[surveParticipant]

Running off the thread about players who’s careers were cut short….I want to ask the question, some of these players never had their potential realized.  I want HOW good you think some of these guys were.

I will start with Ralph Sampson (I know the old man jokes are coming)

Ralph Sampson was a truly special player.  He was 7’4" but he had the burning desire to play guard in the league and didnt think it was too far fetched for him to get some spot minutes at the point.  For those who remember, while with the Rockets, Sampson would bring the ball up court every now and then, flashing some fancy between the legs dribbling moves, head always up and looking.  I remember at the time watching him…and I watched him his entire 4 years at Virginia…he was heavily criticized while he played for the Rockets as not wanting to be an interior player.  I dont think he didnt want to play inside, it was just that he wanted to showcase that he could do many other things.  Sampson couldve played SF though, I know that.  He was extremely athletic, could score inside and out and could handle.  This was a time before the Chris Webbers and Shawn Kemps came along, where big men had more freedom to handle the ball in open court.  Sampson couldve been an absolute great, but as I stated, many thought his focus on being an all around player took away from his dominant inside ability.  He would often describe himself as a guard trapped in a center’s body.

[surveParticipant]

Although Maryland was one of my favorite teams to watch at the time and I loved Lenny Bias, I was a bigger Adrian Branch fan.  I was just partial to 6’8" guards who could handle and shoot the 20 footer at the time.  I viewed Len as one-dimensional.  The thing about it was, that one dimension was incredible.  He was an elite athlete.  I thought he may have been a bigger version of David Thompson.  His athleticism was kind of McGrady-ish….but he was a mid range player.   I didnt think he had very many wrinkles to his game and I thought Ron Harper was a better prospect but lesser known.  One thing was for sure, that draft featured some of the most elite athletes to be drafted up until that point.  Bias, Kenny Walker, Ron Harper, etc.   I didnt know much about what scouts truly coveted at that time as I was a kid…but it was obvious,  why they were so  high on Bias’ scoring and rebounding ability.  On the college level he was a man among boys and scouts could only imagine what he could do when not faced with zone defenses.  I think had he lived he wouldve been a dominant 20 plus ppg scorer and shouldve been a good defender.  I cant say I thought he wouldve been all-world because I just never viewed him as that, but a very good player nevertheless.

[surveParticipant]

Although Maryland was one of my favorite teams to watch at the time and I loved Lenny Bias, I was a bigger Adrian Branch fan.  I was just partial to 6’8" guards who could handle and shoot the 20 footer at the time.  I viewed Len as one-dimensional.  The thing about it was, that one dimension was incredible.  He was an elite athlete.  I thought he may have been a bigger version of David Thompson.  His athleticism was kind of McGrady-ish….but he was a mid range player.   I didnt think he had very many wrinkles to his game and I thought Ron Harper was a better prospect but lesser known.  One thing was for sure, that draft featured some of the most elite athletes to be drafted up until that point.  Bias, Kenny Walker, Ron Harper, etc.   I didnt know much about what scouts truly coveted at that time as I was a kid…but it was obvious,  why they were so  high on Bias’ scoring and rebounding ability.  On the college level he was a man among boys and scouts could only imagine what he could do when not faced with zone defenses.  I think had he lived he wouldve been a dominant 20 plus ppg scorer and shouldve been a good defender.  I cant say I thought he wouldve been all-world because I just never viewed him as that, but a very good player nevertheless.

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

Michael Ray Richardson. I think he could have been one of the greatest point guards ever if substance abuse didn’t ruin his career.

15.3 PPG, 6.6 RPG, a league leading 10.1 APG and a league leading 3.2 SPG in his second year in the league in 1980. 20.1 PPG, 8.2 APG, 5.6 RPG and 3 SPG in 1985. He was incredible; a 6-5 guard, who was probably the second greatest defensive PG I have ever seen (behind the glove), a terric rebounder, a devastating scorer and a very good passer as well. Think of a more athletic Jason Kidd with better scoring ability

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

Michael Ray Richardson. I think he could have been one of the greatest point guards ever if substance abuse didn’t ruin his career.

15.3 PPG, 6.6 RPG, a league leading 10.1 APG and a league leading 3.2 SPG in his second year in the league in 1980. 20.1 PPG, 8.2 APG, 5.6 RPG and 3 SPG in 1985. He was incredible; a 6-5 guard, who was probably the second greatest defensive PG I have ever seen (behind the glove), a terric rebounder, a devastating scorer and a very good passer as well. Think of a more athletic Jason Kidd with better scoring ability

[ChrispyParticipant]

Sampson was an elite player. Big, long, and with a nice J. He could pass, play D and move incredibly well. I still think the substance issues killed it for him. So many of the big timers from the 80’s were into that sh!t. He SHOULD have been a 22-26ppg and 12rpg guy for the better part of a decade. AS for Bias, I still think he would have been a special, special player. So big, so fast, so strong and he had nicely developing distance/perimeter game. While we are at it, how about Pistol Pete? He had only a 10 year career, albeit with some nice stats, but was also a raging alcoholic and had injuries. Surve, whatcha think?

[ChrispyParticipant]

Sampson was an elite player. Big, long, and with a nice J. He could pass, play D and move incredibly well. I still think the substance issues killed it for him. So many of the big timers from the 80’s were into that sh!t. He SHOULD have been a 22-26ppg and 12rpg guy for the better part of a decade. AS for Bias, I still think he would have been a special, special player. So big, so fast, so strong and he had nicely developing distance/perimeter game. While we are at it, how about Pistol Pete? He had only a 10 year career, albeit with some nice stats, but was also a raging alcoholic and had injuries. Surve, whatcha think?

[surveParticipant]

I didnt see any of Pete except for tapes but I asked my brothers, they saw him when they were coming up.  They said he was an all-time great but he was not a team player.  He was primarily a showman and a stat machine.  From what my brothers say, he was kind of like Iverson in the regards that he was a big time scorer first and not your more conventional PG like Isiah/CP3.  Had he played longer and won some championships he was likely a top 20 player of all time from what they say.  He wouldve scored a lot more had the 3-point shot been in when he first got to the league.

[surveParticipant]

I didnt see any of Pete except for tapes but I asked my brothers, they saw him when they were coming up.  They said he was an all-time great but he was not a team player.  He was primarily a showman and a stat machine.  From what my brothers say, he was kind of like Iverson in the regards that he was a big time scorer first and not your more conventional PG like Isiah/CP3.  Had he played longer and won some championships he was likely a top 20 player of all time from what they say.  He wouldve scored a lot more had the 3-point shot been in when he first got to the league.

[ChrispyParticipant]

43 a game in college w/ no 3 pt line and 25+ multiple times in the NBA are no joke. Self destructive behavior and me-first showman attitude shortened an otherwise legendary career.

[ChrispyParticipant]

43 a game in college w/ no 3 pt line and 25+ multiple times in the NBA are no joke. Self destructive behavior and me-first showman attitude shortened an otherwise legendary career.

[GottaFeedTheFamParticipant]

David Thompson was a moster in the league before massive amounts of booger sugar ruined his career in his prime and eventually lead to him being out of the league at 30 years old. He could jump and throw down with th best of all time and was the guy MJ most patterned his game after.

1975-76 – 26ppg 6.3rpg 3.6apg 1.6spg 1.2bpg   He was age 21

1976-77 – 25.9ppg 4.1rpg 4.1apg 1.4spg .6bpg   He was age 22

1977-78 – 27.2ppg 4.9rpg 4.5apg 1.2spg 1.2bpg   He was age 23

1978-79 – 24ppg 3.6rpg 3apg 1.1spg .9bpg   He was age 24

1979-80 – 21.5ppg 4.5rpg 3.2apg 1spg 1bpg   He was age 25

1980-81 – 25.5ppg 3.7rpg 3apg .7spg .8bpg   He was age 26

1981-82 through the 1983-84 season he averaged 14.5ppg 2.8rpg 1.9apg .6spg .5bpg   he was age 27-29

In what should have been his athletic prime his game declined to all time lows, its a sad story because this guy was great.

Bill Walton is another guy that could have been an all time great but foot problems ruined his career. He was an excellent rebounder, shotblocker, post defender, one of the best passing big men ever, had one of the highest basketball iqs ever, and had an advanced post and mid range game that people had to respect because he would score on you. Poor decisions by doctors and him attempting to come back to early from his foot injury killed his careerand he was never the same player after the 1979-1980 season.

[GottaFeedTheFamParticipant]

David Thompson was a moster in the league before massive amounts of booger sugar ruined his career in his prime and eventually lead to him being out of the league at 30 years old. He could jump and throw down with th best of all time and was the guy MJ most patterned his game after.

1975-76 – 26ppg 6.3rpg 3.6apg 1.6spg 1.2bpg   He was age 21

1976-77 – 25.9ppg 4.1rpg 4.1apg 1.4spg .6bpg   He was age 22

1977-78 – 27.2ppg 4.9rpg 4.5apg 1.2spg 1.2bpg   He was age 23

1978-79 – 24ppg 3.6rpg 3apg 1.1spg .9bpg   He was age 24

1979-80 – 21.5ppg 4.5rpg 3.2apg 1spg 1bpg   He was age 25

1980-81 – 25.5ppg 3.7rpg 3apg .7spg .8bpg   He was age 26

1981-82 through the 1983-84 season he averaged 14.5ppg 2.8rpg 1.9apg .6spg .5bpg   he was age 27-29

In what should have been his athletic prime his game declined to all time lows, its a sad story because this guy was great.

Bill Walton is another guy that could have been an all time great but foot problems ruined his career. He was an excellent rebounder, shotblocker, post defender, one of the best passing big men ever, had one of the highest basketball iqs ever, and had an advanced post and mid range game that people had to respect because he would score on you. Poor decisions by doctors and him attempting to come back to early from his foot injury killed his careerand he was never the same player after the 1979-1980 season.

[surveParticipant]

man, I didnt get to see Michael Ray, all I could do was read about him in the sports mags, because when I was growing up I didnt have cable or nothin, so it was only a handful of teams that I got to see play.  By the time I started seeing a lot of Knicks games, B-King was just busting out and Michael Ray was gettin banned from the league.  We didnt have a team in NC when I was growing up so I mostly saw the most popular teams at the time….Celts, Lakers, San Antonio, Bucks, etc…which brings to mind how good Moncrief was and couldve been had he not been injured.  He was heading to be an all time great no doubt because he was an all around player back then, tremendous defender with scoring ability.

[surveParticipant]

man, I didnt get to see Michael Ray, all I could do was read about him in the sports mags, because when I was growing up I didnt have cable or nothin, so it was only a handful of teams that I got to see play.  By the time I started seeing a lot of Knicks games, B-King was just busting out and Michael Ray was gettin banned from the league.  We didnt have a team in NC when I was growing up so I mostly saw the most popular teams at the time….Celts, Lakers, San Antonio, Bucks, etc…which brings to mind how good Moncrief was and couldve been had he not been injured.  He was heading to be an all time great no doubt because he was an all around player back then, tremendous defender with scoring ability.

[surveParticipant]

I think I remember at the time it was Michael Ray Richardson and Ray Williams in the backcourt.  I used to want to watch the Nets play sooooo bad but they broadcasted more Knicks games nationally and very rarely showed the Nets.

[surveParticipant]

I think I remember at the time it was Michael Ray Richardson and Ray Williams in the backcourt.  I used to want to watch the Nets play sooooo bad but they broadcasted more Knicks games nationally and very rarely showed the Nets.

[iguapops420Participant]

 I’d have liked to see more Michael Ray as well(other than tape). From what I understand, evryone expectd him to be the Big-O part 2. Again. Abuse.

Sampson ALWAYS caught my eye in highlights. SO big and athletic compared to most guys that tall even NOWADAYS where elite level athletes are a dime a dozen. I only saw one big man with that kind of height and that kind of athleticism, and he happens to be my favorite Euro of all time Arvydas Sabonis.

[iguapops420Participant]

 I’d have liked to see more Michael Ray as well(other than tape). From what I understand, evryone expectd him to be the Big-O part 2. Again. Abuse.

Sampson ALWAYS caught my eye in highlights. SO big and athletic compared to most guys that tall even NOWADAYS where elite level athletes are a dime a dozen. I only saw one big man with that kind of height and that kind of athleticism, and he happens to be my favorite Euro of all time Arvydas Sabonis.

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

 Bill Walton

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

 Bill Walton

[kdtriv01Participant]

We are talking about the man drafted before M.J.  When he was healthy he was a beast

[kdtriv01Participant]

We are talking about the man drafted before M.J.  When he was healthy he was a beast

[surveParticipant]

Sam Bowie was a guy that it was nearly impossible NOT to feel sorry for in some way.  For those who dont remember Bowie, just think of what Greg Oden is going through today…incidentally drafted by the same team…its almost mirror image. The injuries, the comparison to a player that went after him in the draft to become a superstar (Jordan/Durant).  Peep this:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Catching-up-with-Sam-Bowie-draft-bust-turned-ra?urn=ncaab-250269

[surveParticipant]

Sam Bowie was a guy that it was nearly impossible NOT to feel sorry for in some way.  For those who dont remember Bowie, just think of what Greg Oden is going through today…incidentally drafted by the same team…its almost mirror image. The injuries, the comparison to a player that went after him in the draft to become a superstar (Jordan/Durant).  Peep this:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Catching-up-with-Sam-Bowie-draft-bust-turned-ra?urn=ncaab-250269

[JoeWolf1]

 Danny Manning

The #1 pick in the 88 draft was an All-Star at age 26 while averaging 22.8 pt 6.6 rb 1.4 stls 1.3 blocks and shooting over 50% from fg and 80% from the FT. He ruined his knees and despite that used his great skill and Bball IQ to carve out a nice 2nd wind as a bench scorer, including a 6th man of the year award, but his potential far exceeded what his over all resume shows, and that is due to injuries. 

[JoeWolf1]

 Danny Manning

The #1 pick in the 88 draft was an All-Star at age 26 while averaging 22.8 pt 6.6 rb 1.4 stls 1.3 blocks and shooting over 50% from fg and 80% from the FT. He ruined his knees and despite that used his great skill and Bball IQ to carve out a nice 2nd wind as a bench scorer, including a 6th man of the year award, but his potential far exceeded what his over all resume shows, and that is due to injuries. 

[surveParticipant]

Yep, Manning was another great talent who’s career was limited by injuries.  He could handle and pass and had a sweet jump-hook.  He was another Magic comparison, which should indicate that he had to be highly skilled.  Still SMH at that Dominique trade though.

[surveParticipant]

Yep, Manning was another great talent who’s career was limited by injuries.  He could handle and pass and had a sweet jump-hook.  He was another Magic comparison, which should indicate that he had to be highly skilled.  Still SMH at that Dominique trade though.

[HitsterParticipant]

Jay Williams is another one who effectively had his NBA career ended after one season and was seen by many as the guy to finally lead Chicago back to the play offs having been a huge success at Duke leading them to a National title. He was apparently seriously considered by Houston for the top pick in 2002 against Yao but sadly his motorcycle injury meant he never really played NBA basketball again.

[HitsterParticipant]

Jay Williams is another one who effectively had his NBA career ended after one season and was seen by many as the guy to finally lead Chicago back to the play offs having been a huge success at Duke leading them to a National title. He was apparently seriously considered by Houston for the top pick in 2002 against Yao but sadly his motorcycle injury meant he never really played NBA basketball again.

[iguapops420Participant]

 I know I’m one of the few on here to make this comment and will surely garner negatives for it, but I didn’t really think Jay looked too special with Chitown. Seemed fairly average honestly. College he was terrific, but I’m personally not sold that he woud have been some NBA superstar.

[iguapops420Participant]

 I know I’m one of the few on here to make this comment and will surely garner negatives for it, but I didn’t really think Jay looked too special with Chitown. Seemed fairly average honestly. College he was terrific, but I’m personally not sold that he woud have been some NBA superstar.

[HitsterParticipant]

Jay was inconsistent during his one year at Chicago but we will never know if he could have translated his college game to the NBA like subsequent PG’s have done to great success in more recent years.

[HitsterParticipant]

Jay was inconsistent during his one year at Chicago but we will never know if he could have translated his college game to the NBA like subsequent PG’s have done to great success in more recent years.

[GottaFeedTheFamParticipant]

Jay was a special player in college, however I think his NBA potential was never going to match his production in college. He was an undersized 2 guard playing pg in the league, he was a leader but running a team didnt come naturally to him, his scorers mentality was to overpowering. If you guys remember correctly Chicago was having Jay run the point, but he was playing pretty poorly, so they benched him and made him their 6th man and backup sg, he started playing a lot better and eventually they put him back into the starting lineup as a sg and he finished the season averaging like 15ppg. Essentially he was going to be a 6’2” sg who tried hard on defense but was going to be abused by people at times because of his size. I think he had 18-20ppg potential and he was a very hard worker so I believe he would have improved his shooting and become a valueable weapon, but he was never star or superstar material.

[GottaFeedTheFamParticipant]

Jay was a special player in college, however I think his NBA potential was never going to match his production in college. He was an undersized 2 guard playing pg in the league, he was a leader but running a team didnt come naturally to him, his scorers mentality was to overpowering. If you guys remember correctly Chicago was having Jay run the point, but he was playing pretty poorly, so they benched him and made him their 6th man and backup sg, he started playing a lot better and eventually they put him back into the starting lineup as a sg and he finished the season averaging like 15ppg. Essentially he was going to be a 6’2” sg who tried hard on defense but was going to be abused by people at times because of his size. I think he had 18-20ppg potential and he was a very hard worker so I believe he would have improved his shooting and become a valueable weapon, but he was never star or superstar material.

[iguapops420Participant]

 ^^^^To me, he was very Ben Gordon Esque in that sense.

[iguapops420Participant]

 ^^^^To me, he was very Ben Gordon Esque in that sense.

[GottaFeedTheFamParticipant]

Thats funny you mentioned Ben Gordon, when I was writing that post I was thinking the same thing. Their styles of play werent the same, but their NBA roles and careers would have mirrored each others closely.

[GottaFeedTheFamParticipant]

Thats funny you mentioned Ben Gordon, when I was writing that post I was thinking the same thing. Their styles of play werent the same, but their NBA roles and careers would have mirrored each others closely.

[iguapops420Participant]

 Yes, that is exactly what I was thinking. Games differ, but roles mirror.

[iguapops420Participant]

 Yes, that is exactly what I was thinking. Games differ, but roles mirror.

[surveParticipant]

He was a great player at Georgia, 6’7" PG.  Played on the Olympic Team with Mitch Richmond and David Robinson.  He was the 10th pick in the 1988 Draft.  He avg 18.6ppg and 4.6apg as a rookie.  Had stress fractures in both legs and had them operated on at the same time.  Numbers and games played declined nearly every year.

[surveParticipant]

He was a great player at Georgia, 6’7" PG.  Played on the Olympic Team with Mitch Richmond and David Robinson.  He was the 10th pick in the 1988 Draft.  He avg 18.6ppg and 4.6apg as a rookie.  Had stress fractures in both legs and had them operated on at the same time.  Numbers and games played declined nearly every year.

[Author]

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