[valentine]

can anyone name a nba team in history where they tanked the season got the number one pick and that pick led them to a title. most number one picks don’t led there team to a title. the last one that did is dunkin and that was 20 years ago.

[BiggaveliiiParticipant]

 olajuwon

[celticsthug]

don’t know about that not sure they tanked. but that’s what 30 years ago. so tanking works about once every 15 years. not a very sound strategy.

[celticsthug]

don’t know about that not sure they tanked. but that’s what 30 years ago. so tanking works about once every 15 years. not a very sound strategy.

[JoeWolf1]

They didn’t tank. They improved 15 games from the year prior when they drafted Ralph Sampson. They were really really bad, gained two #1 picks in consecutive years and turned it around. Hard to say they were tanking in a year in which they improved 15 games.

[JoeWolf1]

They didn’t tank. They improved 15 games from the year prior when they drafted Ralph Sampson. They were really really bad, gained two #1 picks in consecutive years and turned it around. Hard to say they were tanking in a year in which they improved 15 games.

[BiggaveliiiParticipant]

 olajuwon

[Arc12345Participant]

If you say it works every 15 years…and the last time it worked was with Duncan in 2000, and Hakeem in 1984…that would put them right on the timeline for tanking to work since it’s 2016…

Not a fan of the 76ers or tanking, I’m just saying LOL.

[celticsthug]

even then the spurs didn’t tank they just sucked that year because of injury they didn’t sell off the david robinson or sean Elliot because they were having a bad year. so dunkin came in with vets to lead and help. tanking is when u trade off all your decent players so you suck and have better lotto odds. and I have not seen that work yet.

[celticsthug]

even then the spurs didn’t tank they just sucked that year because of injury they didn’t sell off the david robinson or sean Elliot because they were having a bad year. so dunkin came in with vets to lead and help. tanking is when u trade off all your decent players so you suck and have better lotto odds. and I have not seen that work yet.

[Arc12345Participant]

If you say it works every 15 years…and the last time it worked was with Duncan in 2000, and Hakeem in 1984…that would put them right on the timeline for tanking to work since it’s 2016…

Not a fan of the 76ers or tanking, I’m just saying LOL.

[canadabasketballisrisingParticipant]

 Yes. Pitsburg.. Lemieux.. Oloujuwon.. many examples in sports

 

 

[celticsthug]

does hockey have a lottery. I don’t know nothing about hockey.

[celticsthug]

does hockey have a lottery. I don’t know nothing about hockey.

[canadabasketballisrisingParticipant]

 Yes. Pitsburg.. Lemieux.. Oloujuwon.. many examples in sports

 

 

[canadabasketballisrisingParticipant]

 in hockey it has for sure..

[canadabasketballisrisingParticipant]

 in hockey it has for sure..

[dazeoneParticipant]

The year they sat Robinson out and got Duncan…Nobody is talking about how the Lakers did it on the low this year and last year.

[dazeoneParticipant]

The year they sat Robinson out and got Duncan…Nobody is talking about how the Lakers did it on the low this year and last year.

[celticsthug]

robinson was hurt that year they didn’t just say hey dave have a seat for a year while we tank.

[celticsthug]

robinson was hurt that year they didn’t just say hey dave have a seat for a year while we tank.

[holefillers1Participant]

 Knicks did it two years in a row trying to free up cap space for the Lebron sweepstakes of 2010

[holefillers1Participant]

 Knicks did it two years in a row trying to free up cap space for the Lebron sweepstakes of 2010

[circumlocution75Participant]

 to keep an injured David Robinson out for the remainder of the year so they could take a shot at Tim Duncan……… Who was the consensus #1 pick coming out……… The Spurs won 20 games in 1997……. Putting them in the Bottom 4 & giving them a shot at the Grand Prize #1 pick……

The SIxers (20 wins)………  Your Celtics (15 wins)………. & The Grizzlies 14 wins ……. ALL these teams were Terrible & they got SCREWED b/c the Spurs Tanked ……… & WON the Tim Duncan Sweepstakes………

This occured Right in the middle of an 8 Season Slog for the Boston Celtics from 1994 to 2001…… Who finished Below .500 Each of those years…… Winning betwen 15 & 36 games in each of those years…… 

So yea Tanking Works & as a Boston fan you should remember that…….  Those Spurs – Already a 59 win team in 1996 & a 62 win team in 1995……… Landed Tim Duncan by Tanking & won their 1st Championship just 23 months later…….. & 4 more would follow……… the Spurs have Not won LESS than 50 games Since….. Almost 20 years of Winning…

 Vancouver, Phila or Boston – 3 teams Struggling Terribly……. Deserved to get Duncan…….. But b/c a Very strong Spurs team Tanked…… Those Franchises got Screwed…… I can name many more too…… No one likes Tanking…. The NBA could Fix it overnight by just doing what the NFL does – Worst Record gets First pick……….

But until then……. Unfortunately Yea Tanking does work……..

 

 

[circumlocution75Participant]

 to keep an injured David Robinson out for the remainder of the year so they could take a shot at Tim Duncan……… Who was the consensus #1 pick coming out……… The Spurs won 20 games in 1997……. Putting them in the Bottom 4 & giving them a shot at the Grand Prize #1 pick……

The SIxers (20 wins)………  Your Celtics (15 wins)………. & The Grizzlies 14 wins ……. ALL these teams were Terrible & they got SCREWED b/c the Spurs Tanked ……… & WON the Tim Duncan Sweepstakes………

This occured Right in the middle of an 8 Season Slog for the Boston Celtics from 1994 to 2001…… Who finished Below .500 Each of those years…… Winning betwen 15 & 36 games in each of those years…… 

So yea Tanking Works & as a Boston fan you should remember that…….  Those Spurs – Already a 59 win team in 1996 & a 62 win team in 1995……… Landed Tim Duncan by Tanking & won their 1st Championship just 23 months later…….. & 4 more would follow……… the Spurs have Not won LESS than 50 games Since….. Almost 20 years of Winning…

 Vancouver, Phila or Boston – 3 teams Struggling Terribly……. Deserved to get Duncan…….. But b/c a Very strong Spurs team Tanked…… Those Franchises got Screwed…… I can name many more too…… No one likes Tanking…. The NBA could Fix it overnight by just doing what the NFL does – Worst Record gets First pick……….

But until then……. Unfortunately Yea Tanking does work……..

 

 

[Hype Machine]

If worst record was guaranteed 1st pick, Philly would have been prepared to win 0 games.

 

 

[Hype Machine]

If worst record was guaranteed 1st pick, Philly would have been prepared to win 0 games.

 

 

[holefillers1Participant]

 I agree. Sixers would be first co-ed team in league history.

[holefillers1Participant]

 I agree. Sixers would be first co-ed team in league history.

[publius2481Participant]

 I would not call what the Spurs did tanking. They entered the year planning to win and injuries hurt them. They didn’t sell off assets to lose more games. Yes, the shut Robinson down, but they were not going to the playoffs with him back, so why risk his health. Keep in mind they needed some lottery luck too to pull this off. I know it is the example people point too, but I think it is a poor one and one case does not prove it is a good strategy anyway.

[publius2481Participant]

 I would not call what the Spurs did tanking. They entered the year planning to win and injuries hurt them. They didn’t sell off assets to lose more games. Yes, the shut Robinson down, but they were not going to the playoffs with him back, so why risk his health. Keep in mind they needed some lottery luck too to pull this off. I know it is the example people point too, but I think it is a poor one and one case does not prove it is a good strategy anyway.

[publius2481Participant]

Depending on how you define tanking, maybe. The problem is we need to agree on what is tanking. Some people are defining tanking as being bad, a definition I disagree with. I consider tanking to involve selling assets off below market to make sure you team loses.

Now the numbers seem to indicate it is actually a bad strategy. First, having one of the five worst records the previous year is a good predictor you will be one of the five worst teams this year. So if you tank, you will be bad for several years. Second, regardless of where you pick, most teams trend toward having a .500 record over the next five years (teams at the top of the league are exception, they tend to have a higher win total five years into the future). So long term it is not a better strategy, short term it is more painful.

 

[publius2481Participant]

Depending on how you define tanking, maybe. The problem is we need to agree on what is tanking. Some people are defining tanking as being bad, a definition I disagree with. I consider tanking to involve selling assets off below market to make sure you team loses.

Now the numbers seem to indicate it is actually a bad strategy. First, having one of the five worst records the previous year is a good predictor you will be one of the five worst teams this year. So if you tank, you will be bad for several years. Second, regardless of where you pick, most teams trend toward having a .500 record over the next five years (teams at the top of the league are exception, they tend to have a higher win total five years into the future). So long term it is not a better strategy, short term it is more painful.

 

[usfballerParticipant]

In order to keep their top 7 or 8 pick, the Warriors sat basically their whole starting 5 for most of the last month of the regular season.It allowed them to draft Harrison Barnes. I’d say it’s worked out well.

[usfballerParticipant]

In order to keep their top 7 or 8 pick, the Warriors sat basically their whole starting 5 for most of the last month of the regular season.It allowed them to draft Harrison Barnes. I’d say it’s worked out well.

[BeastMode716Participant]

 Golden State had been in a Rebuild since allowing Baron Davis to walk after 2008…..Anyway, they had won 23 games to 30ish games 3 years in a row….. 

in 2012, GSW had traded their 1st round pick to Portland but it was top 7 protected….. w/ about half the season remaining it looke like the young Warriors were going to win too many games…..

So GSW management traded a 23 y/o Monta Ellis for nothing so the Team would lose & hopefully retain their pick….. It worked but just barely….. GSW kept the pick & Drafted Harrison Barnes #7 overall….

GSW was Hammered in the press for the blatant tank…… And that summer during League Meetings a disgusted Portland Exec physically attacked a GSW exec……

Interesting side note: since all this is obviously aimed at the Sixers….. which is Laughable since L.A. has Tanked blatantly the last 2 years….. & Minnesota & Sacramento Both just finished under .500 for the 10 year in a Row…… & Phila Finally finished w/ the worst record in 2016 – which they had NOT in 2014 or 2015…….

Anyway, Golden State took Troy Murphy’s $13 Million Contract from New Jersey in the same year as the Harrison Barnes Tank….. In exchange, GSW received a 2nd round pick…… Phila got Hammered for doing this – clearing Salary Cap space so other teams could Dump contracts so the Other team could sign more players & in exchange the team taking the Player & his contract (when they have No intention of using the player) in exchange for a 1st or 2nd round pick….. Hinke acquired several 1st & 2nd round picks from teams like Miami, OKC, Denver & Sacramento by doing this……..

Nevertheless, Golden State did the Exact same type of deal w/ Billy King of the Nets in 2012 as I mentioned…… And w/ that acquired 2nd round pick in 2012, GSW drafted Draymond Green………

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BeastMode716Participant]

 Golden State had been in a Rebuild since allowing Baron Davis to walk after 2008…..Anyway, they had won 23 games to 30ish games 3 years in a row….. 

in 2012, GSW had traded their 1st round pick to Portland but it was top 7 protected….. w/ about half the season remaining it looke like the young Warriors were going to win too many games…..

So GSW management traded a 23 y/o Monta Ellis for nothing so the Team would lose & hopefully retain their pick….. It worked but just barely….. GSW kept the pick & Drafted Harrison Barnes #7 overall….

GSW was Hammered in the press for the blatant tank…… And that summer during League Meetings a disgusted Portland Exec physically attacked a GSW exec……

Interesting side note: since all this is obviously aimed at the Sixers….. which is Laughable since L.A. has Tanked blatantly the last 2 years….. & Minnesota & Sacramento Both just finished under .500 for the 10 year in a Row…… & Phila Finally finished w/ the worst record in 2016 – which they had NOT in 2014 or 2015…….

Anyway, Golden State took Troy Murphy’s $13 Million Contract from New Jersey in the same year as the Harrison Barnes Tank….. In exchange, GSW received a 2nd round pick…… Phila got Hammered for doing this – clearing Salary Cap space so other teams could Dump contracts so the Other team could sign more players & in exchange the team taking the Player & his contract (when they have No intention of using the player) in exchange for a 1st or 2nd round pick….. Hinke acquired several 1st & 2nd round picks from teams like Miami, OKC, Denver & Sacramento by doing this……..

Nevertheless, Golden State did the Exact same type of deal w/ Billy King of the Nets in 2012 as I mentioned…… And w/ that acquired 2nd round pick in 2012, GSW drafted Draymond Green………

 

 

 

 

 

 

[For_Never_EverParticipant]

 I felt they traded Monta Ellis for Steph Curry game, and to see what he could do. Also defensively they couldn’t play with each being extremely similar in size and build. Ellis wasn’t cool with the team picking Steph in the beginning. It was a plus by substraction.

[BeastMode716Participant]

 though…… GSW fans were still angry about allowing Baron Davis walk……. & Curry was out for the year after playing only 23 games……

They traded Ellis – their Leading scorer at 22 ppg to Milwaukee for Andrew Bogut & Stephen Jackson Both of whom were Out Injured for the year…….

So Golden State who was in the 4th year of a Rebuild / Tank (same as Phila)….. GSW had won 26, 29, 36 & 23 games from 2009 thru 2012……. 

….. It looked really bad………. I’m not trying to argue w/ you…. you make a good point….. plus I’m a Rookie on here, you’re a Vet…… I’m not a Sixers fan & I don’t think they did anything different from any other losing team…… they basically copied what Golden State did…… & GSW didn’t reinvent the wheel…..

 Phila’s mistake was hiring a GM who didn’t understand he needed to Sell a Rebuild…… No GM can just come out & say "hey listen we got screwed on that Bynum deal…… we lost some Really good players: Igudola, Vucevic; Harkless…. & we also lost our 2015 & 2017 First round picks….. So we’re just gonna Not try to sign anyone so we can lose & try to stock up on Picks like other franchises have done…"……….. Hinkie had to At Least play the game w/ the Press & he basically gave them the Finger….. & Hinkie learned the Oldest Lesson in the World…. "The Pen is Mightier than a 40 y/o balding, Analytics Geek…"……………

 

 

 

[For_Never_EverParticipant]

I understood why GS let Baron Davis walk. He was inury prone it seemed like majority of his carreer, and looked like his best days were before him heading into the tail end of his carreer. He got a 5yr 65 mill contract from the Clippers, and it really went south from there for him.

The Monta Ellis trade really wasn’t for nothing. I think even if you disagreeded with the trade you can still understood why it was done. Monta at the time was a one dimension scorer who was a bad defender until he got with the Maves. They hit the point like Nuggets did with Melo. The best already happened it wasn’t going to get better. Even though both were out during the trade was it a bad trade for what theyre getting back in return my opinion no. 

I consider what GS did rebuilding, and Philly a straight up culture changing tank job. 

[For_Never_EverParticipant]

I understood why GS let Baron Davis walk. He was inury prone it seemed like majority of his carreer, and looked like his best days were before him heading into the tail end of his carreer. He got a 5yr 65 mill contract from the Clippers, and it really went south from there for him.

The Monta Ellis trade really wasn’t for nothing. I think even if you disagreeded with the trade you can still understood why it was done. Monta at the time was a one dimension scorer who was a bad defender until he got with the Maves. They hit the point like Nuggets did with Melo. The best already happened it wasn’t going to get better. Even though both were out during the trade was it a bad trade for what theyre getting back in return my opinion no. 

I consider what GS did rebuilding, and Philly a straight up culture changing tank job. 

[BeastMode716Participant]

 though…… GSW fans were still angry about allowing Baron Davis walk……. & Curry was out for the year after playing only 23 games……

They traded Ellis – their Leading scorer at 22 ppg to Milwaukee for Andrew Bogut & Stephen Jackson Both of whom were Out Injured for the year…….

So Golden State who was in the 4th year of a Rebuild / Tank (same as Phila)….. GSW had won 26, 29, 36 & 23 games from 2009 thru 2012……. 

….. It looked really bad………. I’m not trying to argue w/ you…. you make a good point….. plus I’m a Rookie on here, you’re a Vet…… I’m not a Sixers fan & I don’t think they did anything different from any other losing team…… they basically copied what Golden State did…… & GSW didn’t reinvent the wheel…..

 Phila’s mistake was hiring a GM who didn’t understand he needed to Sell a Rebuild…… No GM can just come out & say "hey listen we got screwed on that Bynum deal…… we lost some Really good players: Igudola, Vucevic; Harkless…. & we also lost our 2015 & 2017 First round picks….. So we’re just gonna Not try to sign anyone so we can lose & try to stock up on Picks like other franchises have done…"……….. Hinkie had to At Least play the game w/ the Press & he basically gave them the Finger….. & Hinkie learned the Oldest Lesson in the World…. "The Pen is Mightier than a 40 y/o balding, Analytics Geek…"……………

 

 

 

[For_Never_EverParticipant]

 I felt they traded Monta Ellis for Steph Curry game, and to see what he could do. Also defensively they couldn’t play with each being extremely similar in size and build. Ellis wasn’t cool with the team picking Steph in the beginning. It was a plus by substraction.

[PurpleMonkeyDishwasherParticipant]

 That is about enough now dbag… now go elsewhere and be disruptive.  IS THAT YOUR MOM I HEAR CALLING?  Seriously. ?. Go be a d!ck elsewhere.

[PurpleMonkeyDishwasherParticipant]

 That is about enough now dbag… now go elsewhere and be disruptive.  IS THAT YOUR MOM I HEAR CALLING?  Seriously. ?. Go be a d!ck elsewhere.

[WinterSoldierParticipant]

 I think everbody understands getting the top free agents in their prime is the best way of winning unfortunately most teams can’t get those free agents to sign with them. Tanking is the only way for most teams to get talent/assets in order to attract the good players or be able trade for them. 

[WinterSoldierParticipant]

 I think everbody understands getting the top free agents in their prime is the best way of winning unfortunately most teams can’t get those free agents to sign with them. Tanking is the only way for most teams to get talent/assets in order to attract the good players or be able trade for them. 

[NickWayne87Participant]

 IF u get a top for pick it worked.  Better than that is up to chance.

 

[NickWayne87Participant]

 IF u get a top for pick it worked.  Better than that is up to chance.

 

[Hype Machine]

Out of curiousity…why couldnt Philly get Free Agents?

 

[holefillers1Participant]

 Maxed the cap with Elton Brand. He wasn’t the same player. Then hired Doug Collins who tried to win every game at the expense of developing young guys (Vucevic)  and trading him along with picks for an injured Andrew Bynum.  Sixers traded A.I. 10 years ago and haven’t been relevant since.  Thus is why most Sixers fans don’t nind this three year tank. At least we are a topic of conversation in this once vibrant basketball town.

[holefillers1Participant]

 Maxed the cap with Elton Brand. He wasn’t the same player. Then hired Doug Collins who tried to win every game at the expense of developing young guys (Vucevic)  and trading him along with picks for an injured Andrew Bynum.  Sixers traded A.I. 10 years ago and haven’t been relevant since.  Thus is why most Sixers fans don’t nind this three year tank. At least we are a topic of conversation in this once vibrant basketball town.

[Hype Machine]

Out of curiousity…why couldnt Philly get Free Agents?

 

[TheGuyParticipant]

 You can’t even spell Tim Duncan correct, good lord you ignramus

[dmo21Participant]

But you couldn’t even spell your insult word correctly….

[dmo21Participant]

But you couldn’t even spell your insult word correctly….

[TheGuyParticipant]

 You can’t even spell Tim Duncan correct, good lord you ignramus

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

 Not always the top pick, but most title teams do have some tanking in their plan.

As mentioned, the Warriors tanked to keep their pick.

Spurs, Duncan and Robinson.  The Spurs certainly tanked, Robinson and other players when healthy were sat and instead of trying to win they just got a really old Dominique to shoot 40 times a game.  First overall picks, Robinson and Duncan, that is why San Antonio have the banners.  Houston too, Olajuwon.

Miami during the LeBron draft, tanking, and they ended up with Wade.

Boston, they wanted the top pick and after tanking traded their pick to Seattle for R Allen and then won the title.

Lakers used some other tricks, Detroit won even though Darko was the pick from the tanking Grizzlies who didn’t try to tank, the Pistons before that went bad and got I Thomas with a high pick and later won twice.

Cleveland got close, tank for LeBron and then later tank to get picks so LeBron would come back.  LeBron won with another team, top pick Bogut won with another team, Shaq won with different teams to the one that drafted him top, tanking for the right draft and getting a superstar at 1 does work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

 Not always the top pick, but most title teams do have some tanking in their plan.

As mentioned, the Warriors tanked to keep their pick.

Spurs, Duncan and Robinson.  The Spurs certainly tanked, Robinson and other players when healthy were sat and instead of trying to win they just got a really old Dominique to shoot 40 times a game.  First overall picks, Robinson and Duncan, that is why San Antonio have the banners.  Houston too, Olajuwon.

Miami during the LeBron draft, tanking, and they ended up with Wade.

Boston, they wanted the top pick and after tanking traded their pick to Seattle for R Allen and then won the title.

Lakers used some other tricks, Detroit won even though Darko was the pick from the tanking Grizzlies who didn’t try to tank, the Pistons before that went bad and got I Thomas with a high pick and later won twice.

Cleveland got close, tank for LeBron and then later tank to get picks so LeBron would come back.  LeBron won with another team, top pick Bogut won with another team, Shaq won with different teams to the one that drafted him top, tanking for the right draft and getting a superstar at 1 does work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Author]

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