This topic contains 128 replies, has 19 voices, and was last updated by Avatar daggers818 4 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #62178
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    lalaila
    Participant

     Just watching those golden interviews from 90s’ and at that time Wilt said 50 – 60 – even 70 ppg would be his average letting us know 90’s basketball and rules looked easier for him

    Bill at the same time 

    said he havent seen a team who could compete with them and he would still win those all rings

    How do you think what type of stats and success would come to them if they would be young and playing today?

     

     

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  • #1031480
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    losnopesos
    Participant

    Hack a Wilt would keep him out of the game in the 4th quarter, but it would be fascinating to watch him go against people who would be athletic peers.

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  • #1031346
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    losnopesos
    Participant

    Hack a Wilt would keep him out of the game in the 4th quarter, but it would be fascinating to watch him go against people who would be athletic peers.

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    • #1031486
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      Ebown5
      Participant

      Wilt would still not have any peers athletically/physically. His athletic advantages would be smaller today, but they would still exist.

      You are right though that his free throw shooting would be his one weakness. If he could shoot 70% from the free throw line he could probably average 40 a game at least.

      He would be the best player in the league for sure, even with that weakness. He would be the best offensive, and defensive player.

      30-35 points, 18-20 rebounds, 5-6 assists 4-5 blocks, etc…

       

       

       

       

       

        

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    • #1031352
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      Ebown5
      Participant

      Wilt would still not have any peers athletically/physically. His athletic advantages would be smaller today, but they would still exist.

      You are right though that his free throw shooting would be his one weakness. If he could shoot 70% from the free throw line he could probably average 40 a game at least.

      He would be the best player in the league for sure, even with that weakness. He would be the best offensive, and defensive player.

      30-35 points, 18-20 rebounds, 5-6 assists 4-5 blocks, etc…

       

       

       

       

       

        

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      • #1031514
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        Dazzling Dunks and Basketball Bloopers
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         There is absolutely no way in hell Chamberlain would put up those numbers in today’s game. The numbers that wilt put up back in the early 60s were 99% a product of him being just being way bigger and more athletic than pretty much everyone he played against. He was a 7-1 world class athletic freak who was literally playing against 6-7 centers that could barely get off the ground. They were literally helpless to guard him. If you watch highlights of him you can clearly see that his post game was not that developed because it didn’t have to be. His best move seemed to be to either back his man down to the point where he could just jump up and dunk the ball or throw up a turnaround finger roll that if he missed he would just jump over the guy to get the rebound and dunk it. Even shaqs skill level was way more advanced than wilt. 

        If wilts tremendous size and athleticism advantages were neutralized, as they would be in today’s game, I think you are looking at someone who would struggle to score. I actually think he would be more of a defensive center than an offensive focal point. 

         

         

         

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      • #1031648
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        Dazzling Dunks and Basketball Bloopers
        Participant

         There is absolutely no way in hell Chamberlain would put up those numbers in today’s game. The numbers that wilt put up back in the early 60s were 99% a product of him being just being way bigger and more athletic than pretty much everyone he played against. He was a 7-1 world class athletic freak who was literally playing against 6-7 centers that could barely get off the ground. They were literally helpless to guard him. If you watch highlights of him you can clearly see that his post game was not that developed because it didn’t have to be. His best move seemed to be to either back his man down to the point where he could just jump up and dunk the ball or throw up a turnaround finger roll that if he missed he would just jump over the guy to get the rebound and dunk it. Even shaqs skill level was way more advanced than wilt. 

        If wilts tremendous size and athleticism advantages were neutralized, as they would be in today’s game, I think you are looking at someone who would struggle to score. I actually think he would be more of a defensive center than an offensive focal point. 

         

         

         

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      • #1031749
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        circumlocution75
        Participant

         that’s why some of the stats were so blown up not b/c the competition was not strong…. For example when Westbrook went on his Triple Double run last year they calculated that if he had the same # of possessions that Oscar Robertson had in his famous Triple Double year – the #’s would be similar….

         I don’t think people understand what a true Giant & freak athlete Chamberlain really was…. He ran the Hurdles for the Univ of Kansas divsion I Track team & it is well documented that Chamberlain bench pressed 550 lbs…. 

        The man was a legit 7 foot Plus & weighed 300+ lbs….. I never really appreciated exactly what a space alien Chamberlain truly was until I listend to Sonny Hill’s radio show on Sunday monrings – he might have a Podcast – but it is a MUST listen to if you Luv Basketball History…..

        Sonny went to High School w/ Wilt at Overbrook H.S. in West Phila & he has run the famous Sonny Hill summer basketball League in Philadelphia for 50 years…. It seems like Every NBA & top college prospect from the N.Y., Phila, Wash D.C. corrider in the Northeastern United States has played there when they were kids….

        Hill is a treasure trove of information & while no one could put up those #’s from the 60’s I think Chamberlain & Russell would still be stars in today’s NBA….. Would they dominate Every single year for over a decade – I doubt that but like today’s greats they would have that 5 – 7 year prim from about 26 – 32 in their prime…. 

        Great topic & I DEF recommend checking out Sonny Hill’s radio show – every Sunday morning on 94.1 WIP – He’s an Amazing guy & he gives 1st hand eye witness accounts of All the old time greats! 

         

         

         

         

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      • #1031615
        Avatar
        circumlocution75
        Participant

         that’s why some of the stats were so blown up not b/c the competition was not strong…. For example when Westbrook went on his Triple Double run last year they calculated that if he had the same # of possessions that Oscar Robertson had in his famous Triple Double year – the #’s would be similar….

         I don’t think people understand what a true Giant & freak athlete Chamberlain really was…. He ran the Hurdles for the Univ of Kansas divsion I Track team & it is well documented that Chamberlain bench pressed 550 lbs…. 

        The man was a legit 7 foot Plus & weighed 300+ lbs….. I never really appreciated exactly what a space alien Chamberlain truly was until I listend to Sonny Hill’s radio show on Sunday monrings – he might have a Podcast – but it is a MUST listen to if you Luv Basketball History…..

        Sonny went to High School w/ Wilt at Overbrook H.S. in West Phila & he has run the famous Sonny Hill summer basketball League in Philadelphia for 50 years…. It seems like Every NBA & top college prospect from the N.Y., Phila, Wash D.C. corrider in the Northeastern United States has played there when they were kids….

        Hill is a treasure trove of information & while no one could put up those #’s from the 60’s I think Chamberlain & Russell would still be stars in today’s NBA….. Would they dominate Every single year for over a decade – I doubt that but like today’s greats they would have that 5 – 7 year prim from about 26 – 32 in their prime…. 

        Great topic & I DEF recommend checking out Sonny Hill’s radio show – every Sunday morning on 94.1 WIP – He’s an Amazing guy & he gives 1st hand eye witness accounts of All the old time greats! 

         

         

         

         

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    • #1031515
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      doubledribbler
      Participant

       There are a lot of poor free throw shooters that are big men. If poor foul shooting isn’t going to keep Deandre Jordan out in the 4th, it certainly isn’t going to keep out Wilt. If anything Wilt is going to put pressure on the other team by drawing fouls.

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    • #1031381
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      doubledribbler
      Participant

       There are a lot of poor free throw shooters that are big men. If poor foul shooting isn’t going to keep Deandre Jordan out in the 4th, it certainly isn’t going to keep out Wilt. If anything Wilt is going to put pressure on the other team by drawing fouls.

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  • #1031482
    canadabasketballisrising
    canadabasketballisrising
    Participant

     Nobody knows for sure; is’t definintely a dichotomy as the competition would be better, considering the average height was about 6"9′ and 215lbs for a centre at the time, but at the same time, new traning methodsa and technology would be avilable to wilt. Alot of it, in my opinion, would depend on how hard Wilt and Bill would be willing to work, given the advancements in traning and preperation available to them… Would they have the mindset of a Dwight Howard or Deandre Jordan, or that of Kobe and Jordan? I htink they would fall somewhere in the middle, but to which extent? Would they grow comfortable dominating lesser compeition in highhscool and not be obssesive about greatness? 

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  • #1031348
    canadabasketballisrising
    canadabasketballisrising
    Participant

     Nobody knows for sure; is’t definintely a dichotomy as the competition would be better, considering the average height was about 6"9′ and 215lbs for a centre at the time, but at the same time, new traning methodsa and technology would be avilable to wilt. Alot of it, in my opinion, would depend on how hard Wilt and Bill would be willing to work, given the advancements in traning and preperation available to them… Would they have the mindset of a Dwight Howard or Deandre Jordan, or that of Kobe and Jordan? I htink they would fall somewhere in the middle, but to which extent? Would they grow comfortable dominating lesser compeition in highhscool and not be obssesive about greatness? 

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  • #1031484
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    Magic Jordan
    Participant

     Wilt was a modern day NBA athlete… but 50 years ago.  For that I think he would still find success.  But he wouldn’t average 50 points or score 100 in a game or any of those crazy accolades.  

    Russell on the other hand I don’t think would see the court much.  He was like a 6’9" 225 pound center.  Say what you want about me being disrespectful or not appreciating the history of the game, but if we are being honest he wouldn’t see the court much.  If he did, imagine a Clint Capela type impact… minimal.

     

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  • #1031350
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    Magic Jordan
    Participant

     Wilt was a modern day NBA athlete… but 50 years ago.  For that I think he would still find success.  But he wouldn’t average 50 points or score 100 in a game or any of those crazy accolades.  

    Russell on the other hand I don’t think would see the court much.  He was like a 6’9" 225 pound center.  Say what you want about me being disrespectful or not appreciating the history of the game, but if we are being honest he wouldn’t see the court much.  If he did, imagine a Clint Capela type impact… minimal.

     

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    • #1031488
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      Ebown5
      Participant

      That is sillyness. He would have to put on weight for sure, but he is better than any other center in the game right now. He may have been 6’9 and change, but with his wingspan he would still have great length for the position.

      He would be comparable size wise to someone like Ewing or Hakeem and would be the best rebounder and shotblocker in the league. 

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    • #1031354
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      Ebown5
      Participant

      That is sillyness. He would have to put on weight for sure, but he is better than any other center in the game right now. He may have been 6’9 and change, but with his wingspan he would still have great length for the position.

      He would be comparable size wise to someone like Ewing or Hakeem and would be the best rebounder and shotblocker in the league. 

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    • #1031490
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      Gold Chain

       Russell was a Rodman-level rebounder and defender, dumbazz.

      Wilt and Russell were both modern level athletes, and with modern nutrition, suppliments, and skill-enhancement workouts they would both be dominant today.

      Wilt would be like a taller, MVP winning Drummond, and Russell would be a perennial MVP candidate level player as a more offensively skilled version of Dennis Rodman with the kind of intangibles and leadership that are extremely rare in today’s NBA.

      I guess KG would be the best modern comparison for Bill Russell, but Russell had much better hops and shot blocking.

      And don’t forget that player height back then was actual player height, not playing in 1.5" Air Max heels.

       

       

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    • #1031356
      Avatar
      Gold Chain

       Russell was a Rodman-level rebounder and defender, dumbazz.

      Wilt and Russell were both modern level athletes, and with modern nutrition, suppliments, and skill-enhancement workouts they would both be dominant today.

      Wilt would be like a taller, MVP winning Drummond, and Russell would be a perennial MVP candidate level player as a more offensively skilled version of Dennis Rodman with the kind of intangibles and leadership that are extremely rare in today’s NBA.

      I guess KG would be the best modern comparison for Bill Russell, but Russell had much better hops and shot blocking.

      And don’t forget that player height back then was actual player height, not playing in 1.5" Air Max heels.

       

       

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      • #1031513
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        daggers818
        Participant

         T-Rex is so right!  Wilt was a world-class athlete in track and field.  He could high jump over 7 ft — as a seven-footer, incredible!  He was an NCAA hurdles champion.  All this gushing of Porzingis’s skills at his size (I like KP too), but he is nowhere near as gifted an athlete as Wilt was at 7’2".  As an old head here, I watched him play, he was amazing, with the strength of Shaq, and would easily be the best center today.  The average height may have increased (I’ll take whoever said that at their word), but don’t forget about the GAME of basketball which is based on fundamentals, teamwork, smarts, timing, shooting, chemistry, coaching, etc.  Wilt and Russell had all that too.  It’s not ALL about who can jump the highest or who is the biggest so STOP with all that B.S.  Look at Draymond Green is who is killing it with all the above and who does not have an elite basketball body.  Or Tim Duncan for that matter.

        Russell was smaller, but fast, also a great jumper, unmatched defensive instincts, and perhaps the best leader this side of Magic who has ever played the game.  Watch him go coast to coast on youtube and try not to be impressed and tell me that he couldn’t do that today?

        Fans, there is a continuity of players in this great game of ours that allows for the great ones of each generation to be spoken of in the same breaths as modern day players without tainting their accomplishments or relegating those to some average Clint Capela today – what a joke.  Are you going to tell me in 20 years that Jordan would be some average shootign guard only?  Russell played against Wilt who played against Kareem who played against Dr J (you have seen what he was doing 45 years ago in 1970-ish NYC, right?) who played against Jordan who played against Kobe who played against Lebron who played against Curry and on and on and on…They battled each other fiercely in those games.  They had to play their best to win.  That has to mean that those players were great then and would be great now (even greater due to better training, nutrition, and footwear — don’t laugh — try dunking, cutting, etc at throwing down with old Chuck Taylors!).

        Signed…old short, slow dude who can still ball at 52 against 20 year olds and light them up.

         

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      • #1031379
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        daggers818
        Participant

         T-Rex is so right!  Wilt was a world-class athlete in track and field.  He could high jump over 7 ft — as a seven-footer, incredible!  He was an NCAA hurdles champion.  All this gushing of Porzingis’s skills at his size (I like KP too), but he is nowhere near as gifted an athlete as Wilt was at 7’2".  As an old head here, I watched him play, he was amazing, with the strength of Shaq, and would easily be the best center today.  The average height may have increased (I’ll take whoever said that at their word), but don’t forget about the GAME of basketball which is based on fundamentals, teamwork, smarts, timing, shooting, chemistry, coaching, etc.  Wilt and Russell had all that too.  It’s not ALL about who can jump the highest or who is the biggest so STOP with all that B.S.  Look at Draymond Green is who is killing it with all the above and who does not have an elite basketball body.  Or Tim Duncan for that matter.

        Russell was smaller, but fast, also a great jumper, unmatched defensive instincts, and perhaps the best leader this side of Magic who has ever played the game.  Watch him go coast to coast on youtube and try not to be impressed and tell me that he couldn’t do that today?

        Fans, there is a continuity of players in this great game of ours that allows for the great ones of each generation to be spoken of in the same breaths as modern day players without tainting their accomplishments or relegating those to some average Clint Capela today – what a joke.  Are you going to tell me in 20 years that Jordan would be some average shootign guard only?  Russell played against Wilt who played against Kareem who played against Dr J (you have seen what he was doing 45 years ago in 1970-ish NYC, right?) who played against Jordan who played against Kobe who played against Lebron who played against Curry and on and on and on…They battled each other fiercely in those games.  They had to play their best to win.  That has to mean that those players were great then and would be great now (even greater due to better training, nutrition, and footwear — don’t laugh — try dunking, cutting, etc at throwing down with old Chuck Taylors!).

        Signed…old short, slow dude who can still ball at 52 against 20 year olds and light them up.

         

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    • #1031496
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      ItsVictorOladipo
      Participant

      Russell on the other hand I don’t think would see the court much. He was like a 6’9" 225 pound center. Say what you want about me being disrespectful or not appreciating the history of the game, but if we are being honest he wouldn’t see the court much. If he did, imagine a Clint Capela type impact… minimal.

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      Sorry, but this is just wrong. Russell is criminally underrated as an athlete nowadays. He was usually listed at between 6-9 and 6-10, which means with today’s measurements he would probably be listed around 6-11. He never had the weight training, the nutritionists and strength and conditioning coaching that he would get nowadays which would probably help him add another 15-20 pounds of muscle to his ripped physique. 

      And his ahtleticism was elite, even by todays standards. He was a track superstar that in 1956 had the seventh best high jump total in the WORLD. He also ran 400m in 49.6 seconds. 

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWelUNrJUMM

       

       

       

       

       

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    • #1031362
      Avatar
      ItsVictorOladipo
      Participant

      Russell on the other hand I don’t think would see the court much. He was like a 6’9" 225 pound center. Say what you want about me being disrespectful or not appreciating the history of the game, but if we are being honest he wouldn’t see the court much. If he did, imagine a Clint Capela type impact… minimal.

      ———————————————————————————————————–


      Sorry, but this is just wrong. Russell is criminally underrated as an athlete nowadays. He was usually listed at between 6-9 and 6-10, which means with today’s measurements he would probably be listed around 6-11. He never had the weight training, the nutritionists and strength and conditioning coaching that he would get nowadays which would probably help him add another 15-20 pounds of muscle to his ripped physique. 

      And his ahtleticism was elite, even by todays standards. He was a track superstar that in 1956 had the seventh best high jump total in the WORLD. He also ran 400m in 49.6 seconds. 

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWelUNrJUMM

       

       

       

       

       

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      • #1031508
        Avatar
        Magic Jordan
        Participant

         I didn’t know we were using the hypotheticals.  I took the question as, would the players then, be able to play now.  

         Who knows, Bill Russell could have been KD with todays training and youth sports etc.

        But that’s not what happened is it?  Placing Russell THEN, you know… the real Russell, not some fake Russell with modern day training.  He wouldn’t see the court in todays game.  If he did.  He would be a nice bench player…. maybe.

        I think it’s so ridiculous to compare someone who played in the 50’s and 60’s to people today.  The worst player in the NBA today would have absolutely destroyed the league back then.  

        Someone like Nick Young would have averaged at least 35 PPG.  The game was completely different.  Their equivalent of a nice basketball move was dribbling, slowing down to focus, spin slowly while still dribbling… I know you know exactly what move I was talking about.

        Nobody dribbled between the legs (allows for change of directions quicker), spins, hop steps, step backs etc.  Completely different game.  Not just from an athletic stand point.  But a skill stand point as well.

        I get it, Russell provided your Celtics with 11 rings during the infancy of the league, and the Celtics have only had a handful of success since then.  Primarly during the 80’s.  So you really latch on to those championships against 7 other extremely talented teams.

        That’s cool, I respect that.  But it doesn’t change how I look at it.  And if you played the game that early, then yeah… you are penalized in my eyes if that’s how you want to look at it.  I don’t see it that way.  We can acknowledge and appreciate what the old timers did without giving them life time achievment awards.  Much like EVERYTHING in the world, the game evolves, rendering what comes before it appear to be a little vanilla.

        Should the Model T be considered the greatest car ever because it was first?  Even though a bottom level Kia today beats it in every way?

        Is the Homo Erectus still the supreme form of man?  Would the Homo Erectus be able to jump into society today, with today’s brains, and technology and seemlessly fit in?  You can answer that for yourself.

        It’s no disrespect to say the ones that paved the way for the game to evolve into what it is now, have also been rendered obsolete due to it’s evolution.  It’s just the way things work.

        I have no problem with Celtic fans clinging on to the most successful part of their franchise.  Even though it happened under the circumstances that it did.  That’s fine.  They had a nice 10 year run in the 80’s but other than that… haven’t had a ton of success.  So it’s natural.

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

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      • #1031374
        Avatar
        Magic Jordan
        Participant

         I didn’t know we were using the hypotheticals.  I took the question as, would the players then, be able to play now.  

         Who knows, Bill Russell could have been KD with todays training and youth sports etc.

        But that’s not what happened is it?  Placing Russell THEN, you know… the real Russell, not some fake Russell with modern day training.  He wouldn’t see the court in todays game.  If he did.  He would be a nice bench player…. maybe.

        I think it’s so ridiculous to compare someone who played in the 50’s and 60’s to people today.  The worst player in the NBA today would have absolutely destroyed the league back then.  

        Someone like Nick Young would have averaged at least 35 PPG.  The game was completely different.  Their equivalent of a nice basketball move was dribbling, slowing down to focus, spin slowly while still dribbling… I know you know exactly what move I was talking about.

        Nobody dribbled between the legs (allows for change of directions quicker), spins, hop steps, step backs etc.  Completely different game.  Not just from an athletic stand point.  But a skill stand point as well.

        I get it, Russell provided your Celtics with 11 rings during the infancy of the league, and the Celtics have only had a handful of success since then.  Primarly during the 80’s.  So you really latch on to those championships against 7 other extremely talented teams.

        That’s cool, I respect that.  But it doesn’t change how I look at it.  And if you played the game that early, then yeah… you are penalized in my eyes if that’s how you want to look at it.  I don’t see it that way.  We can acknowledge and appreciate what the old timers did without giving them life time achievment awards.  Much like EVERYTHING in the world, the game evolves, rendering what comes before it appear to be a little vanilla.

        Should the Model T be considered the greatest car ever because it was first?  Even though a bottom level Kia today beats it in every way?

        Is the Homo Erectus still the supreme form of man?  Would the Homo Erectus be able to jump into society today, with today’s brains, and technology and seemlessly fit in?  You can answer that for yourself.

        It’s no disrespect to say the ones that paved the way for the game to evolve into what it is now, have also been rendered obsolete due to it’s evolution.  It’s just the way things work.

        I have no problem with Celtic fans clinging on to the most successful part of their franchise.  Even though it happened under the circumstances that it did.  That’s fine.  They had a nice 10 year run in the 80’s but other than that… haven’t had a ton of success.  So it’s natural.

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

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        • #1031516
          Avatar
          Gold Chain

           doubling down on dumbazz. 

          What else can a Lakers fan do these days to feel good about something.

          Clint Capela, why not Bizmack Biyambo or Ryan Hollins.

          That would definitely get you through the week as a Lakers fan.

           

           

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        • #1031383
          Avatar
          Gold Chain

           doubling down on dumbazz. 

          What else can a Lakers fan do these days to feel good about something.

          Clint Capela, why not Bizmack Biyambo or Ryan Hollins.

          That would definitely get you through the week as a Lakers fan.

           

           

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          • #1031520
            Avatar
            Magic Jordan
            Participant

             Bizmack is significantly larger, and Ryan Hollins is well.  Ryan Hollins.

            Capela is a good physical comparison for Bill Russell douche.

            What does me being a Lakers fan have to do with me pointing out the Celtics lack of success? I know you operate with no objectiveness…. but much like our conversation about players, I am much more evolved than you… I have no problem doing it.

             

             

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          • #1031386
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            Magic Jordan
            Participant

             Bizmack is significantly larger, and Ryan Hollins is well.  Ryan Hollins.

            Capela is a good physical comparison for Bill Russell douche.

            What does me being a Lakers fan have to do with me pointing out the Celtics lack of success? I know you operate with no objectiveness…. but much like our conversation about players, I am much more evolved than you… I have no problem doing it.

             

             

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            • #1031530
              Avatar
              Gold Chain

               What does you being a Laker fan have to do with you bashing Bill Russell with backhanded compliments, while giving Wilt the benefit of the doubt? 

              Lol. I can’t tell if you’re better at Being a dumbazz or better at Pretending to be a dumbazz.

              And you’ll find any excuse to trivialize Russell’s 11 championships because the Celtics have more championships than your Lakers.

              You don’t have to be a T-Rex to figure that out.

               

               

               

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            • #1031397
              Avatar
              Gold Chain

               What does you being a Laker fan have to do with you bashing Bill Russell with backhanded compliments, while giving Wilt the benefit of the doubt? 

              Lol. I can’t tell if you’re better at Being a dumbazz or better at Pretending to be a dumbazz.

              And you’ll find any excuse to trivialize Russell’s 11 championships because the Celtics have more championships than your Lakers.

              You don’t have to be a T-Rex to figure that out.

               

               

               

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              • #1031532
                Avatar
                Magic Jordan
                Participant

                 Yeah, that’s great.  I don’t care if your favorite sports team has more championships than my favorite sports team?  I don’t watch sports to say "Mine is better than yours".  I could do that with you in real life… in every aspect.  

                It doesn’t change the fact they won their championships when they did.  Against a whopping 7 other teams.  And have won, what 4 in the past 40 years?

                Wilt was the better athlete, and he was bigger than Russell.  Hence he gets the, "he would fair better" treatment from me if we are talking about todays NBA.  Of course which I follwed with he wouldn’t be lighting the world on fire… which you naturally chose to ignore while your engulfed in your bean town anger about someone saying a player from the 50’s and 60’s would be considered a small/ slight of frame center.  Which is definitely true.

                There are no backhanded compliments here towards Russell.  He was great at what he did, when he did it.  Doesn’t mean he gets the "great forever" pass from me.

                For a 40 year old man you get pretty bent out of shape when someone says something about your Celtics.  Is that a Boston thing?  Bill Simmons acts the same way.

                 

                 

                 

                 

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              • #1031399
                Avatar
                Magic Jordan
                Participant

                 Yeah, that’s great.  I don’t care if your favorite sports team has more championships than my favorite sports team?  I don’t watch sports to say "Mine is better than yours".  I could do that with you in real life… in every aspect.  

                It doesn’t change the fact they won their championships when they did.  Against a whopping 7 other teams.  And have won, what 4 in the past 40 years?

                Wilt was the better athlete, and he was bigger than Russell.  Hence he gets the, "he would fair better" treatment from me if we are talking about todays NBA.  Of course which I follwed with he wouldn’t be lighting the world on fire… which you naturally chose to ignore while your engulfed in your bean town anger about someone saying a player from the 50’s and 60’s would be considered a small/ slight of frame center.  Which is definitely true.

                There are no backhanded compliments here towards Russell.  He was great at what he did, when he did it.  Doesn’t mean he gets the "great forever" pass from me.

                For a 40 year old man you get pretty bent out of shape when someone says something about your Celtics.  Is that a Boston thing?  Bill Simmons acts the same way.

                 

                 

                 

                 

                0
                • #1031534
                  Avatar
                  Gold Chain

                   I’m 36, but point taken.

                  I’ll let everybody else dismantle your argument.

                   

                   

                  0
                • #1031401
                  Avatar
                  Gold Chain

                   I’m 36, but point taken.

                  I’ll let everybody else dismantle your argument.

                   

                   

                  0
                  • #1031536
                    Avatar
                    Magic Jordan
                    Participant

                     It’s more fun to watch you routinely fail to do so.

                    0
                  • #1031403
                    Avatar
                    Magic Jordan
                    Participant

                     It’s more fun to watch you routinely fail to do so.

                    0
          • #1031465
            Avatar
            daggers818
            Participant

            Gold Chain, you are right, but your points would be more correct if you could de-couple the Lakers fan from these kinds of postings.  I am a huge Lakers fan for 47 years now.  I am suffering through this dismal period and hope for the best.  We’ve had tons of success and these things go in phases so it’s all good.  We are all not delusional, some of us our sensible about our shortcomings so please do not put us in one pot.  It diminishes your otherwise good take.

            My hope and expectation is that the Lakers will get a solid coach, develop their young talent, sign some good (great?) free agents, and put together a young team that plays hard, shows potential, and is fun to watch.  Kind of like the "Lake Show" during the Van Exel years which were down years by Lakers standards but still good, entertaining basketball.  From there, winnning breeds winning and hopefully the Lakers will move back to the top echelon over a period of years.

            Thanks

            0
          • #1031598
            Avatar
            daggers818
            Participant

            Gold Chain, you are right, but your points would be more correct if you could de-couple the Lakers fan from these kinds of postings.  I am a huge Lakers fan for 47 years now.  I am suffering through this dismal period and hope for the best.  We’ve had tons of success and these things go in phases so it’s all good.  We are all not delusional, some of us our sensible about our shortcomings so please do not put us in one pot.  It diminishes your otherwise good take.

            My hope and expectation is that the Lakers will get a solid coach, develop their young talent, sign some good (great?) free agents, and put together a young team that plays hard, shows potential, and is fun to watch.  Kind of like the "Lake Show" during the Van Exel years which were down years by Lakers standards but still good, entertaining basketball.  From there, winnning breeds winning and hopefully the Lakers will move back to the top echelon over a period of years.

            Thanks

            0
        • #1031522
          Avatar
          lalaila
          Participant

          If Nick Young would had lived in 60’s he also wouldn’t know how to dribble between the legs..

          While Put Russell here and in a few years he could do everything Anthony Davis can and better, except shooting

           

          0
        • #1031389
          Avatar
          lalaila
          Participant

          If Nick Young would had lived in 60’s he also wouldn’t know how to dribble between the legs..

          While Put Russell here and in a few years he could do everything Anthony Davis can and better, except shooting

           

          0
          • #1031526
            Avatar
            Magic Jordan
            Participant

             Okay fair point, but if we are giving Russell modern day training, we can’t send modern day Nick Young to reck the NBA in the 50’s?

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          • #1031393
            Avatar
            Magic Jordan
            Participant

             Okay fair point, but if we are giving Russell modern day training, we can’t send modern day Nick Young to reck the NBA in the 50’s?

            0
            • #1031546
              Avatar
              Gold Chain

               No, we can’t pretend Nick Young would be a basketball prophet from the future with advanced moves like that.

              It shouldn’t be so hard for you to grasp the concept that Russell and Wilt would have access to the same modern nutrition, suppliments, and training/skill development methods if they were coming of age today.

              But somehow you just imagine that they would be eating 50 year old food, and would never run into youtube or any decent coaching.

              Too far a leap of imagination for you. Just like the leap of imagination to imagine that Nick Young wouldn’t be an MVP if he was born in the 1940s.

               

              0
            • #1031413
              Avatar
              Gold Chain

               No, we can’t pretend Nick Young would be a basketball prophet from the future with advanced moves like that.

              It shouldn’t be so hard for you to grasp the concept that Russell and Wilt would have access to the same modern nutrition, suppliments, and training/skill development methods if they were coming of age today.

              But somehow you just imagine that they would be eating 50 year old food, and would never run into youtube or any decent coaching.

              Too far a leap of imagination for you. Just like the leap of imagination to imagine that Nick Young wouldn’t be an MVP if he was born in the 1940s.

               

              0
              • #1031439
                Avatar
                Magic Jordan
                Participant

                 Yeah, using an example like Nick Young in the 50s is so far fetched,  yet contemplating whether Russell and Wilt could play today isn’t?  Perfect logic.  

                Whatever your simple mind needs to perpetuate your argument use it.  

                 

                Why stop at Russell and Wilt?  Who knows.  Maybe JFK could have turned into an all star had he been taken from his era and given today’s training and yadayadayada.  Using hypotheticals to fit your narrative.

                What we do know is who they were as players when they actually played.  And Russell woumd be a nice rotation big… Maybe.

                 

                 

                 

                 

                0
              • #1031572
                Avatar
                Magic Jordan
                Participant

                 Yeah, using an example like Nick Young in the 50s is so far fetched,  yet contemplating whether Russell and Wilt could play today isn’t?  Perfect logic.  

                Whatever your simple mind needs to perpetuate your argument use it.  

                 

                Why stop at Russell and Wilt?  Who knows.  Maybe JFK could have turned into an all star had he been taken from his era and given today’s training and yadayadayada.  Using hypotheticals to fit your narrative.

                What we do know is who they were as players when they actually played.  And Russell woumd be a nice rotation big… Maybe.

                 

                 

                 

                 

                0
            • #1031499
              Avatar
              SubZero
              Participant

              Actually no, you can’t. Just the opposite. If we’re using hypotheticals here, we’re placing them in whatever time period it is and putting them in the same situation that everyone else in that period played in. So it would be more fair to give Nick Young the same disadvantages that everyone else played in back then, because that’s what it would be. Not if he time traveled back then and got to reap the benefits of modern day training and nutrition

              0
            • #1031632
              Avatar
              SubZero
              Participant

              Actually no, you can’t. Just the opposite. If we’re using hypotheticals here, we’re placing them in whatever time period it is and putting them in the same situation that everyone else in that period played in. So it would be more fair to give Nick Young the same disadvantages that everyone else played in back then, because that’s what it would be. Not if he time traveled back then and got to reap the benefits of modern day training and nutrition

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      • #1031518
        Avatar
        Magic Jordan
        Participant

         To further cement home my point.  While he was ranked 7th in the world in high jump.. His highest jump was 6’9" 1/4.  Which wouldn’t put him in the top 10 in present day high school jumpers.  Could be more but I don’t care enough to look how far down the list 6’9" is.

        Another interesting fact, he actually lost a high jump competition to Wilt.

         

        0
      • #1031385
        Avatar
        Magic Jordan
        Participant

         To further cement home my point.  While he was ranked 7th in the world in high jump.. His highest jump was 6’9" 1/4.  Which wouldn’t put him in the top 10 in present day high school jumpers.  Could be more but I don’t care enough to look how far down the list 6’9" is.

        Another interesting fact, he actually lost a high jump competition to Wilt.

         

        0
        • #1031540
          Avatar
          lalaila
          Participant

           once again you don’t understand the difference that they would be able to learn..

          this is how they jump over it back then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3drvcaXtAh4 they would lear and that probably would change the result in about a foot lol plus once again..better training better supplements

          0
        • #1031407
          Avatar
          lalaila
          Participant

           once again you don’t understand the difference that they would be able to learn..

          this is how they jump over it back then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3drvcaXtAh4 they would lear and that probably would change the result in about a foot lol plus once again..better training better supplements

          0
          • #1031548
            Avatar
            Gold Chain

             Not to mention they landed in a dirt pile. High jumping backwards like modern style would have been suicide.

            Broken backs and ribs, etc.

             

             

            0
          • #1031415
            Avatar
            Gold Chain

             Not to mention they landed in a dirt pile. High jumping backwards like modern style would have been suicide.

            Broken backs and ribs, etc.

             

             

            0
          • #1031505
            Avatar
            Magic Jordan
            Participant

             Wait, are you guys suggesting that the evolution of the high jump would have an impact on results/performance when comparing old style vs new style?  Go figure……

             

             

            0
          • #1031638
            Avatar
            Magic Jordan
            Participant

             Wait, are you guys suggesting that the evolution of the high jump would have an impact on results/performance when comparing old style vs new style?  Go figure……

             

             

            0
        • #1031483
          Avatar
          daggers818
          Participant

           I think the fair comparison would be those measurements compared to other basketball players.  Compared to today’s world-class track & field athletes, of course they would pale.  That’s a big man to get off the ground and achieve those heights, and I doubt there are many guys 6’9′ and over even today who could achieve that, especially NBA players.

          Comparing model T’s to today’s Ferrari is a bad comparison.  Technology is advancing at incredible growth rates affecting everything on an engineering and material level and the level of manufacturing is unreal compared to early 20th century methods.  The human being is evolving at very slow rates over eons.  The best sprinters, for example, are probably only 10% faster than, say Jesse Owens, of the 1930’s.  If today’s AVERAGE athlete is better, which they are, then they are only marginally better, and this generational advantage cannot possibly diminish the accomplishments of those past players, especially the elite ones.  Like I said in a prior post, is some youngster going to tell you in about 7 years that Michael Jordan could not hang in the modern NBA?  It will be 20 years since MJ would’ve been retired (the same difference between Wilt’s end and Jordan’s start), and I have a hard time imaging he wouldn’t be great then too.

          0
          • #1031501
            Avatar
            Magic Jordan
            Participant

             Maybe you missed the part where I compared Bill Russells high jump to todays HIGH SCHOOLERS.  Not world class athletes.  But High Schoolers.

            I also compared the model T to a Kia… not a Ferrari.  

            Jesse Owens ran a 10.3 for his fastest time in the 100m in Berlin… 1930’s.  Which means he wouldn’t have qualified for the Olympics in 2012 by a long shot.  He would have needed to hit a 10.18.  If you assume that there are baselines… meaning the fastest someone can run… for now is 9 seconds (nobody is close).  And we can use a slow time of 11 seconds just to prove a point.  That is a 2 second window.  When we are talking about world class athletes, that is a lot of time.  But… 25% of that would be half  a second.  Which is an eternity in sprinting.  Which is also the difference of pretty much any world class sprinter not named Usain Bolt and Owens.  More than 10%.

            Of course that is without me sitting down really looking at the numbers and making sense of them.  I’m not going to do that because I don’t care enough, nor do I need to to say that Russell would be an average NBA athlete in today… that is being generous.  

            This is also not taking into his account his complete lack of skill on a basketball court which nobody on this thread even seems to care about… you know the basketball stuff.  

            You can’t compare human evolution to eon’s… particularly in this context.  You are working with a very small, finite amount of time that basketball has been around.  So there is your comparison.  And if you compare todays NBA game to the game of then… it’s high school to pros… maybe more.

            Bill Russell played 50 years ago… not the 20 that MJ did.  But, in 30 years, if someone told me that MJ couldn’t hang in that days NBA, where they were shooting 55 foot 4 pointers.  And dunking on 11 foot rims.  I may EVALUATE and say… yeah you’re right.

            And there in lies your problem.  You are already admitting that you would be reluctant to bump MJ, or say he couldn’t play in that game… without even knowing what that game would look like.  That right there is the definition of making an uninformed decision…. something I choose to as little as possible… ESPECIALLY if there is video which my eyes can clearly see to help me with my decision… like there is.

            Like I said plenty of times on this thread, which you choose to also ignore, it’s not taking away past accomplishments as you would say to say that today’s even average players are light years ahead of older generations.  How does that diminish what they did?  How can you have a discussion about all time greats, when you refuse to take such simple things into account?

            Your all time list should simply read Naismith.

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

            0
            • #1031512
              Avatar
              daggers818
              Participant

              Sorry, this argument makes no sense to me.   Basketball is about so many more things than just jumping or court speed.  Not even sure what you are arguing any more!  My point is these guys were great, would be great today, and that there was so much more than just pure athleticism that would allow them to play today’s game at a high level.  I think Dr J’s windmill dunk or under-the-backboard swooping lay up would still be quite the show stopper today.  I think David Thompson would be comparable to any baller today in terms of athleticism (yet he was not the best NBA-er then, hence my point, it’s about so much more).  I still think Wilt would be 7’2" 285 with crazy hops and strength.  Respectfully, Daggers818.

              0
            • #1031646
              Avatar
              daggers818
              Participant

              Sorry, this argument makes no sense to me.   Basketball is about so many more things than just jumping or court speed.  Not even sure what you are arguing any more!  My point is these guys were great, would be great today, and that there was so much more than just pure athleticism that would allow them to play today’s game at a high level.  I think Dr J’s windmill dunk or under-the-backboard swooping lay up would still be quite the show stopper today.  I think David Thompson would be comparable to any baller today in terms of athleticism (yet he was not the best NBA-er then, hence my point, it’s about so much more).  I still think Wilt would be 7’2" 285 with crazy hops and strength.  Respectfully, Daggers818.

              0
          • #1031634
            Avatar
            Magic Jordan
            Participant

             Maybe you missed the part where I compared Bill Russells high jump to todays HIGH SCHOOLERS.  Not world class athletes.  But High Schoolers.

            I also compared the model T to a Kia… not a Ferrari.  

            Jesse Owens ran a 10.3 for his fastest time in the 100m in Berlin… 1930’s.  Which means he wouldn’t have qualified for the Olympics in 2012 by a long shot.  He would have needed to hit a 10.18.  If you assume that there are baselines… meaning the fastest someone can run… for now is 9 seconds (nobody is close).  And we can use a slow time of 11 seconds just to prove a point.  That is a 2 second window.  When we are talking about world class athletes, that is a lot of time.  But… 25% of that would be half  a second.  Which is an eternity in sprinting.  Which is also the difference of pretty much any world class sprinter not named Usain Bolt and Owens.  More than 10%.

            Of course that is without me sitting down really looking at the numbers and making sense of them.  I’m not going to do that because I don’t care enough, nor do I need to to say that Russell would be an average NBA athlete in today… that is being generous.  

            This is also not taking into his account his complete lack of skill on a basketball court which nobody on this thread even seems to care about… you know the basketball stuff.  

            You can’t compare human evolution to eon’s… particularly in this context.  You are working with a very small, finite amount of time that basketball has been around.  So there is your comparison.  And if you compare todays NBA game to the game of then… it’s high school to pros… maybe more.

            Bill Russell played 50 years ago… not the 20 that MJ did.  But, in 30 years, if someone told me that MJ couldn’t hang in that days NBA, where they were shooting 55 foot 4 pointers.  And dunking on 11 foot rims.  I may EVALUATE and say… yeah you’re right.

            And there in lies your problem.  You are already admitting that you would be reluctant to bump MJ, or say he couldn’t play in that game… without even knowing what that game would look like.  That right there is the definition of making an uninformed decision…. something I choose to as little as possible… ESPECIALLY if there is video which my eyes can clearly see to help me with my decision… like there is.

            Like I said plenty of times on this thread, which you choose to also ignore, it’s not taking away past accomplishments as you would say to say that today’s even average players are light years ahead of older generations.  How does that diminish what they did?  How can you have a discussion about all time greats, when you refuse to take such simple things into account?

            Your all time list should simply read Naismith.

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

            0
        • #1031616
          Avatar
          daggers818
          Participant

           I think the fair comparison would be those measurements compared to other basketball players.  Compared to today’s world-class track & field athletes, of course they would pale.  That’s a big man to get off the ground and achieve those heights, and I doubt there are many guys 6’9′ and over even today who could achieve that, especially NBA players.

          Comparing model T’s to today’s Ferrari is a bad comparison.  Technology is advancing at incredible growth rates affecting everything on an engineering and material level and the level of manufacturing is unreal compared to early 20th century methods.  The human being is evolving at very slow rates over eons.  The best sprinters, for example, are probably only 10% faster than, say Jesse Owens, of the 1930’s.  If today’s AVERAGE athlete is better, which they are, then they are only marginally better, and this generational advantage cannot possibly diminish the accomplishments of those past players, especially the elite ones.  Like I said in a prior post, is some youngster going to tell you in about 7 years that Michael Jordan could not hang in the modern NBA?  It will be 20 years since MJ would’ve been retired (the same difference between Wilt’s end and Jordan’s start), and I have a hard time imaging he wouldn’t be great then too.

          0
    • #1031491
      Avatar
      circumlocution75
      Participant

       Google the pic of the black athletes led by Jim Brown gathering to support Muhammed Ali after he was stripped of his Heavyweight Title Belt….. Kareem TOWERS over Bill Russell who was listed at barely 6’10” & 225 Lbs….

      Wilt on the other hand was a Legit 7’1” & 300+ lbs….. Chaberlain ran HURDLES on the Univ of Kansas Division1  track team & it is well documented Wilt bench pressed 550 Lbs (that is Not a misprint)…. Wilt’s otherworldly strength was Well documented & many okd time talk about how Wilt had to becareful not to hurt opponenets when he blocked shots or dunked…. One 6’9” 250 lb opponent foolishly tried to block a Wilt power dunk & Wilt broke his shoulder….. 

      Wilt was a freak of nature / space alien who could play in ANY era…. I think Russell would have been an excellent player but in today’s game he would not dominate….. 

       

       

      0
      • #1031495
        Avatar
        Magic Jordan
        Participant

         Because I am calling out a pioneer in basketball, and a celtic great… and the greatest of his era… for not being an all time great.

        Just because you came first, doesn’t mean you are one of the best.

         

        0
      • #1031628
        Avatar
        Magic Jordan
        Participant

         Because I am calling out a pioneer in basketball, and a celtic great… and the greatest of his era… for not being an all time great.

        Just because you came first, doesn’t mean you are one of the best.

         

        0
    • #1031624
      Avatar
      circumlocution75
      Participant

       Google the pic of the black athletes led by Jim Brown gathering to support Muhammed Ali after he was stripped of his Heavyweight Title Belt….. Kareem TOWERS over Bill Russell who was listed at barely 6’10” & 225 Lbs….

      Wilt on the other hand was a Legit 7’1” & 300+ lbs….. Chaberlain ran HURDLES on the Univ of Kansas Division1  track team & it is well documented Wilt bench pressed 550 Lbs (that is Not a misprint)…. Wilt’s otherworldly strength was Well documented & many okd time talk about how Wilt had to becareful not to hurt opponenets when he blocked shots or dunked…. One 6’9” 250 lb opponent foolishly tried to block a Wilt power dunk & Wilt broke his shoulder….. 

      Wilt was a freak of nature / space alien who could play in ANY era…. I think Russell would have been an excellent player but in today’s game he would not dominate….. 

       

       

      0
  • #1031492
    canadabasketballisrising
    canadabasketballisrising
    Participant

     sorry for all the spelling mistakes… was in a rush!

    0
  • #1031358
    canadabasketballisrising
    canadabasketballisrising
    Participant

     sorry for all the spelling mistakes… was in a rush!

    0
  • #1031498
    canadabasketballisrising
    canadabasketballisrising
    Participant

     complete guess, bit i would say, Wilt would average 23-15 (better offsenive version of drummond), and Russell would average 8 and 14. 

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  • #1031364
    canadabasketballisrising
    canadabasketballisrising
    Participant

     complete guess, bit i would say, Wilt would average 23-15 (better offsenive version of drummond), and Russell would average 8 and 14. 

    0
  • #1031500
    Avatar
    Memphis Madness
    Participant

     Drummond is averaging just over 17 points and 16 rebounds.  His steals are up there even if his blocks are low.  And, his team is COMPETING even though they don’t have too many weapons.  

    I would ASSUME that Bill Russell would put up SIMILAR stats but with MORE blocks.  Similar size and athleticism.  I would think that Russell has a higher Basketball IQ.  I would also give Russell a few more assists per game than Drummond’s 0.8.

    Wilt would be a rich man’s version of Hassan Whiteside.  Not mentally in every game, but when he is on he is on.  I would say that he would average AT LEAST 25 points a night.  Probably closer to 30.  

    Given that Drummond and Whiteside are the two best centers this season, and 2 of the top 10 or 15 guys, and Russell and Wilt are BETTER versions of these two, then that would mean that they would hold up really well.

    I would also argue that Wilt and Russell would be the best two BIGS in the league (better than Blake or Anthony Davis).  Those two along with LeBron, Russ, Durant, and Steph Curry would be the top MVP candidates.

    Bill Russell would be the IDEAL center defensively.  He would be the favorite for the DPOY.

    Wilt would also get votes for DPOY.

    Wilt and Russell would also make ANY team a playoff contender.  Or, put them on a playoff team and they are a LEGIT title contender.

    Might be a small ball league now, but Russell and Wilt are PERFECT CENTERS (other than free throws) for the new NBA — fantastic rim protectors, great athletes, incredible rebounders, power, and good passing skills.

    The ’72 Lakers would fit in well.  Wilt specializing in rebounding and defense (and shooting around 70% from the field).  West and Goodrich could both score, shoot, and pass.  Interchangible guards that were hard to deal with.  Then they had some solid forwards who did the little things.  

    Russell’s teams were also loaded with good guard play, shooters, and all-around defense.

    The NEXT thing will be teams playing BIG Small Ball.

    Small Ball elements of SHOOTING and all-around skills with team defense, THEN you get guys who can protect the rim, rebound, AND run the floor and throw down alley-oop dunks.  So you can get Porzingas at the 4 to play BIG Small Ball or at the 5 in spots.  Ben Simmons would be a BIG Small Ball 3 or a guy you can play at the 4.

    What I would do is say that you NEED a designated point guard.  Preferably a 6’3 or taller point guard.  AND you need a CENTER.  A classic center who can play both sides of the ball.  Either a good foul shooter or a good long-range shooter — preferably both.  Other than that — you just go out and get three guys who can do some of everything.  Guys from 6’6/6’7 to 6’9/6’10.  So, a team like the old Bulls teams that could throw out lineups of 6’6 backcourts of Ron Harper and Michael Jordan, 6’7 Pippen, 6’8 Rodman, and 6’11 point forward Kukoc.  Then they start Luc Longley who at 7’2 could defend, pass, rebound some, score some, and shoot some.  High basketball IQ and great team-first guy.  Basically a poor man’s Marc Gasol.

    The GREAT teams of any era were AHEAD of their time, and also transcended their own era.

    The first MODERN team featured an otherworldly prime center in Hakeem Olajuwon, Clyde Drexer on the wing as the put-your-head-down-and-slash-to-the-goal second option, uber 3 and D stretch four in Robert Horry, a do-everything wing in Mario Elie, and good combo guards who can handle the ball and really, really shoot it in Kenny Smith and Sam Cassell.  Very shallow bench but they had Tracy Murray as an oversized 6’8 small forward sniper from deep, Carl Herrara’s good shoulder as a nominal backup big, and a 6’9ish fossil at backup center (I think it was Charles Jones, another year though, they had Earl Cureton).  That was basically a BIG Small Ball Team.  Horry was 6’10 but could do small forward things… Hakeem was also 6’10 but LONG and could really shoot up to mid-range.  Clyde was a classic 6’7 power guard at the wing.  Elie was an undersized 3 but had good size for the 2.  Smith and Cassell were on the small size for shooting guards, but pretty good size for point guards.  

    So, they could go small.  If they had to go big then they could have gone with SIZE at every spot: Cassell at point, Drexler at the 2, Horry at the 3, Herrara at the 4, and Olajuwon at the 5.  The Dream was also versatile enough to play the 4 as he could guard ANYBODY and score from basically ANYWHERE.  He could also PASS.

    That team was also unique in that they were a defending championship team (the first year they started off 15-0 and 22-1) that went SMALLER.  They sent Vernon Maxwell to Siberia, and traded Otis Thorpe (and probably other assets) to Portland for Clyde Drexler.  So, they traded their second big for a bigger scoring guard, and moved Horry to the 4 and Elie to the starting 3 spot.  I don’t even think they had Matt Bullard on that repeat title team (a 6’10 stretch 4 type who specialized in shooting 3’s).  

    Magic and Bird were two other greats who played on teams who could play BIG or SMALL — with the Lakers able to offer elements of BOTH — at the same time.  

    Ironically, those Rockets teams and the ’96 Bulls teams went through ANOTHER great early edition of a BIG Small Ball Team: the Shaq/Penny Magic who had SIZE at every spot, and other than center, had a guy who could shoot from at least 15 feet.  Penny at 6’7 at point, Nick Anderson was 6’5 or 6’6, Dennis Scott was 6’8, Horace Grant was 6’10, and Shaq was 7’1.  Off the bench they even had a do-it-all combo guard in the 6’5/6’6 Brian Shaw along with a poor man’s stretch four in 6’9 Jeff Turner.

    I guess that is when the new version of Small Ball took over with the Rockets, Bulls, and Magic.  Even the Sonics had a BIG point guard in 6’4 Gary Payton, some scorers/shooters at the 2 in Kendall Gill and Hersey Hawkins, plus your backup point guard in 6’5 Nate McMillan.  Shawn Kemp was a 6’10 power forward who could guard anybody and also play center.  Aside from center Ervin Johnson, their other bigs were a couple of 6’9 versatile long-range shooting forwards in Detlef Shrempf and Sam Perkins.  Pat Riley’s old school Knicks and Heat squads couldn’t really compete.

    The Cavs had small ball elements with Mark Price’s long-range point guard assassin game, Craig Ehlo on the wing, and a center in Brad Daugherty who could score, shoot, and pass.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • #1031366
    Avatar
    Memphis Madness
    Participant

     Drummond is averaging just over 17 points and 16 rebounds.  His steals are up there even if his blocks are low.  And, his team is COMPETING even though they don’t have too many weapons.  

    I would ASSUME that Bill Russell would put up SIMILAR stats but with MORE blocks.  Similar size and athleticism.  I would think that Russell has a higher Basketball IQ.  I would also give Russell a few more assists per game than Drummond’s 0.8.

    Wilt would be a rich man’s version of Hassan Whiteside.  Not mentally in every game, but when he is on he is on.  I would say that he would average AT LEAST 25 points a night.  Probably closer to 30.  

    Given that Drummond and Whiteside are the two best centers this season, and 2 of the top 10 or 15 guys, and Russell and Wilt are BETTER versions of these two, then that would mean that they would hold up really well.

    I would also argue that Wilt and Russell would be the best two BIGS in the league (better than Blake or Anthony Davis).  Those two along with LeBron, Russ, Durant, and Steph Curry would be the top MVP candidates.

    Bill Russell would be the IDEAL center defensively.  He would be the favorite for the DPOY.

    Wilt would also get votes for DPOY.

    Wilt and Russell would also make ANY team a playoff contender.  Or, put them on a playoff team and they are a LEGIT title contender.

    Might be a small ball league now, but Russell and Wilt are PERFECT CENTERS (other than free throws) for the new NBA — fantastic rim protectors, great athletes, incredible rebounders, power, and good passing skills.

    The ’72 Lakers would fit in well.  Wilt specializing in rebounding and defense (and shooting around 70% from the field).  West and Goodrich could both score, shoot, and pass.  Interchangible guards that were hard to deal with.  Then they had some solid forwards who did the little things.  

    Russell’s teams were also loaded with good guard play, shooters, and all-around defense.

    The NEXT thing will be teams playing BIG Small Ball.

    Small Ball elements of SHOOTING and all-around skills with team defense, THEN you get guys who can protect the rim, rebound, AND run the floor and throw down alley-oop dunks.  So you can get Porzingas at the 4 to play BIG Small Ball or at the 5 in spots.  Ben Simmons would be a BIG Small Ball 3 or a guy you can play at the 4.

    What I would do is say that you NEED a designated point guard.  Preferably a 6’3 or taller point guard.  AND you need a CENTER.  A classic center who can play both sides of the ball.  Either a good foul shooter or a good long-range shooter — preferably both.  Other than that — you just go out and get three guys who can do some of everything.  Guys from 6’6/6’7 to 6’9/6’10.  So, a team like the old Bulls teams that could throw out lineups of 6’6 backcourts of Ron Harper and Michael Jordan, 6’7 Pippen, 6’8 Rodman, and 6’11 point forward Kukoc.  Then they start Luc Longley who at 7’2 could defend, pass, rebound some, score some, and shoot some.  High basketball IQ and great team-first guy.  Basically a poor man’s Marc Gasol.

    The GREAT teams of any era were AHEAD of their time, and also transcended their own era.

    The first MODERN team featured an otherworldly prime center in Hakeem Olajuwon, Clyde Drexer on the wing as the put-your-head-down-and-slash-to-the-goal second option, uber 3 and D stretch four in Robert Horry, a do-everything wing in Mario Elie, and good combo guards who can handle the ball and really, really shoot it in Kenny Smith and Sam Cassell.  Very shallow bench but they had Tracy Murray as an oversized 6’8 small forward sniper from deep, Carl Herrara’s good shoulder as a nominal backup big, and a 6’9ish fossil at backup center (I think it was Charles Jones, another year though, they had Earl Cureton).  That was basically a BIG Small Ball Team.  Horry was 6’10 but could do small forward things… Hakeem was also 6’10 but LONG and could really shoot up to mid-range.  Clyde was a classic 6’7 power guard at the wing.  Elie was an undersized 3 but had good size for the 2.  Smith and Cassell were on the small size for shooting guards, but pretty good size for point guards.  

    So, they could go small.  If they had to go big then they could have gone with SIZE at every spot: Cassell at point, Drexler at the 2, Horry at the 3, Herrara at the 4, and Olajuwon at the 5.  The Dream was also versatile enough to play the 4 as he could guard ANYBODY and score from basically ANYWHERE.  He could also PASS.

    That team was also unique in that they were a defending championship team (the first year they started off 15-0 and 22-1) that went SMALLER.  They sent Vernon Maxwell to Siberia, and traded Otis Thorpe (and probably other assets) to Portland for Clyde Drexler.  So, they traded their second big for a bigger scoring guard, and moved Horry to the 4 and Elie to the starting 3 spot.  I don’t even think they had Matt Bullard on that repeat title team (a 6’10 stretch 4 type who specialized in shooting 3’s).  

    Magic and Bird were two other greats who played on teams who could play BIG or SMALL — with the Lakers able to offer elements of BOTH — at the same time.  

    Ironically, those Rockets teams and the ’96 Bulls teams went through ANOTHER great early edition of a BIG Small Ball Team: the Shaq/Penny Magic who had SIZE at every spot, and other than center, had a guy who could shoot from at least 15 feet.  Penny at 6’7 at point, Nick Anderson was 6’5 or 6’6, Dennis Scott was 6’8, Horace Grant was 6’10, and Shaq was 7’1.  Off the bench they even had a do-it-all combo guard in the 6’5/6’6 Brian Shaw along with a poor man’s stretch four in 6’9 Jeff Turner.

    I guess that is when the new version of Small Ball took over with the Rockets, Bulls, and Magic.  Even the Sonics had a BIG point guard in 6’4 Gary Payton, some scorers/shooters at the 2 in Kendall Gill and Hersey Hawkins, plus your backup point guard in 6’5 Nate McMillan.  Shawn Kemp was a 6’10 power forward who could guard anybody and also play center.  Aside from center Ervin Johnson, their other bigs were a couple of 6’9 versatile long-range shooting forwards in Detlef Shrempf and Sam Perkins.  Pat Riley’s old school Knicks and Heat squads couldn’t really compete.

    The Cavs had small ball elements with Mark Price’s long-range point guard assassin game, Craig Ehlo on the wing, and a center in Brad Daugherty who could score, shoot, and pass.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • #1031502
    canadabasketballisrising
    canadabasketballisrising
    Participant

     with 4 blocks, (kind of like whiteside)

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  • #1031368
    canadabasketballisrising
    canadabasketballisrising
    Participant

     with 4 blocks, (kind of like whiteside)

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  • #1031504
    Avatar
    Memphis Madness
    Participant

     In the old days, you basically had 3 positions: guard, forward, and center.

    Could be reverting to that.

    Another great small ball team where all 5 guys could shoot, pass, AND DEFEND were those great Knicks teams.  One version featured Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe at guard, Bill Bradley and Dave DaBuscherre at forward, with Willis Reed at center.  Jerry Lucas was the 6th man who could rebound and shoot.

    The difference now is that guys are more athletic and stronger, and, of course, you have the 3 point line.

     

     

     

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  • #1031370
    Avatar
    Memphis Madness
    Participant

     In the old days, you basically had 3 positions: guard, forward, and center.

    Could be reverting to that.

    Another great small ball team where all 5 guys could shoot, pass, AND DEFEND were those great Knicks teams.  One version featured Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe at guard, Bill Bradley and Dave DaBuscherre at forward, with Willis Reed at center.  Jerry Lucas was the 6th man who could rebound and shoot.

    The difference now is that guys are more athletic and stronger, and, of course, you have the 3 point line.

     

     

     

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  • #1031511
    Avatar
    lalaila
    Participant

    to someone who said Russell coudnt play because he was 6’9 215 he actually was around 6’10 240 pretty muscular that means with todays supplements he could easily get even into 250’s and his height with shoes would be 6’11 plus 7’4 winspan plus I have heard he was touching the top of the backboards in his warmups check this to realize his speed and athleticism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2AlFrOj5Mc Clint Capela would be happy to be able to do this LOL I think 15ppg 18rpg 6apg 4 Blocks on championship team would be something what his mindset skills atheticism and instincts would translate into today’s game with todays training and all the learning from game film of those 5decades

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  • #1031376
    Avatar
    lalaila
    Participant

    to someone who said Russell coudnt play because he was 6’9 215 he actually was around 6’10 240 pretty muscular that means with todays supplements he could easily get even into 250’s and his height with shoes would be 6’11 plus 7’4 winspan plus I have heard he was touching the top of the backboards in his warmups check this to realize his speed and athleticism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2AlFrOj5Mc Clint Capela would be happy to be able to do this LOL I think 15ppg 18rpg 6apg 4 Blocks on championship team would be something what his mindset skills atheticism and instincts would translate into today’s game with todays training and all the learning from game film of those 5decades

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    • #1031544
      Avatar
      Magic Jordan
      Participant

       Wait, he gets to study film for 5 decades?  Does he get to train for 5 decades too?  That might change my opinion.  

       

       

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    • #1031411
      Avatar
      Magic Jordan
      Participant

       Wait, he gets to study film for 5 decades?  Does he get to train for 5 decades too?  That might change my opinion.  

       

       

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      • #1031425
        Avatar
        lalaila
        Participant

        Yes he could watch any NBA star like all the young guys do know.

        From whom he could learn post moves back then? Only Mikan only.

         

         

         

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      • #1031558
        Avatar
        lalaila
        Participant

        Yes he could watch any NBA star like all the young guys do know.

        From whom he could learn post moves back then? Only Mikan only.

         

         

         

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  • #1031524
    Avatar
    Dazzling Dunks and Basketball Bloopers
    Participant

     I truly believe that if you took 1960s wilt and put him into the NBA today he would be a slightly above average center and nothing more. While that might sound disrespectful, comparing the league today to that of tge 1960s is like comparing apples and oranges. Wilt never really developed his skill set that much because frankly he didn’t have to in that era. He could just rely on just being bigger and more athletic than everyone. If you notice, toward the end of his career, as the overall league started to catch up to him physically, his stats weren’t nearly as impressive as they were early in his career. When placed around athletes that were close to his peers, as he would be in today’s game, its hard for me to believe that he would have the overall skill level to be a dominant center. 

    Russell would be an undersized center or pf with very little offensive game. I could see him functioning in sort of a Ben Wallace type of role or as an energy guy off the bench. He would get mins do to his defensive instincts and hustle but he would be a serious offensive liability its hard for me to envision him being an elite player.

    With that being said, if Russell and wilt had been raised in today’s basketball culture, with access to advanced training methods and coaching from a young age, who knows how they would have developed. Players from their era didn’t even lift weights. This is exactly why I don’t even try to compare players that era to those that played today.

     

     

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  • #1031391
    Avatar
    Dazzling Dunks and Basketball Bloopers
    Participant

     I truly believe that if you took 1960s wilt and put him into the NBA today he would be a slightly above average center and nothing more. While that might sound disrespectful, comparing the league today to that of tge 1960s is like comparing apples and oranges. Wilt never really developed his skill set that much because frankly he didn’t have to in that era. He could just rely on just being bigger and more athletic than everyone. If you notice, toward the end of his career, as the overall league started to catch up to him physically, his stats weren’t nearly as impressive as they were early in his career. When placed around athletes that were close to his peers, as he would be in today’s game, its hard for me to believe that he would have the overall skill level to be a dominant center. 

    Russell would be an undersized center or pf with very little offensive game. I could see him functioning in sort of a Ben Wallace type of role or as an energy guy off the bench. He would get mins do to his defensive instincts and hustle but he would be a serious offensive liability its hard for me to envision him being an elite player.

    With that being said, if Russell and wilt had been raised in today’s basketball culture, with access to advanced training methods and coaching from a young age, who knows how they would have developed. Players from their era didn’t even lift weights. This is exactly why I don’t even try to compare players that era to those that played today.

     

     

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  • #1031447
    canadabasketballisrising
    canadabasketballisrising
    Participant

     who is t-rex now? I’m assuming he was banned, so he has a new name??

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  • #1031580
    canadabasketballisrising
    canadabasketballisrising
    Participant

     who is t-rex now? I’m assuming he was banned, so he has a new name??

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  • #1031451
    Avatar
    Hype Machine

    Given the internet age we live in, Wilt would have easily surpassed 20,000 women provided his time in LA wasnt railroaded by a Kardashian.

     

     

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  • #1031584
    Avatar
    Hype Machine

    Given the internet age we live in, Wilt would have easily surpassed 20,000 women provided his time in LA wasnt railroaded by a Kardashian.

     

     

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  • #1031457
    Avatar
    mcbailey
    Participant

    If they were young and just coming into the league, they would be just as great. If they were magically transported from their heydays to now, they’d probably be ejected from their first game immediately and be known throughout the league as dirty players.  

     

      

     

     

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  • #1031590
    Avatar
    mcbailey
    Participant

    If they were young and just coming into the league, they would be just as great. If they were magically transported from their heydays to now, they’d probably be ejected from their first game immediately and be known throughout the league as dirty players.  

     

      

     

     

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  • #1031467
    Avatar
    ExumInferno
    Participant

     Wilt might have it easier now, with the 3point shot around he would have shooters spacing the floor and maybe fewer extra defenders trying to help against him.  He would score a lot.

    Russell could lead the league now in rebounds and blocks.  A better version of Rodman, Ben Wallace, Anthony Davis at the defensive end of the court.  He probably wouldn’t score a lot, although when he played he didn’t have to as they had many scorers on the floor with him, so maybe he could lift his offense if he had to.

     

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  • #1031600
    Avatar
    ExumInferno
    Participant

     Wilt might have it easier now, with the 3point shot around he would have shooters spacing the floor and maybe fewer extra defenders trying to help against him.  He would score a lot.

    Russell could lead the league now in rebounds and blocks.  A better version of Rodman, Ben Wallace, Anthony Davis at the defensive end of the court.  He probably wouldn’t score a lot, although when he played he didn’t have to as they had many scorers on the floor with him, so maybe he could lift his offense if he had to.

     

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  • #1031471
    Avatar
    lalaila
    Participant

     another question for you guys?

    How do you rate players alltime ? Based on what standarts?

    On stats? (then Wilt is number 1)

    On winning? (then it’s Russell’s)

    or try to compare eras? (then for some of you they are not even great)

     

    It’s really hard to think what is the best way to compare all the all time great players

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • #1031604
    Avatar
    lalaila
    Participant

     another question for you guys?

    How do you rate players alltime ? Based on what standarts?

    On stats? (then Wilt is number 1)

    On winning? (then it’s Russell’s)

    or try to compare eras? (then for some of you they are not even great)

     

    It’s really hard to think what is the best way to compare all the all time great players

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • #1031485
    Avatar
    Magic Jordan
    Participant

     So basically the question should have been.  If you take two really tall guys from the early days of basketball, and completely wiped their brains and skill set of what they actually had you know, back when they played.  Would they be able to compete in todays game… assuming that all of their training was for today, and they were able to watch film and reap the benefits of technology like todays athletes would?

    Then yes.  

    Furthermore, I bet you could find any 6’9" guy… dedicate his life to basketball, and give him the treatment that current NBA players do and they would probably be able to play in the NBA.

    If the question is, can you take Bill Russell from his playing days… and plug him into the NBA today… how would he fair?  He would be a bench player.

    If you had all of the training, and tape and weights like you guys suggest to Bill Russell… well that isn’t exactly Bill Russell is it?  It’s some hybrid Bill Russell that you guys have created after the fact of knowing who Bill Russell is.

    If someone truly believes that you can take FORMER PLAYER Bill Russell, and plug him into todays game as anything other than another decently athletic 6’9" role player… then you guys are poorly mistaking.

    How would he score if he isn’t the most athletic and tallest person on the court?  Like he almost always was back then.

    His array of post moves?  His unstoppable mid range jumper?  His ability to spread the court?  Please.  You guys are kidding yourselves.  Whoever posted the video of Russell going coast to coast (impressive I’ll admit, but also completely ignores the different frame rate videos were captured in back then… but i’ll try not to get too techy here) should watch the video that follows that one in the playlist.  Of actual game footage.  Which shows how unimpressive Russells skills were (not his athleticism… but his actual basketball skills).  

    Most of your opinions come from not wanting to disrespect an all time great.  If you look at it without those goggles on you can’t say that his skill and athleticism was so far superior at that point in time that it would directly translate to today… because it wouldn’t.

    It’s not disrespectful to say that something old, isn’t as good or evolved as something new… no more than it is to say that a dead person is dead.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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    • #1031517
      Avatar
      mcbailey
      Participant

       You can keep screaming about evolution like Bill Russell was an underdeveloped caveman from ~the dark ages~ of sixty years ago all you want. We can disagree amicably without you making the same novel-sized point over and over again.

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      • #1031529
        Avatar
        Magic Jordan
        Participant

         Yes read your post again.  You can disagree amicably but I cant write novel size posts.  Sounds like fair grounds for a discussion.  

        If you don’t like my well thought out, intricate and detailed novels… Just don’t read them?

         

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      • #1031662
        Avatar
        Magic Jordan
        Participant

         Yes read your post again.  You can disagree amicably but I cant write novel size posts.  Sounds like fair grounds for a discussion.  

        If you don’t like my well thought out, intricate and detailed novels… Just don’t read them?

         

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    • #1031650
      Avatar
      mcbailey
      Participant

       You can keep screaming about evolution like Bill Russell was an underdeveloped caveman from ~the dark ages~ of sixty years ago all you want. We can disagree amicably without you making the same novel-sized point over and over again.

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    • #1031533
      Avatar
      ItsVictorOladipo
      Participant

      Furthermore, I bet you could find any 6’9" guy… dedicate his life to basketball, and give him the treatment that current NBA players do and they would probably be able to play in the NBA.

      ——————————————————————————————–


      You can’t seriously believe this…there are hundreds of college basketball players every year that are 6-9 or taller that never even get a sniff of the NBA


      This whole thread was a hypothetical, in your hypothetical situation Russell is apparently being transported by a time machine and immediately getting plugged into an NBA starting lineup. Obviously he wouldn’t make a difference, he probably wouldn’t even know the plays his team was running and would probably be disoriented from his time travel experience.

       

       

       

       

       

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    • #1031666
      Avatar
      ItsVictorOladipo
      Participant

      Furthermore, I bet you could find any 6’9" guy… dedicate his life to basketball, and give him the treatment that current NBA players do and they would probably be able to play in the NBA.

      ——————————————————————————————–


      You can’t seriously believe this…there are hundreds of college basketball players every year that are 6-9 or taller that never even get a sniff of the NBA


      This whole thread was a hypothetical, in your hypothetical situation Russell is apparently being transported by a time machine and immediately getting plugged into an NBA starting lineup. Obviously he wouldn’t make a difference, he probably wouldn’t even know the plays his team was running and would probably be disoriented from his time travel experience.

       

       

       

       

       

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    • #1031705
      Avatar
      daggers818
      Participant

       How do you expain someone like John Stockton to today’s player?  If you picked him out of a lineup, he might be thought of as the accountant.  Clearly his abilities are not so related to the advanced human species you are making us all laugh about.  Oh wait…he’s just a great ball player who knows how to shoot, pass, dribble, defend, and play smart and hard.  By your argument, guys like Terrence Ross, Tony Mitchell, and JR Smith should be light years ahead of poor old caveman Stockton who just could not hang in today’s game against the likes of Bismack Biyombo or someone like that with modern day athleticism.

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    • #1031571
      Avatar
      daggers818
      Participant

       How do you expain someone like John Stockton to today’s player?  If you picked him out of a lineup, he might be thought of as the accountant.  Clearly his abilities are not so related to the advanced human species you are making us all laugh about.  Oh wait…he’s just a great ball player who knows how to shoot, pass, dribble, defend, and play smart and hard.  By your argument, guys like Terrence Ross, Tony Mitchell, and JR Smith should be light years ahead of poor old caveman Stockton who just could not hang in today’s game against the likes of Bismack Biyombo or someone like that with modern day athleticism.

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      • #1031729
        Avatar
        Magic Jordan
        Participant

         Dude, every reply that I have given you, your following post has completely ignored what I have said… or you twist my words into somehow taking my comparison of a Kia, and making it a Ferrari?

        You are proving my point.  John Stockton has basketball skills!!!  That’s how you explain this dummy.

        Which brings me back to what SKILLS did Bill Russell have?  How would his game translate into anything other than a hustle big man in todays game?  When his obvious athleticism and usually routine height advantage are nullified but everybody else being just as big and just as fast as him.  

        You just made my point.  He had no skills that would make him stand out today.  His athleticsm would be average, his height would be below average.  This is my point.  

        If you can’t see that someone who played and dominated in the 50’s wouldn’t be able to do so today then I can’t help you.

        Obviously if you are talking about bringing him up with todays training and technology then it is obviously a different story.  A stupid one, considering the same could be said for pretty much any NBA player at any time… but yeah that would be a different story.

        You guys are fucking high.

         

         

         

         

         

         

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      • #1031595
        Avatar
        Magic Jordan
        Participant

         Dude, every reply that I have given you, your following post has completely ignored what I have said… or you twist my words into somehow taking my comparison of a Kia, and making it a Ferrari?

        You are proving my point.  John Stockton has basketball skills!!!  That’s how you explain this dummy.

        Which brings me back to what SKILLS did Bill Russell have?  How would his game translate into anything other than a hustle big man in todays game?  When his obvious athleticism and usually routine height advantage are nullified but everybody else being just as big and just as fast as him.  

        You just made my point.  He had no skills that would make him stand out today.  His athleticsm would be average, his height would be below average.  This is my point.  

        If you can’t see that someone who played and dominated in the 50’s wouldn’t be able to do so today then I can’t help you.

        Obviously if you are talking about bringing him up with todays training and technology then it is obviously a different story.  A stupid one, considering the same could be said for pretty much any NBA player at any time… but yeah that would be a different story.

        You guys are fucking high.

         

         

         

         

         

         

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        • #1031981
          Avatar
          daggers818
          Participant

          In all my replies I refrained from attacking you personally.  I fact in one reply, I signed off "respectfully".  Now you are showing your weakeness by calling me a dummy and a druggie.

          Simple question, could Michael Jordan of the 1980’s be elite today?  If you say yes, then his pro career started about a decade later than Wilt’s ended.  Using the same logic, why wouldn’t Wilt have been successful in Jordan’s day then?  Or today?  If no, then I seriously question your basketball mind although I won’t call you a dummy, druggie, dumbazz, imbecile, or any other derogatory term you care to write.

           

           

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        • #1031846
          Avatar
          daggers818
          Participant

          In all my replies I refrained from attacking you personally.  I fact in one reply, I signed off "respectfully".  Now you are showing your weakeness by calling me a dummy and a druggie.

          Simple question, could Michael Jordan of the 1980’s be elite today?  If you say yes, then his pro career started about a decade later than Wilt’s ended.  Using the same logic, why wouldn’t Wilt have been successful in Jordan’s day then?  Or today?  If no, then I seriously question your basketball mind although I won’t call you a dummy, druggie, dumbazz, imbecile, or any other derogatory term you care to write.

           

           

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    • #1031722
      Avatar
      rope
      Participant

       If I could neg you more than once on this, I would.  You simply have no idea what you are talking about.

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    • #1031857
      Avatar
      rope
      Participant

       If I could neg you more than once on this, I would.  You simply have no idea what you are talking about.

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  • #1031618
    Avatar
    Magic Jordan
    Participant

     So basically the question should have been.  If you take two really tall guys from the early days of basketball, and completely wiped their brains and skill set of what they actually had you know, back when they played.  Would they be able to compete in todays game… assuming that all of their training was for today, and they were able to watch film and reap the benefits of technology like todays athletes would?

    Then yes.  

    Furthermore, I bet you could find any 6’9" guy… dedicate his life to basketball, and give him the treatment that current NBA players do and they would probably be able to play in the NBA.

    If the question is, can you take Bill Russell from his playing days… and plug him into the NBA today… how would he fair?  He would be a bench player.

    If you had all of the training, and tape and weights like you guys suggest to Bill Russell… well that isn’t exactly Bill Russell is it?  It’s some hybrid Bill Russell that you guys have created after the fact of knowing who Bill Russell is.

    If someone truly believes that you can take FORMER PLAYER Bill Russell, and plug him into todays game as anything other than another decently athletic 6’9" role player… then you guys are poorly mistaking.

    How would he score if he isn’t the most athletic and tallest person on the court?  Like he almost always was back then.

    His array of post moves?  His unstoppable mid range jumper?  His ability to spread the court?  Please.  You guys are kidding yourselves.  Whoever posted the video of Russell going coast to coast (impressive I’ll admit, but also completely ignores the different frame rate videos were captured in back then… but i’ll try not to get too techy here) should watch the video that follows that one in the playlist.  Of actual game footage.  Which shows how unimpressive Russells skills were (not his athleticism… but his actual basketball skills).  

    Most of your opinions come from not wanting to disrespect an all time great.  If you look at it without those goggles on you can’t say that his skill and athleticism was so far superior at that point in time that it would directly translate to today… because it wouldn’t.

    It’s not disrespectful to say that something old, isn’t as good or evolved as something new… no more than it is to say that a dead person is dead.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • #1031487
    Avatar
    daggers818
    Participant

     Great question.  I believe one can really only say what they did during the era they competed in.  I then look to judge their accomplishemnts in terms of winning rings, being recognized as one of the best in your era through all-pro teams, all-star games, statistics, etc.  Those become metrics you could judge objectively over time.  I’ve been compiling an ongoing list for 20 years now and try to be "objective" in my formula.  My personal favorite player of all time is Magic, I’m not much of a Kobe fan, so at least you can see that it’s unbiased.  Here’s the top 12.  It’s not a bad list the way to comes out.  Fans will always argue their favs and should, its fun!

    Jordan

    Abdul-Jabbar

    Russell

    Chamberlain

    Duncan

    Bryant

    Johnson

    James (will continue to climb)

    Bird

    O’neal

    Erving

    Olajuwon

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  • #1031620
    Avatar
    daggers818
    Participant

     Great question.  I believe one can really only say what they did during the era they competed in.  I then look to judge their accomplishemnts in terms of winning rings, being recognized as one of the best in your era through all-pro teams, all-star games, statistics, etc.  Those become metrics you could judge objectively over time.  I’ve been compiling an ongoing list for 20 years now and try to be "objective" in my formula.  My personal favorite player of all time is Magic, I’m not much of a Kobe fan, so at least you can see that it’s unbiased.  Here’s the top 12.  It’s not a bad list the way to comes out.  Fans will always argue their favs and should, its fun!

    Jordan

    Abdul-Jabbar

    Russell

    Chamberlain

    Duncan

    Bryant

    Johnson

    James (will continue to climb)

    Bird

    O’neal

    Erving

    Olajuwon

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  • #1031503
    Avatar
    I am an idiot
    Participant

    These questions are ridiculous. There isn’t a single sport where athletes could be instantly transported from the ’60’s and could compete (excepting maybe baseball, and even then I am not sure).  

    Every ’60’s  Olympic record has been broken, the average NFL lineman weighed about 250lbs and NHL players looked like they were skating through jello. The entire question of whether they could be instantly contend is absurd.

    These guys partied every night and made a fraction of what todays players make. The average NFL player had to work full-time in the summer to make ends meet. No one had ever seen a weight room, had a fitness coach, studied game tape or had any sort of advance statistical analysis. They would be totally lost today.

    Since we are then comparing apples and oranges, why bother? I like apples, you like oranges and we can never agree on anything.

    Please, can we stop the insanity? I can’t believe I ever bothered to read eveyone’s replies.

     

       

     

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  • #1031636
    Avatar
    I am an idiot
    Participant

    These questions are ridiculous. There isn’t a single sport where athletes could be instantly transported from the ’60’s and could compete (excepting maybe baseball, and even then I am not sure).  

    Every ’60’s  Olympic record has been broken, the average NFL lineman weighed about 250lbs and NHL players looked like they were skating through jello. The entire question of whether they could be instantly contend is absurd.

    These guys partied every night and made a fraction of what todays players make. The average NFL player had to work full-time in the summer to make ends meet. No one had ever seen a weight room, had a fitness coach, studied game tape or had any sort of advance statistical analysis. They would be totally lost today.

    Since we are then comparing apples and oranges, why bother? I like apples, you like oranges and we can never agree on anything.

    Please, can we stop the insanity? I can’t believe I ever bothered to read eveyone’s replies.

     

       

     

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  • #1031525
    Avatar
    Mopgrass
    Participant

     Today they’d dominate the 70 and over league. 

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  • #1031658
    Avatar
    Mopgrass
    Participant

     Today they’d dominate the 70 and over league. 

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  • #1031537
    Avatar
    Hype Machine

    Magic Jordan’s credibility is really taking a pounding in this thread.

    I see a name change coming up…but it won’t be Bill Chamberlain.

    Perhaps Mugsy Bol?

     

     

     

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    • #1031725
      Avatar
      Magic Jordan
      Participant

       No, my names don’t get banned like yours.  And I don’t chase pluses and minuses… I could give two shits about those.  But you have just confirmed my belief that you are indeed T-Rex.  I have thought this account was also you but I have held off.  I am 90% sure this is just another account.

      You are a sociopath.

       

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    • #1031591
      Avatar
      Magic Jordan
      Participant

       No, my names don’t get banned like yours.  And I don’t chase pluses and minuses… I could give two shits about those.  But you have just confirmed my belief that you are indeed T-Rex.  I have thought this account was also you but I have held off.  I am 90% sure this is just another account.

      You are a sociopath.

       

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  • #1031670
    Avatar
    Hype Machine

    Magic Jordan’s credibility is really taking a pounding in this thread.

    I see a name change coming up…but it won’t be Bill Chamberlain.

    Perhaps Mugsy Bol?

     

     

     

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  • #1031699
    Avatar
    barbabodom
    Participant

     IMO Wilt would put prime-Shaq numbers (30/14/3/3). Russel is tougher. I believe he would be a player like Marc Gasol, who is way more valuable than his numbers show. Although I think his floor would be prime Joakim Noah.

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  • #1031565
    Avatar
    barbabodom
    Participant

     IMO Wilt would put prime-Shaq numbers (30/14/3/3). Russel is tougher. I believe he would be a player like Marc Gasol, who is way more valuable than his numbers show. Although I think his floor would be prime Joakim Noah.

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  • #1031731
    Avatar
    Memphis Madness
    Participant

     So Russell and Wilt couldn’t compete with Drummond and Whiteside (who are the 2 best centers right now), or Cousins or Marc Gasol?  Wilt would run Gasol off the court, and then block his 18 foot standstill set shots into the 3rd row.

    Wilt and Russell would be on the all-time short list of guys who COULD actually guard a guy like Cousins or Whiteside one night, LaMarcus Aldridge (or Duncan) the next night, then a long, skinny, talented freak like Porzingas the next night…

    Wilt and Russell would be GREAT for rebounding purposes and then the quick move inside to score.  BUT, they would have HUGE value on defense.  

     

     

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  • #1031597
    Avatar
    Memphis Madness
    Participant

     So Russell and Wilt couldn’t compete with Drummond and Whiteside (who are the 2 best centers right now), or Cousins or Marc Gasol?  Wilt would run Gasol off the court, and then block his 18 foot standstill set shots into the 3rd row.

    Wilt and Russell would be on the all-time short list of guys who COULD actually guard a guy like Cousins or Whiteside one night, LaMarcus Aldridge (or Duncan) the next night, then a long, skinny, talented freak like Porzingas the next night…

    Wilt and Russell would be GREAT for rebounding purposes and then the quick move inside to score.  BUT, they would have HUGE value on defense.  

     

     

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  • #1031755
    Avatar
    whiteflash
    Participant

     Both of those dude’s were a product of their era. Chamberlain was a 7’1+ 300lb monster who physically bullied 6’7", 190lb centers with no 3 seconds and no shot clock.  Russell was a 6’9" bean pole who couldn’t shoot, dribble, pass, hit ft’s…. Literally all he could do is block and board. I know Wilt competed in the high jump, but he was not athletic compared to players of the last 30 years. What they meant to the game is immeasurable, but neither of those dude’s could play today. The game’s evolved too far. Also want to point out that Chamberlain was a pathological liar. Guy wouldn’t stop lying to save his life. Have an old book where Nate Thurmond talks about NEVER hearing Wilt tell the truth, but he got a pass ’cause he was Wilt.

     

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  • #1031621
    Avatar
    whiteflash
    Participant

     Both of those dude’s were a product of their era. Chamberlain was a 7’1+ 300lb monster who physically bullied 6’7", 190lb centers with no 3 seconds and no shot clock.  Russell was a 6’9" bean pole who couldn’t shoot, dribble, pass, hit ft’s…. Literally all he could do is block and board. I know Wilt competed in the high jump, but he was not athletic compared to players of the last 30 years. What they meant to the game is immeasurable, but neither of those dude’s could play today. The game’s evolved too far. Also want to point out that Chamberlain was a pathological liar. Guy wouldn’t stop lying to save his life. Have an old book where Nate Thurmond talks about NEVER hearing Wilt tell the truth, but he got a pass ’cause he was Wilt.

     

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  • #1031706
    Avatar
    rope
    Participant

     Both of them would be All Stars, MVP candidates and lead winning teams.  If you think anything other than that you really haven’t looked it much.  The biggest question is Russell.  First, he grew up in extreme poverty.  There is every chance he would have grown more if he had a more modern and healthy diet.  Aside from that, the dude could flat out dominate on defense and the boards.  He was one of the most intelligent players ever.  Small ball would help, but he could absolutely hold his own today and more.

    Wilt is simply the best big man athlete ever.  Period.  He might not score 50. Pace of play had as much to do with that as the competition.  But he would be a way better version of Shaq.  There is no doubt he would still be one of the best players in the league and inevitably the top player at his peak.

    Even a guy like Jerry West would be a stud.  Can you imagine his numbers with a 3 point line?

    The best players from each era could make it today.  They had the work ethic and the mentality then to be great.  They would take advantage of all the resources available now and still be at the top of the game.

    What you would not see is 11 straight from any team.  Bostonb benefited a great deal from the rules of the day, especially player acquisition.  With a salary cap and free agency, it would be hard to pay everyone and keep a team together.  Go back and look how many Hall of Famers played with Russell.  That is never going to happen again in this era.

    But back to the original question.  Yes, these guys would play, probably dominate individually and win like crazy.  It’s not even a question in my mind.

     

     

     

     

     

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  • #1031841
    Avatar
    rope
    Participant

     Both of them would be All Stars, MVP candidates and lead winning teams.  If you think anything other than that you really haven’t looked it much.  The biggest question is Russell.  First, he grew up in extreme poverty.  There is every chance he would have grown more if he had a more modern and healthy diet.  Aside from that, the dude could flat out dominate on defense and the boards.  He was one of the most intelligent players ever.  Small ball would help, but he could absolutely hold his own today and more.

    Wilt is simply the best big man athlete ever.  Period.  He might not score 50. Pace of play had as much to do with that as the competition.  But he would be a way better version of Shaq.  There is no doubt he would still be one of the best players in the league and inevitably the top player at his peak.

    Even a guy like Jerry West would be a stud.  Can you imagine his numbers with a 3 point line?

    The best players from each era could make it today.  They had the work ethic and the mentality then to be great.  They would take advantage of all the resources available now and still be at the top of the game.

    What you would not see is 11 straight from any team.  Bostonb benefited a great deal from the rules of the day, especially player acquisition.  With a salary cap and free agency, it would be hard to pay everyone and keep a team together.  Go back and look how many Hall of Famers played with Russell.  That is never going to happen again in this era.

    But back to the original question.  Yes, these guys would play, probably dominate individually and win like crazy.  It’s not even a question in my mind.

     

     

     

     

     

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