[jeffbobtomsteveParticipant]

So I don’t post much on here but I see two main issues with “the draft community”
One is there’s waaaay too much group think, I really like seeing people have bold takes as long as they can justify them.
Two is that this site’s mock is a joke and has always been a joke, I’m not being a hypocrite, these “bold” takes will change soon enough, they do it every year, players move up and down 30 spots week to week and it’s not even because these players are on fire or ice cold, kris murray is at 6 all of a sudden despite being the same player all year and honestly to anyone that paid attention to him last year too. Diatribe over, let’s dive into my thoughts, I welcome constructive counterpoints only.

1. Hou – Wemby – I don’t think any team should pass on him, scoot is great but wemby is potentially transcendent.
2. SA – Scoot – I think Miller is closer than maybe most see it but scoot checks all the intangibles boxes and just seems like more of a sure thing.
3. Det – Miller – I think it falls off pretty hard after these three so despite the recent news Miller still goes third, hopefully he’s learned a harrowing lesson from this.
4. Char – Hood-Schifino – So here’s where it gets spicy, I am considering four guys, both Thompson twins, jarace walker, and hood-schifino.
This whole post was a long way to get to me thinking hood-schifino seems super underrated, he’s inconsistent but he’s also a teenager that shows incredible flashes. He has the ability to shoot from deep and can make plays for himself and others which are traits that most stars have. There just isn’t anyone else left that has good size, athleticism, shooting and playmaking.
5. Orl – Amen – No idea how this pick works out, it’s a weird fit for sure but this team is loaded with bigs so I’m down to Amen, his twin or I’m dipping into the Jett Howard/Gradey Dick types. Amen can’t shoot at all and this team needs shooting but at 5 you gotta go upside and figure the fit out later.
6. Ind – Jarace – This one didn’t take me any time, he’s highest on my board and fits a need, this team is loaded with good young guards.
7. Orl – Ausur – Same dilemma, Dick or Jett could be nice fits but I love the idea of keeping the twins together, you want these guys to be comfortable as they go through all their growing pains. If these guys can even become like 33% shooters than this team is scary.
8. NO – Dick – I love dick. Gradey is cool too, this team has tons of depth already so I think getting a high floor role player is just a luxury here, you could easily convince me Jett or Sensabaugh or even Jordan Hawkins is better but I’ve seen Dick play enough that I’m confident in him being good.
9. OKC – Cason Wallace – Im a thunder fan just so everyone knows, had a lot of names to consider her, Jett, GG, Whitmore, Hendricks, Hawkins. Felt like GG and Hendricks fill a positional need the most but the thunder are pretty positionless.. I actually love Hawkins as a score first 6th man a la Jordan Poole but this seems a tad high for that. Cason just checks a lot of boxes, defends, can pass, can hit shots, he can backup SGA or play alongside him.
10 Port – Whitmore – Not sure there’s a prospect more confusing to me, loved the idea of him before the season but has two red flags I can’t seem to stop thinking about. He doesn’t pass and when I watch him I just keep wondering how he’s different than Isaac Okoro, someone please give me some high level insight on that one.
11. Wash – Jett – Looked at PG’s like nick smith or keyonte but I’m just not super high on either, smith is a one trick pony (scoring) and I’m not even sure how good he is at that, while George isn’t that athletic and hasn’t been efficient. Jett is just as good as those guys at making shots but he’s also 6 foot 8.
12. LaL – GG – I mean they should trade this pick since they have like one or two years left to “contend” but if not then just go upside, not a huge GG guy but he’s also in a terrible situation so maybe that’s part of the problem.
13. Tor – Keyonte – I think he can shoot and there’s at least some playmaking to build on, vanvleet is winding his career down and Keyonte can replace him eventually.
14. Utah – Smith – He can get to his shot really well and that’s something, definitely has potential, just never see him pass and that could mean he’s more Lou Williams than long term starting PG.

Quick hitters
Certain guys I just haven’t seen a lot and I don’t pretend to have a strong opinion when I don’t have one, Sensabaugh, Max Lewis, Rupert just to name a few.
Watch Duke plenty, Lively probably my favorite which isn’t saying much but he’s a very tall athlete that blocks shots and finishes lobs, that’s enough to start at center someday. Filipowski is a slow stretch four that isn’t even making threes. Whitehead can shoot it but hard to say what else he can do in the NBA since he’s not doing much of anything right now.
Watch a lot of Iowa since I live 45 minutes from Iowa city, Murray is just the Markeiff to Keegan’s Marcus, meaning they aren’t that different but Keegan is a little more of a wing. Emoni is more risk than reward to me, so what if he can make shots, most NBA players can score 20 points if they shoot it enough, you need other skills to be a star. Kelel Ware sucks.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

JHS I like a little more after this weekend. Not at 4. That’s just me. I don’t buy his athleticism as much as you do. Not that it’s bad, but it’s not great. There’s a crapshoot after 3 though, so who knows. And I can probably watch more of him, as I have mostly seen highlights of his game. There are many ways a draft can go. Group think from the draft community depends on where you get your information from. Most mocks I follow aren’t part of a group think. They are put together by individuals that have their own grasp on prospects. That being said, I have Emoni Bates later in the draft because there is too much rumblings around the league of him being toxic in the locker room. That’s the red flag. That’s why he dropped on my personal board. That’s an example of someone who moved all over my board. Something I’ve been doing this year since August. Of course a big board in August will be constructed differently than today.

I like your Markieff Morris comparison for Kris Murray. I don’t think he’s going in the top 10 either, but stranger things have happened. But if this is free thinking, why not have Kris Murray that high? On one hand you’re calling the draft community group think. On the other hand if someone has a hot take – well then their mock’s a joke. That doesn’t make sense either. I think it’s wise to have a bit of both. Intel tells you things if you trust where you get your information. I wouldn’t take Murray over Tayor Hendricks, but maybe there’s an explanation of why someone else might.

Also, some guys you mentioned like Maxwell Lewis and Terquavion Smith… maybe they were higher on big boards early because of the success they had either in the beginning of the year of last year. Everything is obviously relative to what performances we watch these prospects display. JHS for example just came off his best performance this year, albeit against Purdue’s backcourt, still he blew up.

Kel’el Ware’s growth has stunted a bit since the beginning of the season. Dante’s been playing pretty well and they’re not going big ball lineups. But I wouldn’t say Ware sucks. He’s in a bad situation for getting drafted though.

Overall, I can see your lottery mock going that way. Doubt it would in some cases, but it could happen. For your lottery mock exercise, it would be cool if the Thompson twins both went to Orlando. Anyways, those are my thoughts.

[HitsterParticipant]

JHS I think is too high at 4. But I’ll accept he has lottery potential as Givony has him at number 20 on his latest mock and we’ll splt the difference.

The Thompson Twins ending up on the same team isn’t an idea I’d thought of before but where you have placed them in the mock I like the idea and it is a fun thing to consider.

In England saying I like Dick has a totally different meaning so I’m still laughing at that line.

Nice mock and some very good comments and explanations for your picks.

[jeffbobtomsteveParticipant]

I think he’s too high at 4 too, I just think everyone is too high at 4. Reminds me of the year Deandre Hunter went 4th because there was a big drop off after the top three.
As far as not liking this site’s mock, not sure if you’ve seen the way it’s worked in the past but my bet is by draft time Kris will not be at 6 anymore and that will have absolutely nothing to do with how he plays the rest of the year. He has risen inexplicably and will fall inexplicably. He could score 50 points per game during a deep tournament run and drop 15 spots on here, there’s just no rhyme or reason to it from what I’ve seen over the years, Kris is just one example out of at least 20.
An example of someone I do like is John Hollinger, he had Josh Minott at like 10 and Jhonny Davis at like 45 or something, it’s not that I agreed with those choices at the time but he evaluated them based on what he values and didn’t see why people liked Davis, he didn’t value him highly one month and then drop him the next month 30 spots on his board. When you say you’ve moved Emoni around that makes sense, he’s a highly volatile prospect, Kris Murray is a junior that has been putting up the same stats all year. It’s like when a politician says he against gay marriage and then starts dressing in all rainbow, I don’t think to myself “oh this guy has seen the error of his ways.” It makes me think if they can randomly change their opinion about an issue (gay marriage/Kris Murray) then why do I care what their opinion is today when it could change tomorrow. If my next post is about how overrated JHS is then I should lose some credibility.

[NorrinRaddParticipant]

fair enough. Sometimes players like JHS can prove me or anyone wrong with a performance like he had Saturday. I think he could be a Rod Strickland type player. Have to move him up a peg. Still not 4th though. It would be nice to have insight of why Murray is ranked 6th on this site over say Taylor Hendricks, younger player with similar attributes. But this site at the end of the day is usually pretty accurate at draft time. Btw, I seem to be the only one preaching Nick Smith on this site as a top 5 pick…. but I think he goes in the 3-4 range. This kid is something else and it appears he’s only getting warmed up.

[HitsterParticipant]

Nick Smith has had a couple of big games and has been building up his minutes after being out for a few weeks. He is looking sharp again after having a couple of good games when he made a delayed start to his season.

As he was just working his way back when I did a quick lottery mock last weekI didn’t include him. But I agree with Norrin if he keeps up his current form he can go very high and if has a good NCAA tournament he will shoot up the mock boards. So if he does keep up his form then it was a good call by Norrin to place him so high.

I want to see a few more games from him before I decide where to place him in my lottery mock. But after Wemby, Scoot, Brandon Miller there are a lot of guys jostling for a top 5 spot and Nick has the potential to be right in this mix.

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