[PulseGlazerParticipant]

 I just finished watching Spurs vs. Pacers (League Pass!) and man, I think Kawhai was mad at all the George comparisons because he just wouldn’t let George dribble or get the ball, and every shot was amazingly covered. That was legitimately vicious defense and, as good as George is, it showed in the box score: 7 pts, 7 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 steals for George, but with 6 turnovers, and an amazing 1-16 shooting.

Kawhai meanwhile – 24 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals and no turnovers.  They both played 35 minutes almost exculisvely going head to head and Kawhai was plus 11.  That was ridiculously impressive.

 

 

[holefillers1Participant]

 Sounds like Kawhi Leonard got the best of Paul George tonight. I still take PG-13 to start my team. 26/8/4 with more threes. I love both players and Kawhi’s stats are close, with the better defense but George is charged with carrying his team offensively. I will say that with several HOF’s surrounding him, Leonard has not maxed out his potential yet.

[holefillers1Participant]

 Sounds like Kawhi Leonard got the best of Paul George tonight. I still take PG-13 to start my team. 26/8/4 with more threes. I love both players and Kawhi’s stats are close, with the better defense but George is charged with carrying his team offensively. I will say that with several HOF’s surrounding him, Leonard has not maxed out his potential yet.

[festar35Participant]

 It’s Kawhi not Kawhai (sorry I hate when people spell names wrong).

I however totally agree, Leonard has more than solidified his spot as the best 2-way player in the NBA and the way George has been playing lately I think he is back in 4th behind James and Butler as well. Leonard just seems to play with such ease, I don’t know if it’s his demenour the adds to it. The best thing about his game is just how controlled he doesn’t force anything and uses his body so well.

 

[festar35Participant]

 It’s Kawhi not Kawhai (sorry I hate when people spell names wrong).

I however totally agree, Leonard has more than solidified his spot as the best 2-way player in the NBA and the way George has been playing lately I think he is back in 4th behind James and Butler as well. Leonard just seems to play with such ease, I don’t know if it’s his demenour the adds to it. The best thing about his game is just how controlled he doesn’t force anything and uses his body so well.

 

[UncledrewParticipant]

 George is more talented offensively but kawhi is better overall defensively. Kawhi is also closing the gap on offense which is evident in his play this season hes adding more to his arsenal. The main thing that separates there overall outlook is george flashy style of play garners more attention from fans. Kawhi’s ability to score efficiently without commanding as many shots or take as many ill-advised shots along with his superior defense could make him a better player in the future if he keeps progressing. Seems like he has more room for improvement with the gap already close as it is.

[UncledrewParticipant]

 George is more talented offensively but kawhi is better overall defensively. Kawhi is also closing the gap on offense which is evident in his play this season hes adding more to his arsenal. The main thing that separates there overall outlook is george flashy style of play garners more attention from fans. Kawhi’s ability to score efficiently without commanding as many shots or take as many ill-advised shots along with his superior defense could make him a better player in the future if he keeps progressing. Seems like he has more room for improvement with the gap already close as it is.

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

Wow Kawhi is on another level defensively. Outplayed Durant, Melo and now George… Going to be fun to see the LBJ challenge. This guys debunks the phrase "great offense beats a great defense". 

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

Wow Kawhi is on another level defensively. Outplayed Durant, Melo and now George… Going to be fun to see the LBJ challenge. This guys debunks the phrase "great offense beats a great defense". 

[tblazer_NZParticipant]

 He has done it before. The reason he got his finals MVP was because he stopped LeBron from dominating.

[tblazer_NZParticipant]

 He has done it before. The reason he got his finals MVP was because he stopped LeBron from dominating.

[Greekballin]

 what’s really crazy to think is these guys could have played together.. imagine these 2 defending the wings.. oh boy.. 

[Greekballin]

 what’s really crazy to think is these guys could have played together.. imagine these 2 defending the wings.. oh boy.. 

[DukeDaSquadParticipant]

 Swap the players around them and I dont even think its close. I doubt Kawhi on this pacers team would have the performances that George has had and would lead his team to a top team in the east.

[DukeDaSquadParticipant]

 Swap the players around them and I dont even think its close. I doubt Kawhi on this pacers team would have the performances that George has had and would lead his team to a top team in the east.

[PulseGlazerParticipant]

 I hate the swap the players argument.  Let’s go through some reasons:

1. You have no idea how they would fare in reversed roles. You can assume based on anecdotal evidence and some scouting, but it’s just a giant guess.  

2. You can use it to make any silly argument you want.  Beal over Klay? Sure.  Harden over Curry? How’s that one looking.  KG over Duncan?  Even some really crazy ones like all the guys who supposedly could do what Draymond is doing (p.s. no one could).

3. It just shows you haven’t been watching Spurs games this year. Kawhi is scoring a ton off isolations and he’s shooting ridiculous percentages.

4. As good as George is on D, Kawhi is still the DPOY who is now heading a historically great defense and has shut down George, KD, and plenty of others 1-4 this year.

5. George is thriving in an offensive system that is as similar to the Spurs own as is possible.

Instead of comparing players using silly hypotheticals, compare where they are now.  Right now, Kawhi just owned George. They are, in some order, the numbers 3 and 4 wings in the NBA.  George handles higher usage and more minutes, though he may be wearing down already. Kawhi is more efficient, better on defense (team and individual) and has performed well on a bigger stage.  Who you think is better is debatable, but some hypothetical that means nothing and is unprovable just doesn’t help either side.

Also, as far as them being teammates? Sure, that would have rocked, but without SA, Kawhi may not have learned to shoot. You would have then had two lockdown wing defenders, but trouble justifying Leonard’s minutes given the lack of floor spacing. Remember, his shot was broken.  While it’s silly to penalize Kawhi for ending up a Spur with all that entails since he had no choice in the matter, it makes sense to praise their skill in developing him and his own hard work to totally reinvent his offensive game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PulseGlazerParticipant]

 I hate the swap the players argument.  Let’s go through some reasons:

1. You have no idea how they would fare in reversed roles. You can assume based on anecdotal evidence and some scouting, but it’s just a giant guess.  

2. You can use it to make any silly argument you want.  Beal over Klay? Sure.  Harden over Curry? How’s that one looking.  KG over Duncan?  Even some really crazy ones like all the guys who supposedly could do what Draymond is doing (p.s. no one could).

3. It just shows you haven’t been watching Spurs games this year. Kawhi is scoring a ton off isolations and he’s shooting ridiculous percentages.

4. As good as George is on D, Kawhi is still the DPOY who is now heading a historically great defense and has shut down George, KD, and plenty of others 1-4 this year.

5. George is thriving in an offensive system that is as similar to the Spurs own as is possible.

Instead of comparing players using silly hypotheticals, compare where they are now.  Right now, Kawhi just owned George. They are, in some order, the numbers 3 and 4 wings in the NBA.  George handles higher usage and more minutes, though he may be wearing down already. Kawhi is more efficient, better on defense (team and individual) and has performed well on a bigger stage.  Who you think is better is debatable, but some hypothetical that means nothing and is unprovable just doesn’t help either side.

Also, as far as them being teammates? Sure, that would have rocked, but without SA, Kawhi may not have learned to shoot. You would have then had two lockdown wing defenders, but trouble justifying Leonard’s minutes given the lack of floor spacing. Remember, his shot was broken.  While it’s silly to penalize Kawhi for ending up a Spur with all that entails since he had no choice in the matter, it makes sense to praise their skill in developing him and his own hard work to totally reinvent his offensive game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DukeDaSquadParticipant]

 I know Kawhi is the better defender, i am not arguing that. George is the better offensive player. But the player swap argument definitely applies here because these rosters are in no way comparable to each other. To start the season San Antonio were (and still are) considered title favorites by alot of people. On the Spurs Kawhi has to focus on being a lockdown defender because even if he does have a bad shooting night his teammates can pick up the slack.

George is a good defender and he would probably be considered even better if his main priority on the court was to focus on being a defender first but that is not the case. Not saying that he would be the level of defender Kawhi is in terms of just straight up ripping the top ballhandlers and getting blocks but in terms of being "on someone’s ass" all game and forcing them into contested shots all night, I definitely think he could do that. 

And I would like you to tell me how The Spurs and The Pacers offensive systems are similar

 

 

[DukeDaSquadParticipant]

 I know Kawhi is the better defender, i am not arguing that. George is the better offensive player. But the player swap argument definitely applies here because these rosters are in no way comparable to each other. To start the season San Antonio were (and still are) considered title favorites by alot of people. On the Spurs Kawhi has to focus on being a lockdown defender because even if he does have a bad shooting night his teammates can pick up the slack.

George is a good defender and he would probably be considered even better if his main priority on the court was to focus on being a defender first but that is not the case. Not saying that he would be the level of defender Kawhi is in terms of just straight up ripping the top ballhandlers and getting blocks but in terms of being "on someone’s ass" all game and forcing them into contested shots all night, I definitely think he could do that. 

And I would like you to tell me how The Spurs and The Pacers offensive systems are similar

 

 

[Andrew1984Participant]

 PulseGlazer, 

Your content is always insightful and well-put. I thoroughly enjoy reading your material. 

 

[Andrew1984Participant]

 PulseGlazer, 

Your content is always insightful and well-put. I thoroughly enjoy reading your material. 

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Paul George had a rough night. Kawhi Leonard played great defense, but credit the Spurs’ defensive game plan and the overall team defense. They did a great job of swarming him. They were aggressive defending him in P&R and he had the attention of two or three defenders when he did get into the paint, where the refs allowed A LOT of contact. I also noticed that the gameplan was for Leonard to not help at all. He just shadowed George the whole game. They did a great job of forcing George to be more of a playmaker/passer. I’m actually impressed with the role players on the Pacers because the Spurs gameplan was to make them beat them and they actually kept this game very close. 

As far as who’s better, I don’t think one game can tell you that. Of their 10 "head to head" matchups, it’s the first matchup Leonard has won. Both players are in such different situations too. Not to disrespect Leonard, but George has a much bigger load. The Spurs are such a better team. I mean, they’re loaded and their roster fits. They’re just on a different level. The Pacers are kind of starting over. It’s going to take some time. They’re overachieving this season.

One thing is clear… George seems to be hitting somewhat of a mini wall, which isn’t surprising since he missed 99.5% of last season. While he’s 100% healthy, I don’t think he’s regained all of his athleticism or just explosion finishing with contact. He needs to get A LOT stronger this summer. That’s one of the main areas I feel Leonard has a big advantage right now. He has a stronger body which allows him to play more physical around the basket and defensively. 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Paul George had a rough night. Kawhi Leonard played great defense, but credit the Spurs’ defensive game plan and the overall team defense. They did a great job of swarming him. They were aggressive defending him in P&R and he had the attention of two or three defenders when he did get into the paint, where the refs allowed A LOT of contact. I also noticed that the gameplan was for Leonard to not help at all. He just shadowed George the whole game. They did a great job of forcing George to be more of a playmaker/passer. I’m actually impressed with the role players on the Pacers because the Spurs gameplan was to make them beat them and they actually kept this game very close. 

As far as who’s better, I don’t think one game can tell you that. Of their 10 "head to head" matchups, it’s the first matchup Leonard has won. Both players are in such different situations too. Not to disrespect Leonard, but George has a much bigger load. The Spurs are such a better team. I mean, they’re loaded and their roster fits. They’re just on a different level. The Pacers are kind of starting over. It’s going to take some time. They’re overachieving this season.

One thing is clear… George seems to be hitting somewhat of a mini wall, which isn’t surprising since he missed 99.5% of last season. While he’s 100% healthy, I don’t think he’s regained all of his athleticism or just explosion finishing with contact. He needs to get A LOT stronger this summer. That’s one of the main areas I feel Leonard has a big advantage right now. He has a stronger body which allows him to play more physical around the basket and defensively. 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

 5 "head to head" games*** 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

 5 "head to head" games*** 

[treytalkssports.comParticipant]

While Kawhi has played with great players, he has also carried them at times. Let’s not throw out Kawhi’s amazing production just because he plays with good players. That being said, would his production be as high without great players next to him? Probably not as high. 

On the other side of things, we can’t just ignore that George is a career 43% shooter from the field, while Leonard is a career 50% from the field. George is a career 37% from 3, while Leonard is a career 39% shooter from 3. 

I’m not sure George would be as efficient or good as Leonard playing with other great players like the Spurs team. He simply isn’t as efficient. Much of George’s numbers are inflated because of a ridiculous 31% usage rate, compared to Leonards 24%. 

It’s kinda’ apples to oranges because of efficincy, usage rates, and teammates. Both great players. 

 

 

 

 

 

[treytalkssports.comParticipant]

While Kawhi has played with great players, he has also carried them at times. Let’s not throw out Kawhi’s amazing production just because he plays with good players. That being said, would his production be as high without great players next to him? Probably not as high. 

On the other side of things, we can’t just ignore that George is a career 43% shooter from the field, while Leonard is a career 50% from the field. George is a career 37% from 3, while Leonard is a career 39% shooter from 3. 

I’m not sure George would be as efficient or good as Leonard playing with other great players like the Spurs team. He simply isn’t as efficient. Much of George’s numbers are inflated because of a ridiculous 31% usage rate, compared to Leonards 24%. 

It’s kinda’ apples to oranges because of efficincy, usage rates, and teammates. Both great players. 

 

 

 

 

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

The Pacers offense sucked for years. The paint clogged, no open driving lanes, no spacing, etc. George has also never played with another player who could get him easy baskets. This is the first season George has been able to play in an offense with decent spacing and open driving lanes, even though the personnel isn’t a great fit and there’s still nobody who gets him easy baskets. 

It’s all hypothetical, but I think his career percentages would be higher if not for playing in such a garbage offense most of his career.

 

 

 

 

[treytalkssports.comParticipant]

 You may be right. In more of an open court system, he numbers are similar so far. 

We will know for sure over the next few seasons. 

 

 

[treytalkssports.comParticipant]

 You may be right. In more of an open court system, he numbers are similar so far. 

We will know for sure over the next few seasons. 

 

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

The Pacers offense sucked for years. The paint clogged, no open driving lanes, no spacing, etc. George has also never played with another player who could get him easy baskets. This is the first season George has been able to play in an offense with decent spacing and open driving lanes, even though the personnel isn’t a great fit and there’s still nobody who gets him easy baskets. 

It’s all hypothetical, but I think his career percentages would be higher if not for playing in such a garbage offense most of his career.

 

 

 

 

[Author]

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