[ChammesParticipant]

 Ok so i’ve been watching lonzo very closely the past year or so, ever since then his supporters and believers have gotten a lot bigger. I honestly don’t know what to think of him, sometimes he shows that he can take the league by storm and be the guy in the league if he improves on his defense and such. At other times i see him being a little bit better shooting ricky rubio, who at this time in his draft class was getting a ton of praise from scouts.

 I don’t understand the Kidd comps because kidd never carried a team and at times i think lonzo can easily be the guy on a championship team. I honestly don’t think we can compare him to anyone else who has played in the NBA. He has great size, out of this world BB I.Q. with magic esque passing. He also has bounce, but he’s not that quick laterally, also has a good shot but will get to that in a second. Now his flaws, he isn’t a good defender i dont know if thats an imaturity thing or not but he can’t guard shit. He has one of the weirdest shots i’ve ever seen and i’m a MKG fanatic. He doesn’t have a good shot off the dribble due to that funky realease.

 Now the juicy part. Honestly i dont know why ANYONE would even have a thought of drafting fox over him. Fox is a good player but is not anywhere close to ball imo and fox is an aggresive scorer and attacked ball constantly. I would pick Ball first if i was a team other than the celtics. But i think he can become a top 5 player in the league, but others are doubting if he’s that good or just all hype like rubio. PLEASE give opinions because im really stuck!!!!

 

 

[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

 SMH… I stopped at "Kidd never carried a team" smh

[ChammesParticipant]

 Kidd had Kenyon who was turning into a very good player and Richard Jefferson who was breaking out into a good player. Kidd was never the center piece of a team

[OhCanada-Participant]

 From the moment Kidd was drafted he was the center of each franchise he was a part of. From the age 21 to 37 he never averaged less than 33 minutes per game. Never less than 8 assists other than his rookie season (7.7). He still in the center of a franchise as a coach/executive. Ball would be very lucky to have a similar career. 

[MkadozaParticipant]

Kidd made Kenyon and RJ in those year. He was the most valuable player on a team that made back to back finals, and it really wasn’t close. Jason Kidd was arguably as valuable as any player in the league during the majority of his career, definitely among point guards (I believe a better career than a PG like Nash). He’s probably a top 10 point guard of all time. 

[esperanzafleet69Participant]

 tell that to pistons fans everywhere watching jason kidd nail a dagger turnaround fadeaway from the corner to go to the finals. 

the nets starting lineup was

kidd

kerry kittles

keith vanhorn

kenyon martin

todd mcoulloch

 

no.. not a carry at all..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ahkasi ClayParticipant]

I love confidence.   I hate arrogance.

 

He reminds me of Snitch Russell.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 A bit like Pete Maravich.  Basketball wizard, deep range, 6’6 but scrawny with YMCA knees, porous defense, hype, and a maniacally overbearing coaching father.

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 For what it’s worth fox outplayed him twice this season when they matched up head to head. The second matchup wasn’t even close. I’m not saying that is necessarily a reason to draft fox over him but I could certainly see where the argument could be made. 

Ball has vision and passing ability that you really only see a few times in generation if that. His feel for the game is extremely rare and special. However, I don’t believe that in itself will be enough to make him a star at the next level. Good player and solid pg? Yes. Superstar? No. At least not if he doesn’t iron out some of the glaring weaknesses in his game.

Even though he shoots a very respectable percentage and can easily make 3s well into NBA 3 point range, his shooting form will be a problem at the next level. The main reason will be the fact that the way he shoots it across his body makes it almost impossible to drive right and pull up for a jumper. His low release point also makes it almost impossible to pull up and get a shot off in traffic from mid-range. There’s a reason he takes so many long 3s and step back jumpers. It’s because those are often the only shots he can really get. NBA defenders will quickly pick up on and exploit these weaknesses and it will severely limit his effectiveness in the pick and roll.

Ball still has time to iron out and tweak his mechanics but it will be difficult for a player who has grown so accustomed to shooting that way. He will get stronger and I think he is a better athlete than people give him credit for and he has outstanding size for the pg position. I actually think he could develop into a pretty good defender with the right coaching. However, it’s just the shooting form that really concerns me. Im not sure how correctable it is at this stage.

 

 

 

[Robb_CParticipant]

I think Lonzo is being nitpicked right now cause of his fathers crazy persona (its all an act) Lavar is playing the game with the media, No such thing as bad publicity. Tiger Woods dad was just as bad as Lavar and we all know how that worked out for Tiger. Lavar is protecting his Children and hes set up the frame for himself to publicly speak whenever he wants.. Lonzo wont have to speak about negatives because his dad will do it for him.. Keeping Lonzos image squeaky clean while Lavar plays bad guy.. 

Lonzo Ball and Josh Jackson are 1a and 1b, ive said this since the start of the season and have stuck by it.. Markelle Fultz is a weapon on offense but hes not going to get those foul calls in the league.  A huge chunk of his pts are FTAs.. Ive said this before about Fultz I really question his ability to play the way he does in the NBA due to his frame.. He couldnt even finish the college season!! 

 

 

 

[binetParticipant]

 I think just the opposite.

LaVar is boosting his stock imo. Everybody talks Lonzo, and the media is heralding him as a potential number one pick even more every day since LaVar is on TV everywhere. And that happens when Lonzo plays terribly. But nobody cares and even some will say it’s because of LaVar’s distraction.

Ball would no longer be discussed for number 1, and perhaps for number 2 even, if it was not for LaVar. Hyping his kid like that gives his stock a lot of steam.

 

 

[Robb_CParticipant]

 Lonzo is being considered the 1st or 2nd pick because hes a unique talent.. I agree with you that Lavar is boosting Lonzos stock but not in the way of his performance.. Lavar isnt on the court making plays, but he is boosting Lonzos marketability.. Lonzo is a quiet kid, Lavar is using his eccentric personality to market Lonzo! That gives the illusion that Lavar is pumping his stock up when in reality scouts know what Lavar and Lonzo are by now.. Lavar is just making sure his sons name is being ran in the media.. I like Lavar I think hes a unique character and people just hate the guy cause he has an alpha personality 

[jjj10manParticipant]

 I can’t pick Ball over Fultz pretty much for the reason you said "better shooting Rubio"

His games against elite defense (Fox) were both shaky, and there are at least 15 people at Fox’s level in the NBA right now. He is an elite passer, but is 10 points 12 assist really a good game to you? Because he will have alot of those in the league

Fultz on the other hand is going to put up at least 20 and 6 by 2019 for 10 straight years. 

 

 

[jabbar_medvedenkoParticipant]

 Actually, 10 and 12 is more productive than 20 and 6. If you convert 5 of 12 assists into points, it’s at least 20 points (more if any of those assists are 3pts) and 7 assists remaining. Your math kinda sucks.

But I don’t think we should look at sheer numbers. I think both of them will be superstars. They both have the whole package of size, athleticism (even if not elite), playmaking and shooting ability. Fultz is a better scorer, Lonzo a better passer, and any team in the league would love to have one of them on their hands.

 

 

[crossyboy82Participant]

First up; 10 points and 12 assists account for 34-46 points, whereas 20 and 6 accounts for 32-38 points. So absolutely, I’d take the playmaker over the flashy scorer, if it means my team scores more points as a result.

Next, I’ve heard the phrase ‘better shooting Rubio’ tossed around like that’d make an average player. Robin’s current stat-line:

 

10.4ppg   4rpg   8.9apg   1.8spg  on 40.8/31.0/88.7.

Now if we take his ‘better shooting’ to equate to a 5% bump across his shooting stats and then take the logic step that a better shooting Rubio would attempt an extra shot per quarter, then his stat line becomes:

17.2ppg   4rpg   8.9apg.  1.8spg  on 45.8/36.0/93.7

That is a sliver off of Chris Paul’s numbers and would be a franchise player for sure.

I think the biggest reason for choosing Fultz is the success of Harden and Westbrook this season, but for me it is a decision over fit, rather than talent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ProudGrandpaParticipant]

Maybe with less of a post game 

[Kwame33Participant]

 I like Fox better than Ball b/c of his shot form and his ability to create for himself off the dribble. Ball’s shot forms scares me and absolutely limits his potential as a shooter and he hardly has any moves, he appears to be extremely rigid when isolated; two things that are pretty critical to be a successful PG in today’s NBA.

[holefillers1Participant]

 I would rather have a penetrating gaurd that plays defense than a high volume shooter with poor defense.  Fox will be more effective because he attacks the paint. Give me drive and kick all day. Ball is all flash with the full court outlets but his half court ability is strangled because he can’t take his man off the dribble.  A guy like Ben Simmons, hell even Dario Saric, can get in the paint, draw defenders and THEN make the great pass.  I watch Ball drive and then jump in the air to kick the ball out to his shooters. Not all the time but enough to worry it will be his M.O. against better talent.  It is the main reason why he has no midrange game.  Sure he can clean some of this up but he already thinks he is the best.  Way to cocky for having so many flaws. The NBA will be a shock to him just like Jamal Murray…Malone removed Mudiay from the rotation and Murray still can’t get time over Harris and Nelson…11 minutes last night.  Maybe Ball can borrow some of Jamal’s imaginary arrows from his invisible quiver and fire them,off into the stands.  Plenty of time to do shit like that when you put zero effort into defending.

[binetParticipant]

 Ball performed arguably bad under pressure all year. Everybody is talking like "it’s just one game", yet, if you are taking the most important games of the season for UCLA, you will have tons of bad outings from Lonzo. Atrocious in Pac-12 tournament against Arizona, not terrible but clearly not top 5 pick good against USC the  round before. Yes, he did have good outings in March, but each and every time that seemed to happen when the opposing team did not have a quality guard.

Ball showed terrible defense and terrible mentality in that loss against Kentucky, no spirit nor willingness to win. Yes, he threw some nice passes but really struggled creating like he did all year (about 1:1 USG%/TO% for the season, very bad). He is heralded as a good-to-great defender (a 9/10 according to this site) and yet clearly seemed bad to terrible on that end, like it’s been the case about each and every time he has been matched up against NBA prspects this season.

Fox showed great fighting spirit that game and the previous one, outclassing Lonzo both times. He made his case. At this point his defense, quickness and mentality seems off-the-chart. And that’s the winning traits from PGs : Rajon Rondo, Tony Parker won Championships with mostly the same qualities. And Fox is arguably more talented (fastest, best defender as a prospect, better mechanics than Rondo despite terrible %, more shooting hope.. Parker’s bball IQ seems way better though.). Fox made his case and honestly, people are still too low on him. Elfrid Payton and possibly Mudiay are hurting his stock a lot, even though they were not half the talent he is (there is an argument for saying those guys are to Fox what Kendall Marshall is to Lonzo).

 

 

 

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