams live with Big Al and BLopez and Carlos Boozer and David Lee getting buckets.

Then you add in the attitude, and you’re looking at a guy who looks like a career good stats/bad team guy.

 

Real stars can make a bucket outside of 5 feet. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Lets talk about low % half court shots, shall we? Now, a friend of mine has access to NCAA Synergy, so these are some stats that might sort of dispel some of your fool proof theories. A little more than a quarter Ben Simmons offensive possessions has come in transition and you are right, that is not going to be sustainable in the NBA. But, in the meantime, he is shooting 69% and averaging 6 ppg off of transition. So, not exactly "4-5 fast break buckets", since transition afterall, is not only fast breaks. Their may have been games where that has happened, but 74% of his offense is classified as being in the half court.

So, you like comparisons, right?:

Ben Simmons

Percentage of his possessions in half court: 74.1%

Possessions per game in half court: 14.5

Points per game in half court: 13.9

Points per possession: .959

FG%: 52.6%

Adjusted FG% (taking into account the 3 pointer): 52.7%

Percentage of plays ending in a TO: 15.9%

Percentage of possessions player is awarded FT: 24.1%

Percentage of plays where foul is awarded in act of shooting: 13.3%

Percentage of possessionsthat end with at least 1 point (1 PPR is the magic #): 50.6%

 

Jaylen Brown

Percentage of his possessions in half court: 77.6%

 

Possessions per game in half court: 13.4

Points per game in half court: 10.9

Points per possession: .816

FG%: 39.8%

Adjusted FG% (taking into account the 3 pointer): 45%

Percentage of plays ending in a TO: 18.7%

Percentage of possessions player is awarded FT: 17.4%

Percentage of plays where foul is awarded in act of shooting: 11.4%

Percentage of possessions that end with at least 1 point: 39.3%

 

Brandon Ingram

Percentage of possessions in half court: 91.1%

 

Possessions per game in half court: 15.5

Points per game in half court: 14.9

Points per possession: .961

FG%: 43.8%

Adjusted FG% (taking into account the 3 pointer): 51.8%

Percentage of plays ending in a TO: 12

Percentage of possessions player is awarded FT: 14.7%

Percentage of plays where foul is awarded in act of shooting: 8.7%

Percentage of possessions that end with at least 1 point: 44%

 

So, we can see that at the very least, their may be some doubt about just how much more efficient Jaylen Brown has been in the half court. Ingram you may feel is a bit more comparable, with his fantastic spot-up shooting seemingly easing the learning curve. Still, why is a player with the ball skills of a Brandon Ingram have so few possessions in transition? Plus, he is shooting 52.5% FG (which goes up to a more respectable yet still lesser 61.3% FG) on his transition possessions? What is wrong with thriving in transition? Especially if you shoot as high of a percentage as a Simmons (69%) or Brown (66.7% FG)? Ingram is at 52.5% FG, which moves up to 61.3% FG adjusted to include weight of three pointer. Still, on less than 2 possessions per game (Simmons is 5.9, Brown is 4.6). 

Many of the leagues best scorers have 20% or more of their possessions in transition. Am sure Ingram will be getting many more, but for whatever you say about Simmons only have straight line speed (which I do not necessarily agree with), he is certainly faster and stronger than Ingram. Also, for as much as he "may only be a right hand shooter" on anything other than jump shots (he does absolutely have a proclivity for finishing right), he is at least a very strong dribbler with either hand, plus those "4-5 assists" are not something to scoff at. 

Meanwhile, since people want to hop on how mediocre Ben Simmons and his "failure to take over must win-games", did you catch Brandon Ingram struggling today? Or Jaylen Brown’s past two games? I just think that while people are casting the shadow of doubt, lets bring everyone into it. Brandon Ingram went 0’fer after picking up a couple of bad fouls in the 1st half, and struggled shooting in the 2nd half on his way to 10 points on 3-12 shooting. Against their hated rivals, at home. He showed some flashes of brilliance, and I liked his aggression as a rebounder (8 boards), but, he did not exactly carry the team on his shoulders. He deferred to Grayson Allen, who had a fantastic game, but Brandon could have played better. He had a tough game against a good team.

Now, did you watch Jaylen Brown against Arizona? I did. Was not pretty. He really struggled, against a team where he really could have taken advantage of his match-up. He was not focused, he got in really bad foul trouble that cost him most of the 1st half and could never get it going in the 2nd, making a couple of more horribly timed fouls with a lot of time left. Cal lost a game they really could have used their best player. They still scooped up #3 seed in the Pac-12 tournament, but am sure they would have rather finished 13-5 in the Pac rather than 12-6.

It still remains a body of work rather than overreacting off of a single game. Yet, whenever Simmons does anything, it is scrutinized to the teeth while other guys get kind of a free pass, at the very least on this board. At the very least, I wanted to show you that your theory on how much more efficient Jaylen Brown is going to be in the half court is at least not near proven. I absolutely think there are things Ben Simmons can improve on, but as far as "not taking over games", are any of the other freshmen doing that on a consistent basis? It is kind of a double standard, in that you say Simmons should be doing it while not expecting the same from players you see challenging him as the top pick. If you want Ben Simmons to take accountability and lead LSU to the NCAA tournament by taking over "must-win" games, can you at least answer me as to why you feel the other freshmen you see challenging Ben Simmons for the top spot would be doing better in his position at LSU? I think it is a pretty fair question.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Lets talk about low % half court shots, shall we? Now, a friend of mine has access to NCAA Synergy, so these are some stats that might sort of dispel some of your fool proof theories. A little more than a quarter Ben Simmons offensive possessions has come in transition and you are right, that is not going to be sustainable in the NBA. But, in the meantime, he is shooting 69% and averaging 6 ppg off of transition. So, not exactly "4-5 fast break buckets", since transition afterall, is not only fast breaks. Their may have been games where that has happened, but 74% of his offense is classified as being in the half court.

So, you like comparisons, right?:

Ben Simmons

Percentage of his possessions in half court: 74.1%

Possessions per game in half court: 14.5

Points per game in half court: 13.9

Points per possession: .959

FG%: 52.6%

Adjusted FG% (taking into account the 3 pointer): 52.7%

Percentage of plays ending in a TO: 15.9%

Percentage of possessions player is awarded FT: 24.1%

Percentage of plays where foul is awarded in act of shooting: 13.3%

Percentage of possessionsthat end with at least 1 point (1 PPR is the magic #): 50.6%

 

Jaylen Brown

Percentage of his possessions in half court: 77.6%

 

Possessions per game in half court: 13.4

Points per game in half court: 10.9

Points per possession: .816

FG%: 39.8%

Adjusted FG% (taking into account the 3 pointer): 45%

Percentage of plays ending in a TO: 18.7%

Percentage of possessions player is awarded FT: 17.4%

Percentage of plays where foul is awarded in act of shooting: 11.4%

Percentage of possessions that end with at least 1 point: 39.3%

 

Brandon Ingram

Percentage of possessions in half court: 91.1%

 

Possessions per game in half court: 15.5

Points per game in half court: 14.9

Points per possession: .961

FG%: 43.8%

Adjusted FG% (taking into account the 3 pointer): 51.8%

Percentage of plays ending in a TO: 12

Percentage of possessions player is awarded FT: 14.7%

Percentage of plays where foul is awarded in act of shooting: 8.7%

Percentage of possessions that end with at least 1 point: 44%

 

So, we can see that at the very least, their may be some doubt about just how much more efficient Jaylen Brown has been in the half court. Ingram you may feel is a bit more comparable, with his fantastic spot-up shooting seemingly easing the learning curve. Still, why is a player with the ball skills of a Brandon Ingram have so few possessions in transition? Plus, he is shooting 52.5% FG (which goes up to a more respectable yet still lesser 61.3% FG) on his transition possessions? What is wrong with thriving in transition? Especially if you shoot as high of a percentage as a Simmons (69%) or Brown (66.7% FG)? Ingram is at 52.5% FG, which moves up to 61.3% FG adjusted to include weight of three pointer. Still, on less than 2 possessions per game (Simmons is 5.9, Brown is 4.6). 

Many of the leagues best scorers have 20% or more of their possessions in transition. Am sure Ingram will be getting many more, but for whatever you say about Simmons only have straight line speed (which I do not necessarily agree with), he is certainly faster and stronger than Ingram. Also, for as much as he "may only be a right hand shooter" on anything other than jump shots (he does absolutely have a proclivity for finishing right), he is at least a very strong dribbler with either hand, plus those "4-5 assists" are not something to scoff at. 

Meanwhile, since people want to hop on how mediocre Ben Simmons and his "failure to take over must win-games", did you catch Brandon Ingram struggling today? Or Jaylen Brown’s past two games? I just think that while people are casting the shadow of doubt, lets bring everyone into it. Brandon Ingram went 0’fer after picking up a couple of bad fouls in the 1st half, and struggled shooting in the 2nd half on his way to 10 points on 3-12 shooting. Against their hated rivals, at home. He showed some flashes of brilliance, and I liked his aggression as a rebounder (8 boards), but, he did not exactly carry the team on his shoulders. He deferred to Grayson Allen, who had a fantastic game, but Brandon could have played better. He had a tough game against a good team.

Now, did you watch Jaylen Brown against Arizona? I did. Was not pretty. He really struggled, against a team where he really could have taken advantage of his match-up. He was not focused, he got in really bad foul trouble that cost him most of the 1st half and could never get it going in the 2nd, making a couple of more horribly timed fouls with a lot of time left. Cal lost a game they really could have used their best player. They still scooped up #3 seed in the Pac-12 tournament, but am sure they would have rather finished 13-5 in the Pac rather than 12-6.

It still remains a body of work rather than overreacting off of a single game. Yet, whenever Simmons does anything, it is scrutinized to the teeth while other guys get kind of a free pass, at the very least on this board. At the very least, I wanted to show you that your theory on how much more efficient Jaylen Brown is going to be in the half court is at least not near proven. I absolutely think there are things Ben Simmons can improve on, but as far as "not taking over games", are any of the other freshmen doing that on a consistent basis? It is kind of a double standard, in that you say Simmons should be doing it while not expecting the same from players you see challenging him as the top pick. If you want Ben Simmons to take accountability and lead LSU to the NCAA tournament by taking over "must-win" games, can you at least answer me as to why you feel the other freshmen you see challenging Ben Simmons for the top spot would be doing better in his position at LSU? I think it is a pretty fair question.

[CasualCelt]

 You can micro-analyze the college stats all you want, but it doesn’t change the fact that Ingram is a full year younger than Simmons, with much more physical development to go than Simmons has.

And Jaylen Brown is still the better athlete, no matter how much you want to pretend otherwise.

Players improve their ball control in the NBA a lot more consistently than they improve their jump shooting.

And players who refuse to shoot jumpers don’t improve their shot at all. 

 

 

 

 

 

[CasualCelt]

 You can micro-analyze the college stats all you want, but it doesn’t change the fact that Ingram is a full year younger than Simmons, with much more physical development to go than Simmons has.

And Jaylen Brown is still the better athlete, no matter how much you want to pretend otherwise.

Players improve their ball control in the NBA a lot more consistently than they improve their jump shooting.

And players who refuse to shoot jumpers don’t improve their shot at all. 

 

 

 

 

 

[CasualCelt]

 Simmons is scrutinized to the teeth after every game because he consistently shows CRAP body language.

Getting lost in the minutia of the stats makes a person lose sight of the huge intangible issues being revealed by the body language.

If stats were the only thing that mattered, James Harden would be right there in the MVP discussion, and people would still be talking about Morey like he’s some genius.

In reality, Morey is just a math guy who gets lost in the numbers, and who dismisses the importance of intangibles.

Morey just doesn’t have the emotional intelligence to understand that his math equations are far too simple.

Unless Simmons lands on the Celtics, he’s going to land on a bad team. Is he going to be any more popular with his teammates in the NBA? Is that team going to over-achieve with Simmons?

Doubtful. Just like it’s doubtful that Simmons will help LSU win the NIT tourney.

Just look at the Rockets. Do you see those guys working hard and enjoying playing with Harden? No, they show the same bad body language as Simmons’ teammates.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CasualCelt]

 Simmons is scrutinized to the teeth after every game because he consistently shows CRAP body language.

Getting lost in the minutia of the stats makes a person lose sight of the huge intangible issues being revealed by the body language.

If stats were the only thing that mattered, James Harden would be right there in the MVP discussion, and people would still be talking about Morey like he’s some genius.

In reality, Morey is just a math guy who gets lost in the numbers, and who dismisses the importance of intangibles.

Morey just doesn’t have the emotional intelligence to understand that his math equations are far too simple.

Unless Simmons lands on the Celtics, he’s going to land on a bad team. Is he going to be any more popular with his teammates in the NBA? Is that team going to over-achieve with Simmons?

Doubtful. Just like it’s doubtful that Simmons will help LSU win the NIT tourney.

Just look at the Rockets. Do you see those guys working hard and enjoying playing with Harden? No, they show the same bad body language as Simmons’ teammates.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Its not about one game. Its about the fact that if I was picking first overall I would have to make a full assessment on who I draft. I’m gonna say when Simmons, Ingram or Brown are fully developed which player will provide the most strengths and the least weaknesses. Simmons presents many weaknesses. His strengths are well known. This one game wasn’t the worst game of the year. He has done this all year. 

Amazing prospect nobodies doubting that I’m just saying in my opinion he isn’t the clear cut number one. He hasn’t been passed or dethroned at this time its just that he hasnt been crowned king of the 2016 draft either.

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Its not about one game. Its about the fact that if I was picking first overall I would have to make a full assessment on who I draft. I’m gonna say when Simmons, Ingram or Brown are fully developed which player will provide the most strengths and the least weaknesses. Simmons presents many weaknesses. His strengths are well known. This one game wasn’t the worst game of the year. He has done this all year. 

Amazing prospect nobodies doubting that I’m just saying in my opinion he isn’t the clear cut number one. He hasn’t been passed or dethroned at this time its just that he hasnt been crowned king of the 2016 draft either.

 

[Hype Machine]

Ahh man you guys are tripping…Every player has weaknesses, especially after 1 season of college. Even once these guys were seasoned professionals…

Jordan couldn’t shoot 3’s

Larry Bird was as slow as a sloth

Steph Curry and Steve Nash can’t play defense

Shaq and Wilt couldn’t shoot free throws

Lebron shoots 9% in the clutch.

Simmons can’t hit a jumpshot.

Yet these guys all have strengths that make them unstoppable champions and HOF’ers. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hype Machine]

Ahh man you guys are tripping…Every player has weaknesses, especially after 1 season of college. Even once these guys were seasoned professionals…

Jordan couldn’t shoot 3’s

Larry Bird was as slow as a sloth

Steph Curry and Steve Nash can’t play defense

Shaq and Wilt couldn’t shoot free throws

Lebron shoots 9% in the clutch.

Simmons can’t hit a jumpshot.

Yet these guys all have strengths that make them unstoppable champions and HOF’ers. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

 Oh awesome more talk about an average LSU team. 

Honestly has ESPN ever pumped up a more blah team in the history of NCAA basketball? 

They aren’t a trainwreck. They are average. It’s gotten to the point where it is pathetic how much they cover that team. 

Kentucky scary is a single-elimination setting because more likely than not, they’ll have the two best players on the floor with Ulis and Murray. This Cats team isn’t as deep as even the 3 or 4 teams before last year’s group but they’ve got high-end guys that can control a game for sure. 

I can’t wait until LSU loses in the SEC Tournament though and we don’t have to hear about them anymore. It’s beyond annoying. 

 

 

 

 

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

 Oh awesome more talk about an average LSU team. 

Honestly has ESPN ever pumped up a more blah team in the history of NCAA basketball? 

They aren’t a trainwreck. They are average. It’s gotten to the point where it is pathetic how much they cover that team. 

Kentucky scary is a single-elimination setting because more likely than not, they’ll have the two best players on the floor with Ulis and Murray. This Cats team isn’t as deep as even the 3 or 4 teams before last year’s group but they’ve got high-end guys that can control a game for sure. 

I can’t wait until LSU loses in the SEC Tournament though and we don’t have to hear about them anymore. It’s beyond annoying. 

 

 

 

 

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