[littleteapotParticipant]

SBnation just ranked Bosh AHEAD of Carmelo Anthony in their free agent rankings ().

Does this make any sense to anyone? You’re talking about one of the best stretch bigs in the league, but this is a guy who is still a poor rebounder, a guy who can block 1 shot per game and is OK at containing the strong side but doesn’t do much else on D, and hasn’t had to play with the ball in his hands for 4 years.

Yes I know if he gets split up from Lebron, he is going to get a significant amount of plays run for him and the offensive numbers will go up, but honestly do we even know if that’s a good thing anymore? I really don’t think he’s a Dirk/Love/Aldridge type guy where you can throw it to him in the mid post and he can at least get a shot off. He needs to be moving around in multi-screen plays and I think that adds up to a lot of low percentage shots and even fewer offensive rebounds if he’s on a team where he needs to be a first or second option.

Contrast this to Carmelo, who’s been option 1, 2 and 3 for years and is still shooting 40% from 3 at a high volume AND is actually getting more rebounds than Bosh. Who in their right mind is taking Bosh over Melo.

[littleteapotParticipant]

Forgot the link: http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/6/19/5815124/nba-free-agents-2014-rankings

[littleteapotParticipant]

Forgot the link: http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/6/19/5815124/nba-free-agents-2014-rankings

[clutch in spaceParticipant]

As a rockets fan, I would rather take Bosh than Carmelo. Bosh is still going to give them a major upgrade without compromising team play as much. He would help the team more by replacing T Jones than Carmelo replacing Parsons. Plus, it seems like my heart would skip a beat every time Jones and Montiejunas jack up a three. 

[clutch in spaceParticipant]

As a rockets fan, I would rather take Bosh than Carmelo. Bosh is still going to give them a major upgrade without compromising team play as much. He would help the team more by replacing T Jones than Carmelo replacing Parsons. Plus, it seems like my heart would skip a beat every time Jones and Montiejunas jack up a three. 

[Prime TimeParticipant]

Ever since Bosh went to Miami, he’s been criminally underrated. He was a 20/10 player in Toronto. Most people claim that Lamarcus Aldridge(I’m a huge LA fan) is a top 2-3 PF in the league. If you look at career stats, Bosh is better in pretty much every statistical category. If you look at Bosh’s best season and LA’s best season, Bosh’s was better.

Bosh was a talented scorer close to the basket in his early years. Now, he’s one of the best stretch PF’s out there. He’s able to fit into whatever role you need him to, and he’s been a huge part of Miami’s success. 

There are a lot of teams that would be better off going after Chris Bosh than Melo.

[Prime TimeParticipant]

Ever since Bosh went to Miami, he’s been criminally underrated. He was a 20/10 player in Toronto. Most people claim that Lamarcus Aldridge(I’m a huge LA fan) is a top 2-3 PF in the league. If you look at career stats, Bosh is better in pretty much every statistical category. If you look at Bosh’s best season and LA’s best season, Bosh’s was better.

Bosh was a talented scorer close to the basket in his early years. Now, he’s one of the best stretch PF’s out there. He’s able to fit into whatever role you need him to, and he’s been a huge part of Miami’s success. 

There are a lot of teams that would be better off going after Chris Bosh than Melo.

[Jester87Participant]

Carmelo is a better player, but Bosh is a a better fit for most team. Bosh would be perfect in Houston next to Howard. He would be perfect in Chicago next to Noah. The thing is, Bosh is a two way player and he’s very versatile both on defense and on offense. The poor rebounding rate has a lot to with the fact that he plays a lot far from the rim both on offense and on defense (and he often has to guard bigger centers). Miami rebounded better with Bosh on the floor than they did when he sat and Bosh grabbed a good number of rebounds available and did well on contested rebound per sport vu data available on Nba.com.

Carmelo is a better scorer, only KD can compare as a scorer, but he’s a very weak defensive player and even on offense it’s not easy to integrate him if you already have a few good scorers who need the ball in their hand a lot (i.e. James Harden). I don’t how I would rank them, because I suck ranking things, but I understand a few coaches would like to have Bosh more than Melo.

[Jester87Participant]

Carmelo is a better player, but Bosh is a a better fit for most team. Bosh would be perfect in Houston next to Howard. He would be perfect in Chicago next to Noah. The thing is, Bosh is a two way player and he’s very versatile both on defense and on offense. The poor rebounding rate has a lot to with the fact that he plays a lot far from the rim both on offense and on defense (and he often has to guard bigger centers). Miami rebounded better with Bosh on the floor than they did when he sat and Bosh grabbed a good number of rebounds available and did well on contested rebound per sport vu data available on Nba.com.

Carmelo is a better scorer, only KD can compare as a scorer, but he’s a very weak defensive player and even on offense it’s not easy to integrate him if you already have a few good scorers who need the ball in their hand a lot (i.e. James Harden). I don’t how I would rank them, because I suck ranking things, but I understand a few coaches would like to have Bosh more than Melo.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Though, this could absolutely be based off of one being able to get Bosh for 18 mill rather than Melo for 23. Will agree that Bosh’s work on the boards has been underwhelming as of late, though I hardly believe Melo is actually a better rebounder. This was the first year Melo actually averaged more rebounds per 36 than Bosh (by 0.1) and Bosh still had a better rebounding percentage. Plus, Bosh shot 40.5% from 3 in the play-offs, the guy is a knockdown shooter.

If you are going with who plays the bigger individual role or is the better all-around scorer, of course it is Melo. But, if Melo is looking to take the full Max and Bosh has wiggle room, would that may be not make Bosh slightly more appealing. People feel that the Max is only for golden gods of basketball, though lets put it this way. If their were an open market on contracts without a Maximum, there would be plenty of guys who would be pulling in this money. That is the way the league works, teams are built around these players and when you are still young enough, you try to make as much as possible. We see Dirk Nowitzki and Tim Duncan taking less, though would they be doing that 7 years ago? Don’t think so.

Now, I will say, the Max certainly limits your options. The salary cap is 58 million and the Max deal Melo would sign is for about 23, so right there you have one player making nearly 40% of your allotted value before you start finding it difficult to add to your roster. Bosh, if he went for 18 million, would be taking up approximately 31%, so that 9% could be a pretty big deal. To me, this wiggle room is probably what separates them on the rankings.

The thing I have had the most difficulty with when it comes to "rumors" of Carmelo replacing Bosh in Miami or LeBron wanting to team up with him is losing what Chris Bosh gives you. The guy is a knockdown spot-up shooter, with size to at least compete defensively and mobility. Carmelo is incredibly versatile, he showed life on the boards and even if he is not as terrible defensively as he gets labelled, he is not Chris Bosh there. You are not comfortable with Carmelo guarding PF’s consistently, most definitely not guarding centers. Ultimately, Bosh should not be your center either, though he can at least give you more relief in a pinch, as he has been doing the past few seasons.

With these rankings, it seems their is definite wiggle room into how much a player will cost, age and even off-court factors as opposed to a straight up ranking of just how good they are. Still, if he is the focus of an offense, the guy has proven he can be pretty dangerous. He out-Aldridged LaMarcus Aldridge when he was with Toronto, that is for sure. I think LA may be one of the most consistent PF’s in the league and a total burden, but did you see that game Bosh had against him earlier in the year? Dude went for 37 and 10 to Aldridge’s 22 and 7, plus hit the game winning 3. In Portland, without LeBron. To me, Chris Bosh on another team would be in the discussion with those players for sure. Instead, he has been the best 3rd option in the NBA by about a mile for the past four seasons. 

Want to give some perspective to all of the people who rip on Bosh. He is an easy target, he is in no way perfect, but he is worth a lot of money on the open market and is still only 30-years old. If you could get Chris Bosh at 18 and still have another 5 million dollars, or just get Melo for 23 million, which one would you choose? Would you not than possibly factor that into where they rank as Free Agents? As far as the rebounding goes, part of that is on Bosh, though I think part of that may be his role. When you have two guys who attack the basket at the rate of Wade and LeBron, do you want to clog the lane? Plus, you can only get offensive rebounds off of missed shots, and the Heat have not had as many of those as other teams, especially not with their three best players shooting well over 50%. People love to rip on Chris Bosh and if he signs for as much as Melo does, than he may be overrated on this list. Still, I think any question surrounding both of their values as Free Agents needs to include the money attached to both players, which to me works in Chris Bosh’s favor if he is willing to take less.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Though, this could absolutely be based off of one being able to get Bosh for 18 mill rather than Melo for 23. Will agree that Bosh’s work on the boards has been underwhelming as of late, though I hardly believe Melo is actually a better rebounder. This was the first year Melo actually averaged more rebounds per 36 than Bosh (by 0.1) and Bosh still had a better rebounding percentage. Plus, Bosh shot 40.5% from 3 in the play-offs, the guy is a knockdown shooter.

If you are going with who plays the bigger individual role or is the better all-around scorer, of course it is Melo. But, if Melo is looking to take the full Max and Bosh has wiggle room, would that may be not make Bosh slightly more appealing. People feel that the Max is only for golden gods of basketball, though lets put it this way. If their were an open market on contracts without a Maximum, there would be plenty of guys who would be pulling in this money. That is the way the league works, teams are built around these players and when you are still young enough, you try to make as much as possible. We see Dirk Nowitzki and Tim Duncan taking less, though would they be doing that 7 years ago? Don’t think so.

Now, I will say, the Max certainly limits your options. The salary cap is 58 million and the Max deal Melo would sign is for about 23, so right there you have one player making nearly 40% of your allotted value before you start finding it difficult to add to your roster. Bosh, if he went for 18 million, would be taking up approximately 31%, so that 9% could be a pretty big deal. To me, this wiggle room is probably what separates them on the rankings.

The thing I have had the most difficulty with when it comes to "rumors" of Carmelo replacing Bosh in Miami or LeBron wanting to team up with him is losing what Chris Bosh gives you. The guy is a knockdown spot-up shooter, with size to at least compete defensively and mobility. Carmelo is incredibly versatile, he showed life on the boards and even if he is not as terrible defensively as he gets labelled, he is not Chris Bosh there. You are not comfortable with Carmelo guarding PF’s consistently, most definitely not guarding centers. Ultimately, Bosh should not be your center either, though he can at least give you more relief in a pinch, as he has been doing the past few seasons.

With these rankings, it seems their is definite wiggle room into how much a player will cost, age and even off-court factors as opposed to a straight up ranking of just how good they are. Still, if he is the focus of an offense, the guy has proven he can be pretty dangerous. He out-Aldridged LaMarcus Aldridge when he was with Toronto, that is for sure. I think LA may be one of the most consistent PF’s in the league and a total burden, but did you see that game Bosh had against him earlier in the year? Dude went for 37 and 10 to Aldridge’s 22 and 7, plus hit the game winning 3. In Portland, without LeBron. To me, Chris Bosh on another team would be in the discussion with those players for sure. Instead, he has been the best 3rd option in the NBA by about a mile for the past four seasons. 

Want to give some perspective to all of the people who rip on Bosh. He is an easy target, he is in no way perfect, but he is worth a lot of money on the open market and is still only 30-years old. If you could get Chris Bosh at 18 and still have another 5 million dollars, or just get Melo for 23 million, which one would you choose? Would you not than possibly factor that into where they rank as Free Agents? As far as the rebounding goes, part of that is on Bosh, though I think part of that may be his role. When you have two guys who attack the basket at the rate of Wade and LeBron, do you want to clog the lane? Plus, you can only get offensive rebounds off of missed shots, and the Heat have not had as many of those as other teams, especially not with their three best players shooting well over 50%. People love to rip on Chris Bosh and if he signs for as much as Melo does, than he may be overrated on this list. Still, I think any question surrounding both of their values as Free Agents needs to include the money attached to both players, which to me works in Chris Bosh’s favor if he is willing to take less.

[littleteapotParticipant]

First of all Aldridge is a better defender in almost every area and is a better rebounder.

Second of all, the fact that Bosh used to be a very good go to player 5 years ago is basically irrelevant now. He’s a completely different player than he was in Toronto and there’s no guarantee he can go back (how easy was it for Pau Gasol).

I also think the idea that he’s a great fit in all these teams than Melo is also not true. The Bulls and Rockets would both do great putting him at power forward and playing small ball.

I agree that Bosh has been underrated for most of his time in Miami, but he’s not in the same class as Carmelo. I would absolutely rather pay 23 mil for Melo than 18 mil for Bosh.

[Jester87Participant]

Aldridge is by no means a good defender, terribly vulnerable against the pick and roll (=nba teams bread and butter on offense), not a rim protector and not comfortable against combo forwards/stretch 4. Bosh is one of the best pick and roll defenders in the league, can hedge screens very well, can move his feet against guards. He struggles a little against big low post scorers, but there aren’t many in the Nba nowadays.

[littleteapotParticipant]

Teams are looking for guys who can help off the weakside. IMO, Bosh gets 1 block per game off the weakside, and otherwise has no impact. I’ll admit I haven’t seen as much of Aldridge, but from what I’ve seen he can get you a block a game, and use verticality and has more of the attention to detail to pick up the open guy or show and recover than Bosh. We saw this year, that Lebron lost a bit of burst and couldn’t contain everything coming his way, and no teams really were afraid of Bosh coming off the weakside.

And if you’re looking to contain the pick and roll on the strongside, Bosh is definitely not among the best in the league. Guys who are better, off the top of my head:

-Deandre Jordan

-Joakim Noah

-Al Horford

-Anthony Davis

-Dwight Howard

-Serge Ibaka

-Lebron

-Taj Gibson

[Jester87Participant]

I don’t like to talk about blocks because I think they’re a very bad indicator of defensive ability (many shot blockers are horrible defenders), but if we have to, Bosh is slightly better than Aldridge in pretty much any blocks related stat: Bosh had 1.0 BPG last year (1.1 for his career); 1.1 per 36 minutes (1.1); 1.7 per 100 possessions (1.2); a 2.7% Blk% (2.4%). Aldridge: 1.0 bpg (1.0); 1.0 per 36 min (1.0); 1.4 per 100 possessions (1.5); 1.9 blk% (2.2%). They’re very similar when it comes to blocks and if any Bosh has a small edge. It has to be considered that Aldridge play often closer to the rim, because Portland plays a more conservative defense and big men drops against the pick and roll, while Miami plays more flash and recover and occasionally blitz though not as much as they used to.

There’s not a single aspect of defense Aldridge is good at. He’s average at a few of them, but overly he’s not a good defensive player.

As for best pick and roll defenders, DeAndre Jordan is a mess, he’s improved a lot, but he’s still a low IQ players, sometimes he’s in the wrong position, when he has to drop he stay too far and allows ball handlers to turn the corner and sometimes he’s overly aggressive when he has to edge. Joakim Noah is outstanding. Horford is a good defender, but as far as I remember he’s never played for a coach asking him to jump out against the pick and roll so I have no idea how versatile he is. Davis has all the potential in the worl because he’s so gifted, but he’s still learning and he makes a lot of mistakes. Dwight Howard is lazy as anyone else in the league, he’s good when he has to drop, but he’s vulnerable against pick and pop bigs (Houston got killed by LaMarcus Aldridge pick and pop in the playoffs) and he doesn’t like to jump out or to switch on guards. He has the athletic tools to do that, but he’s just too lazy, doesn’t stay in a stance and usually doesn’t contain ball handlers for more than a dribble. Ibaka is elite. LeBron is a freak and can do whatever he wants on defense when he’s focused, but he’s not a big and rarely guards screeners so doesn’t belong in this conversation. Gibson is good.

[Jester87Participant]

I don’t like to talk about blocks because I think they’re a very bad indicator of defensive ability (many shot blockers are horrible defenders), but if we have to, Bosh is slightly better than Aldridge in pretty much any blocks related stat: Bosh had 1.0 BPG last year (1.1 for his career); 1.1 per 36 minutes (1.1); 1.7 per 100 possessions (1.2); a 2.7% Blk% (2.4%). Aldridge: 1.0 bpg (1.0); 1.0 per 36 min (1.0); 1.4 per 100 possessions (1.5); 1.9 blk% (2.2%). They’re very similar when it comes to blocks and if any Bosh has a small edge. It has to be considered that Aldridge play often closer to the rim, because Portland plays a more conservative defense and big men drops against the pick and roll, while Miami plays more flash and recover and occasionally blitz though not as much as they used to.

There’s not a single aspect of defense Aldridge is good at. He’s average at a few of them, but overly he’s not a good defensive player.

As for best pick and roll defenders, DeAndre Jordan is a mess, he’s improved a lot, but he’s still a low IQ players, sometimes he’s in the wrong position, when he has to drop he stay too far and allows ball handlers to turn the corner and sometimes he’s overly aggressive when he has to edge. Joakim Noah is outstanding. Horford is a good defender, but as far as I remember he’s never played for a coach asking him to jump out against the pick and roll so I have no idea how versatile he is. Davis has all the potential in the worl because he’s so gifted, but he’s still learning and he makes a lot of mistakes. Dwight Howard is lazy as anyone else in the league, he’s good when he has to drop, but he’s vulnerable against pick and pop bigs (Houston got killed by LaMarcus Aldridge pick and pop in the playoffs) and he doesn’t like to jump out or to switch on guards. He has the athletic tools to do that, but he’s just too lazy, doesn’t stay in a stance and usually doesn’t contain ball handlers for more than a dribble. Ibaka is elite. LeBron is a freak and can do whatever he wants on defense when he’s focused, but he’s not a big and rarely guards screeners so doesn’t belong in this conversation. Gibson is good.

[littleteapotParticipant]

Teams are looking for guys who can help off the weakside. IMO, Bosh gets 1 block per game off the weakside, and otherwise has no impact. I’ll admit I haven’t seen as much of Aldridge, but from what I’ve seen he can get you a block a game, and use verticality and has more of the attention to detail to pick up the open guy or show and recover than Bosh. We saw this year, that Lebron lost a bit of burst and couldn’t contain everything coming his way, and no teams really were afraid of Bosh coming off the weakside.

And if you’re looking to contain the pick and roll on the strongside, Bosh is definitely not among the best in the league. Guys who are better, off the top of my head:

-Deandre Jordan

-Joakim Noah

-Al Horford

-Anthony Davis

-Dwight Howard

-Serge Ibaka

-Lebron

-Taj Gibson

[Jester87Participant]

Aldridge is by no means a good defender, terribly vulnerable against the pick and roll (=nba teams bread and butter on offense), not a rim protector and not comfortable against combo forwards/stretch 4. Bosh is one of the best pick and roll defenders in the league, can hedge screens very well, can move his feet against guards. He struggles a little against big low post scorers, but there aren’t many in the Nba nowadays.

[littleteapotParticipant]

First of all Aldridge is a better defender in almost every area and is a better rebounder.

Second of all, the fact that Bosh used to be a very good go to player 5 years ago is basically irrelevant now. He’s a completely different player than he was in Toronto and there’s no guarantee he can go back (how easy was it for Pau Gasol).

I also think the idea that he’s a great fit in all these teams than Melo is also not true. The Bulls and Rockets would both do great putting him at power forward and playing small ball.

I agree that Bosh has been underrated for most of his time in Miami, but he’s not in the same class as Carmelo. I would absolutely rather pay 23 mil for Melo than 18 mil for Bosh.

[TarHeelRavenParticipant]

 I got tore up with a post saying anybody that gave Bosh a max deal was crazy.  I would assume that most people who were negging me thought bosh was worth max money.  If you want to pay big money for a jump-shooting big guy that is a poor rebounder and doesn’t block any shots,and it is very soft, more power to you then.

[joecheck88Participant]

 I agree, I  am not offering Bosh a max. I think Melo does a good job rebounding a defending the post. He’s smaller but stronger and tougher. I think Melo is getting underrated by most here. The guy gets you 28ppg. It just depends what you need. I see Bosh a better fit in Houston than Chicago. I see Melo as a better fit in Chicago than Houston. Chicago needs the scoring whereas Houston could use the shooting. Though I really don’t like either in Houston because they are already bad on defense. 

I may give Bosh $14m per but I’m giving Melo the max. He’s one of only a handful of guys you can give the ball to and say win me the game. Bosh is good but he can’t do that. Also Bosh is a decent stretch guy but overrated in my Opinion. He got extremely open looks off Lebron and was way to streaky for me. 

[joecheck88Participant]

 I agree, I  am not offering Bosh a max. I think Melo does a good job rebounding a defending the post. He’s smaller but stronger and tougher. I think Melo is getting underrated by most here. The guy gets you 28ppg. It just depends what you need. I see Bosh a better fit in Houston than Chicago. I see Melo as a better fit in Chicago than Houston. Chicago needs the scoring whereas Houston could use the shooting. Though I really don’t like either in Houston because they are already bad on defense. 

I may give Bosh $14m per but I’m giving Melo the max. He’s one of only a handful of guys you can give the ball to and say win me the game. Bosh is good but he can’t do that. Also Bosh is a decent stretch guy but overrated in my Opinion. He got extremely open looks off Lebron and was way to streaky for me. 

[TarHeelRavenParticipant]

 I got tore up with a post saying anybody that gave Bosh a max deal was crazy.  I would assume that most people who were negging me thought bosh was worth max money.  If you want to pay big money for a jump-shooting big guy that is a poor rebounder and doesn’t block any shots,and it is very soft, more power to you then.

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