Is the league really getting smaller

This topic contains 28 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by sitlbito 10 years, 8 months ago.

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Posted on: Tue, 10/13/2015 - 9:43pm #61619

ChicagoCasey
Participant
I really find it interesting that lots of NBA experts and fans throw out that the league is getting smaller and faster. I have to only agree to half because the NBA is not getting smaller. People assume that the league is getting smaller and the NBA is now a point guards league amd you need an elite point guard to win a championship in today’s NBA. People look at the Warriors for example on why the league is a "Point Guard’s league" and the NBA is going smaller because Steph Curry and Draymond Green won a championship this past season.
Look at this past offseason for example to debunk the "The NBA is getting smaller". The Spurs just sign another player that’s 6’11", the starting PF/C combo is Tim Duncan and LaMarcus Aldrich, that’s not getting smaller. In the draft 4 out of the last 6 players in the draft were 7′ footers (Towns, Okafor, Porzingis, and Cauly-Stein). And look at the top teams in the league if you want to knock down the "leagues getting smaller" thing. The Cavs front line is Movgov, Love, Thompson, and Andy V. All the players are over 6’10". Bulls. Noah, Gasol, Nikola, Gibson, and Portis are all over 6’10". Memphis is the same and so is the Thunder, Pelicans, Rockets, Wizards. Raptors, Clippers, Utah, Miami, and a couple more teams. Nobody is really looking for the next "Draymond Green", the NBA GM’s trying to get the next "Shaq" and the next "Hakeem Olajuwon".
And on the side note, you do not need an "elite’ point guard to win the championship. The NBA did not change overnight. Look at all the point guards besides Steph Curry, Tony Parker, and Rajon Rondo in the past decade and tell me where’s the elite point guards that won championships. You have players like Mario Chalmers and Derek Fisher are the point guards that have championship rings. Players like Chris Paul and John Stockton don’t have any rings.

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Posted on: Tue, 10/13/2015 - 9:58pm #1018151

Espresso
Participant
You’re seeing relatively smaller players be effective is the PF positions… due to providing the much needed value of stretching the floor and normally being quick to defend the much used pick and roll. There are also plenty of succesful smaller combos who are considered specially valuable in todays game where it seems like most SGs lack a post game to expose their weakness.
In general I agree with you tho, I dont think there use to be many teams featuring 3 players standing at 6’11ft back in the days. The league is getting bigger and faster… and the fact that is geting faster, is also allowing some smaller players to succeed.
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Posted on: Tue, 10/13/2015 - 9:58pm #1018013

Espresso
Participant
You’re seeing relatively smaller players be effective is the PF positions… due to providing the much needed value of stretching the floor and normally being quick to defend the much used pick and roll. There are also plenty of succesful smaller combos who are considered specially valuable in todays game where it seems like most SGs lack a post game to expose their weakness.
In general I agree with you tho, I dont think there use to be many teams featuring 3 players standing at 6’11ft back in the days. The league is getting bigger and faster… and the fact that is geting faster, is also allowing some smaller players to succeed.
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Posted on: Tue, 10/13/2015 - 10:54pm #1018157

NBAjunkie81
Participant
not a star but a Transcendant Mega Star & traditionally there are Very few of those players – it’s really the Only thing that matters b/c once you get your hands on the Rarest of players, an NBA GM can build a team around "That Guy" – but w/o that Super Star, no team can win in the NBA…
These Mega Stars are almost Always taken very high in the Draft – in the Lottery…. Sometimes that "Star" is a Center (Wilt, Russell, Moses, Walton, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq), but there have been Forwards (Dr. J, Bird, Duncan, Cowens, Reed, Lebron) & Guards as well (Magic, Kobe, Jordan, Isaiah, Curry)…
The way the game is actually played will always evolve & really, we fans get WAY too caught up in the traditional 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 psotions b/c rarely play in that uniform style anymore but One thing that has Never changed & will Never change is that if your team gets their hands on the NEXT Super Star (Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis) at some point whoever That guy plays for will most likely win a Ring…
All these "other" story lines that the NBA’s media partners peddle is simply a sales pitch & what they are selling is "The Future"…. Anything to distract the 25 teams who have Zero chance of winning a Ring this year from that fact… So I don;t get too caught up in these "is small ball the new NBA" trends… I don’t dislike it, I Luv what the media does to create interest in young & up & coming teams & what playing styles or positions are trending… But Golden State won b/c they put several excellent young players around One irrefutable Super Star & that was Steph Curry… not b/c they started a "small ball" trend…

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Posted on: Tue, 10/13/2015 - 10:54pm #1018019

NBAjunkie81
Participant
not a star but a Transcendant Mega Star & traditionally there are Very few of those players – it’s really the Only thing that matters b/c once you get your hands on the Rarest of players, an NBA GM can build a team around "That Guy" – but w/o that Super Star, no team can win in the NBA…
These Mega Stars are almost Always taken very high in the Draft – in the Lottery…. Sometimes that "Star" is a Center (Wilt, Russell, Moses, Walton, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq), but there have been Forwards (Dr. J, Bird, Duncan, Cowens, Reed, Lebron) & Guards as well (Magic, Kobe, Jordan, Isaiah, Curry)…
The way the game is actually played will always evolve & really, we fans get WAY too caught up in the traditional 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 psotions b/c rarely play in that uniform style anymore but One thing that has Never changed & will Never change is that if your team gets their hands on the NEXT Super Star (Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis) at some point whoever That guy plays for will most likely win a Ring…
All these "other" story lines that the NBA’s media partners peddle is simply a sales pitch & what they are selling is "The Future"…. Anything to distract the 25 teams who have Zero chance of winning a Ring this year from that fact… So I don;t get too caught up in these "is small ball the new NBA" trends… I don’t dislike it, I Luv what the media does to create interest in young & up & coming teams & what playing styles or positions are trending… But Golden State won b/c they put several excellent young players around One irrefutable Super Star & that was Steph Curry… not b/c they started a "small ball" trend…

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- Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 12:17pm #1018164
  
  Choppy
  Participant
  2004 Detroit Pistons would like to respectfully disagree.
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  - Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 1:57pm #1018172
    
    Magic Jordan
    Participant
    Obvious outlier. Do you have any more examples?
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  - Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 1:57pm #1018312
    
    Magic Jordan
    Participant
    Obvious outlier. Do you have any more examples?
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- Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 12:17pm #1018304
  
  Choppy
  Participant
  2004 Detroit Pistons would like to respectfully disagree.
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Posted on: Tue, 10/13/2015 - 11:26pm #1018159

he_gets_buckets
Participant
I would say it’s not simply that the league is getting smaller- it is more so that the league is becoming much more ball movement focused, and moving away from needing two traditional bigs on the court at all times. There is much more of a focus on everyone being able to stretch the floor to space out there ball movement centric offenses, and thus the traditional 4 man is slowly going to the way side. There will still be outliers always as theres always different offenses around the league. In Sacramento you’ll presumably have Willie Cauley Stein starting next to Cousins for the forseeable future, and Memphis has their pound and ground style enabled by having Z-bo and Gasol. But if you look at the broader scheme of the league, much more teams are looking at going with a small ball lineup with one traditional big and 4 guys who can play on the perimeter to some degree.

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Posted on: Tue, 10/13/2015 - 11:26pm #1018021

he_gets_buckets
Participant
I would say it’s not simply that the league is getting smaller- it is more so that the league is becoming much more ball movement focused, and moving away from needing two traditional bigs on the court at all times. There is much more of a focus on everyone being able to stretch the floor to space out there ball movement centric offenses, and thus the traditional 4 man is slowly going to the way side. There will still be outliers always as theres always different offenses around the league. In Sacramento you’ll presumably have Willie Cauley Stein starting next to Cousins for the forseeable future, and Memphis has their pound and ground style enabled by having Z-bo and Gasol. But if you look at the broader scheme of the league, much more teams are looking at going with a small ball lineup with one traditional big and 4 guys who can play on the perimeter to some degree.

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Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 4:25am #1018199

Andrew1984
Participant
I think we can say that the emphasized skill sets are changing more than the players’ actual statures are changing.
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Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 4:25am #1018061

Andrew1984
Participant
I think we can say that the emphasized skill sets are changing more than the players’ actual statures are changing.
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Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 7:34am #1018235

Memphis Madness
Participant
There are more solid centers out there than ever in my opinion. Most teams have one, and some have two solid centers.
The forward spots might be getting smaller since that is where you get your stretch four’s or your 3 guard lineups.
Overall rosters aren’t getting smaller, but you do get some small ball lineups out there, where even your smaller lineups has a 6’10 guy at the 5 and a 6’8 or taller guy at the 4.
You might also have more combo guards out there since there are never too many 6’6/6’7 all-star caliber shooting guards out there.

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Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 7:34am #1018096

Memphis Madness
Participant
There are more solid centers out there than ever in my opinion. Most teams have one, and some have two solid centers.
The forward spots might be getting smaller since that is where you get your stretch four’s or your 3 guard lineups.
Overall rosters aren’t getting smaller, but you do get some small ball lineups out there, where even your smaller lineups has a 6’10 guy at the 5 and a 6’8 or taller guy at the 4.
You might also have more combo guards out there since there are never too many 6’6/6’7 all-star caliber shooting guards out there.

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Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 2:03pm #1018178

Magic Jordan
Participant
The league is not getting smaller technically. I’m sure the average height of players is similar if not greater than it has been.
The league is getting smaller in the sense that players are playing smaller. PFs are playing away from the basket, putting the ball on the floor and are expected to shoot the rock. Because of this a player like Draymond Green can have great success.
The positions are changing but I have to imagine from a height standpoint players are the same. Evolution would tell us they would actually be slightly taller, though I have done no research to back that claim.

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Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 2:03pm #1018318

Magic Jordan
Participant
The league is not getting smaller technically. I’m sure the average height of players is similar if not greater than it has been.
The league is getting smaller in the sense that players are playing smaller. PFs are playing away from the basket, putting the ball on the floor and are expected to shoot the rock. Because of this a player like Draymond Green can have great success.
The positions are changing but I have to imagine from a height standpoint players are the same. Evolution would tell us they would actually be slightly taller, though I have done no research to back that claim.

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Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 2:19pm #1018182

PulseGlazer
Participant
The league isn’t necessarily smaller, but shooting and spacing are more emphasized. If/when that continues to be the case, look for more big men who can shoot it to be developed.
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Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 2:19pm #1018322

PulseGlazer
Participant
The league isn’t necessarily smaller, but shooting and spacing are more emphasized. If/when that continues to be the case, look for more big men who can shoot it to be developed.
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Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 2:34pm #1018198

VRod305
Participant
I don’t think the league is getting smaller, or at least it shouldn’t be. Keep in mind, 11 of the last 15 titles have been won by Duncan or Shaq. Those are the guys teams should be looking for. Look at what Hinkie’s doing by building with bigs. You can always find 2’s 3’s and 4’s.
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Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 2:34pm #1018338

VRod305
Participant
I don’t think the league is getting smaller, or at least it shouldn’t be. Keep in mind, 11 of the last 15 titles have been won by Duncan or Shaq. Those are the guys teams should be looking for. Look at what Hinkie’s doing by building with bigs. You can always find 2’s 3’s and 4’s.
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Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 4:01pm #1018212

Illadelph
Participant
I think that "small ball" is a joke at the NBA level. How many 6’9" centers are there? Teams still want their 7 footers. What I do see is way more athleticism in big guys. Big guys either are very athletic a la WCS, or are skilled and can really shoot it and space the floor a la Porzingis or KAT.
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Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 4:01pm #1018352

Illadelph
Participant
I think that "small ball" is a joke at the NBA level. How many 6’9" centers are there? Teams still want their 7 footers. What I do see is way more athleticism in big guys. Big guys either are very athletic a la WCS, or are skilled and can really shoot it and space the floor a la Porzingis or KAT.
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Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 6:10pm #1018368

Rip256
If anything, the league is getting taller due to the 2.5inches players are adding to their listed ‘in shoes’ height?
My pair of 80’s Chuck Taylors added .75 of an inch…at best.
And only 0.25 inches after 3 months on the blacktop.
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Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 6:10pm #1018228

Rip256
If anything, the league is getting taller due to the 2.5inches players are adding to their listed ‘in shoes’ height?
My pair of 80’s Chuck Taylors added .75 of an inch…at best.
And only 0.25 inches after 3 months on the blacktop.
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Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 7:47pm #1018376

King Calucha
Participant
Small ball isn’t necessarily about the size of the players. Someone already mentioned it. It’s about making the 4 space the floor by having a consistente perimeter game. The Bucks could have a lineup where the smaller player is 6’7” (MCW) and they could still be playing small ball (with Jabari at the 4). So small ball is different from a small lineup.
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Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 7:47pm #1018236

King Calucha
Participant
Small ball isn’t necessarily about the size of the players. Someone already mentioned it. It’s about making the 4 space the floor by having a consistente perimeter game. The Bucks could have a lineup where the smaller player is 6’7” (MCW) and they could still be playing small ball (with Jabari at the 4). So small ball is different from a small lineup.
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Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 11:50pm #1018391

sitlbito
Participant
I prefer positionless basketball. Because,I haven’t checked this,but it looks like point guards and shooting guards are actually getting taller. Look at that Warriors lineup:Livingston-Thompson-Iguodala-Barnes-Green. They’re all between 6-6 and 6-8(maybe Thompson is 6-5).
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Posted on: Wed, 10/14/2015 - 11:50pm #1018252

sitlbito
Participant
I prefer positionless basketball. Because,I haven’t checked this,but it looks like point guards and shooting guards are actually getting taller. Look at that Warriors lineup:Livingston-Thompson-Iguodala-Barnes-Green. They’re all between 6-6 and 6-8(maybe Thompson is 6-5).
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