[ChicagoCaseyParticipant]

I read the “Kyrie Irving being disrespected” thread and fount some people astonished that John Wall is ahead of him and some people said “John Wall doesn’t make people around him better. I had to laugh at that one. And some said he is not even a leader and I fount that cringe worthy. So.. Let me get this out the way… I believe John Wall is clearly the more superior player than Kyrie Irving and believe it’s pretty cut and dry because I view the better player by who’s the better OVERALL player on both offense and defense. I view John Wall by far the better overall player.

The “John Wall don’t make his teammates better” thing needs to stop because he does it on both ends of the court. On defense last year the Wizards was the second best defensive team when John Wall was on the court, the Wizards was the 24th best team on defense when he was off the court. That was on defense his impact and on offense he basically got people paid by playing with and raise their field goal percentage. Look at Trevor Ariza for an example, he shot 41% from the 3’s and 45 from the field when playing with Wall, his best 3 point season was 33% from the field. Look at Martell Webster, he had by far his best season in his career with John Wall and the Wizards, he got paid, and he shot a career high from the 3 point line with John Wall. Go with Bradley Beal, he was shooting 35% from 3 point when John Wall was injured in his rookie season and when John Wall got healthy he was shooting upward of 45%. And Wall is on the court his 3 point percentage skyrocket. Go with Rasual Butler, he was shooting 50% from the three point line when he got to John Wall. And you can go with a lot more fell good “Wall got me paid” or “I love playing with Wall” moments with other players.

I also laughed when some of the users on that “disrespecting Kyrie” thread that John Wall is not a leader is laughable because everybody mention how much of a leader he is and how much he grew to be a leader. He’s a leader on and off the court. He always giving back to people off the court by starting a new foundation for charity, donating money to charities, and not getting in no trouble off the court. On the court he always be the one that get’s on players and he’s always the one that be the first ones that lifted a player up. He is well respected on the team as a leader. When he’s on the court people look at him for leadership. I don’t get the “John Wall is no leader” thing because that’s nonsense because mostly all the people that John Wall played with call him a leader. And to show his leadership, when he got injured and missed the first half of the season the Wizards had the worst records in the league, the team could’ve given up and the season could’ve been lost, but John Wall came back and made them almost made the playoffs. That’s a prime example of leadership in my eyes. The players gravitate towards Wall. I don’t see that with Irving. Again, I don’t see how people don’t see Wall as a leader.

[holefillers1Participant]

 John Wall is the leader of his team. Kyrie is not.  In addition i would take Beal over Irving.

[holefillers1Participant]

 John Wall is the leader of his team. Kyrie is not.  In addition i would take Beal over Irving.

[Memphisboy14Participant]

 You are trippin bro. Muriel is definitely a better player than Wall.

[Memphisboy14Participant]

 I meant to say that Irving is a better player than Beal. I have no clue what the hell happened in my original post. It’s almost like someone else changed what I posted and I can’t change it back.

[Memphisboy14Participant]

 I meant to say that Irving is a better player than Beal. I have no clue what the hell happened in my original post. It’s almost like someone else changed what I posted and I can’t change it back.

[Memphisboy14Participant]

 You are trippin bro. Muriel is definitely a better player than Wall.

[elliotmcadooParticipant]

Kyrie is a better scorer and that alone. Very crafty dribbler up there with Curry for best in the league. Wall is a better passer light years beyond him on defense. I would have to give Wall the nod for being better overall. 

[elliotmcadooParticipant]

Kyrie is a better scorer and that alone. Very crafty dribbler up there with Curry for best in the league. Wall is a better passer light years beyond him on defense. I would have to give Wall the nod for being better overall. 

[IlladelphParticipant]

 There you guys go again… disrespecting Kyrie Irving… 🙂

[IlladelphParticipant]

 There you guys go again… disrespecting Kyrie Irving… 🙂

[BiggaveliiiParticipant]

although it would be hard i would choose Irving just because he has a potential for a big game every single night hes on the court. Wall isnt like that he could do everything but score in bunches. Irvings offense far superior than Walls. Especially in the modern game its much more of a three point shooting game, and Irvings skill set is perfect for it , Wall is better at different things ye, but in the game RIGHT NOW!! based on what i saw during the playoffs, Irving potential for a big game outmatches Walls. It can go either way though , Wall had great playoff run before he got hurt so you cant really go wrong, if anything i would say a tie, Irvings a stud same for Wall.

[BiggaveliiiParticipant]

although it would be hard i would choose Irving just because he has a potential for a big game every single night hes on the court. Wall isnt like that he could do everything but score in bunches. Irvings offense far superior than Walls. Especially in the modern game its much more of a three point shooting game, and Irvings skill set is perfect for it , Wall is better at different things ye, but in the game RIGHT NOW!! based on what i saw during the playoffs, Irving potential for a big game outmatches Walls. It can go either way though , Wall had great playoff run before he got hurt so you cant really go wrong, if anything i would say a tie, Irvings a stud same for Wall.

[invalidParticipant]

 you really have to make a new thread for this one.. attention pls..

[invalidParticipant]

 you really have to make a new thread for this one.. attention pls..

[ChewyParticipant]

 this is taking up a spot that could have been used for another talk about Portzingas or the Celtics… such a waste

[ChewyParticipant]

 this is taking up a spot that could have been used for another talk about Portzingas or the Celtics… such a waste

[trelos6Participant]

Porzingis for Sullinger

2 birds one stone.  

[trelos6Participant]

Porzingis for Sullinger

2 birds one stone.  

[Juan_SoloParticipant]

 just bcuz somebody is a better defender doesnt qualify as a better. They are both talented players in their own rights. Wall is a better defender than Curry too, does that make him better?? I think the one thing that seperates the two is availability. Wall has been there day in and day out. But even with Kyrie injuries he is a guy that can explode for 50 at any time. And be within the flow of a game. Flip a coin, its that close….

[Juan_SoloParticipant]

 just bcuz somebody is a better defender doesnt qualify as a better. They are both talented players in their own rights. Wall is a better defender than Curry too, does that make him better?? I think the one thing that seperates the two is availability. Wall has been there day in and day out. But even with Kyrie injuries he is a guy that can explode for 50 at any time. And be within the flow of a game. Flip a coin, its that close….

[NBAjunkie81Participant]

gaurd at this point, especially w/ Lebron now mainly a "Point 4" – Ktrie, reminds me of Iverson in that he is more of a nutral scorer who can play the point…

 I think a better question if you were the GM of an expansion franchise & you could take either Wall or Irving to start a team who would you pick?

  I Luv Wall as a Leader & he really makes his teammates better – Wall has 5 years as a pro & he has Really grown that last 2 years – as many top players do – that 4th year is big…

Kyrie is entering his 4th year & I think we can expect big things from him… Still it will be hard to do a side by side comparison w/ Wall b/c they serve different functions for their respective teams… Still, Kyrie is a Gifted scorer & that skill set is at an Ultimate premium in the grind of the playoffs late in games when your team NEEDS a bucket…

We all luv stats but scoring is & always will be King in this particular sport & there are precious few players who force a double team or help defense by either by breaking his man down on the perimeter or shooting over him or breaking him down in the paint (for a big man)… I luv Both players & it’s a difficult choice but I can find a PG – elite scorers are So hard to find….

 I’d go w/ Irving by a nose – 

 

 

[NBAjunkie81Participant]

gaurd at this point, especially w/ Lebron now mainly a "Point 4" – Ktrie, reminds me of Iverson in that he is more of a nutral scorer who can play the point…

 I think a better question if you were the GM of an expansion franchise & you could take either Wall or Irving to start a team who would you pick?

  I Luv Wall as a Leader & he really makes his teammates better – Wall has 5 years as a pro & he has Really grown that last 2 years – as many top players do – that 4th year is big…

Kyrie is entering his 4th year & I think we can expect big things from him… Still it will be hard to do a side by side comparison w/ Wall b/c they serve different functions for their respective teams… Still, Kyrie is a Gifted scorer & that skill set is at an Ultimate premium in the grind of the playoffs late in games when your team NEEDS a bucket…

We all luv stats but scoring is & always will be King in this particular sport & there are precious few players who force a double team or help defense by either by breaking his man down on the perimeter or shooting over him or breaking him down in the paint (for a big man)… I luv Both players & it’s a difficult choice but I can find a PG – elite scorers are So hard to find….

 I’d go w/ Irving by a nose – 

 

 

[PulseGlazerParticipant]

 Kyrie can’t stay healthy.  That alone knocks him down a peg… a whole peg!

[PulseGlazerParticipant]

 Kyrie can’t stay healthy.  That alone knocks him down a peg… a whole peg!

[Memphisboy14Participant]

 I think some people get it twisted. Just because you think one player is better than the other doesn’t mean that the other guy is bad by any means. For instance I do think overall Wall is the better player. But that’s no disrespect to Irving who in my opinion is a top 20 player too. I wouldn’t be upset if Ir info played on my favorite team at all.

[Memphisboy14Participant]

 I think some people get it twisted. Just because you think one player is better than the other doesn’t mean that the other guy is bad by any means. For instance I do think overall Wall is the better player. But that’s no disrespect to Irving who in my opinion is a top 20 player too. I wouldn’t be upset if Ir info played on my favorite team at all.

[Pro-21Participant]

 I think Kyrie Irving is better because he can take over any game with his scoring at any time, and that is especially valuable in the playoffs. The best players in the game are almost invariably the ones with singular scoring talent, and Kyrie has that quality. He dropped 57 points on the spurs, in a game where most of his shots were contested, so his points weren’t as easy to get as you might think, he’s just so good it looked that way.

Wall is a better two-way player, sure, but Kyrie proved that he isnt really a liability on defense this year, so to me that doesn’t matter as much. Wall is not going to shut down Cp3, Curry, Westbrook, Harden … etc, and he will not keep up with them as far as scoring … he has shot under 40% from the field in the playoffs for his career. Not good enough.

Kyrie played curry, who is considered to be a top 5 player in the game, to a draw in a game where he was obviously hindered by his injuries. Kyrie’s jumper, footwork, finishing ability and his ability to get wherever he wants on the court make him a bit more valuable to me, and his ability to shoot efficiently on limited touches, without even having to get into a rhythm would make him more compatible with more teams.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pro-21Participant]

 I think Kyrie Irving is better because he can take over any game with his scoring at any time, and that is especially valuable in the playoffs. The best players in the game are almost invariably the ones with singular scoring talent, and Kyrie has that quality. He dropped 57 points on the spurs, in a game where most of his shots were contested, so his points weren’t as easy to get as you might think, he’s just so good it looked that way.

Wall is a better two-way player, sure, but Kyrie proved that he isnt really a liability on defense this year, so to me that doesn’t matter as much. Wall is not going to shut down Cp3, Curry, Westbrook, Harden … etc, and he will not keep up with them as far as scoring … he has shot under 40% from the field in the playoffs for his career. Not good enough.

Kyrie played curry, who is considered to be a top 5 player in the game, to a draw in a game where he was obviously hindered by his injuries. Kyrie’s jumper, footwork, finishing ability and his ability to get wherever he wants on the court make him a bit more valuable to me, and his ability to shoot efficiently on limited touches, without even having to get into a rhythm would make him more compatible with more teams.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HeroescantdieParticipant]

You should also take into consideration the team success when comparing Kyrie and Wall. No one said Wall is better than Curry. Cleveland would’nt be in the Playoffs if not for Lebron and they’re other acquisitions. When you look at Wizards, they build around wall, wall is their leader, 

 

Kyrie: I’m better than him, look at my points in the boxscore 

Wall: compare him to me when he led a team to a Playoffs, he’s just riding  the back of LBJ. 

Kyrie: I’ll break your ankles 24/7. I mma light you up for 50 pts.

Wall: I don’t need to break your ankles, you had your first playoff season riding someones back and yet you break you kneecap lol.

Kyrie: If I didn’t break my kneecap, your having a conversation with a world champion right now

 

Just kidding

Man, that’s close

[HeroescantdieParticipant]

You should also take into consideration the team success when comparing Kyrie and Wall. No one said Wall is better than Curry. Cleveland would’nt be in the Playoffs if not for Lebron and they’re other acquisitions. When you look at Wizards, they build around wall, wall is their leader, 

 

Kyrie: I’m better than him, look at my points in the boxscore 

Wall: compare him to me when he led a team to a Playoffs, he’s just riding  the back of LBJ. 

Kyrie: I’ll break your ankles 24/7. I mma light you up for 50 pts.

Wall: I don’t need to break your ankles, you had your first playoff season riding someones back and yet you break you kneecap lol.

Kyrie: If I didn’t break my kneecap, your having a conversation with a world champion right now

 

Just kidding

Man, that’s close

[invalidParticipant]

you seem to forget how slow wall started. 1st season(20yo) 69 games, 2nd season(21yo) 66 games, 3rd season(22yo) whopping 49(!) games.  

at 22 Irving is on his 4th year, 64 games per season. Wall at the same age only played 61 games a year.

you also speak as if Irving has no chance of making the playoffs forever, even if LBJ didnt go back to Cavs, they can make it on the weak east. He will have Wiggins on his side by then and other role players.

teammates better? what do you expect on beal, from rookie to second and third year, he has nowhere to go but go up. thanks detective conan. and those other garbage players you mentioned, where are they now if they really got better?

Individually Irving is 3x allstar, 3pt shootout champ, all nba 3rd team, all star mvp, world cup mvp

wall = dancing like a… lol

Say Durant goes to the Wiz and they made it to finals, would you want to say that Durant is the lone reason they made it?

right now it might be close, but Irving still has alot of potential. You are hitting on a younger guy, try comparing him to what Wall did two years before. If LBJ didnt go back to Cavs, at his peak Irving can avg close to 27 and is capable of leading a team to playoffs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PulseGlazerParticipant]

 I see that re: injuries, but all we can judge them on is what they’ve done so far. So far, right now, Wall is more durable and better.  Kyrie may end up pretty healthy over his carreer, but that’s impossible to say.  For now, he misses a ton of games and, for now Wall isn’t.

[PulseGlazerParticipant]

 I see that re: injuries, but all we can judge them on is what they’ve done so far. So far, right now, Wall is more durable and better.  Kyrie may end up pretty healthy over his carreer, but that’s impossible to say.  For now, he misses a ton of games and, for now Wall isn’t.

[invalidParticipant]

you seem to forget how slow wall started. 1st season(20yo) 69 games, 2nd season(21yo) 66 games, 3rd season(22yo) whopping 49(!) games.  

at 22 Irving is on his 4th year, 64 games per season. Wall at the same age only played 61 games a year.

you also speak as if Irving has no chance of making the playoffs forever, even if LBJ didnt go back to Cavs, they can make it on the weak east. He will have Wiggins on his side by then and other role players.

teammates better? what do you expect on beal, from rookie to second and third year, he has nowhere to go but go up. thanks detective conan. and those other garbage players you mentioned, where are they now if they really got better?

Individually Irving is 3x allstar, 3pt shootout champ, all nba 3rd team, all star mvp, world cup mvp

wall = dancing like a… lol

Say Durant goes to the Wiz and they made it to finals, would you want to say that Durant is the lone reason they made it?

right now it might be close, but Irving still has alot of potential. You are hitting on a younger guy, try comparing him to what Wall did two years before. If LBJ didnt go back to Cavs, at his peak Irving can avg close to 27 and is capable of leading a team to playoffs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

 Ive been defending Wall on this site since his rookie year. His best attribute is making the players around him better. You could see that at Kentucky. Anyone that plays or has played bball, and has watched Wall play would love to have him as a teammate. 

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

 Ive been defending Wall on this site since his rookie year. His best attribute is making the players around him better. You could see that at Kentucky. Anyone that plays or has played bball, and has watched Wall play would love to have him as a teammate. 

[HitsterParticipant]

From my point of view they are two fairly well matched players who play the same position but have slightlty different skillsets. So which one is better is very much a personal choice of opinion as both are top level NBA point guards.

All the arguments for and against have been well discussed above, personally I slightly prefer John Wall, maybe it’s almost that I’ve been a fan of his since he first came onto the draft horizon so I feel more affinity to him.

To say one is better than the other in someone’s personal opinion is not being disrespectful to them as long as we acknowledge they are both good PG’s.

 

[HitsterParticipant]

From my point of view they are two fairly well matched players who play the same position but have slightlty different skillsets. So which one is better is very much a personal choice of opinion as both are top level NBA point guards.

All the arguments for and against have been well discussed above, personally I slightly prefer John Wall, maybe it’s almost that I’ve been a fan of his since he first came onto the draft horizon so I feel more affinity to him.

To say one is better than the other in someone’s personal opinion is not being disrespectful to them as long as we acknowledge they are both good PG’s.

 

[Ewalton23Participant]

Not only is John Wall a better player today than Kyrie Irving his ceiling as a pro appears to be much higher. Everyone talks about key free agents but never mentions Wall. With numbers of 17.6ppg, 10.0apg and 4.6rpg Wall shows his effect on the game in multiple categories. His 17.6 is a solid number when you consider he gets better each year as a shooter and that number could possibly get to around 20ppg which would put him elite company of being able to average 20 and 10. Irving will always average his 20, but on how many shots and what else is his tangible impact on an NBA game? Being that Irving is not overly athletic and given the fact that he plays with Lebron James, where would the growth in Irving’s game occur? Zebras don’t usually change their stripes so don’t expect him to become a lockdown defender anytime soon, Lebron will ALWAYS be the main guy so its not like he will average 30 ppg anytime soon and lead the league in scoring. Wall’s growth in the same breath could be said is unmeasurable because he IS the guy in Washington but his counterpart is Brad Beal who is a shooter and scorer. So with the same theory as Beal gets better in his scoring and support role, Wall could increase numbers in productivity in his role as a perennial top 5 NBA maestro.

[Ewalton23Participant]

Not only is John Wall a better player today than Kyrie Irving his ceiling as a pro appears to be much higher. Everyone talks about key free agents but never mentions Wall. With numbers of 17.6ppg, 10.0apg and 4.6rpg Wall shows his effect on the game in multiple categories. His 17.6 is a solid number when you consider he gets better each year as a shooter and that number could possibly get to around 20ppg which would put him elite company of being able to average 20 and 10. Irving will always average his 20, but on how many shots and what else is his tangible impact on an NBA game? Being that Irving is not overly athletic and given the fact that he plays with Lebron James, where would the growth in Irving’s game occur? Zebras don’t usually change their stripes so don’t expect him to become a lockdown defender anytime soon, Lebron will ALWAYS be the main guy so its not like he will average 30 ppg anytime soon and lead the league in scoring. Wall’s growth in the same breath could be said is unmeasurable because he IS the guy in Washington but his counterpart is Brad Beal who is a shooter and scorer. So with the same theory as Beal gets better in his scoring and support role, Wall could increase numbers in productivity in his role as a perennial top 5 NBA maestro.

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 I love kyries game and he is no doubt the one of the most exciting players in the league. However, wall has already proven he can lead a team to the playoffs and make other players around him better, which kyrie has not at this point. That’s why I’d take Wall. No disrespect to Irving whatsoever.

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 I love kyries game and he is no doubt the one of the most exciting players in the league. However, wall has already proven he can lead a team to the playoffs and make other players around him better, which kyrie has not at this point. That’s why I’d take Wall. No disrespect to Irving whatsoever.

[Author]

Posts