[TRC1991Participant]

I don’t follow the 76ers (thank the Lord) more than just catching up on the latest stupid acts that Sam Hinkie does, but I have a question for the die-hard 6ers fans…

1) Have you committed to "the process"? …which is essentially Sam Hinkie acting as a 1-man renegade, slicing and dicing his roster with the worst of them…

2) How much more time, legitimately, does he have to prove himself?

3) What has been your favorite Sam Hinkie move so far?

4) What has been the one move, or series of related moves, that has made your blood boil more than anything?

I know, tough to pick just one…

Was it trading the rookie of the year PG who is now a starter on a top 5 eastern conference team? ..

Was it passing over and over and over and over again on guards in order to take European bigs only to leave Brett Brown with Isaiah Canaan and Jordan McRae as his potential starting back court? …

Was it dumping Elfrid Payton for a guy who won’t come over for another 2 years, and who plays the same position as the guy taken in front of him in that very draft? …

Was it any of these God Awful, abominable, fireable offenses, or have their been a few I’ve missed?

 

Thanks

[Rip255]

I’ve thought about what Philly is doing long and hard, and it finally dawned on me. There is a strange psychology amongst Philly fans that attracts them to this "process" and unlikely possibility of success.

Normal people like you and me think rationally and understand that when it comes to winning in the NBA there is more than 1 way to skin a cat. But Philly fans are different. They’re actually addicted to losing. It is known in Psychology circles as "Jonah Complex" and is a very real thing. 

It involves a combination of being addicted to hope, but also afraid of success. They rationalise their behaviour (like all addicts) by saying they fear the "dreaded 8th seed". Once again, remember that we aren’t dealing with rational people here. 

Another aspects of Jonah Complex is running away from factors that might encourage success. This is why they traded guys like MCW and intentionally draft injured players. It gives them great hope, and keeps the chances of winning just far enough out of reach to be comfortable. 

Believe it or not, people suffering from this complex constitute a significant part of the population. As Philly is the only team in world sports that is pro-actively sabotaging any chance of success, they’ve got a monopoly on Jonah Complex sufferers. $$$$$

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

[Rip255]

I’ve thought about what Philly is doing long and hard, and it finally dawned on me. There is a strange psychology amongst Philly fans that attracts them to this "process" and unlikely possibility of success.

Normal people like you and me think rationally and understand that when it comes to winning in the NBA there is more than 1 way to skin a cat. But Philly fans are different. They’re actually addicted to losing. It is known in Psychology circles as "Jonah Complex" and is a very real thing. 

It involves a combination of being addicted to hope, but also afraid of success. They rationalise their behaviour (like all addicts) by saying they fear the "dreaded 8th seed". Once again, remember that we aren’t dealing with rational people here. 

Another aspects of Jonah Complex is running away from factors that might encourage success. This is why they traded guys like MCW and intentionally draft injured players. It gives them great hope, and keeps the chances of winning just far enough out of reach to be comfortable. 

Believe it or not, people suffering from this complex constitute a significant part of the population. As Philly is the only team in world sports that is pro-actively sabotaging any chance of success, they’ve got a monopoly on Jonah Complex sufferers. $$$$$

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

[NBAjunkie81Participant]

 attack of Phila fans… This is known as Laziness disguised as an Intellectual argument… (I know it’s long but read the whole thing)…  I could care less about the Sixers or any Phila team or fan… However, the NBA system which punishes teams for committing to players & trying to win sickens me. It’s like No other League in the World… Teams have been tanking & / or exploiting weaker Franchises for Decades while the League office w/ Corporate partners like Abc /ESPN sits idly by… They have watered down this great sport through expansion to the point where each year only 2 or 3 teams have a real chance to win… That being said, Phila is simply following the model of Golden State Avg 27 wins from 2009 – 2012, OKC 25 wins 2005 – 2007 & even the Spurs tanked to get a crack at Tim Duncan & Believe me had they not acquired Duncan NO ONE would be refering to Popovich as a Genius… As far as the Sixers, Any criticism of them must be accompanied by a "Better Plan" – Sam Hinkie was hired 26 months ago!!! The Bucks you referenced as a "Top 5 team in the Eastern Conference" achieved a record of 41 – 41 in 2014/15′ that was the Bucks FIRST NON – losing (notice I didn’t say winning) season in a DECADE… Utah, the other darling of the NBA rebuild just finshed their SEVENTH straight LOSING season… & MCW in a poll of ALL 30 NBA GM’s was not ranked in the TOP 30 NBA PG’s which means he was ranked BELOW some Back ups… Philadelphia – the team Everyone luvs to Ish on lately – was ONE win away from the Conference Finals against Miami & Lebron just THREE years ago (2012)… Entering the 2012/13′ Season Many experts, analysts & pundits picked Phila to Easily win the Atlantic Division & Challange Indiana as the 2nd best team in the Conference… Does ANYONE remember this or did I imagine it all??? In fact, that summer a Monster 4 team trade occurred that would completely change the fortunes of several teams… but two of them travelled in Completely different directions – Golden State – coming off their FOURTH STRAIGHT 20 something win season was an Afterthought when they acquired Philly’s BEST player Andre Igudola & Phila put all their hopes in Andrew Bynum as they gave away Igudola AND a 20 pt 10 reb Starting NBA center Nic Vucevick (Orlando) AND their 2012 AND 2017 First Round draft choices!!! Doeg Collins ALSO traded Phila 2015 First round pick for NBA legend ARNOTT MOULTRY (Celtics)… So let’s review – June of 2012 Phila had a Starting line up of Jrue Holiday (all star), Evan Turner (scrub but passable NBA starter), Thad Young (18 & 8 very good NBA starter), Andre Igudola (all star) & Nic Vucevic (20 & 10 NBA starting Center)… Just one month Later in July of 2012 Phila LOST Vucevick & Igudola along w/ THREE of the team’s next FIVE 1st round picks… So for the genius’ drinking that espn Kool Aide thrashing Phila at every turn, one must ask themselves "WHY"??? Why is ESPN – media Giant, NBA partner – suddenly focused on Ishing all over this Franchise that was Utterly decimated by ONE trade…??? Milwaukee has ONE playoff SERIES win in 26 seasons – TWENTY-SIX! Orlando just completed it’s 4th str8 losing season – the last 3 years Orlando won 23, 20 & 25 WINS – that’s an Average of 22.5 Wins per season for THREE years!!! Where is the outrage??? Cleveland in the 4 years w/o Lebron won the Draft Lottery 3 TIMES!!! & they won 19, 21, 24 & 33 wins – not a peep… Minnesota won 44 games ELEVEN years ago, they just completed their 11th str8 LOSING Season!! included in that stretch were FIVE years of 26, 24, 22, 17 & 15 win SEASONS! So let’s go back to Phila who won 34 games in 2013 after losing all that Talent & Bynum – who was coming of 4 straight outstanding years & 2012 was his BEST year Avg 19 pts 12 reb 2 blocks & 56% FG% while Starting 77 games (reg season & playoffs) & they had the # 11 pick in the 2013 Lottery… When they had to cut ties w/ Bynum that May & Collins realized he’s just given away the Nucleus of the Franchise for NOTHING – he quit reportedly on the verge of a nervous breakdown… So for all you posters kicking this team around, Let’s pretend Phila calls YOU & says we want you to be the NEW GM – it’s May of 2012, the Draft is in ONE month – you have Three decent players 6’5” (Young, Turner, Holliday) signed to long term guarenteed contracts, the # 11 pick in the Draft but over you have NO 2015 or 2017 First round pick & the guy you drafted in 2012 was traded as well – WHAT"S YOUR GAME PLAN??? If anyone look into what Hinkie has actually done in Just 26 months, it’s quite remarkable…. Remember the pick they just used to Draft Super Prospect Jahlil Okafor was NOT there 2 years ago… For those 3 somewhat decent players – Hinkie managed to turn them into FOUR Lottery picks – 4! He drafted MCW ( a decent prospect ) played him tons of minutes in an up tempo style but didn;t fool most GM’s that MCW can’t defend anyone "on ball" (anyone watch what D-Rose did to him last May?), can’t Shoot a lick, & hogs the ball for the Entire possession before he does Not pass the Ball & shoots himself – they traded THAT guy for a LOTTERY pick (Lakers) – If that pick turns into Troy Murray or malik Pope, will anyone be laughing then??? For Jrue Holiday Hinkie acquired Nerlens Noel (the #1 prospect in the 2013 Draft, who just posted IDENTICAL rookie stats to Uni-brow Davis), Point 4, 6’10 prospect Dario Saric & the return of their 2017 first round pick. For Thad Young, Phila recieved a Minnesota 1st round pick. B/c they cleaned out their roster they were able to take Salary dumps to acquire resources like draft picks, young players & swap rights for NOTHING… Sacramento just GAVE Phila #8 Lottery pick Nik Stauskus (2014) & Swap Right for the next TWO seasons! So if Sacramento blows up & wins the Lottery in 2016 AND 2017, they must Give Phila Both those picks & they get a Lottery talent Combo Guard / wing for Nothing… A good amount of scouts believe they acquired THE BEST propsect in Each of the last 3 Drafts (Okafor, Embiid & Noel)… From Zero 1st round picks in 2 of the next 4 years when Hinkie took over, Phila ended up w/ TWO lottery picks in 2013, TWO Lottery picks in 2014, Okafor in 2015 (they originally had NO pick), FOUR 1st round picks in 2016 (most likely 2 Lottery), Two 1st rounders in 2017, 2018 & 2019… Next season they will Draft FOUR 1st rounders & start Okafor, Noel, Stauskus, Saric & Embiid – so in Only 36 months (at that point) Phila will be Literally overflowing w/ talent. They will boast SEVEN Lottery picks & THREE other 1st rounders none older than the 2013 Draft – that is an INSANE haul of talent in the time span… And I’m just reviewing surface details… When you get into how Hinkie manipulated their situation to keep that 2015 Lotteyr pick that was supposed to go to the Celtics & the Swap rights w/ Sacramento & how he has Floated Mis-information during the Draft (like floating an MCW trade rumor right before picking #10 at the 2014 Draft & making Orlando panic b/c they wanted Elfin Payton, forcing Orlando to give BACK the Sixer’s 2017 1st round pick) & you can see how he has capityalized on GM’s that are thinking Only short term & do NOT care about building a championship level team, it’s truly amazing… So before you criticize or use some goofy dime store pop psychology, actually Look into the situation & ask WHY the whole League & ESPN is whining about Phila – a team that is NOT even in the Bottom 5 for losing % over the last 5 years when normally losing teams are INVISIBLE & you start to realize that the WHOLE League is Scared to death of what this little weirdo is building in Phila…. Apologies for the length & for any typos…

[NBAjunkie81Participant]

 attack of Phila fans… This is known as Laziness disguised as an Intellectual argument… (I know it’s long but read the whole thing)…  I could care less about the Sixers or any Phila team or fan… However, the NBA system which punishes teams for committing to players & trying to win sickens me. It’s like No other League in the World… Teams have been tanking & / or exploiting weaker Franchises for Decades while the League office w/ Corporate partners like Abc /ESPN sits idly by… They have watered down this great sport through expansion to the point where each year only 2 or 3 teams have a real chance to win… That being said, Phila is simply following the model of Golden State Avg 27 wins from 2009 – 2012, OKC 25 wins 2005 – 2007 & even the Spurs tanked to get a crack at Tim Duncan & Believe me had they not acquired Duncan NO ONE would be refering to Popovich as a Genius… As far as the Sixers, Any criticism of them must be accompanied by a "Better Plan" – Sam Hinkie was hired 26 months ago!!! The Bucks you referenced as a "Top 5 team in the Eastern Conference" achieved a record of 41 – 41 in 2014/15′ that was the Bucks FIRST NON – losing (notice I didn’t say winning) season in a DECADE… Utah, the other darling of the NBA rebuild just finshed their SEVENTH straight LOSING season… & MCW in a poll of ALL 30 NBA GM’s was not ranked in the TOP 30 NBA PG’s which means he was ranked BELOW some Back ups… Philadelphia – the team Everyone luvs to Ish on lately – was ONE win away from the Conference Finals against Miami & Lebron just THREE years ago (2012)… Entering the 2012/13′ Season Many experts, analysts & pundits picked Phila to Easily win the Atlantic Division & Challange Indiana as the 2nd best team in the Conference… Does ANYONE remember this or did I imagine it all??? In fact, that summer a Monster 4 team trade occurred that would completely change the fortunes of several teams… but two of them travelled in Completely different directions – Golden State – coming off their FOURTH STRAIGHT 20 something win season was an Afterthought when they acquired Philly’s BEST player Andre Igudola & Phila put all their hopes in Andrew Bynum as they gave away Igudola AND a 20 pt 10 reb Starting NBA center Nic Vucevick (Orlando) AND their 2012 AND 2017 First Round draft choices!!! Doeg Collins ALSO traded Phila 2015 First round pick for NBA legend ARNOTT MOULTRY (Celtics)… So let’s review – June of 2012 Phila had a Starting line up of Jrue Holiday (all star), Evan Turner (scrub but passable NBA starter), Thad Young (18 & 8 very good NBA starter), Andre Igudola (all star) & Nic Vucevic (20 & 10 NBA starting Center)… Just one month Later in July of 2012 Phila LOST Vucevick & Igudola along w/ THREE of the team’s next FIVE 1st round picks… So for the genius’ drinking that espn Kool Aide thrashing Phila at every turn, one must ask themselves "WHY"??? Why is ESPN – media Giant, NBA partner – suddenly focused on Ishing all over this Franchise that was Utterly decimated by ONE trade…??? Milwaukee has ONE playoff SERIES win in 26 seasons – TWENTY-SIX! Orlando just completed it’s 4th str8 losing season – the last 3 years Orlando won 23, 20 & 25 WINS – that’s an Average of 22.5 Wins per season for THREE years!!! Where is the outrage??? Cleveland in the 4 years w/o Lebron won the Draft Lottery 3 TIMES!!! & they won 19, 21, 24 & 33 wins – not a peep… Minnesota won 44 games ELEVEN years ago, they just completed their 11th str8 LOSING Season!! included in that stretch were FIVE years of 26, 24, 22, 17 & 15 win SEASONS! So let’s go back to Phila who won 34 games in 2013 after losing all that Talent & Bynum – who was coming of 4 straight outstanding years & 2012 was his BEST year Avg 19 pts 12 reb 2 blocks & 56% FG% while Starting 77 games (reg season & playoffs) & they had the # 11 pick in the 2013 Lottery… When they had to cut ties w/ Bynum that May & Collins realized he’s just given away the Nucleus of the Franchise for NOTHING – he quit reportedly on the verge of a nervous breakdown… So for all you posters kicking this team around, Let’s pretend Phila calls YOU & says we want you to be the NEW GM – it’s May of 2012, the Draft is in ONE month – you have Three decent players 6’5” (Young, Turner, Holliday) signed to long term guarenteed contracts, the # 11 pick in the Draft but over you have NO 2015 or 2017 First round pick & the guy you drafted in 2012 was traded as well – WHAT"S YOUR GAME PLAN??? If anyone look into what Hinkie has actually done in Just 26 months, it’s quite remarkable…. Remember the pick they just used to Draft Super Prospect Jahlil Okafor was NOT there 2 years ago… For those 3 somewhat decent players – Hinkie managed to turn them into FOUR Lottery picks – 4! He drafted MCW ( a decent prospect ) played him tons of minutes in an up tempo style but didn;t fool most GM’s that MCW can’t defend anyone "on ball" (anyone watch what D-Rose did to him last May?), can’t Shoot a lick, & hogs the ball for the Entire possession before he does Not pass the Ball & shoots himself – they traded THAT guy for a LOTTERY pick (Lakers) – If that pick turns into Troy Murray or malik Pope, will anyone be laughing then??? For Jrue Holiday Hinkie acquired Nerlens Noel (the #1 prospect in the 2013 Draft, who just posted IDENTICAL rookie stats to Uni-brow Davis), Point 4, 6’10 prospect Dario Saric & the return of their 2017 first round pick. For Thad Young, Phila recieved a Minnesota 1st round pick. B/c they cleaned out their roster they were able to take Salary dumps to acquire resources like draft picks, young players & swap rights for NOTHING… Sacramento just GAVE Phila #8 Lottery pick Nik Stauskus (2014) & Swap Right for the next TWO seasons! So if Sacramento blows up & wins the Lottery in 2016 AND 2017, they must Give Phila Both those picks & they get a Lottery talent Combo Guard / wing for Nothing… A good amount of scouts believe they acquired THE BEST propsect in Each of the last 3 Drafts (Okafor, Embiid & Noel)… From Zero 1st round picks in 2 of the next 4 years when Hinkie took over, Phila ended up w/ TWO lottery picks in 2013, TWO Lottery picks in 2014, Okafor in 2015 (they originally had NO pick), FOUR 1st round picks in 2016 (most likely 2 Lottery), Two 1st rounders in 2017, 2018 & 2019… Next season they will Draft FOUR 1st rounders & start Okafor, Noel, Stauskus, Saric & Embiid – so in Only 36 months (at that point) Phila will be Literally overflowing w/ talent. They will boast SEVEN Lottery picks & THREE other 1st rounders none older than the 2013 Draft – that is an INSANE haul of talent in the time span… And I’m just reviewing surface details… When you get into how Hinkie manipulated their situation to keep that 2015 Lotteyr pick that was supposed to go to the Celtics & the Swap rights w/ Sacramento & how he has Floated Mis-information during the Draft (like floating an MCW trade rumor right before picking #10 at the 2014 Draft & making Orlando panic b/c they wanted Elfin Payton, forcing Orlando to give BACK the Sixer’s 2017 1st round pick) & you can see how he has capityalized on GM’s that are thinking Only short term & do NOT care about building a championship level team, it’s truly amazing… So before you criticize or use some goofy dime store pop psychology, actually Look into the situation & ask WHY the whole League & ESPN is whining about Phila – a team that is NOT even in the Bottom 5 for losing % over the last 5 years when normally losing teams are INVISIBLE & you start to realize that the WHOLE League is Scared to death of what this little weirdo is building in Phila…. Apologies for the length & for any typos…

[NBAjunkie81Participant]

 I often learn something & get new & interesting info – even what you wrote was interesting, but I believe if you do some background research on the info the media outlets attacking this team are ommitting, you will learn that what you wrote, while interesting, hardly applies to this situation…

[NBAjunkie81Participant]

 I often learn something & get new & interesting info – even what you wrote was interesting, but I believe if you do some background research on the info the media outlets attacking this team are ommitting, you will learn that what you wrote, while interesting, hardly applies to this situation…

[adumParticipant]

 Mine is when he caught feelings with KJ Mcdaniels and traded him because he signed a 1 yr contract.

He seems emotional and hasn’t proven anything and at the rate he’s going I don’t think players would want to sign in philly.

Even if they are successful.

[adumParticipant]

 Mine is when he caught feelings with KJ Mcdaniels and traded him because he signed a 1 yr contract.

He seems emotional and hasn’t proven anything and at the rate he’s going I don’t think players would want to sign in philly.

Even if they are successful.

[NBAjunkie81Participant]

 The Bucks working on their 11th str8 losing season called an offered a Lottery pick for Barely NBA level pg MCW – Of course Hinkie said yes before the Bucks could come to their sense… But then he needed a PG so he traded McDaniels – a wing – to Houston for PG prospect Isaiah Canaan… Now how is the emotional? Seems prudent to me – at least the thinking – I don;t like Canaan at all but he was drafted at the EXACT same spot as McDaniel only one year earlier in 2013… I’m sure he’d have given MCW AND McDaniel away for that Lakers Lottery pick – as would just about Every other GM in the NBA… McDaniel – who you seem to think is something special proceeded to warm the bench for Houston even though they suffered a Rash of injuries during their playoff run and were Desperate for minutes, McDaniels could NOT even get on the floor… So I like McDaniels a little bit as an energy guy off the bench or a defensive stopper at some point, but when a team has a chance at a Lottery pick, you move people… To put this in perspective Denver was offering All Star level PG Ty Lawson to ANY team who wanted him at the 2015 NBA Draft for their First Round pick. Golden State could have had Lawson for the # 30 pick but EVERY team turned them down – that’s how Valuable those # 1 picks are & the Lakers look awful so that pick which is top 3 protected in 2016 & 17 and Unprotected in 2018 could turn into something Very special – we’ll see… But trades EXACTLY like this are how L.A. acquired Magic Johnson (Cleveland traded their 1980 #1 pick to the Lakers for Don Ford in 1977 – DON FORD!!!) so someday we may look back at Phila trading Average AT BEST pg MCW for a future Hall of Famer… Either way the Bucks, coming off TEN str8 losing seasons were Crazy to trade that pick just to make the Playoffs as a # 7 seed …

[NBAjunkie81Participant]

 The Bucks working on their 11th str8 losing season called an offered a Lottery pick for Barely NBA level pg MCW – Of course Hinkie said yes before the Bucks could come to their sense… But then he needed a PG so he traded McDaniels – a wing – to Houston for PG prospect Isaiah Canaan… Now how is the emotional? Seems prudent to me – at least the thinking – I don;t like Canaan at all but he was drafted at the EXACT same spot as McDaniel only one year earlier in 2013… I’m sure he’d have given MCW AND McDaniel away for that Lakers Lottery pick – as would just about Every other GM in the NBA… McDaniel – who you seem to think is something special proceeded to warm the bench for Houston even though they suffered a Rash of injuries during their playoff run and were Desperate for minutes, McDaniels could NOT even get on the floor… So I like McDaniels a little bit as an energy guy off the bench or a defensive stopper at some point, but when a team has a chance at a Lottery pick, you move people… To put this in perspective Denver was offering All Star level PG Ty Lawson to ANY team who wanted him at the 2015 NBA Draft for their First Round pick. Golden State could have had Lawson for the # 30 pick but EVERY team turned them down – that’s how Valuable those # 1 picks are & the Lakers look awful so that pick which is top 3 protected in 2016 & 17 and Unprotected in 2018 could turn into something Very special – we’ll see… But trades EXACTLY like this are how L.A. acquired Magic Johnson (Cleveland traded their 1980 #1 pick to the Lakers for Don Ford in 1977 – DON FORD!!!) so someday we may look back at Phila trading Average AT BEST pg MCW for a future Hall of Famer… Either way the Bucks, coming off TEN str8 losing seasons were Crazy to trade that pick just to make the Playoffs as a # 7 seed …

[froggyParticipant]

Hinkie’s strategy is at best risky, but philadelphia looks better now than they were 3-4 years ago. I think they got extremely lucky with very high draft picks. Now I hope they will stop tanking and start building with the players they have, maybe add some shooting and creators. They’re not far from being able to compete for a playoff spot in the east. 

[froggyParticipant]

Hinkie’s strategy is at best risky, but philadelphia looks better now than they were 3-4 years ago. I think they got extremely lucky with very high draft picks. Now I hope they will stop tanking and start building with the players they have, maybe add some shooting and creators. They’re not far from being able to compete for a playoff spot in the east. 

[holefillers1Participant]

 If you don’t follow the Sixers then all you get is the natioalistic views of the team.  Ignorant people commenting like Jorge Sodano who say things like everyone hates this or no one knows anymore about that. Ignorance is bliss.  I just can’t figure out why you would waste time writing about it.

[holefillers1Participant]

 If you don’t follow the Sixers then all you get is the natioalistic views of the team.  Ignorant people commenting like Jorge Sodano who say things like everyone hates this or no one knows anymore about that. Ignorance is bliss.  I just can’t figure out why you would waste time writing about it.

[wonzi_bellsParticipant]

 I don’t know how you can judge this process, when this process is explicitly meant to be judged five years down the road.

It’s the weird that people were jumping on them in year 1 and 2, like give it time, then make you’re reactions. 

And I’ve always said if you look at most of the moves individually, most wouldn’t either have a problem with it or they’d actually like it. It when you look at everything at whole where you see they’re intentionally losing but if they’re actually constantly trying to reach the max value possible, whether down the road or not, I’m fine with it and Hinke to me has done that.

Everyone wants to package the two injured picks/draft-and-stash/drafting bigs narrative all in one. I think it should be evaluated individually,

Like Carter-Williams being a starter on a playoff team or being the rookie of the year once upon a time seems arbitrary. You could a rookie of the year in a bad class (which he was), you could be rookie of the year in an offense that revolves around yourself (which he was) and plenty of randoms have been starters on playoff teams. Doesn’t answer the question of do you think you can get a better player out of this one?

It’s hard to judge eveything in the present, when everything is geared towards the future.

[wonzi_bellsParticipant]

 I don’t know how you can judge this process, when this process is explicitly meant to be judged five years down the road.

It’s the weird that people were jumping on them in year 1 and 2, like give it time, then make you’re reactions. 

And I’ve always said if you look at most of the moves individually, most wouldn’t either have a problem with it or they’d actually like it. It when you look at everything at whole where you see they’re intentionally losing but if they’re actually constantly trying to reach the max value possible, whether down the road or not, I’m fine with it and Hinke to me has done that.

Everyone wants to package the two injured picks/draft-and-stash/drafting bigs narrative all in one. I think it should be evaluated individually,

Like Carter-Williams being a starter on a playoff team or being the rookie of the year once upon a time seems arbitrary. You could a rookie of the year in a bad class (which he was), you could be rookie of the year in an offense that revolves around yourself (which he was) and plenty of randoms have been starters on playoff teams. Doesn’t answer the question of do you think you can get a better player out of this one?

It’s hard to judge eveything in the present, when everything is geared towards the future.

[ballislyfe25Participant]

It’s totally fair to doubt the process but I’m in support of it and intrigued by it (not a Sixers fan). 

Hinkie has passed over guards for bigs in the drafts because he feels the bigs are better players in a vacuum. In hindsight, he could have taken Dante Exum over Embiid but, as has been said 100 times, Embiid was the top prospect of a very strong draft class and the closest thing we’ve seen to Hakeem Olajuwon in a prospect. He’s also doing the smartest thing possible by holding out Embiid and not rushing him back. Yes, he may not ever play but he could also recover well and end up becoming the player we all envisioned. The guy is so young. Maybe he takes D’Angelo Russell over Jahlil if he had the chance. Passing over Elfrid Payton for Dario Saric is a perfectly defensible move. Point guards who can’t shoot from deep or shoot free throws aren’t desired anymore, but the overriding argument from Hinkie’s perspective is that Saric is simply a better player. He can shoot, handle, play both forward spots, is aggressive, and 6’10. This kid is developing nicely overseas and will form a great 3-big rotation with Okafor and Noel, and all three can even be played together at times.

I also recall Brett Brown once saying that they were hoping for Wiggins and Stauskas out of that 2014 draft, neither of whom they had a shot at unless they took Nik 3rd. Now they have Stauskas and got a pick swap with the most dysfunctional NBA franchise for virtually nothing. 

The MCW situation is the most controversial move so far IMO. He hardly had NBA caliber teammates and his shot didn’t look completely broken. It was great when he had that triple double against Miami in his first game. If it wasn’t for him those teams would have been even worse, which is hard to believe; he literally carried them. Now he’s on a playoff team with a really nice core and we can judge him fairly as an NBA player. But he may be the 5th best starter on that team and didn’t particularly wow anyone in Milwaukee. I don’t believe MCW has reached his ceiling but expecting him to develop a reliable shot and become an All-Star is as big a bet as pinning your hopes on high draft picks, and Hinkie is prioritizing shooting with his guards/wings.

 

[ballislyfe25Participant]

It’s totally fair to doubt the process but I’m in support of it and intrigued by it (not a Sixers fan). 

Hinkie has passed over guards for bigs in the drafts because he feels the bigs are better players in a vacuum. In hindsight, he could have taken Dante Exum over Embiid but, as has been said 100 times, Embiid was the top prospect of a very strong draft class and the closest thing we’ve seen to Hakeem Olajuwon in a prospect. He’s also doing the smartest thing possible by holding out Embiid and not rushing him back. Yes, he may not ever play but he could also recover well and end up becoming the player we all envisioned. The guy is so young. Maybe he takes D’Angelo Russell over Jahlil if he had the chance. Passing over Elfrid Payton for Dario Saric is a perfectly defensible move. Point guards who can’t shoot from deep or shoot free throws aren’t desired anymore, but the overriding argument from Hinkie’s perspective is that Saric is simply a better player. He can shoot, handle, play both forward spots, is aggressive, and 6’10. This kid is developing nicely overseas and will form a great 3-big rotation with Okafor and Noel, and all three can even be played together at times.

I also recall Brett Brown once saying that they were hoping for Wiggins and Stauskas out of that 2014 draft, neither of whom they had a shot at unless they took Nik 3rd. Now they have Stauskas and got a pick swap with the most dysfunctional NBA franchise for virtually nothing. 

The MCW situation is the most controversial move so far IMO. He hardly had NBA caliber teammates and his shot didn’t look completely broken. It was great when he had that triple double against Miami in his first game. If it wasn’t for him those teams would have been even worse, which is hard to believe; he literally carried them. Now he’s on a playoff team with a really nice core and we can judge him fairly as an NBA player. But he may be the 5th best starter on that team and didn’t particularly wow anyone in Milwaukee. I don’t believe MCW has reached his ceiling but expecting him to develop a reliable shot and become an All-Star is as big a bet as pinning your hopes on high draft picks, and Hinkie is prioritizing shooting with his guards/wings.

 

[BubbaChuckParticipant]

1) Yes.
2) Several more years. Even though I feel that he is already proving himself.
3) I’d say there’d have to be 2: First when he turned Holiday into Noel & Saric; Second when he turned Arturas Gudaitis & Luka Mitrovic into Stauskas, 2018 first rounder, right to switch picks in 2016 & 2017, Thompson & Landry…
4) Trading for Chukwudiebere Maduabum.

As for your dissing Hinkie for “Trading MCW who is now a starter for a top 5 Eastern conference team”, you do realize that as soon as he was traded the Sixers improved and the Bucks have played worse.

I’m sure you also realize that our current backcourt is NOT our final backcourt.

And I’m also sure you realize that Payton has the exact same weaknesses as MCW had. In todays floor spacing it’s toxic to have a PG who can’t shoot. Payton is a terrible shooter. Not average. Terrible. And you do realize that Saric is a SF/PF while Embiid is a CENTER!

Request: Please don’t join the bandwagon in a few seasons when the Sixers will be on the top. Not the middle. The top. That place that takes a foundation, not luck to get to.

[TRC1991Participant]

They won’t be on the top, so you shouldn’t have any concerns about me jumping on the bandwagon. Hate what Sam Hinkie has done to a once legendary franchise.

Gutted it, and has gone in absolute circles, though Philly fans are too hopeful, proud and naive to admit it 

 

 

[TRC1991Participant]

They won’t be on the top, so you shouldn’t have any concerns about me jumping on the bandwagon. Hate what Sam Hinkie has done to a once legendary franchise.

Gutted it, and has gone in absolute circles, though Philly fans are too hopeful, proud and naive to admit it 

 

 

[BubbaChuckParticipant]

Fair enough, let’s look at what some Hinkie got and what he has now:

Hinkie’s inheritance:
* Jrue Holiday (4 years/$44M)
* Thaddeus Young (3 years/$27.5M)
* Evan Turner
* Spencer Hawes
* Arnett Moultrie
* Lavoy Allen
* Kwame Brown
* Jason Richardson
* Andrew Bynum’s bird rights
* 11th pick 2013; 2014 first round pick; 2015 first round pick; 35 & 42 pick in 2013

Sixers assets: July 13, 2015:
* Jahlil Okafor (team control through 2019/20)
* Nerlens Noel (team control through 2017/18)
* first round pick in 2016 (right to swap pick with SAC)
* LAL first rounder in 2016
* Joel Embiid (team control through 2018/19)
* first rounder in 2017 (right to swap pick with SAC)
* Robert Covington (3 years/$3.1M
* SAC 2018 first
* Dario Saric (expected arrival in 2016/17 or 2017/18)
* MIA 2016 first
* Jerami Grant (3 years/$2.9M)
* Hollis Thompson (2 years/$2M)
* OKC 2017 first rounder
* Nick Stauskas
* Jakkar Samspon
* Tony Wroten (team control through 2016/17)
* Furkan Aldemir
* Isaiah Canon
* Richaun Holmes
* Jordan Mcrae (draft rights held)
* DEN 2016 second rounder
* Vasilije Micic (playing in Germany)
* JP Tokoto
* Arsalan Kazemi (playing in China)
* BRK 2018 second
* NYK 2018 second
* TJ McConnell (partial guarantee)
* C. Maduabum
* Jason Thompson
* Carl Landry

[BubbaChuckParticipant]

Fair enough, let’s look at what some Hinkie got and what he has now:

Hinkie’s inheritance:
* Jrue Holiday (4 years/$44M)
* Thaddeus Young (3 years/$27.5M)
* Evan Turner
* Spencer Hawes
* Arnett Moultrie
* Lavoy Allen
* Kwame Brown
* Jason Richardson
* Andrew Bynum’s bird rights
* 11th pick 2013; 2014 first round pick; 2015 first round pick; 35 & 42 pick in 2013

Sixers assets: July 13, 2015:
* Jahlil Okafor (team control through 2019/20)
* Nerlens Noel (team control through 2017/18)
* first round pick in 2016 (right to swap pick with SAC)
* LAL first rounder in 2016
* Joel Embiid (team control through 2018/19)
* first rounder in 2017 (right to swap pick with SAC)
* Robert Covington (3 years/$3.1M
* SAC 2018 first
* Dario Saric (expected arrival in 2016/17 or 2017/18)
* MIA 2016 first
* Jerami Grant (3 years/$2.9M)
* Hollis Thompson (2 years/$2M)
* OKC 2017 first rounder
* Nick Stauskas
* Jakkar Samspon
* Tony Wroten (team control through 2016/17)
* Furkan Aldemir
* Isaiah Canon
* Richaun Holmes
* Jordan Mcrae (draft rights held)
* DEN 2016 second rounder
* Vasilije Micic (playing in Germany)
* JP Tokoto
* Arsalan Kazemi (playing in China)
* BRK 2018 second
* NYK 2018 second
* TJ McConnell (partial guarantee)
* C. Maduabum
* Jason Thompson
* Carl Landry

[BubbaChuckParticipant]

1) Yes.
2) Several more years. Even though I feel that he is already proving himself.
3) I’d say there’d have to be 2: First when he turned Holiday into Noel & Saric; Second when he turned Arturas Gudaitis & Luka Mitrovic into Stauskas, 2018 first rounder, right to switch picks in 2016 & 2017, Thompson & Landry…
4) Trading for Chukwudiebere Maduabum.

As for your dissing Hinkie for “Trading MCW who is now a starter for a top 5 Eastern conference team”, you do realize that as soon as he was traded the Sixers improved and the Bucks have played worse.

I’m sure you also realize that our current backcourt is NOT our final backcourt.

And I’m also sure you realize that Payton has the exact same weaknesses as MCW had. In todays floor spacing it’s toxic to have a PG who can’t shoot. Payton is a terrible shooter. Not average. Terrible. And you do realize that Saric is a SF/PF while Embiid is a CENTER!

Request: Please don’t join the bandwagon in a few seasons when the Sixers will be on the top. Not the middle. The top. That place that takes a foundation, not luck to get to.

[skingzParticipant]

 payton is a good player i wish the kings drafted him over stauskas last year. sac wouldnt need rondo if payton was around

ya’ll need to stop pointing out "rights to swap picks" that is so petty. acting like philly will be in the playoffs and kings will have a top 3 pick and ya’ll will "have the right to swap." take our first rounder we aint doin nothing with it anyway. cousins a blessing but thats about it. tyreke gone, isiah gone other than that our best draft pick in the last 10 years is either jason thompson or omri casspi….thank god vlade’s back

the "foundation" philly is building on is taking centers 3 years in a row, and this last one (okafor) may be the best one after its all said and done thats just looking at health because the other center that was drafted last year will miss 164 games to start his career and noel missed his first year(i like noel the most out of those 3) didnt hinkie get the memo…this is a guard league. saric will be the pf of the future philly needs to get rid of 1 of the 3 young bigs they got for more wings..thompson is a good backup…you don’t need a center unless he is really good. draymond green played center 75% of the playoffs. lebron james is a power forward in today’s game the cavs should have love at center with mozgov backing him up. (lets leave varejao out of this until he plays 20 games)…my hometown kings will play rudy gay at the 4..cousins koufus stein will be the centers/other pf’s…you don’t need a plethra of big men…you just need one good one and some decent back ups thats it…the rest of your roster should be loaded with small forwards shooting guards and 2 good point guards..at least thats how i play 2k lol

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

  

[ChoppyParticipant]

Sounds like you are describing Detroit. 1 good big man (Drummond), decent backups (Baynes), lots of wings KCP, Meeks, Morris, Johnson and 2 decent PG’s (Jackson and Jennings). 

[ChoppyParticipant]

Sounds like you are describing Detroit. 1 good big man (Drummond), decent backups (Baynes), lots of wings KCP, Meeks, Morris, Johnson and 2 decent PG’s (Jackson and Jennings). 

[skingzParticipant]

 payton is a good player i wish the kings drafted him over stauskas last year. sac wouldnt need rondo if payton was around

ya’ll need to stop pointing out "rights to swap picks" that is so petty. acting like philly will be in the playoffs and kings will have a top 3 pick and ya’ll will "have the right to swap." take our first rounder we aint doin nothing with it anyway. cousins a blessing but thats about it. tyreke gone, isiah gone other than that our best draft pick in the last 10 years is either jason thompson or omri casspi….thank god vlade’s back

the "foundation" philly is building on is taking centers 3 years in a row, and this last one (okafor) may be the best one after its all said and done thats just looking at health because the other center that was drafted last year will miss 164 games to start his career and noel missed his first year(i like noel the most out of those 3) didnt hinkie get the memo…this is a guard league. saric will be the pf of the future philly needs to get rid of 1 of the 3 young bigs they got for more wings..thompson is a good backup…you don’t need a center unless he is really good. draymond green played center 75% of the playoffs. lebron james is a power forward in today’s game the cavs should have love at center with mozgov backing him up. (lets leave varejao out of this until he plays 20 games)…my hometown kings will play rudy gay at the 4..cousins koufus stein will be the centers/other pf’s…you don’t need a plethra of big men…you just need one good one and some decent back ups thats it…the rest of your roster should be loaded with small forwards shooting guards and 2 good point guards..at least thats how i play 2k lol

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

  

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

 BubbaChuck has it right. This was what I was about to post—albeit a lot less intelligently because I’m not a Philly fan. 

I still don’t understand why people care so much about this whole thing if they aren’t Philly fans. 

Hinkie keeps drafting the best player available. Don’t see how that is "fireable"

Elfrid Payton had a decent rookie year—not great, not awful. Lets not act like trading him for a top Euro prospect was some awful deal. Plenty of Euros take a year or two to come over, that doesn’t mean he will be great, but it also doesn’t mean he won’t. 

Trading MCW netted them in all likelihood a top 7 pick in next year’s draft. MCW hasn’t shown anything to prove he’s an elite NBA PG. At best, he looks like a decent one, but again, its not like they got rid of an elite player for peanuts. 

He turned Thaddeus Young into a potential lottery pick—good move I’d say.

He got a lottery pick (Stauskas) along with more draft picks from Sacramento for nothing.

He unearthed Robert Covington who at this point looks like a good rotation player down the line.

The only move I didn’t like was trading McDaniels— at the same time, he still hasn’t signed with anyone nor could he crack Houston’s rotation. So it’s not like he was as valuable as a lot think.

People need to quit &$#%#&@!ing about Hinkie. There are a lot of garbage GMs in the NBA who operate every year seemingly without a plan. Hinkie’s plan may not end up working, but at least he has a plan. And he’s not running a team in a destination city where he can shortcut his rebuild by signing big name free agents. 

Rebuilds take time. Its been two years. I think Philly can realistically be a playoff team in two years if they hit on picks and stay relatively healthy. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

 BubbaChuck has it right. This was what I was about to post—albeit a lot less intelligently because I’m not a Philly fan. 

I still don’t understand why people care so much about this whole thing if they aren’t Philly fans. 

Hinkie keeps drafting the best player available. Don’t see how that is "fireable"

Elfrid Payton had a decent rookie year—not great, not awful. Lets not act like trading him for a top Euro prospect was some awful deal. Plenty of Euros take a year or two to come over, that doesn’t mean he will be great, but it also doesn’t mean he won’t. 

Trading MCW netted them in all likelihood a top 7 pick in next year’s draft. MCW hasn’t shown anything to prove he’s an elite NBA PG. At best, he looks like a decent one, but again, its not like they got rid of an elite player for peanuts. 

He turned Thaddeus Young into a potential lottery pick—good move I’d say.

He got a lottery pick (Stauskas) along with more draft picks from Sacramento for nothing.

He unearthed Robert Covington who at this point looks like a good rotation player down the line.

The only move I didn’t like was trading McDaniels— at the same time, he still hasn’t signed with anyone nor could he crack Houston’s rotation. So it’s not like he was as valuable as a lot think.

People need to quit &$#%#&@!ing about Hinkie. There are a lot of garbage GMs in the NBA who operate every year seemingly without a plan. Hinkie’s plan may not end up working, but at least he has a plan. And he’s not running a team in a destination city where he can shortcut his rebuild by signing big name free agents. 

Rebuilds take time. Its been two years. I think Philly can realistically be a playoff team in two years if they hit on picks and stay relatively healthy. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BEARDED-DRAGONParticipant]

 didnt they recieve thier own pick back as well in the elfriid payton/saric deal? as i understand it, as a magic fan, we we’re to get the first sixers pick within the next 3 years that fell outside the lottery… probably the 2017 draft pick 20 or so, if everything goes well for philly. or a second rounder in 2018 + 19. rob hennigan traded that pick and saric for elfriid payton. instead of taking zach lavine straight up and keeping the sixers future pick. i know, i know, hindsight. but you have to factor that in when your saying that it was maybe one of hinkies worst moves. if saric comes over and does well, and they make the playoffs by 2018, it may look like he fleeced the magic on this deal.

[BEARDED-DRAGONParticipant]

 didnt they recieve thier own pick back as well in the elfriid payton/saric deal? as i understand it, as a magic fan, we we’re to get the first sixers pick within the next 3 years that fell outside the lottery… probably the 2017 draft pick 20 or so, if everything goes well for philly. or a second rounder in 2018 + 19. rob hennigan traded that pick and saric for elfriid payton. instead of taking zach lavine straight up and keeping the sixers future pick. i know, i know, hindsight. but you have to factor that in when your saying that it was maybe one of hinkies worst moves. if saric comes over and does well, and they make the playoffs by 2018, it may look like he fleeced the magic on this deal.

[Anton123Participant]

The thing is, if Hinkie does manage to make a team that is a legit championship contender, we will have to answer the question of whether 3+ years of intentionally being historically bad and playing unwatchable basketball is:

a) worth it if in the end you become a contender

b) a legit method of building a team

There is probably no correct answer to this question and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. 

On the other hand, if Hinkie fails to make this team a top 3 team in the league, this experiment will most certainly be a failure, because putting together a team that is just good can certainly be done with a lot less pain for the fans and loss of money from falling ticket sales and TV ratings.

[Anton123Participant]

The thing is, if Hinkie does manage to make a team that is a legit championship contender, we will have to answer the question of whether 3+ years of intentionally being historically bad and playing unwatchable basketball is:

a) worth it if in the end you become a contender

b) a legit method of building a team

There is probably no correct answer to this question and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. 

On the other hand, if Hinkie fails to make this team a top 3 team in the league, this experiment will most certainly be a failure, because putting together a team that is just good can certainly be done with a lot less pain for the fans and loss of money from falling ticket sales and TV ratings.

[Rip255]

Revisiting a lot of points in the OP….they had the chance to get Payton or keep MCW…
What more do you want from your Point Guard.

I dont see any decent PG prospects in the forseeable future for the 76ers that are better than those 2 guys. And PGs take a long time to develop so even if they took a 19yo stud.. all it does is guarantee more losing.

By that time Philly will be lucky to have 500 people in the stadium.

#crickets

[Rip255]

Revisiting a lot of points in the OP….they had the chance to get Payton or keep MCW…
What more do you want from your Point Guard.

I dont see any decent PG prospects in the forseeable future for the 76ers that are better than those 2 guys. And PGs take a long time to develop so even if they took a 19yo stud.. all it does is guarantee more losing.

By that time Philly will be lucky to have 500 people in the stadium.

#crickets

[EspressoprodigyParticipant]

 Had Embiid not gotten hurt, and perfom at the level that we all know he can, we wold be talking about the right-doings of Hinkie. İm not saying, but just saying.

[EspressoprodigyParticipant]

 Had Embiid not gotten hurt, and perfom at the level that we all know he can, we wold be talking about the right-doings of Hinkie. İm not saying, but just saying.

[Author]

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