[TRC1991Participant]

my brother and i are in a heated debate over who the better player is…he is very old school and sticks with kobe… i want you guys to say who you think is better and a very quick explanation so we can settle this. thanks so much

 

i pick lebron simply because kobe doesnt treat his teammates with nearly the respect lebron does, and because he is no longer as clutch as he once was among a bunch of other reasons but im keeping it simple.

[HaleParticipant]

 LeBron, because he’s still playing (among other reasons).

[kanyedabestParticipant]

^^ really?? ur gonna go with that reason? hmm kobe was playing into june for the past 3 years… get a grip

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

To me, he is the best player in the NBA, if not the world. I had a hard time putting LeBron in front of Kobe for a long time, but it has gotten to the point where LeBron has separated himself from every other player. He is as complete a basketball player as their is, and while his midrange game is still somewhat spotty and he has a tendency to over dribble, he is the most dominant force in basketball as an all-around player.

Kobe is still right behind LeBron James in my mind, but I feel like LeBron surpassed Kobe as an all-around player, he simply effects more facets of the game than Kobe does at this point. I think LeBron is now the superior defender, and his energy level is fantastic. I think clutch is honestly incredibly subjective, and I would still give the ball to Kobe Bryant in any clutch situation, and I feel Kobe is also a much better leader than he gets credit for. Still, LeBron has finally seemed to take over games at the right time, and it is at the point where LeBron is on the ascent while Kobe is on the decline of his prime. Your brother is entitled to his opinion, but I think the vast majority of basketball fans are coming to the realization that the torch has been passed for quite a while now.

[chevilicousParticipant]

Lebron has finally developed that killer mentality that seperated kobe from him 2 years ago. I just wish he and bosh would stop excessively celebrating like they won a championship everytime they hit a 3 footer.

[6-6-6-lolParticipant]

 Kobe’s athleticism dropped off in the past two seasons. Partly because of age but also because of his knee and ankle issues. He has to use more of his IQ then his physical gifts.

Right now in their respective careers Lebron is easily more effective imo. Kobe still has that fire in his belly but he’s a step or two slower. Lakers were swept in the playoffs and the Heat are one game from the finals. I’m also not a Lebron fan and like Kobe’s demeanor but James is certainly a better player in 2011.

Btw, the notion of "clutch" doesn’t exist. Academics and journalists have studied end of game shots and the FG % does not go up or down. This is also to due with the "hot hand". People have a tendency to remember the makes and forget the misses. You can argue against this with subjective points but statistically there is no proof of athlete’s being cluth or having a hot hand.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

I’m sorry 6-6-6-lol

But there IS such thing as clutch and having a hot hand.  I remember a couple of games where I’ll shoot 8-11 or 11-13 and will my team to the win.  I’ll hit fadeaways, contested 3s, shots with a hand in my face, I’ll drive in, turnaround Js.  Everything.  To say there is no proof of an athlete’s "clutchability" or having a hot hand because it is statistically impossible is ridiculous.  I mean, have you watched Dirk at all in this series?

[PlatypusParticipant]

 Kobe is a better Basketball player, Lebrons just an athlete who can pass

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

" Lebrons just an athlete who can pass"

                                         -Symbol

 

By far, one of the worst statements I’ve heard on NBADraft.net, if not, all around.

[delfamParticipant]

 Lebron is the better player but Kobe is more skilled

[HaleParticipant]

I didn’t feel like naming every reason, so I went with the simplest one.

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

666s point is that there is no proof that Kobe hits end of game shots at any particularly special rate as compared to many other good players. We remember the makes and not the misses, but the stat heads record them all. Kobe is just like all the other great players in that he hits his last second shots at about 40 – 45%. That is a pretty good rate because the refs swallow the whistle at the end of the games and so defenses get away with a little extra. Here is 82Games’ Clutch Shot Chart for 2010-2011. Kobe and Rose are at the top in terms of scoring lots of clutch points (clutch is last five minutes in five point or less game or OT), but that is really because they take all the big possessions for their teams. They both shot 40%.

http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM

If you want to see something scary though, sort that column by the plus/minus chart instead of Pts per game. Five of the top six guys are on the Mavericks. I guess that means those guys are closing out their close games in a big way.

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

And on the other side, when you sort by plus/minus per 48, Minnesota has 6 guys in the bottom 10. That tells you that Minnesota got crushed during clutch time all season. Example, Beasely played 116 minutes that qualified as clutch minutes this season. During that time, his team was outscored by 109 points. Ouch! Kidd had 153 clutch minutes and his team outscored the other team by 119. That is closing out some games!

[6-6-6-lolParticipant]

Player FG %s during "clutch time" (end of game or last shot) remain similar to their normal FG % throughout the season. There’s no evidence of enhanced performance during clutch moments, at least measured by FG % in end of game situations. As I wrote earlier and also stated by TallmanNYC, we tend to remember the makes and forget the misses. Think about Jordan… I don’t remember a single miss at the buzzer, yet in his Jordan brand commercials he says that he has missed well over 100 end of game shots.

The notion of a hot-hand is nothing more than a random streak. It’s similar to tossing a coin (50/50)… long streaks of 6 heads in a row frequently happen. If a player makes 50% of his FGs, expect the same streak. Each shot is independent on the last (academics studied an entire season of Philadelphia 76ers shots). Statistically it has been proven that  the notion of "in the zone" and "confidence" is a myth in terms of enhancing athlete performance.

Resources:

"Stumbling on Wins" by Berri and Schmidt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clustering_illusion#cite_note-4 (

Google: The Story of a Hot Hand

[EuroBallParticipant]

Look Numbers tell the truth. Lebron Stats are better than Kobe’s. Kobe had Shaq in his prime to him built is Legacy for him, LEBRON just got wade to Build his legacy. Lebron creates better than kobe, lebron better ball handler, better scorer remember lebron average over 7 apg and over 27.7 ppg in his career. Kobe average 4.7 apg and 25.3 ppg in his career. The only way you can say Kobe is a better player is through the way they state greatest winning NBA Championships. People who say Kobe is better are folks that seen Michael Player and seen the comparison of Jordan and Byrant. Kobe is not better than Lebron. Kobe won a Championships so he’s better than Lebron as in Legacy. Stats wise Lebron the Better player. Lebron is King James he is writing the religion of Basketball and the Black Mambe is just a Deadly Reptile. 

[6-6-6-lolParticipant]

EuroBall with the dagger with all those stats.

People who say Kobe is better are reasoning from their emotions. I like Kobe more as a person, but as a basketball player Lebron is superior. Based on this season’s performance it’s not even close.

[Scottoant93Participant]

Tough choice, I say Kobe is the better player, being a constant superstar and fighting through injuries,winning championships, being clutch(either hot hand or not,doesnt matter to me). Lebron may someday take over but to me he has to prove to me that without his athleticism, he can still dominate.

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

Scott, you say Lebron has to prove that without his athleticism, he can still dominate? He can’t prove that and neither can Kobe. These guys are great because of their athelticism. They couldn’t dominate if they only had 25-inch vertical jumps, for example. Take away their athleticism and they are Kyle Korver on a bad shooting night (i.e., they are out of the league).

Kobe seems to have more heart and desire and competitive fire. That might inspire his teammates, get them to work as hard as he does. But Lebron doesn’t seem to be lacking in those areas. Looking at his incredible production on the court for the last four years or more and he must have heart and work ethic. Even he isn’t such a great athlete that he can just phone it in and be top five in scoring every year while doing lots of other things including playing defense without heart and work ethic.

[BKKnicksfanParticipant]

LeBron James has been better then Kobe Bryant since 2006.

[esperanzafleet69Participant]

"666s point is that there is no proof that Kobe hits end of game shots at any particularly special rate as compared to many other good players."

actually there’s tons of proof… i think kobe’s lead the league in game winners per season like 4 of the past 5 years (1 year brandon roy had more)…

lebron is still better tho… hes better at every aspect of his game except shooting, which hes not far behind kobe in…

[boxn1Participant]

We are comparing Kobe to Lebron, now??? Thats dumb. Kobe isn’t in this prime now,Lebron is. Why compare when the answer is obvious. The fact that Kobe is still top 5 or 10 depending on your view speaks of his greatness. Lebron is great now, he is the best player now. Now just for fun I ask you guys who was better at 27??? Or compare skills at a certain age.

also, anyone who will or has knocked Kobe for winning titles with Shaq, I hope you feel the same about Lebron and or Wade when Miami wins. I doubt that many will

[iguapops420Participant]

 Are we talking prime Kobe or Kobe now at 33 with 40 yr old legs? Big spark between the debate. Kobe has a lot of mileage and injuries and has to be playmaker/scorer. Lebron wasn’t doing shit until he got Wade and Bosh. Easy to say one over the other, but just like old MJ geting busted by a young Kobe, doesn’t mean anything because they aren’t both in their primes. Not to mention Kobe hasn’t had any significant time off to heel up in quite sum time. It’s an apples oranges debate. Leave it alone. I’ll personally still take Kobe any day. I suppose if Kobe wins the title next year with Mike Brown we’ll know. Not to mention that when LBJ has 5 titles and 7 finals appearances, we can talk. 

[billykParticipant]

” Lebron wasn’t doing &$#%#&@! until he got Wade and Bosh”- No, he was just a two time MVP on couple 60 win teams…

[aamir543Participant]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/04/lebron-bosh-head-shot-video_n_831339.html

Yeah, this is what a good teammate does.

[Scottoant93Participant]

^^^ haha that pass was clearly intended to go to dampier for the wide open dunk, miscummunication between james and bosh.

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