[rileymcshea3Participant]

 Why does everyone think its so easy to make an all star game or to go to the hall of fame?

Do you think that they just let anyone in?

Like Gordon Hayward . Some people think he is gonna be this yearly all star guy well your wrong.For those of you who think he has a chance to make a couple of all star games thats a good guess.And for those of you that think he has no chance of making a all star game well you have a way better chance of being right then for those who think he will be a yearly all star caliber player.

First of all lets look at the people that Gordon has to beat out to make the all star game.If he is a sg he will be considered just a guard and do you know the guards that made the allstar game this year?

Chris Paul,Kobe Bryant,Russel Westbrook,Deron Williams, and Manu Ginobili 

All star snubs* Steve Nash-League leader in assist ,Monta Ellis-8th in the league in ppg,Kevin Martin-9th in the league in ppg

So Gordon Hayward would have to be that better then one of those players just to make the game

Now if he were a sf and just considered a forward and here is the forwards who made the game this year 

Kevin Durant,Carmelo Anthony,Pau Gasol,Blake Griffin,Kevin Love,Dirk Nowitzki

All star snubs*Lamarcus Aldridge,Lamar Odom,Zach Randolph,Rudy Gay

So once again he would have to be at those guys level to make the all star game which is alot harder then most people think and the only time Hayward will make the all star game is in his prime years and his team has a good record

As for Hall of Fame Shawn Marion ,Peja, Antwan Jamison they have like no chance of making it

Vince Carter ,Grant Hill,T-Mac and Ben Wallace actually have a chance to make it .

But these are the player(only players that played most of there career in the NBA) that were voted to the HoF since 2005

Chris Mullen

Dennis Rodman

Scottie Pippen

Karl Malone

Gus Johnson 

Dennis Johnson

John Stockton

David Robinson

Michael Jordan

Hakeem Olajuwon

Patric Ewing

Adrian Dantley

Dominque Wilkins

Joe Dumars

and Charles Barkley

All those players are awesome and that what type of level you have to be on to be a HoF player

[tuck243Participant]

Averaged 4 points this year on a non playoff team… And he played 17 minutes a game at that… He’s a NON MF FACTOR!!! (Basketball Wives) Stop promoting less than average production… 

[tuck243Participant]

Averaged 4 points this year on a non playoff team… And he played 17 minutes a game at that… He’s a NON MF FACTOR!!! (Basketball Wives) Stop promoting less than average production… 

[The White MambaParticipant]

Gordon Hayward is a good player with potential but i think all star expectations are a little high as of right now.

[The White MambaParticipant]

Gordon Hayward is a good player with potential but i think all star expectations are a little high as of right now.

[Scottoant93Participant]

The nba is really talented, they’re are several really good nba players who either get voted in only a few times, and then there are some who never get the nod. Right  now its probably harder then ever i mean there are tons of good/borderline great pg who will be fighting for spots in the future, the only position that is not really stacked is Centers because there are not many great/good ones. At the end of the day its really just people’s opinion of what they think a players’s ceiling is, they have the potential to become an allstar, the potential to be superstar. Nothing is set in stone. btw this is based in general not about gordan hayward(i don’t think he will be an allstar, maybe a solid role player at best)

[Scottoant93Participant]

The nba is really talented, they’re are several really good nba players who either get voted in only a few times, and then there are some who never get the nod. Right  now its probably harder then ever i mean there are tons of good/borderline great pg who will be fighting for spots in the future, the only position that is not really stacked is Centers because there are not many great/good ones. At the end of the day its really just people’s opinion of what they think a players’s ceiling is, they have the potential to become an allstar, the potential to be superstar. Nothing is set in stone. btw this is based in general not about gordan hayward(i don’t think he will be an allstar, maybe a solid role player at best)

[iguapops420Participant]

 Not really a fan. reminds me of a tougher Mike Dunleavey JR. honestly.  If a guy like Mike Bibby never managed to make the all-star game nor a guy like LO, i sincerey doubt Hayward will. The media just likes to push the idea of finally getting the next Larry Bird. The closest thing to Larry Legend they’ll ever get is Drik and even that is a big difference rebounding a defensively.

Hayward wil be a good NBA player to bring off the bench or start as a 4th option in an offensive role similar to that which Tayshaun Prince played for the champion Pistons.

[iguapops420Participant]

 Not really a fan. reminds me of a tougher Mike Dunleavey JR. honestly.  If a guy like Mike Bibby never managed to make the all-star game nor a guy like LO, i sincerey doubt Hayward will. The media just likes to push the idea of finally getting the next Larry Bird. The closest thing to Larry Legend they’ll ever get is Drik and even that is a big difference rebounding a defensively.

Hayward wil be a good NBA player to bring off the bench or start as a 4th option in an offensive role similar to that which Tayshaun Prince played for the champion Pistons.

[rileymcshea3Participant]

 The best comparison  i thought for Gordon Hayward of was Hedo Turkoglu.There both tall and can do a lil bit of everything on offense and can shoot the 3 but Gordon isnt as shot happy as hedo is

[rileymcshea3Participant]

 The best comparison  i thought for Gordon Hayward of was Hedo Turkoglu.There both tall and can do a lil bit of everything on offense and can shoot the 3 but Gordon isnt as shot happy as hedo is

[iguapops420Participant]

 ^^^ That’s really why I compared him to Mike Dunleavey JR instead. Just like Hedo he can handle, run a pick a roll and shoot the three. Has better shot selection though and never a Dwight Howard beside of him to make him look better than he is.

[iguapops420Participant]

 ^^^ That’s really why I compared him to Mike Dunleavey JR instead. Just like Hedo he can handle, run a pick a roll and shoot the three. Has better shot selection though and never a Dwight Howard beside of him to make him look better than he is.

[kanyedabestParticipant]

WOW!! can we let this hayward thing go! ive read from good posters on here saying he has potential to be an allstar maybe 1 0r 2 times….. umm NO he doesnt, yall who keep saying he has a chance are absolutely crazy and obviously no nothing about the nba….. Hayward if he reaches his full potential is a 16ppg scorer MAX! Dang like this has dragged on long enough, dumb bball minds are starting to flock here now nd its quite annoying

[kanyedabestParticipant]

WOW!! can we let this hayward thing go! ive read from good posters on here saying he has potential to be an allstar maybe 1 0r 2 times….. umm NO he doesnt, yall who keep saying he has a chance are absolutely crazy and obviously no nothing about the nba….. Hayward if he reaches his full potential is a 16ppg scorer MAX! Dang like this has dragged on long enough, dumb bball minds are starting to flock here now nd its quite annoying

[TheLastWordParticipant]

The truth is we don’t know enough yet. Hayward was 20 last season and Ginobli didn’t make his first all star team until he was 28. He does resemble Ginobli in his craftiness and is already a better 3 point shooter at 47% than nearly anyone in the league. You can’t go wrong with those skills. How many 20 year olds single handedly beat the world champs?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJPS0Y996J4

[TheLastWordParticipant]

The truth is we don’t know enough yet. Hayward was 20 last season and Ginobli didn’t make his first all star team until he was 28. He does resemble Ginobli in his craftiness and is already a better 3 point shooter at 47% than nearly anyone in the league. You can’t go wrong with those skills. How many 20 year olds single handedly beat the world champs?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJPS0Y996J4

[raybeasParticipant]

That kid is 21 yrs old. Do you know for an absolute fact that he wont ever improve his game? NO YOU DONT! You can not tell me that between now and say 2020 that he wont improve enough to be a coaches pick for an All-Star team. All he really needs is for his coach, whomever that may be, to be the all-star coach. To say he has no chance is to be ignorant of how NBA basketball works.

[raybeasParticipant]

That kid is 21 yrs old. Do you know for an absolute fact that he wont ever improve his game? NO YOU DONT! You can not tell me that between now and say 2020 that he wont improve enough to be a coaches pick for an All-Star team. All he really needs is for his coach, whomever that may be, to be the all-star coach. To say he has no chance is to be ignorant of how NBA basketball works.

[rileymcshea3Participant]

 Raybeas 

I dont know if you are referring to me but if you are ,I never said Gordon Hayward would never be an all star .I simply showed you the players that he would have to beat out to make an all star game.Now obviously those arnt going to be the same guys that make the all star game in 2020 but the league is always drafting other guys that will be NBA all stars in the future and he has to be at Blake Griffin and Kevin Loves level to make it because Blake and Kevin beraly made the cut to get into the all star game.

[rileymcshea3Participant]

 Raybeas 

I dont know if you are referring to me but if you are ,I never said Gordon Hayward would never be an all star .I simply showed you the players that he would have to beat out to make an all star game.Now obviously those arnt going to be the same guys that make the all star game in 2020 but the league is always drafting other guys that will be NBA all stars in the future and he has to be at Blake Griffin and Kevin Loves level to make it because Blake and Kevin beraly made the cut to get into the all star game.

[surveParticipant]

Let me say that this forum is about information and entertainment.  No one here knows it all.  No one here knows what turn a player’s career could take.  We can easily lend support to some theories by things that have happened in the past and history always finds a way of repeating itself.  IIRC, the poster that started the Haywood thread asked did we think Haywood could be an All-Star.  What is far fetched about that????  I dont recall him asking if Haywood would be a perenial All-Star.  There have been plenty of players that have been All-Stars that you probably dont even remember…and they are still playing in the league RIGHT NOW!

For those of you who dont remember Dale Ellis, I will give you a bit of history.  I remember watching the game live where he first broke out.  Ellis was selected 9th by the Dallas Mavericks.  His first 3 years in the league he avg 8.2ppg, 9.3ppg, and 7.1ppg.  Granted, he was sitting behind Mark Aguirre (29.5ppg) and Rolando Blackman (22ppg).  Ellis was becoming more and more buried on the bench.  He was traded to Seattle.  His first year with the Sonics he avg 24ppg.  He followed that up with season avgs of 25.8ppg, 27.5ppg, and 23.5ppg.  He made an All Star team and 3rd team All NBA. 

So as TheLastWord said….we dont know enough yet to say Haywood is this or that.  And as raybeas says, its ignorant to think a guy who has played one season has no shot of making an All-Star team (not All-NBA).  To assume that is utterly ridiculous.  We are saying that to WHOEVER thinks like this.  You dont necessarily have to play on another players level either.  Its relative to the situation…injuries, success of team, contribution all play parts and are variable.

[surveParticipant]

Let me say that this forum is about information and entertainment.  No one here knows it all.  No one here knows what turn a player’s career could take.  We can easily lend support to some theories by things that have happened in the past and history always finds a way of repeating itself.  IIRC, the poster that started the Haywood thread asked did we think Haywood could be an All-Star.  What is far fetched about that????  I dont recall him asking if Haywood would be a perenial All-Star.  There have been plenty of players that have been All-Stars that you probably dont even remember…and they are still playing in the league RIGHT NOW!

For those of you who dont remember Dale Ellis, I will give you a bit of history.  I remember watching the game live where he first broke out.  Ellis was selected 9th by the Dallas Mavericks.  His first 3 years in the league he avg 8.2ppg, 9.3ppg, and 7.1ppg.  Granted, he was sitting behind Mark Aguirre (29.5ppg) and Rolando Blackman (22ppg).  Ellis was becoming more and more buried on the bench.  He was traded to Seattle.  His first year with the Sonics he avg 24ppg.  He followed that up with season avgs of 25.8ppg, 27.5ppg, and 23.5ppg.  He made an All Star team and 3rd team All NBA. 

So as TheLastWord said….we dont know enough yet to say Haywood is this or that.  And as raybeas says, its ignorant to think a guy who has played one season has no shot of making an All-Star team (not All-NBA).  To assume that is utterly ridiculous.  We are saying that to WHOEVER thinks like this.  You dont necessarily have to play on another players level either.  Its relative to the situation…injuries, success of team, contribution all play parts and are variable.

[surveParticipant]

now, as far as the HOF…once again, this is about entertainment and information.  I dont want to come on here and read the same old posts day in and day out saying the same old stuff.  Our HOF discussions were not to say everyone we mentioned had a chance to get in.  Its not that easy, that is one thing I will agree with you on.  We were looking at variables and cases that could be made when a player’s name starts getting mentioned….and they will be mentioned, whether its now or 50 years from now.  First all, its easy to say someone wont get in because we are looking at present time, but history doesnt work that way….and as time goes on, there will be some considerations that we may not have deemed possible at the present time.

Its easy for someone to say a player doesnt have a chance, thats not what the threads were about.  It was about discussing accomplishments, strengths and weaknesses of players we watch.

Believe it or not, any player who has been a top-level player has ARGUMENTS (I didnt say justification).  If you go into court, there has to be a case made on both sides, if you dont have an argument, then there would be no need for a trial.   Its the strength of the arguments for or against that determine the outcome.  If you read the posts, most of the people you named that wouldnt get in, everyone said they wouldnt, its just the point that we are acknowleging that no matter how small a chance we can present arguments, regardless of how strong…because 50 years from now, some of these players will be mentioned and the commitees will use a lot of the arguments that were presented in this forum.

I am really SMH at how Peja has NO chance of making the HOF though.  Again if we are thinking about him right now, today, NBA only, of course not.  Some players tend to be "diefied" posthumously if you will..and much more revered dead than they were alive…especially if they die young.  Peja is top 5 in 3pts in the NBA and he has some MVP and POY awards from Europe.  He is not without accomplishments and I feel one day his case will be presented.  Whether he will get in or not is another story…but its easy for you to dismiss a player by giving them the HOF eye test RIGHT NOW, when in actuality their consideration wont be up for at least another 15-20 years.  We dont know what his post-playing career or ambassadorship will be like.

[surveParticipant]

now, as far as the HOF…once again, this is about entertainment and information.  I dont want to come on here and read the same old posts day in and day out saying the same old stuff.  Our HOF discussions were not to say everyone we mentioned had a chance to get in.  Its not that easy, that is one thing I will agree with you on.  We were looking at variables and cases that could be made when a player’s name starts getting mentioned….and they will be mentioned, whether its now or 50 years from now.  First all, its easy to say someone wont get in because we are looking at present time, but history doesnt work that way….and as time goes on, there will be some considerations that we may not have deemed possible at the present time.

Its easy for someone to say a player doesnt have a chance, thats not what the threads were about.  It was about discussing accomplishments, strengths and weaknesses of players we watch.

Believe it or not, any player who has been a top-level player has ARGUMENTS (I didnt say justification).  If you go into court, there has to be a case made on both sides, if you dont have an argument, then there would be no need for a trial.   Its the strength of the arguments for or against that determine the outcome.  If you read the posts, most of the people you named that wouldnt get in, everyone said they wouldnt, its just the point that we are acknowleging that no matter how small a chance we can present arguments, regardless of how strong…because 50 years from now, some of these players will be mentioned and the commitees will use a lot of the arguments that were presented in this forum.

I am really SMH at how Peja has NO chance of making the HOF though.  Again if we are thinking about him right now, today, NBA only, of course not.  Some players tend to be "diefied" posthumously if you will..and much more revered dead than they were alive…especially if they die young.  Peja is top 5 in 3pts in the NBA and he has some MVP and POY awards from Europe.  He is not without accomplishments and I feel one day his case will be presented.  Whether he will get in or not is another story…but its easy for you to dismiss a player by giving them the HOF eye test RIGHT NOW, when in actuality their consideration wont be up for at least another 15-20 years.  We dont know what his post-playing career or ambassadorship will be like.

[surveParticipant]

also, I think some good points were brought up about Marion, if he can continue to play at a good level and contribute to more championships, you still say he has no chance?  he does have a unique all-time stat line.

when it comes to Jamison…once again, if you are judging him today, right now, no, he wont get in….but lets think outside the box for a minute, because thats is what some of us do.  the person that made the case stated that he was a consistant player as far as points and rebounds throughout his career.  what if LBJ’s decision was to stay in Cleveland and the Cavs end up winning 2 or 3 championships with Jamison as the 2nd option?  is it still far fetched?  Its unlikely now, because he has no LBJ, thats not to say he wont end up on another contender and produce the same type of output that he has consistently and win some titles.  Its not far fetched. 

what you have to realize is, there are too many variables to say anything is absolute.  everyone has their own path.  we can have our opinions, but its ultimately the players path that will determine whether they will be All Star or HOF.  we dont determine the path.  again, forgive me for thinking outside of the box.

[surveParticipant]

also, I think some good points were brought up about Marion, if he can continue to play at a good level and contribute to more championships, you still say he has no chance?  he does have a unique all-time stat line.

when it comes to Jamison…once again, if you are judging him today, right now, no, he wont get in….but lets think outside the box for a minute, because thats is what some of us do.  the person that made the case stated that he was a consistant player as far as points and rebounds throughout his career.  what if LBJ’s decision was to stay in Cleveland and the Cavs end up winning 2 or 3 championships with Jamison as the 2nd option?  is it still far fetched?  Its unlikely now, because he has no LBJ, thats not to say he wont end up on another contender and produce the same type of output that he has consistently and win some titles.  Its not far fetched. 

what you have to realize is, there are too many variables to say anything is absolute.  everyone has their own path.  we can have our opinions, but its ultimately the players path that will determine whether they will be All Star or HOF.  we dont determine the path.  again, forgive me for thinking outside of the box.

[surveParticipant]

and we can go on and on about paths….

Marion’s best years were with Nash, but Marion has a championship now and Nash doesnt.  (not implying anything about Marion’s HOF probability)

Nash has 2 MVP awards, is he a better all-time player than J-Kidd, a key part of some NBA Finals teams and an NBA champion who has no MVP awards?  Great players, different paths.  Again, its variables…coming into the league, I know a lot of people that thought Kidd would be a league MVP one day, by the same accord, a lot thought Nash would be a bust.  Well, Kidd still turned out to be a better player, but they both took different paths and the outcomes as far as accomplishments were not necessarily as perceived/predicted.

One day Jimmer could be the future of Sactown (if its still there) and Tyreke could end up on someones bench…we just dont know.  

Just a little over a year ago the hype around the future of the Blazers was Oden and Roy.  There was very little mention of the underated Aldridge being the future.  Now in real time, the Blazers have to start building their team around the talents of L.A.  while the others have fallen in the background…severly and swiftly.

I can go on….

[surveParticipant]

and we can go on and on about paths….

Marion’s best years were with Nash, but Marion has a championship now and Nash doesnt.  (not implying anything about Marion’s HOF probability)

Nash has 2 MVP awards, is he a better all-time player than J-Kidd, a key part of some NBA Finals teams and an NBA champion who has no MVP awards?  Great players, different paths.  Again, its variables…coming into the league, I know a lot of people that thought Kidd would be a league MVP one day, by the same accord, a lot thought Nash would be a bust.  Well, Kidd still turned out to be a better player, but they both took different paths and the outcomes as far as accomplishments were not necessarily as perceived/predicted.

One day Jimmer could be the future of Sactown (if its still there) and Tyreke could end up on someones bench…we just dont know.  

Just a little over a year ago the hype around the future of the Blazers was Oden and Roy.  There was very little mention of the underated Aldridge being the future.  Now in real time, the Blazers have to start building their team around the talents of L.A.  while the others have fallen in the background…severly and swiftly.

I can go on….

[JoeWolf1]

 Totally with surve on that one, it’s not like we thought all those guys were getting in the HOF, it was just a fun topic to discuss. A lot of the time we were making a case for a guy and saying he still wouldn’t get it.  It was just a very good thread about some very good players with very good careers that most likely wont, but in some cases may get in the hall of fame.  I, in no way, interprited it as a bunch of hacks saying Antawn Jamison and Peja are locks for the HOF, but rather a bunch of knowledgable fans looking at stats and accolades and seeing where some unlikely names stack up against HOF players.

[JoeWolf1]

 Totally with surve on that one, it’s not like we thought all those guys were getting in the HOF, it was just a fun topic to discuss. A lot of the time we were making a case for a guy and saying he still wouldn’t get it.  It was just a very good thread about some very good players with very good careers that most likely wont, but in some cases may get in the hall of fame.  I, in no way, interprited it as a bunch of hacks saying Antawn Jamison and Peja are locks for the HOF, but rather a bunch of knowledgable fans looking at stats and accolades and seeing where some unlikely names stack up against HOF players.

[surveParticipant]

"Not really a fan. reminds me of a tougher Mike Dunleavey JR. honestly. If a guy like Mike Bibby never managed to make the all-star game nor a guy like LO, i sincerey doubt Hayward will."

Are you implying that Brad Miller (2 All Star selections) and Jamal Magloire (1x All Star) are better than Bibby or Odom?  Or that David Lee or Rashard Lewis in recent years have been better than Josh Smith?  Please be clear.

[surveParticipant]

"Not really a fan. reminds me of a tougher Mike Dunleavey JR. honestly. If a guy like Mike Bibby never managed to make the all-star game nor a guy like LO, i sincerey doubt Hayward will."

Are you implying that Brad Miller (2 All Star selections) and Jamal Magloire (1x All Star) are better than Bibby or Odom?  Or that David Lee or Rashard Lewis in recent years have been better than Josh Smith?  Please be clear.

[surveParticipant]

spot on, that is EXACTLY what was going on in those threads.  it was funny because I said Fisher had a snowball’s chance in hell, when TOL23 presented a whole other angle with Fisher being president of the NBPA.  that is not saying he will get in folks, but its discussions like that that show their is alot more to things than meets the eye or that may or may not be relevant at the current time.

[surveParticipant]

spot on, that is EXACTLY what was going on in those threads.  it was funny because I said Fisher had a snowball’s chance in hell, when TOL23 presented a whole other angle with Fisher being president of the NBPA.  that is not saying he will get in folks, but its discussions like that that show their is alot more to things than meets the eye or that may or may not be relevant at the current time.

[rileymcshea3Participant]

Hey Surve I am sorry you waisted so much time on writing all that stuff because im sorry but basically all the stuff you think I said was WRONG and because of that im going to have to take my time to prove you wrong and correct your mistakes

SO LET ME SAY THIS I know this forum is for information and entertainment, that’s why I joined and I dont need you tell me this because I already knew that.

I also obviously know that no one here knows it all.Now people can express there opininion and say "This guy Michael Jordan is gonna be the greatest" and then 20 years later he happens to be right but that doesnt mean he knew for sure that was gonna happen.

Now I dont know if you have trouble reading or short term memory but I NEVER  said that thread that IIRC start (the one about Haywodd being a allstar) was far fetched .I even said that I do think that Gordon Haywood would make a couple all star games.I also just dont understand were you and Raybeas are getting this information about me saying that he has no chance of making an all star game or that he wont improve at all because I once again said that I think he has a good chance of making a couple of all star games. But this is something I didnt say and I will say it now , "I am as big of a Gordon Haywood fan as anyone else is , I like his game, I like his potential and I hope the best for him".But yes he would have to be on those players levels and contribute as much as they do and when you said teams success I already said one of the factors that would help his chances of making an all star game is his teams record and if I do recall Team success=Teams record 

I do agree with your HoF arguement but I said they have LIKE no chance.I didnt say they have absolutely no chance I said they have LIKE no chance which is about a 1-10% chance of making it, not a 0% chance. SO  once again you are wrong .I already know all the stats and accolades about Marion and Peja because they talk about them alot during Mavs game , and I watched every Mavs game this year because I am from the DFW and I  am a big Mavs fan so you dont have to give me there information. I also dont really care if you think outside the box. I think outside the box all the time( as you can see by my unicorn) and I think alot of other people do it also so your not doing anything different ,odd , or rude so there is no need to forgive you.
 

So surve you can continue to go and i will continue to prove you wrong ,your choice.

[rileymcshea3Participant]

Hey Surve I am sorry you waisted so much time on writing all that stuff because im sorry but basically all the stuff you think I said was WRONG and because of that im going to have to take my time to prove you wrong and correct your mistakes

SO LET ME SAY THIS I know this forum is for information and entertainment, that’s why I joined and I dont need you tell me this because I already knew that.

I also obviously know that no one here knows it all.Now people can express there opininion and say "This guy Michael Jordan is gonna be the greatest" and then 20 years later he happens to be right but that doesnt mean he knew for sure that was gonna happen.

Now I dont know if you have trouble reading or short term memory but I NEVER  said that thread that IIRC start (the one about Haywodd being a allstar) was far fetched .I even said that I do think that Gordon Haywood would make a couple all star games.I also just dont understand were you and Raybeas are getting this information about me saying that he has no chance of making an all star game or that he wont improve at all because I once again said that I think he has a good chance of making a couple of all star games. But this is something I didnt say and I will say it now , "I am as big of a Gordon Haywood fan as anyone else is , I like his game, I like his potential and I hope the best for him".But yes he would have to be on those players levels and contribute as much as they do and when you said teams success I already said one of the factors that would help his chances of making an all star game is his teams record and if I do recall Team success=Teams record 

I do agree with your HoF arguement but I said they have LIKE no chance.I didnt say they have absolutely no chance I said they have LIKE no chance which is about a 1-10% chance of making it, not a 0% chance. SO  once again you are wrong .I already know all the stats and accolades about Marion and Peja because they talk about them alot during Mavs game , and I watched every Mavs game this year because I am from the DFW and I  am a big Mavs fan so you dont have to give me there information. I also dont really care if you think outside the box. I think outside the box all the time( as you can see by my unicorn) and I think alot of other people do it also so your not doing anything different ,odd , or rude so there is no need to forgive you.
 

So surve you can continue to go and i will continue to prove you wrong ,your choice.

[rileymcshea3Participant]

Hey Surve I am sorry you waisted so much time on writing all that stuff because im sorry but basically all the stuff you think I said was WRONG and because of that im going to have to take my time to prove you wrong and correct your mistakes

SO LET ME SAY THIS I know this forum is for information and entertainment, that’s why I joined and I dont need you tell me this because I already knew that.

I also obviously know that no one here knows it all.Now people can express there opininion and say "This guy Michael Jordan is gonna be the greatest" and then 20 years later he happens to be right but that doesnt mean he knew for sure that was gonna happen.

Now I dont know if you have trouble reading or short term memory but I NEVER  said that thread that IIRC start (the one about Haywodd being a allstar) was far fetched .I even said that I do think that Gordon Haywood would make a couple all star games.I also just dont understand were you and Raybeas are getting this information about me saying that he has no chance of making an all star game or that he wont improve at all because I once again said that I think he has a good chance of making a couple of all star games. But this is something I didnt say and I will say it now , "I am as big of a Gordon Haywood fan as anyone else is , I like his game, I like his potential and I hope the best for him".But yes he would have to be on those players levels and contribute as much as they do and when you said teams success I already said one of the factors that would help his chances of making an all star game is his teams record and if I do recall Team success=Teams record 

I do agree with your HoF arguement but I said they have LIKE no chance.I didnt say they have absolutely no chance I said they have LIKE no chance which is about a 1-10% chance of making it, not a 0% chance. SO  once again you are wrong .I already know all the stats and accolades about Marion and Peja because they talk about them alot during Mavs game , and I watched every Mavs game this year because I am from the DFW and I  am a big Mavs fan so you dont have to give me there information. I also dont really care if you think outside the box. I think outside the box all the time( as you can see by my unicorn) and I think alot of other people do it also so your not doing anything different ,odd , or rude so there is no need to forgive you.
 

So surve you can continue to go and i will continue to prove you wrong ,your choice.

[surveParticipant]

And as raybeas says, its ignorant to think a guy who has played one season has no shot of making an All-Star team (not All-NBA). To assume that is utterly ridiculous. We are saying that to WHOEVER thinks like this.

I never called your name, and actually wasnt referring to you, but if you fit into the WHOEVER catagory, then it is easy to see why you feel I was calling you out…and only proof that you WERE thinking that way in the first place. 

Now I dont know if you have trouble reading or short term memory but I NEVER said that thread that IIRC start (the one about Haywodd being a allstar) was far fetched .

Again, I was not referring to you, you started the thread but there were other posts here.  When did I mention your name specifically?

I didnt have a problem with anything you posted, except maybe this statement….

Some people think he is gonna be this yearly all star guy well your wrong.

I dont think we know enough about him to even begin to speculate that notion.

So easy pal, either you give yourself way too much credit for being targeted or you take offense too easily….because hardly anything I said was even directed at you.

[surveParticipant]

And as raybeas says, its ignorant to think a guy who has played one season has no shot of making an All-Star team (not All-NBA). To assume that is utterly ridiculous. We are saying that to WHOEVER thinks like this.

I never called your name, and actually wasnt referring to you, but if you fit into the WHOEVER catagory, then it is easy to see why you feel I was calling you out…and only proof that you WERE thinking that way in the first place. 

Now I dont know if you have trouble reading or short term memory but I NEVER said that thread that IIRC start (the one about Haywodd being a allstar) was far fetched .

Again, I was not referring to you, you started the thread but there were other posts here.  When did I mention your name specifically?

I didnt have a problem with anything you posted, except maybe this statement….

Some people think he is gonna be this yearly all star guy well your wrong.

I dont think we know enough about him to even begin to speculate that notion.

So easy pal, either you give yourself way too much credit for being targeted or you take offense too easily….because hardly anything I said was even directed at you.

[surveParticipant]

And as raybeas says, its ignorant to think a guy who has played one season has no shot of making an All-Star team (not All-NBA). To assume that is utterly ridiculous. We are saying that to WHOEVER thinks like this.

I never called your name, and actually wasnt referring to you, but if you fit into the WHOEVER catagory, then it is easy to see why you feel I was calling you out…and only proof that you WERE thinking that way in the first place. 

Now I dont know if you have trouble reading or short term memory but I NEVER said that thread that IIRC start (the one about Haywodd being a allstar) was far fetched .

Again, I was not referring to you, you started the thread but there were other posts here.  When did I mention your name specifically?

I didnt have a problem with anything you posted, except maybe this statement….

Some people think he is gonna be this yearly all star guy well your wrong.

I dont think we know enough about him to even begin to speculate that notion.

So easy pal, either you give yourself way too much credit for being targeted or you take offense too easily….because hardly anything I said was even directed at you.

[rileymcshea3Participant]

 OK my bad I thought you were 

[rileymcshea3Participant]

 OK my bad I thought you were 

[rileymcshea3Participant]

 OK my bad I thought you were 

[iguapops420Participant]

 @ Surve, you picked out 2 players from one of the absolute most shalow positions of the past 10 years as your example. We’re talking about Gordon HAyward, a SF who isn’t what I would call an athlete. In a L DOMINATED by athletic SF’s, such as LBJ, Durant,Rudy Gay,Nicolas Batum,Andre Iguodala,Danny Granger,Paul George, etc. etc. The SF position is just FAR too stacked in this newly evolving league of athleticism for a guy like Gordon to make an All-Star team. 

20 years ago? Yes,all-star chances would have been far more likely, but IMO, he’s just got too many physical flaws to make it these days.

So, there is me being more clear for you my brother.

[iguapops420Participant]

 @ Surve, you picked out 2 players from one of the absolute most shalow positions of the past 10 years as your example. We’re talking about Gordon HAyward, a SF who isn’t what I would call an athlete. In a L DOMINATED by athletic SF’s, such as LBJ, Durant,Rudy Gay,Nicolas Batum,Andre Iguodala,Danny Granger,Paul George, etc. etc. The SF position is just FAR too stacked in this newly evolving league of athleticism for a guy like Gordon to make an All-Star team. 

20 years ago? Yes,all-star chances would have been far more likely, but IMO, he’s just got too many physical flaws to make it these days.

So, there is me being more clear for you my brother.

[iguapops420Participant]

 @ Surve, you picked out 2 players from one of the absolute most shalow positions of the past 10 years as your example. We’re talking about Gordon HAyward, a SF who isn’t what I would call an athlete. In a L DOMINATED by athletic SF’s, such as LBJ, Durant,Rudy Gay,Nicolas Batum,Andre Iguodala,Danny Granger,Paul George, etc. etc. The SF position is just FAR too stacked in this newly evolving league of athleticism for a guy like Gordon to make an All-Star team. 

20 years ago? Yes,all-star chances would have been far more likely, but IMO, he’s just got too many physical flaws to make it these days.

So, there is me being more clear for you my brother.

[Author]

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