[lakeshow22Participant]

5’9 Isaiah Thomas has to be the most underrated player in the NBA and should be the front runner for MIP. Thomas is averaging 20 PPG on just 14.6 FGA on 46% and nearly 40% from 3 to go along with 6 assists. He Dropped 38 on the pacers last night just a few days after he had 38 against the thunder. His 22 PER ranks 17th in the league and he gets to the FTA 5.6 times per game which is 4th amongst all point guards. He’s played at an All Star Level this season even in the crowded west. He obviously wont make it because of the competition at his position and his team record but he deserves honorable mention. I don’t ever hear anybody talk about Thomas but I think its time to consider him one of the better point guards in the league. Quite honestly I don’t think he’s that far from Damian Lillard. Obviously Lillard is the better player but its WAY closer than most might think, and actually Thomas has the better stats and analytics.

[ball4life23Participant]

I know, I agree.

[ball4life23Participant]

I know, I agree.

[Mad MaxParticipant]

 

Westbrook

Parker

Curry

 

 

[Mad MaxParticipant]

 

Westbrook

Parker

Curry

 

 

[AmiableBaller34Participant]

 I don’t want to be that guy, but he’s a 5’9 point guard on a team that hasn’t won more than 30 games in his entire career. If the Kings were a good team, than you would see him getting abused every night by opposing coaches and players. You can bet that every player will put him in the post, and is that a mismatch you think you can present every single play? If Rondo isn’t considered elite by many people because he has a shooting deficiency, then how can we consider IT elite when he will always be a defensive liability? I like Thomas, and think he could be a great role player on a championship team, but unfortunately he plays in a league where size, strength, and athleticism actually plays a huge role. It’s why you have guys like joe alexander and Hasheem Thabeet going in the lottery. 

[BasketBalAllanParticipant]

Thomas isn’t as bad defensively as people make him out to be, It is much harder to back him down than people think. Opposing guards post him up every game only to find that they really only excel at passing out of that position because the Kings rotate poorly. He is working on his defense, specifically closing the amount of space he gives his man on D as this has been a problem of his this year. 

[BasketBalAllanParticipant]

Thomas isn’t as bad defensively as people make him out to be, It is much harder to back him down than people think. Opposing guards post him up every game only to find that they really only excel at passing out of that position because the Kings rotate poorly. He is working on his defense, specifically closing the amount of space he gives his man on D as this has been a problem of his this year. 

[lakeshow22Participant]

 Do u even watch kings games? Not many teams try to post him up and when they do it usually gets them no where. His size will always be an issue but he’s not as bad defensively as most assume. what r guys like Lillard, Irving and curry excuse for being poor defenders? Cause Thomas isn’t any worst than them on that end

[AmiableBaller34Participant]

It has nothing to do with backing a player down, but any competent coach would exploid the obvious size differential. The Kings’ D is so bad that they don’t even need to exploit this yet, but at the end of the day, if a team really needs a basket against the Kings, all they have to do is set a pick and roll on Isaiah and have their taller offensive player take a shot over him. It’s really that simple, and it doesn’t matter how hard he tries on D. Creating mismatches is half the game in the NBA 

[BasketBalAllanParticipant]

Interesting… you should consider coaching then because I have yet to see anyone take full advantage of these obviously easy points.

[BasketBalAllanParticipant]

Interesting… you should consider coaching then because I have yet to see anyone take full advantage of these obviously easy points.

[AmiableBaller34Participant]

It has nothing to do with backing a player down, but any competent coach would exploid the obvious size differential. The Kings’ D is so bad that they don’t even need to exploit this yet, but at the end of the day, if a team really needs a basket against the Kings, all they have to do is set a pick and roll on Isaiah and have their taller offensive player take a shot over him. It’s really that simple, and it doesn’t matter how hard he tries on D. Creating mismatches is half the game in the NBA 

[lakeshow22Participant]

 Do u even watch kings games? Not many teams try to post him up and when they do it usually gets them no where. His size will always be an issue but he’s not as bad defensively as most assume. what r guys like Lillard, Irving and curry excuse for being poor defenders? Cause Thomas isn’t any worst than them on that end

[AmiableBaller34Participant]

 I don’t want to be that guy, but he’s a 5’9 point guard on a team that hasn’t won more than 30 games in his entire career. If the Kings were a good team, than you would see him getting abused every night by opposing coaches and players. You can bet that every player will put him in the post, and is that a mismatch you think you can present every single play? If Rondo isn’t considered elite by many people because he has a shooting deficiency, then how can we consider IT elite when he will always be a defensive liability? I like Thomas, and think he could be a great role player on a championship team, but unfortunately he plays in a league where size, strength, and athleticism actually plays a huge role. It’s why you have guys like joe alexander and Hasheem Thabeet going in the lottery. 

[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

 Zeke is Nice!

[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

 Zeke is Nice!

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Yes he is a very good point guard with elite skills, but….. He is on a bad team so his stats are inflated a bit and his style of play doesn’t really translate to winning basketball.

I can name 15 point guards I would take over him, so I wouldn’t consider him elite….Just look at a list of starting point guards in the NBA and I bet you wouldn’t put him in the top 10 (the elite).

[BasketBalAllanParticipant]

Would you care to elaborate on why his style of play doesn’t lead to winning games?

[contestwinnerParticipant]

When is the last time a team won a championship with a me-first type of point guard. I would rather my point guard get 14 points 10 assists than 20 points and 6 assists. The assists are going to be able to translate to winning against good defensive teams. I’m not saying he is a bad point guard, but I would rather have a Ricky Rubio for the sake of winning games (also, Rubio is pretty fun to watch).

[BasketBalAllanParticipant]

I do not classify him as a me-first type PG in the 24 games since Gay has arrived on the Kings Thomas is averaging 7.33 APG. Which is right there with many PGS people consider to be great distributors. Just because he is better at scoring than most of those other players doesn’t mean he is going to lose his team games.

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Well then why aren’t they winning games… They have a good enough roster to be a .500 team. Also, you don’t factor in that many of his points may be garbage points, as opposed to Lillard’s high scoring average while being on a top tier team in the west.

Let’s not get too statistical here, I’ve seen games of the point guards and I don’t see Thomas as elite, but more of player who is good, but doesn’t get credit because he is on a terrible team. Which is how it should be…lets reward winners. I’ll give Thomas more credit if he can lead his capable Kings team to a winning record.

[BasketBalAllanParticipant]

Umm… Garbage points? Now that certainly isn’t something I have ever seen in a box score. 

 

To answer your question though; the Kings are not winning as often as they should because while Cousins, Gay, and Isaiah are doing great the rest of the team is playing terribly. This is most evident at the SG position where you either see Bmac (.36 fg%) or Thornton (.38 fg%). If you add this to the fact that Carl Landry has been out all year with an injury and that the current roster has only been together a little over a month you start to get why they are not yet a .500 team.

 

You can not just say that Isaiah’s achievements do not count because his team isn’t winning as much because there are 12 other people suited up for every game.

 

 

 

 

[contestwinnerParticipant]

What I’m saying is Thomas has 2 very good players to work with and some other decent players. An elite point guard with this talent would win more games, but I’ll still give him some time since this trio hasn’t been around long.

I don’t know what you are arguing about with me now honestly… All I’m trying to say is that I don’t think he is elite. Another note I would like to add is that his height is an issue… His window of opportunity is less due to the fact that his athleticism will diminish through time. This happened with Iverson.

Also, Thomas doesn’t really have any achievements worth noting in the NBA, so I’m not sure where you were going there….

Garbage points = when your team has no chance of winning the game, and the other team puts in reserves.

Just wondering where would you rank Thomas on a list of the NBA’s top point guards?

[contestwinnerParticipant]

What I’m saying is Thomas has 2 very good players to work with and some other decent players. An elite point guard with this talent would win more games, but I’ll still give him some time since this trio hasn’t been around long.

I don’t know what you are arguing about with me now honestly… All I’m trying to say is that I don’t think he is elite. Another note I would like to add is that his height is an issue… His window of opportunity is less due to the fact that his athleticism will diminish through time. This happened with Iverson.

Also, Thomas doesn’t really have any achievements worth noting in the NBA, so I’m not sure where you were going there….

Garbage points = when your team has no chance of winning the game, and the other team puts in reserves.

Just wondering where would you rank Thomas on a list of the NBA’s top point guards?

[BasketBalAllanParticipant]

By achievements I was talking about his statistics, specifically how efficient he has been in putting up big numbers.

 

 

I do not think his height will be a factor with diminishing athleticism for at least another 10 years (if it does actually happen ) so why even worry about that right now?

 

Garbage points are only really applicable in the last half of the fourth quarter when your team is either up or down big (when the points will not really have an impact on the games result). This is normally when end-of-bench players grab the most time So I do not really apply it to most starters in the NBA. 

I do not see him as elite but I see him as close. The only elite PGs in the NBA right now (imo) are CP3, Westbrook,  and Curry. Players who are close Parker, Lillard, Lowry, Wall, Irving, Lawson, Conley, Bledsoe, and Thomas. You can rank them however you want but there are only 4 of them that I can say I would clearly take over Isaiah this season.

 

 

[BasketBalAllanParticipant]

By achievements I was talking about his statistics, specifically how efficient he has been in putting up big numbers.

 

 

I do not think his height will be a factor with diminishing athleticism for at least another 10 years (if it does actually happen ) so why even worry about that right now?

 

Garbage points are only really applicable in the last half of the fourth quarter when your team is either up or down big (when the points will not really have an impact on the games result). This is normally when end-of-bench players grab the most time So I do not really apply it to most starters in the NBA. 

I do not see him as elite but I see him as close. The only elite PGs in the NBA right now (imo) are CP3, Westbrook,  and Curry. Players who are close Parker, Lillard, Lowry, Wall, Irving, Lawson, Conley, Bledsoe, and Thomas. You can rank them however you want but there are only 4 of them that I can say I would clearly take over Isaiah this season.

 

 

[Jester87Participant]

Dear Lord, Parker has dominated Nba finals in the past and he’s not elite. Also, Goran Dragic is not getting enough credit in this board. He and not Bledsoe has been the core player for the Suns this year. Obviously Bledsoe is going to be better in the future because he still has a lot of potential, but Dragic this year has been outstanding for a winning team, I can’t understand how nobody is considering him in any point guard related topic and guys like Irving, who’s having a disappointing season, or Lowry, who’s having a great season but not as good as Dragic, are always ranked ahead of him.

[Jester87Participant]

Dear Lord, Parker has dominated Nba finals in the past and he’s not elite. Also, Goran Dragic is not getting enough credit in this board. He and not Bledsoe has been the core player for the Suns this year. Obviously Bledsoe is going to be better in the future because he still has a lot of potential, but Dragic this year has been outstanding for a winning team, I can’t understand how nobody is considering him in any point guard related topic and guys like Irving, who’s having a disappointing season, or Lowry, who’s having a great season but not as good as Dragic, are always ranked ahead of him.

[BasketBalAllanParticipant]

I do not think Parker is playing at an elite level this season, he certainly has in the past and very well could step it up this post season, I was just saying he is on the cusp with his play these last few months. 

 

With Dragic I have to say you are right, I f@cked up. Dragic has had a great year and deserves credit for His play.

 

 

[BasketBalAllanParticipant]

I do not think Parker is playing at an elite level this season, he certainly has in the past and very well could step it up this post season, I was just saying he is on the cusp with his play these last few months. 

 

With Dragic I have to say you are right, I f@cked up. Dragic has had a great year and deserves credit for His play.

 

 

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Ok, then we agree that Thomas is not elite…not sure why you are getting so mad…

But I think he is farther from elite than you’re making it out to be.

I would rather have Chris Paul, Stephen Curry, John Wall, Tony Parker, Rajon Rondo, Derrick Rose (yes even now), Kyrie Irving, Damian Lillard, Ty Lawson, Jrue Holiday (has a nice all around game), Ricky Rubio, Eric Bledsoe, MCW, Mike Conley, Kemba Walker, and Goran Dragic … that’s what I could think of off the top of my head

Also, I think if Reggie Jackson and Thomas switched teams, that Jackson could put up similar numbers…

Thomas is a serviceable point guard, but he’s far from elite.

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Ok, then we agree that Thomas is not elite…not sure why you are getting so mad…

But I think he is farther from elite than you’re making it out to be.

I would rather have Chris Paul, Stephen Curry, John Wall, Tony Parker, Rajon Rondo, Derrick Rose (yes even now), Kyrie Irving, Damian Lillard, Ty Lawson, Jrue Holiday (has a nice all around game), Ricky Rubio, Eric Bledsoe, MCW, Mike Conley, Kemba Walker, and Goran Dragic … that’s what I could think of off the top of my head

Also, I think if Reggie Jackson and Thomas switched teams, that Jackson could put up similar numbers…

Thomas is a serviceable point guard, but he’s far from elite.

[BasketBalAllanParticipant]

If I am coming across angry I assure you that I am not.

I just disagree that he doesn’t belong up there with Wall and Irving with how well he has played so far. I am waiting to see what Rondo and Rose look like when they get back into the swing of things which is why I did not mention them.

 

[BasketBalAllanParticipant]

If I am coming across angry I assure you that I am not.

I just disagree that he doesn’t belong up there with Wall and Irving with how well he has played so far. I am waiting to see what Rondo and Rose look like when they get back into the swing of things which is why I did not mention them.

 

[lakeshow22Participant]

 How many point guards in the NBA can average 20ppg as a 3rd option with his efficiency? 3? Thomas isn’t worst than MCW, Conley, Lawson, walker, Rubio, and dragic.

[lakeshow22Participant]

 How many point guards in the NBA can average 20ppg as a 3rd option with his efficiency? 3? Thomas isn’t worst than MCW, Conley, Lawson, walker, Rubio, and dragic.

[lakeshow22Participant]

So do Wall and Irving only get garbage points? Where have they led there teams? Where has Kevin Love gotten his team? 

[lakeshow22Participant]

So do Wall and Irving only get garbage points? Where have they led there teams? Where has Kevin Love gotten his team? 

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Who does Kyrie have to work with…Luol Deng is about it…They don’t have the talent to win.

Wall does get garbage points (stat inflator for sure…he’s on my fantasy team), but I still like Wall to turn around the Wizards

Same with Kevin Love… the Wolves are one decent player away from being a playoff team in the west.
Love averages a nice amount of assists for putting up 25 points 13 rebounds a game.. they play a lot of close games too.

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Who does Kyrie have to work with…Luol Deng is about it…They don’t have the talent to win.

Wall does get garbage points (stat inflator for sure…he’s on my fantasy team), but I still like Wall to turn around the Wizards

Same with Kevin Love… the Wolves are one decent player away from being a playoff team in the west.
Love averages a nice amount of assists for putting up 25 points 13 rebounds a game.. they play a lot of close games too.

[BasketBalAllanParticipant]

Umm… Garbage points? Now that certainly isn’t something I have ever seen in a box score. 

 

To answer your question though; the Kings are not winning as often as they should because while Cousins, Gay, and Isaiah are doing great the rest of the team is playing terribly. This is most evident at the SG position where you either see Bmac (.36 fg%) or Thornton (.38 fg%). If you add this to the fact that Carl Landry has been out all year with an injury and that the current roster has only been together a little over a month you start to get why they are not yet a .500 team.

 

You can not just say that Isaiah’s achievements do not count because his team isn’t winning as much because there are 12 other people suited up for every game.

 

 

 

 

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Well then why aren’t they winning games… They have a good enough roster to be a .500 team. Also, you don’t factor in that many of his points may be garbage points, as opposed to Lillard’s high scoring average while being on a top tier team in the west.

Let’s not get too statistical here, I’ve seen games of the point guards and I don’t see Thomas as elite, but more of player who is good, but doesn’t get credit because he is on a terrible team. Which is how it should be…lets reward winners. I’ll give Thomas more credit if he can lead his capable Kings team to a winning record.

[BasketBalAllanParticipant]

I do not classify him as a me-first type PG in the 24 games since Gay has arrived on the Kings Thomas is averaging 7.33 APG. Which is right there with many PGS people consider to be great distributors. Just because he is better at scoring than most of those other players doesn’t mean he is going to lose his team games.

[lakeshow22Participant]

What makes him a me player? He takes 14.6 shots per game. If he’s a me first player than so r guys like Irving. Lillard, Westbrook and every other shoot first point guard

[lakeshow22Participant]

What makes him a me player? He takes 14.6 shots per game. If he’s a me first player than so r guys like Irving. Lillard, Westbrook and every other shoot first point guard

[contestwinnerParticipant]

When is the last time a team won a championship with a me-first type of point guard. I would rather my point guard get 14 points 10 assists than 20 points and 6 assists. The assists are going to be able to translate to winning against good defensive teams. I’m not saying he is a bad point guard, but I would rather have a Ricky Rubio for the sake of winning games (also, Rubio is pretty fun to watch).

[BasketBalAllanParticipant]

Would you care to elaborate on why his style of play doesn’t lead to winning games?

[contestwinnerParticipant]

Yes he is a very good point guard with elite skills, but….. He is on a bad team so his stats are inflated a bit and his style of play doesn’t really translate to winning basketball.

I can name 15 point guards I would take over him, so I wouldn’t consider him elite….Just look at a list of starting point guards in the NBA and I bet you wouldn’t put him in the top 10 (the elite).

[JD’s_TimberpuppiesParticipant]

I don’t quite think he is elite but he is on his way.  I’ve been waiting for him to finally get unleashed and quite happy the time has come (on my fantasy squad).  Really though the guys is so good on offense very athletic and can shoot it but also an underrated ability to create.  While I never expect him to be an elite defender due to his size I think he can improve some on his technique and could hustle a little more.  If he were able to beat the guy he is guarding to the spot more he could take his share of charges.  He is so little any contact will make him fall and thus get a bunch of charges.  If he can get coached up on defense and show the willingness to improve I do feel he could then be an elite PG.

[JD’s_TimberpuppiesParticipant]

I don’t quite think he is elite but he is on his way.  I’ve been waiting for him to finally get unleashed and quite happy the time has come (on my fantasy squad).  Really though the guys is so good on offense very athletic and can shoot it but also an underrated ability to create.  While I never expect him to be an elite defender due to his size I think he can improve some on his technique and could hustle a little more.  If he were able to beat the guy he is guarding to the spot more he could take his share of charges.  He is so little any contact will make him fall and thus get a bunch of charges.  If he can get coached up on defense and show the willingness to improve I do feel he could then be an elite PG.

[hbomb3300Participant]

I agree that he is under rated but ELITE is going too far.  Point guard is the deepest position in the NBA by a large margin so he probably isn’t even in the top 15.  I respect his game and confidence though.

[GrandmamaParticipant]

 Exactly.  Elite is like top 3-4 PG, which he is far from.

[GrandmamaParticipant]

 Exactly.  Elite is like top 3-4 PG, which he is far from.

[hbomb3300Participant]

I agree that he is under rated but ELITE is going too far.  Point guard is the deepest position in the NBA by a large margin so he probably isn’t even in the top 15.  I respect his game and confidence though.

[TheLastWordParticipant]

 I think  its refreshing a 5’9" guy is kicking ass in the league. This guy was bet against so heavily due to his size, much more than even Burke. He has the highest  +/- on the team, so is doing alot of things right, which includes defense. 

[TheLastWordParticipant]

 I think  its refreshing a 5’9" guy is kicking ass in the league. This guy was bet against so heavily due to his size, much more than even Burke. He has the highest  +/- on the team, so is doing alot of things right, which includes defense. 

[Sewok15Participant]

He is certainly balling out but Elite is pushing it in my opinion. If you look at only the advanced stats he probably is a top 3 point guard this year. However the eye test mixed with his teams record will tell you differently. He is on the cusp of being top 10 for sure (especially with all the injuries). Looking through his stats I just realized he has the same birthday as me 2/7…

Here are a list of point guards that are better than him in my opinion. Chris Paul, Steph Curry, John Wall,  Damian Lillard, Kyrie Irving, Westbrook, Rondo, Rose, Eric Bledsoe, and Tony Parker.

I think he is in the same league with guys like Mike Conley, Jrue Holiday, Kemba Walker, Jeff Teague, Ty Lawson and Kyle Lowry. The PG position is really as deep as it has ever been in the NBA. So that is 10 guys I think are surely better than him and 6 that are right around the same area. He is playing like a top 10 guy right now but I just can’t give it to him yet. He needs to do it for a whole season and then some.

It would be like calling Nick Foles an Elite QB after the season he had for the Eagles. If he comes back and consistently puts up incredible numbers while leading his team to the playoffs then you have to give him the Elite status but until then….

[Sewok15Participant]

He is certainly balling out but Elite is pushing it in my opinion. If you look at only the advanced stats he probably is a top 3 point guard this year. However the eye test mixed with his teams record will tell you differently. He is on the cusp of being top 10 for sure (especially with all the injuries). Looking through his stats I just realized he has the same birthday as me 2/7…

Here are a list of point guards that are better than him in my opinion. Chris Paul, Steph Curry, John Wall,  Damian Lillard, Kyrie Irving, Westbrook, Rondo, Rose, Eric Bledsoe, and Tony Parker.

I think he is in the same league with guys like Mike Conley, Jrue Holiday, Kemba Walker, Jeff Teague, Ty Lawson and Kyle Lowry. The PG position is really as deep as it has ever been in the NBA. So that is 10 guys I think are surely better than him and 6 that are right around the same area. He is playing like a top 10 guy right now but I just can’t give it to him yet. He needs to do it for a whole season and then some.

It would be like calling Nick Foles an Elite QB after the season he had for the Eagles. If he comes back and consistently puts up incredible numbers while leading his team to the playoffs then you have to give him the Elite status but until then….

[lakeshow22Participant]

 He needs to do it for a whole season and than some, but Bledsoe needs only 30 games? Bledsoe isn’t better than Holiday or Lawson IMO. After CP3, curry, Irving, wall, Lillard, Parker, Westbrook, and rose, Thomas can hold his own with anybody else.

 

u can’t say that thomas hasn’t gotten his team anywhere when neither has wall or Irving.

[lakeshow22Participant]

 He needs to do it for a whole season and than some, but Bledsoe needs only 30 games? Bledsoe isn’t better than Holiday or Lawson IMO. After CP3, curry, Irving, wall, Lillard, Parker, Westbrook, and rose, Thomas can hold his own with anybody else.

 

u can’t say that thomas hasn’t gotten his team anywhere when neither has wall or Irving.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Remember when the Lakers had two late picks in the 2011 draft and preferred to use those two picks for players with odd names just to get a kick out of how badly Adam Silver would pronounce them?  Then they dealt with PG issues/injuries for the next 3 seasons.

Ater Majok is averaging 6 PPG and 4 RPG in South Korea.

Chukwudiebere Maduabum is averaging 4 PPG and 4 RPG in Estonia.

Isaiah Thomas is averaging 20-6 at the age of 24 in the NBA.

I bet they feel pretty stupid now…

 

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Remember when the Lakers had two late picks in the 2011 draft and preferred to use those two picks for players with odd names just to get a kick out of how badly Adam Silver would pronounce them?  Then they dealt with PG issues/injuries for the next 3 seasons.

Ater Majok is averaging 6 PPG and 4 RPG in South Korea.

Chukwudiebere Maduabum is averaging 4 PPG and 4 RPG in Estonia.

Isaiah Thomas is averaging 20-6 at the age of 24 in the NBA.

I bet they feel pretty stupid now…

 

[Author]

Posts