[sammybuckeye13Participant]

There has been a lot of talk lately about the Jazz’s struggles. It’s the main discussion on the daily dime today on ESPN. According to Marc Stein, "a number of GMs in the league now believe Granger could be had for two major assets…What is Indiana looking for? Ideally it’d get a power forward and a 2-guard who can create his own shot off the dribble. It would take a pretty big package for Indiana to let go of Granger, but it sounds like, for the first time, he’s no longer untouchable." So here’s my idea:

Pacers get:

Paul Millsap, Gordon Hayward and 2011 1st rd pick

Jazz get 

Danny Granger

I find it hard to believe that a core of Deron/Granger/Jefferson, with Kirilenko, Okur and Miles, would not be enough to contend in the West. At the very least it would give Deron hope. This team just needs to be rejuvenated and they will have trouble competing with a 6-8 PF and 6-10 C. They can just put Okur or Fesenko at C for now.

The Pacers get that great athletic 4 to pair with Hibbert down low and the shot-creating (in the future), upside 2-guard and a first round pick to help rebuild. If need be, I think you could even replace Miles for Hayward and the Jazz would still go for it.

[espn365Participant]

It’s a reasonable trade for both teams, but 9 out of 10 times the team that gets the best player in the trade wins out (Utah). The Pacers would lose the only player that can really get his own shot and wouldn’t be getting enough in return. Millsap is a very good player, but still undersized.  Hayward is pretty far away from his potential (but bringing in an immediate fan favorite would be great) and a probable late 1st rounder in a relatively weak draft isn’t enough to trade a guy who was untouchable 9 months ago. If the Pacers 2010 first round pick Paul George stepped up or showed real flashes of stardom then everything changes, however until that happens Granger probably isn’t going anywhere.  Utah would jump on the trade if Indiana were to throw some money to help close the gap between Millsap and Granger’s contracts.

 

[GlenTaylorSucksParticipant]

This sounds like an okay deal, but doesn’t Utah’s first rounder this year belong to the Wolves? 

[kgreeley20Participant]

It looks like a good deal though would granger play the 3 or 4? If he plays the 3 would that mean Okur and Jefferson will play the 4 and 5? If Utah did do this deal and granger plays the 3 than they need to look for a big man to backup Okur and Jefferson

[BKKnicksfanParticipant]

So Indiana gives up thier franchise player for a above average, but undersized big, a rookie and a 2011 1st round pick in the 20’s?

 

Righhhhhhttt.

[sammybuckeye13Participant]

I think the Wolves actually do have the Jazz’s 1st rounder this year, you’re right, so let’s just make it the 2012 first rounder then. I would see Utah’s rotation as:

PG – Williams/Watson/Price

SG – Bell/Miles

SF – Granger/Kirilenko

PF – Jefferson/Evans

C – Okur/Elson/Fesenko

 

[SwatLakeCityParticipant]

 I think if Utah were to accept this deal they would want to include the expiring contract of AK and try and get something out of it. They like Millsap because he is Mighty Mouse and he always plays well for them. Besides with your proposed trade AK would have to play out of position at the 4 giving Utah a small look. I don’t think Jerry Sloan wants to go into games featuring a small lineup with  a 4 playing out of position. The lineup I would think would happen is this, Dwill, Bell, Granger, AK, Jefferson (A little small)

Here’s a trade that I propose involving AK’s expiring contract which I think would actually help all 3 teams.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4w7nh7m

Indiana has been looking for away to get rid of TJ Ford. They are in desperate need of a 4 but Utah would probably not accept Millsap for Ford. Utah has no room for Ford. Indiana could also use some Defense and AK can certainly provide. He can even get some major blocks.

The Cavs are struggling and could some real help. This is probably the best offer they will get for Jamison who I think could really help the Pacers. Dunleavy for Parker is a real bargain. Dunleavy can score about 8-10 points a game but is bigger and get more rebounds. Dunleavy can also play the 3 which the Cavs have been really struggling to fill up trying something different each game. The Cavs could really use just about anybody as long as it will help them. This trade would pose a race for Mo Williams and TJ Ford and quite possibly Ford could start or at least backup Williams allowing Gibson to play the 2 guard.

The Jazz could really use a 2 guard. Bell is not playing that well, but it seems that Sloan will not go to Miles at the Bell and sit Bell. (This is what Sloan should do, but it doesn’t look like its going to happen) This trade gives Utah a 2 in Parker and allows Bell and Parker to fight for the starting position which I think could give Bell the boost as well as Parker. Even if Parker comes off the bench, he gives Utah another bench scorer which Utah desperately since the only one they have is CJ Miles. It will be sad to see AK go but if you can get Granger and Parker how could you refuse?

[BKKnicksfanParticipant]

So you really think the Pacers would take Milsap and AK for Granger

 

That makes ZERO sense for Indiana. Thye could get more for Granger. They don’t need cap space either considering most of thier team’s contracts are up in 2011. Granger could be moved for alot mofe then that.

[SwatLakeCityParticipant]

Jazz Lineups after trade: Dwill, Bell, Granger, Millsap, Jefferson with Price or Watson, Parker, Miles, Okur, Fez coming off the bench

Pacers Lineups after trade: Collison, Rush, AK, Jamison, Hibbert with Price, Jones, George, Hansbrough and Foster/McRoberts coming off the bench.

Cavs Lineups after trade: TJ Ford, Mo Williams, Dunleavy, Hickson, Hollins (Since Varejao is out for the season) With Gibson, Harris, Graham, Moon, and Powe coming off the bench

[sammybuckeye13Participant]

I think that’s a good deal for all involved but it doesn’t solve Utah’s fundamental problem, which only few people seem to realize: they CANNOT contend with a 6-8 PF and non defensive minded 6-10 center in this league. I am a Jazz fan. I love Millsap and think Al’s a borderline top-tier player. But they will continue to get routed by the Lakers and any team that can score inside (be it with post scoring or players driving to the basket constantly like the Spurs). I think Al is more naturally a back-to-the-basket 4 and they should try to move Millsap because this team just can’t go anywhere with both of them down low. 28th in rebounding and neither is an above-average post defender, and Jefferson, with his combination of size and skill set, even if he isn’t as likable as Millsap, is the better piece.

[BKKnicksfanParticipant]

Andrey Blatche, Al Thornton, Kirk Hinrich and a 2011 1st round pick for Danny Granger, James Posey and Tyler Hansbrough

That’s a better deal.

[franfranParticipant]

Granger and TJ Ford X Jammal Crowford, Marvin Williams and draft pick 11 and 12

Indiana 

PG: Collison

SG: Jammal

SF: George

PF: Tyler

C: Hibbert

Atlanta

PG: Biby

SG: JoJo

SF: Danny

PF: Smith

C: Horford

 

[SwatLakeCityParticipant]

 Sammy Buckeye You are completely wrong with both of your statements

First of all "the Jazz cannot contend with a non-defensive minded 6’10 center in this league" How is Big AL non-defensive minded? He gets at least 1-2 blocks a game. Last time I checked blocks are major factor for all big men. If you can’t block and you are a big man then you are not considered a defensive minded big man. Big AL can block shots (He does so in every game) so yes he is a defensive minded center.

And second: The Jazz can’t contend with a 6’8 PF." I would have agreed with you earlier except for in November the Jazz just proved that they can. They were 13 and 3 in November and they had the same lineup that they do now: Dwill, Bell, AK, Millsap, and Big Al. Last time I checked 13-3 in one month is contending. If they can do it in one month then they can certainly do it in all. 

The Jazz do not have a problem down low. They have problems on the wings. They may not be grabbing to many rebounds but Millsap is not the problem with this. Actually Millsap is doing all he can to grab every rebound possible. That’s just the kind of guy he is. Blue Collar guy who will go after every loose ball, play hard every night no matter how undersized he may be. He is the perfect Jerry Sloan player. He would never allow upper management to get rid of him because he loves him that much. If he truly though the Jazz had a problem down low then he would have tried to change the Lineup to fix that problem. He would have tried to use Big AL at center and put Memo or Fez in the starting lineup, did he, NO. He would have tried to use AK as a 4 and put Miles at the 3, Bell at the 2, and let Millsap come off the bench to back up AK. Did he, NO. Instead what did he do against Philly and LA, he changed the wings. He used Hayward and then tried Miles. Now I know the Jazz both got killed in those games but in no way do I believe that this is because the Jazz tried to change their lineups. I believe it is because Sloan tried the wrong lineup. And no I do not believe that Millsap or Big AL should have been moved. But instead Bell. Miles should have been played the 2 and Bell should have moved to the bench instead of AK. Jerry Sloan can just preach to his guys the importance of rebounding and they will do so.  They’ve just had a rough stretch of games because they stuck to the same things they did early in the season. Which was to start out slow and rely on the 3rd and 4th quarters to come back and play with all sorts of energy. This will never and this is what needs to be fixed. That does include rebounds but in a bigger sense it means ENERGY. And Bell is biggest culprit of this Non-energy which is one big reason why I believe he should be benched.

Further reasoning why Jazz should make the trade that I proposed earlier:

The Jazz biggest need has always been a 2 not a guy down low. The only 2’s that would be ideal for Utah to go after are Iggy, Mayo and Rip Hamilton. But we don’t have the assets to get these players. Philly already has an expiring contract in Brand why would they want another with AK. Hamilton has an expiring contract with Detroit, so why they trade Hamilton just to get another expiring contract with AK. And Memphis has clearly not expressed any desire to trade Mayo, why would they trade Mayo to the Jazz then and they also have an expiring contract in Zach Randolph why would they want another one? This means that there is no way the Jazz can get a 2 guard via trade before the trade deadline. They will have to do it in free agency or through the draft. That is why I am willing to accept Danny Granger even though he does not play the 2. But I still realize that the 2 is the Jazz weakest link so that is why I propose we strengthen that by adding Parker. In no way is he going to solve the problem the Jazz have but at least he can help. They can later trade Bell and Parker for someone they do need when their drafted 2 (Jordan Hamilton or William Buford) have grown into the 2 that Utah needs them to be. 

The biggest reason why I would accept Granger is because I truly believe that he is a second option. The Jazz seem to have no second option that can play consistently great every game. Sometimes Jefferson shows up but sometimes he doesn’t. Same with Millsap. AK’s contract is taking any room the Jazz have to get a second-option player. So why not trade AK and his humongous contract for a second-option player. Ala, Granger. 

[apb540Participant]

I know the Sixers said they don’t wanna trade away Iggy or Brand but…

Utah gets:  Elton Brand and Andre Iguodala

Philly gets:  AK-47 and Paul Milsap and possibly a future first (might be a lil too much?)

 

[BKKnicksfanParticipant]

If you know Philly doesn’t wanna move AI and Brand…why throw them in a deal?

[omphalosParticipant]

I don’t like hearing this talk of the Pacers needing "a 2-guard who can create his own shot off the dribble" when they have Lance Stephenson just sitting there.

[BigDParticipant]

Elton Brand an expiring contract? Really?

The Jazz could easily pick up a stronger 2 guard, Kirilenko’s expiring contract would be attractive to other teams. But i wouldn’t trade for a 2 guard that doesn’t play much defense like Parker, Raja Bell is a hard-nosed defensive stopper, for the likes of Kobe. Paul Millsap is the player that needs to go the most. Paul Millsap on the likes of Nowitzki or Gasol doesn’t really work all that well, Jefferson at the PF would match up against elite teams a lot better.

[apb540Participant]

Cuz I want to trade them 

[bigblackNbeautifulParticipant]

 If some how this deal went down…. I would want to swing ak47 contract for a center. possibly a biendrins or someone of that type of caliber someone who can defend and block shots and rebound….

 

I always thought bringing in al would cause us probs… I still thinking being subpar this year then signing marc gasol and a sg next year prob would have been a better choice.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

You Jazz fans are the worst at making trades. You create trade deals that benefit your team and not the other. Just lopsided trades that make zero sense.

This would be a terrible deal for the Pacers. We could get back more for Granger than Millsap and Hayward. Hayward hasn’t created a shot for himself all season and has confidence issues. I mean, I get it… Hayward is from Indiana. That doesn’t mean the Pacers want him.

 

[BKKnicksfanParticipant]

Glad I’m not the only one who thought this. A franchise player…for Paul Milsap and AK47. Think about it.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

And then he states at the end of his post that the Jazz could even substitute Miles in for Hayward and the deal would still work lol. So Millsap and Miles for Granger… Wow.

[BKKnicksfanParticipant]

Yea, because Indiana doesn’t need Granger. Hell, Eddy Curry and Landry Fields for Granger…..that works! lol

 

Indiana, let me ask: Would you do Anthony Randolph for Tyler Hansbrough and a 1st round pick(protected) ?

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I’d give up a first round pick (lottery protected) for Randolph, but not Hansbrough AND the pick.

I know the Pacers are interested in Randolph. I think Bird looks at Randolph somewhat similar to how he looked at Jermaine O’Neal while he was in Portland… Thinking that with coaching, hard work and opportunity, he could develop into a very good player.

I’m not sure about Randolph and his *potential* though.

[BKKnicksfanParticipant]

I only ask because that’s one of my favorite 2K11 trades lol.

[SwatLakeCityParticipant]

 So if Utah would be SO MUCH better off with using Big AL at the 4 instead of the 5 then why did Sloan start Francisco Elson when Millsap was hurt? Why didn’t he try and start Fez at the 5 and slide Jefferson to the 4? (Millsap was hurt for one game during the season.) Sloan is NOT a moron. He knows what he is doing. The center is one of the most important positions in the game today (besides the point guard) Sloan knows this and so that is why he is having his BEST big man guard the opposing team’s center. Trust that Sloan knows what he is doing therefore the problem is at the wing not down low.

It looks as if Utah will have to wait until the drat comes around to find their ideal 2 guard that they desperately need. Hopefully Alec Burks falls to them, if not then either Jordan Hamilton or William Buford will do.

[BigDParticipant]

Francisco Elson is someting like 6’11 or 7’0. And he is rather skinny so he is basically a 4 man himself, but can play stretches of 5 man against a bigger PF. Yes his best big man is defending the opposing centre, because Millsap wouldn’t be able to defend the likes of Howard, Bynum, Chandler, Shaq, Noah, even Big Z because of his length on the boards. Al Jefferson defends the likes of these guys a lot better.

But Millsap can’t defend the elite PF’s of the game which Utah will need to do if they want to contend for a championship. Do you really think Millsap can defend the likes of Nowitzki, Gasol, Garnett, Boozer. He isn’t a good post defender at all, he doesn’t have the length  or the height to bother these guys. Jefferson is a relative good defensive big man, and could defend all those PF’s mentioned above without a major problem. Millsap can’t.

Raja Bell is there for defensive purposes against the likes of Kobe, Wade etc. Elite SG’s. A bit similar to a Bruce Bowen role. If anything CJ Miles should be coming off the bench to play in the 2/3 spots while Bell sticks to his defensive role.

But bottom line if Utah wants to contend for a championship sometime soon, they have to find a good defensive big man who can match the likes of Howard, Bynum etc, as mentioned above. Jefferson can defend the elite PF’s of the game and could be a mismatch on the other side due to his footwork and strength. He would create more problems for the likes of Nowitzki, Gasol, Garnett then what Millsap would.

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