[JCliff24Participant]

Looking at the Win-Loss column this may seem a bit obvious for some but I will put it up for debate. Did the Cavs make the wrong or right decision picking Waiters over Harrison Barnes? With his second season nearly in the books Dion is now averaging 15.8ppg shooting 43% from the field and 37% from 3pt. Although he may not be the best fit, could he be the better talent?

[nick5354Participant]

I am massive Waiters fan.

He has really been turning it on as of late. In his last 10 games he has been averging 21.4/2.7/4.1 on .464% FG and .37% from 3.

I know people on here are generally fairly negative on Dion, thinking he will be more like JR Smith than D Wade, however, I see more Wade on him. I think he will be a star. Watching him play has been amazing, he is such a gifted passer (I’ll actually say on par with Kyrie) and play maker. He is so strong and can bully his way to the rim or strength to get off his shot. His ball handeling is really good as well. He a good ability to create his own shot and split the double team.

He still has a long way to go but I honestly do not see why people are so negative about him? He does need to take more advanatage of this strength and stop settling for awful long 2s. His shot selection has imporved since he first came into the Cavs however still needs work.

Dion just has that fire in him, which I honestly love. You can tell this kid wants to win basketball games and play against the great players in the league. Did anyone see that big game winner vs Pistons?

And that 1 vs 1 pick up in the Rookie Challange with Hardaway was nuts. When he dropped Hardaway and nailed the 3, I remember him yelling at the crowd ‘this is my town now’. He just makes me think he will be a great player.

Time will tell though. Barnes just doesn’t make me think he will be anything great.

[nick5354Participant]

I am massive Waiters fan.

He has really been turning it on as of late. In his last 10 games he has been averging 21.4/2.7/4.1 on .464% FG and .37% from 3.

I know people on here are generally fairly negative on Dion, thinking he will be more like JR Smith than D Wade, however, I see more Wade on him. I think he will be a star. Watching him play has been amazing, he is such a gifted passer (I’ll actually say on par with Kyrie) and play maker. He is so strong and can bully his way to the rim or strength to get off his shot. His ball handeling is really good as well. He a good ability to create his own shot and split the double team.

He still has a long way to go but I honestly do not see why people are so negative about him? He does need to take more advanatage of this strength and stop settling for awful long 2s. His shot selection has imporved since he first came into the Cavs however still needs work.

Dion just has that fire in him, which I honestly love. You can tell this kid wants to win basketball games and play against the great players in the league. Did anyone see that big game winner vs Pistons?

And that 1 vs 1 pick up in the Rookie Challange with Hardaway was nuts. When he dropped Hardaway and nailed the 3, I remember him yelling at the crowd ‘this is my town now’. He just makes me think he will be a great player.

Time will tell though. Barnes just doesn’t make me think he will be anything great.

[livinlegend4blkParticipant]

That  1 on 1 battle was amazing better than the All Star game itself

[livinlegend4blkParticipant]

That  1 on 1 battle was amazing better than the All Star game itself

[GrandmamaParticipant]

 I think Barnes is the better player.  He just isn’t getting the minutes this year because of Iggy.

[GrandmamaParticipant]

 I think Barnes is the better player.  He just isn’t getting the minutes this year because of Iggy.

[imAboutDatActionParticipant]

 Waiters can flat out score the basketball. his IQ needs abit more growing to do though. if his shot selection improves, he can become an efficent 20ppg scorer at one point in his career.

he’s shown flashes of vision and passing ability. he can become a combo guard. 

he’s just not in the right spot. Kyrie is ball dominate as well. he takes alot of shots as well. Cavs dont use him right.

 

[imAboutDatActionParticipant]

 Waiters can flat out score the basketball. his IQ needs abit more growing to do though. if his shot selection improves, he can become an efficent 20ppg scorer at one point in his career.

he’s shown flashes of vision and passing ability. he can become a combo guard. 

he’s just not in the right spot. Kyrie is ball dominate as well. he takes alot of shots as well. Cavs dont use him right.

 

[rileymcshea3Participant]

 Didn’t like the Waiters pick when it happened and still don’t like now. He just doesn’t seem like a guy who leads to winning. Not only do I like the pick for his talent level at such a high pick, but he also doesn’t seem to fit Kyrie Irving who is the corner stone of the Cavs. I think no doubt Harrison Barnes would have worked out a lot better, I would even think that picking Oladipo last year at number 1 and having him as the SG of the future would be a better plan. 

Barnes would complimented Kyrie well since he is a athletic shooter and can score without the ball while it seems that Kyrie is a very ball dominant player. Waiters is also a ball dominant player but he it’s that much of a efficient one. Barnes can do other stuff like rebounding and defending that Kyrie isn’t good at. 

[rileymcshea3Participant]

 Didn’t like the Waiters pick when it happened and still don’t like now. He just doesn’t seem like a guy who leads to winning. Not only do I like the pick for his talent level at such a high pick, but he also doesn’t seem to fit Kyrie Irving who is the corner stone of the Cavs. I think no doubt Harrison Barnes would have worked out a lot better, I would even think that picking Oladipo last year at number 1 and having him as the SG of the future would be a better plan. 

Barnes would complimented Kyrie well since he is a athletic shooter and can score without the ball while it seems that Kyrie is a very ball dominant player. Waiters is also a ball dominant player but he it’s that much of a efficient one. Barnes can do other stuff like rebounding and defending that Kyrie isn’t good at. 

[livinlegend4blkParticipant]

I don’t care how crazy it may sound to some of you guys I would take dion Waiters over Kyrie Irving any day some of you might think I’m crazy but if dion gets the ball in his hands as much as Kyrie people going to easily say he’s a star but Kyrie has the ball in his hands 89% of the time and holds it for 15 to 16 seconds in a 24 second shot clock but Kyrie is special with the dribble and I respect his game a lot but he is not that much better than dion just gets has the ball more and me watching them play they won more games with dion touching the ball more go look it up guy’s! 

[livinlegend4blkParticipant]

I don’t care how crazy it may sound to some of you guys I would take dion Waiters over Kyrie Irving any day some of you might think I’m crazy but if dion gets the ball in his hands as much as Kyrie people going to easily say he’s a star but Kyrie has the ball in his hands 89% of the time and holds it for 15 to 16 seconds in a 24 second shot clock but Kyrie is special with the dribble and I respect his game a lot but he is not that much better than dion just gets has the ball more and me watching them play they won more games with dion touching the ball more go look it up guy’s! 

[[email protected]Participant]

Dion has a leadership mentality: he sets up teammates for baskets, isn’t afraid to admit his mistakes, and is willing to call people out.

At first people were apprehensive of him doing it as a rookie, but now he is the vocal leader, Verajao is silent vet/lead by example type,on the Cavs.

Even Kyrie has accepted that Dion is more of a leader on the team, as seen since he has come back from injury he is passing to Dion and playing more off the ball.

[[email protected]Participant]

Dion has a leadership mentality: he sets up teammates for baskets, isn’t afraid to admit his mistakes, and is willing to call people out.

At first people were apprehensive of him doing it as a rookie, but now he is the vocal leader, Verajao is silent vet/lead by example type,on the Cavs.

Even Kyrie has accepted that Dion is more of a leader on the team, as seen since he has come back from injury he is passing to Dion and playing more off the ball.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 I still think Barnes is the better player and would compliment Irving alot better. Barnes is in my opinion one the most misused players in the league and I hope he gets out of Golden State.

Nothing against Waiters I think he is great but Im high on Barnes.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 I still think Barnes is the better player and would compliment Irving alot better. Barnes is in my opinion one the most misused players in the league and I hope he gets out of Golden State.

Nothing against Waiters I think he is great but Im high on Barnes.

[HoopLandParticipant]

Dion W. is a good players but Harrison Barnes would have been the best pick. Andre D. would have been a great pick as well.  

[HoopLandParticipant]

Dion W. is a good players but Harrison Barnes would have been the best pick. Andre D. would have been a great pick as well.  

[princejamesParticipant]

I like Dion Waiters, but Harrison Barnes Should have been picked over waiters in the 2012 nba draft. Dion Waiters is talented, but I think he is destined to be a sixth man, who comes off the bench to provide energy and explosive scoring ability. When dion waiters was in college I thought he played like a mix between Ronald ” Flip” Murray and Randy Foye. He was a overrated prospect because the only dynamic skill set he possesses is the ability to score at a very high level, but he is average at everything else. He’s an average playmaker, average defender, average facilitator, he’s below average in his ability to make those around him better, and he’s average in his ability to utilize good passing instincts to create scoring opportunities for his teammates. And he needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective, which is bad because he’s not a very efficient scorer and not a very efficient decision maker

Harrison Barnes has the potential to easily be a perennial all-star and he has the talent level and skill level needed to be a number 1 offensive option on a good team. He’s a very talented shooter and scorer, who can score from every where on the basketball court. He can score from the perimeter through utilizing great shooting skills and dynamic footwork, he has a skilled and effective mid range game, he’s a talented finisher around the rim who can finish shots around the rim with athleticism, touch, and body control, He also has a very good overall post-up skill set. Where he looks to take advantage of his decent footwork and size to create easy opportunities for himself to score around the rim. Not only is he a versatile scorer, but he is also an efficient scorer who always fights to get to the needed spots on the court that helps him be an dynamic and efficient scorer. He’s also a very intelligent basketball player, unselfish, a great teammate, a talented defender, and a guy who’s dedicated to working on becoming the best player that he can become
Harrison Barnes and Kyrie Irving would have been a great duo, while it’s extremely obvious that kyrie irving and dion waiters can’t consistently play well together

[princejamesParticipant]

I like Dion Waiters, but Harrison Barnes Should have been picked over waiters in the 2012 nba draft. Dion Waiters is talented, but I think he is destined to be a sixth man, who comes off the bench to provide energy and explosive scoring ability. When dion waiters was in college I thought he played like a mix between Ronald ” Flip” Murray and Randy Foye. He was a overrated prospect because the only dynamic skill set he possesses is the ability to score at a very high level, but he is average at everything else. He’s an average playmaker, average defender, average facilitator, he’s below average in his ability to make those around him better, and he’s average in his ability to utilize good passing instincts to create scoring opportunities for his teammates. And he needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective, which is bad because he’s not a very efficient scorer and not a very efficient decision maker

Harrison Barnes has the potential to easily be a perennial all-star and he has the talent level and skill level needed to be a number 1 offensive option on a good team. He’s a very talented shooter and scorer, who can score from every where on the basketball court. He can score from the perimeter through utilizing great shooting skills and dynamic footwork, he has a skilled and effective mid range game, he’s a talented finisher around the rim who can finish shots around the rim with athleticism, touch, and body control, He also has a very good overall post-up skill set. Where he looks to take advantage of his decent footwork and size to create easy opportunities for himself to score around the rim. Not only is he a versatile scorer, but he is also an efficient scorer who always fights to get to the needed spots on the court that helps him be an dynamic and efficient scorer. He’s also a very intelligent basketball player, unselfish, a great teammate, a talented defender, and a guy who’s dedicated to working on becoming the best player that he can become
Harrison Barnes and Kyrie Irving would have been a great duo, while it’s extremely obvious that kyrie irving and dion waiters can’t consistently play well together

[WITNESS2014Participant]

I think taking Tristian Thompson with the 4th pick the year before was the bigger mistake. We took him ahead of Kenneth Faried, Klay Thompson, Jonas Valanciunis, Kwahi Leonard, guys who all I would of rather of had them pick at the time. Then there are other guys like Jimmy Butler, Iman Shumpert, Nikola Vucevic who ended up being better picked later on that I didn’t think of.

Back to Waiters though, I think he is great player who plays with a fire but he might not be the best fit with Irving. I think somebody like Terrence Ross, Harrison Barnes, or Andre Drummond would of been a better fit for the teams future. I see a big improvement in Waiters game this year even though it doesn’t show much in the box score. Waiters would fit better as the main ball handler for the team. Ross and Barnes don’t need the ball in their hands to be effective and might fint better next to Irving and they can stretc the floor and defend. Drummond would obviously be our Center of the future so it sucks knowing they passed that up. I expect to see big strides from waiters next season.

[WITNESS2014Participant]

I think taking Tristian Thompson with the 4th pick the year before was the bigger mistake. We took him ahead of Kenneth Faried, Klay Thompson, Jonas Valanciunis, Kwahi Leonard, guys who all I would of rather of had them pick at the time. Then there are other guys like Jimmy Butler, Iman Shumpert, Nikola Vucevic who ended up being better picked later on that I didn’t think of.

Back to Waiters though, I think he is great player who plays with a fire but he might not be the best fit with Irving. I think somebody like Terrence Ross, Harrison Barnes, or Andre Drummond would of been a better fit for the teams future. I see a big improvement in Waiters game this year even though it doesn’t show much in the box score. Waiters would fit better as the main ball handler for the team. Ross and Barnes don’t need the ball in their hands to be effective and might fint better next to Irving and they can stretc the floor and defend. Drummond would obviously be our Center of the future so it sucks knowing they passed that up. I expect to see big strides from waiters next season.

[HaleParticipant]

There were two guys I thought absolutely needed to go before Waiters in the draft. Drummond and Barnes. Drummond is clearly better. Like Grandmama I believe Barnes is better but I can understand an argument for Waiters. So I think the Cavs should’ve made a different pick but Waiters is better than I expected him to be.

[HaleParticipant]

There were two guys I thought absolutely needed to go before Waiters in the draft. Drummond and Barnes. Drummond is clearly better. Like Grandmama I believe Barnes is better but I can understand an argument for Waiters. So I think the Cavs should’ve made a different pick but Waiters is better than I expected him to be.

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 Could you imagine a Klay Thompson, Kyrie Irving, Andre Drummond trifecta, scary talent.

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 Could you imagine a Klay Thompson, Kyrie Irving, Andre Drummond trifecta, scary talent.

[JCliff24Participant]

There was a post earlier today about Drummond that hit the nail on the head. He doesn’t like to play defense. On paper he is fantastic but that is because he’s busy looking for the rebound even before the shot goes up.

I will always be a huge Harrison Barnes fan but have to disagree with the comment about he’s not getting minutes. He is still getting just over 28 a game. Two very different players. I think Waiters is the better talent, Barnes would have been the better fit.

[JCliff24Participant]

There was a post earlier today about Drummond that hit the nail on the head. He doesn’t like to play defense. On paper he is fantastic but that is because he’s busy looking for the rebound even before the shot goes up.

I will always be a huge Harrison Barnes fan but have to disagree with the comment about he’s not getting minutes. He is still getting just over 28 a game. Two very different players. I think Waiters is the better talent, Barnes would have been the better fit.

[shangrilaParticipant]

Eh, it’s tough to say. I still think the pick was stupid at the time. Waiters was a late lottery pick before he shut it down and, IIRC, him going 4th was a surprise to a lot of people. If they wanted him so desperately they should have traded down (unless they did and couldn’t, in which case don’t mind me :]).

As far as him as a player, he’s certainly not the bust people were so eager to call him earlier in his career. But at the same time I think it’s clear that he and Irving don’t mesh. Whether that’s because of their playstyles clashing or the rumoured off the court issues, I don’t know, but it seems inevitable that one of them is leaving some time soon. And in that respect it could end up being a meh pick, depending on what they got back for him (or Irving, I guess).

The real stinker has and will always be taking Thompson. He’s average at best and there were better players picked after him (I’m talking pre-draft here too, this isn’t just hindsight).

[shangrilaParticipant]

Eh, it’s tough to say. I still think the pick was stupid at the time. Waiters was a late lottery pick before he shut it down and, IIRC, him going 4th was a surprise to a lot of people. If they wanted him so desperately they should have traded down (unless they did and couldn’t, in which case don’t mind me :]).

As far as him as a player, he’s certainly not the bust people were so eager to call him earlier in his career. But at the same time I think it’s clear that he and Irving don’t mesh. Whether that’s because of their playstyles clashing or the rumoured off the court issues, I don’t know, but it seems inevitable that one of them is leaving some time soon. And in that respect it could end up being a meh pick, depending on what they got back for him (or Irving, I guess).

The real stinker has and will always be taking Thompson. He’s average at best and there were better players picked after him (I’m talking pre-draft here too, this isn’t just hindsight).

[theballerwayParticipant]

I think people are still expecting Barnes to blow up based on that Play off series (or two) he had last year where he was able to excel in a mismatch situation. He got hot and he did well. Listen I know he looks like he could do so much all the physicals tools, sweet looking stroke but the fact is he pretty much the same player he was at UNC except stronger maybe. His biggestflaw was probably ball handling, the ability to create rather than be a just spot up guy. This hasnt improved though so hes a spot up guy shooting 39% from the field like mentioned above his minutes are up (only3) to 29mpg he should always be in single coverage considering the other real weapons on the team. There is no reason to think or dream that him starting would make him better as he has had oppurtunities to start with all of iggys injuries and shown no up in production. He my friends is a ‘ sixth man’ its written all over him. Shooter off the bench when he gets his stroke going (which I believe he will at some point). This guy has been scouted and figured out. Until he expands his game what you see is whatyour going to get. 10pts and 3 or 4 boards minimal assist. Im not sure what logic  makes ityt seem that him as the starting sf at Cleveland thus being 2 or 3rd option he is all of a sudden going to be some great fit and start scoring at some crazy rate. Kyries hardly pass first.

In both seasons waiters has played better with much more defensive attention and responsibilty(with Irvings injuries). His percentages have gone up across the board which shopws hes has been probably taking better shots or become a better shooter eitherway its the development he needed to make.

Based on tool maybe Barnes could be the better player some day but rioght now he clearly isnt imo.

Again I understand fully what he should be but take a look at what he is right now.

[theballerwayParticipant]

I think people are still expecting Barnes to blow up based on that Play off series (or two) he had last year where he was able to excel in a mismatch situation. He got hot and he did well. Listen I know he looks like he could do so much all the physicals tools, sweet looking stroke but the fact is he pretty much the same player he was at UNC except stronger maybe. His biggestflaw was probably ball handling, the ability to create rather than be a just spot up guy. This hasnt improved though so hes a spot up guy shooting 39% from the field like mentioned above his minutes are up (only3) to 29mpg he should always be in single coverage considering the other real weapons on the team. There is no reason to think or dream that him starting would make him better as he has had oppurtunities to start with all of iggys injuries and shown no up in production. He my friends is a ‘ sixth man’ its written all over him. Shooter off the bench when he gets his stroke going (which I believe he will at some point). This guy has been scouted and figured out. Until he expands his game what you see is whatyour going to get. 10pts and 3 or 4 boards minimal assist. Im not sure what logic  makes ityt seem that him as the starting sf at Cleveland thus being 2 or 3rd option he is all of a sudden going to be some great fit and start scoring at some crazy rate. Kyries hardly pass first.

In both seasons waiters has played better with much more defensive attention and responsibilty(with Irvings injuries). His percentages have gone up across the board which shopws hes has been probably taking better shots or become a better shooter eitherway its the development he needed to make.

Based on tool maybe Barnes could be the better player some day but rioght now he clearly isnt imo.

Again I understand fully what he should be but take a look at what he is right now.

[A Lil EnglishParticipant]

I am also a big Waiters fan. As someone previously mentioned he definitely has that competitive fire. He probably needs to control it a little better.

 

I thought he was a big reach at first but after reading about how the Cavs saw him as someone who could take some of the weight off Irving’s young shoulders I began to believe in him. This was before I’d seen much of him. After seeing some of the things he could do I really liked the thing he can do on offense and thought he could be my favourite SG soon. It seemed he was not initially a good fit with Kyrie but I think they can work it out if they both want to win. They probably did bump heads a few times but I like how they recently answered rumours that they don’t get along in an interview while smiling. The main thing they all have to is defend better first as a unit and I think that can come with time.

 

People were writing Waiters off after 1 year!!! I swear it was just because the Cavs took him that high and they were probably the same people on the Barnes bandwagon after slating him in his college career.

 

If you want to compare the two..

Barnes is playing off Klay Thompson, Steph Curry & David Lee, and against more 2^nd units!! Waiters overall is shooting better percentages this year than Barnes on a higher volume of shots.

People complain about Waiters shot selection but it is improving, I think the bigger issue is his finishing because he is so good at getting in the paint but shoots low percentages there. So basically Barnes is taking or getting better shots and missing them?

 

 

[Scott42444Participant]

 I have to strongly disagree, from what I have watched of Waiters, in regards to competitive fire.  I am a Bulls fan, which is a team that I watch almost religiously, but I am also a fan of the NBA and watch more games than my wife can stomach most of the time.  But using the Bulls as an example, guys like Jimmy Butler or Joakim Noah have "that competitve fire".  It comes from playing hard, within a system, night in and night out regardless of the accolades to help a team win.  It means that they will alter their game in ways that might not (at first) feel like it is playing to their strengths but actually helps to expand their individual games and expand the postseason prospects of their team.  Guys who are scorers and "work hard" to score every possession aren’t showing cometitiveness.  That’s actually selfishness.  If Waiters attempted to fit into a system and the Cavs started winning more games I could agree with you.  The All-Star rookie/sophomore game was a guy trying to outscore the other team’s hot hand with Waiters going against Hardaway.  How is that showing fire?  Every player on every playground in America that has a halfway decent shot is a competitor if that’s the criteria.  Sometimes guys make up for a lack of talent with hustle, I can understand that.  But the best players that earn playing time and earn their accolades find ways to help their teams win even if it means their scoring might take a backseat sometimes to their team play.

[Scott42444Participant]

 I have to strongly disagree, from what I have watched of Waiters, in regards to competitive fire.  I am a Bulls fan, which is a team that I watch almost religiously, but I am also a fan of the NBA and watch more games than my wife can stomach most of the time.  But using the Bulls as an example, guys like Jimmy Butler or Joakim Noah have "that competitve fire".  It comes from playing hard, within a system, night in and night out regardless of the accolades to help a team win.  It means that they will alter their game in ways that might not (at first) feel like it is playing to their strengths but actually helps to expand their individual games and expand the postseason prospects of their team.  Guys who are scorers and "work hard" to score every possession aren’t showing cometitiveness.  That’s actually selfishness.  If Waiters attempted to fit into a system and the Cavs started winning more games I could agree with you.  The All-Star rookie/sophomore game was a guy trying to outscore the other team’s hot hand with Waiters going against Hardaway.  How is that showing fire?  Every player on every playground in America that has a halfway decent shot is a competitor if that’s the criteria.  Sometimes guys make up for a lack of talent with hustle, I can understand that.  But the best players that earn playing time and earn their accolades find ways to help their teams win even if it means their scoring might take a backseat sometimes to their team play.

[A Lil EnglishParticipant]

I am also a big Waiters fan. As someone previously mentioned he definitely has that competitive fire. He probably needs to control it a little better.

 

I thought he was a big reach at first but after reading about how the Cavs saw him as someone who could take some of the weight off Irving’s young shoulders I began to believe in him. This was before I’d seen much of him. After seeing some of the things he could do I really liked the thing he can do on offense and thought he could be my favourite SG soon. It seemed he was not initially a good fit with Kyrie but I think they can work it out if they both want to win. They probably did bump heads a few times but I like how they recently answered rumours that they don’t get along in an interview while smiling. The main thing they all have to is defend better first as a unit and I think that can come with time.

 

People were writing Waiters off after 1 year!!! I swear it was just because the Cavs took him that high and they were probably the same people on the Barnes bandwagon after slating him in his college career.

 

If you want to compare the two..

Barnes is playing off Klay Thompson, Steph Curry & David Lee, and against more 2^nd units!! Waiters overall is shooting better percentages this year than Barnes on a higher volume of shots.

People complain about Waiters shot selection but it is improving, I think the bigger issue is his finishing because he is so good at getting in the paint but shoots low percentages there. So basically Barnes is taking or getting better shots and missing them?

 

 

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 Waiters has his issues, but he is a much better player than Barnes at this point.  I don’t know why Barnes seems to get more hype in the NBA than he did in college despite his lackluster performance.  Barnes PER is in the single digits and he is shooting under 40% from the field.  Since the All-Star break, Barnes has shot under 34% from the field.

I think because Waiters is viewed by many as a sixth man, which I guess is due to his poor shot selection, he gets downgraded as a player.  The fact is, both Waiters and Barnes have both used as second-unit scorers and Barnes has failed at that role this season, while Waiters has been effective.  People expected Waiters to fail as a rookie and that became the narrative, which Waiters couldn’t change, even though he had a better rookie year than Barnes on the offensive end of the floor.

By the same token, Barnes often gets a pass on his flaws due to his fundamentally sound game.  While Barnes shooting form entering the league looked better than Waiters, Barnes is a clearly inferior shooter both from mid-range and beyond-the-arc despite being more reliant on his jump shot than Waiters.  Barnes, like Waiters, overdribbles and is overly reliant on contested mid-range looks.  The difference is that Waiters actually makes those shots (over 45% on long-2s on the season).

Waiters has a lot of flaws as a player, but he is a talented scorer who is developing into an elite shooter.  He needs to improve his finishing at the rim and could help himself by turning some of his long-twos into threes, but he has a future as a 20 ppg scorer in this league.  He is averaging 18.1 ppg as a starter this season.  The question is whether Waiters can fit his production onto a winning team and if he can improve his defense.  But that is easier to do than to start producing in the first place, which Barnes hasnt.

 

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 Waiters has his issues, but he is a much better player than Barnes at this point.  I don’t know why Barnes seems to get more hype in the NBA than he did in college despite his lackluster performance.  Barnes PER is in the single digits and he is shooting under 40% from the field.  Since the All-Star break, Barnes has shot under 34% from the field.

I think because Waiters is viewed by many as a sixth man, which I guess is due to his poor shot selection, he gets downgraded as a player.  The fact is, both Waiters and Barnes have both used as second-unit scorers and Barnes has failed at that role this season, while Waiters has been effective.  People expected Waiters to fail as a rookie and that became the narrative, which Waiters couldn’t change, even though he had a better rookie year than Barnes on the offensive end of the floor.

By the same token, Barnes often gets a pass on his flaws due to his fundamentally sound game.  While Barnes shooting form entering the league looked better than Waiters, Barnes is a clearly inferior shooter both from mid-range and beyond-the-arc despite being more reliant on his jump shot than Waiters.  Barnes, like Waiters, overdribbles and is overly reliant on contested mid-range looks.  The difference is that Waiters actually makes those shots (over 45% on long-2s on the season).

Waiters has a lot of flaws as a player, but he is a talented scorer who is developing into an elite shooter.  He needs to improve his finishing at the rim and could help himself by turning some of his long-twos into threes, but he has a future as a 20 ppg scorer in this league.  He is averaging 18.1 ppg as a starter this season.  The question is whether Waiters can fit his production onto a winning team and if he can improve his defense.  But that is easier to do than to start producing in the first place, which Barnes hasnt.

 

[strobox88Participant]

 It would probably be more likely Iggy bounces to another team within the next one to two years than Barnes going to a new team.  Golden State is a great fit for Barnes, he’s just not seeing the playing time we would like him to see.  His time will come.

Waiters was and still is a risky pick for Cleveland (while Kyrie is there), but one that might turn out to be the right pick as I believe Kyrie won’t be staying in Cleveland once he becomes a free agent.  If Kyrie leaves, Waiters could be the new face of their franchise.  If that happens, they need a true point guard to feed Waiters the ball.  Someone I think can do that in this year’s draft that is within drafting range is Kyle Anderson.

 

 

[MopgrassParticipant]

If Kyrie does leave, do you make Waiters the PG or do you get a PG to pass him the ball?

[MopgrassParticipant]

If Kyrie does leave, do you make Waiters the PG or do you get a PG to pass him the ball?

[strobox88Participant]

 It would probably be more likely Iggy bounces to another team within the next one to two years than Barnes going to a new team.  Golden State is a great fit for Barnes, he’s just not seeing the playing time we would like him to see.  His time will come.

Waiters was and still is a risky pick for Cleveland (while Kyrie is there), but one that might turn out to be the right pick as I believe Kyrie won’t be staying in Cleveland once he becomes a free agent.  If Kyrie leaves, Waiters could be the new face of their franchise.  If that happens, they need a true point guard to feed Waiters the ball.  Someone I think can do that in this year’s draft that is within drafting range is Kyle Anderson.

 

 

[A Lil EnglishParticipant]

Barnes this season has played around 28 minutes per game and he is shooting under 40%. He hasn’t been better since the all star break – the last 20 games he has shot under 35%.

Cos he’s not shooting well and he isn’t better defender than Iguodola. So why do people think he deserves more playing time?

[A Lil EnglishParticipant]

Barnes this season has played around 28 minutes per game and he is shooting under 40%. He hasn’t been better since the all star break – the last 20 games he has shot under 35%.

Cos he’s not shooting well and he isn’t better defender than Iguodola. So why do people think he deserves more playing time?

[OhCanada-Participant]

 He doesnt deserve more playing time with G-State. He deserves more playing time on another team with a need for an offensive SF that needs Field Goal Attempts the ball in his hand and room to grow.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 He doesnt deserve more playing time with G-State. He deserves more playing time on another team with a need for an offensive SF that needs Field Goal Attempts the ball in his hand and room to grow.

[A Lil EnglishParticipant]

I agree it would be interesting to see him on another team (I actually wanted the Bobcats to take him even if it may have been a reach).

The only problem I have is when you are playing with the guys he is playing with in GS and shooting such low percentages that to me doesn’t say to me he particurly needs field goal attempts. I think he needs to continue working on his shot etc, which he can do anywhere.

[A Lil EnglishParticipant]

I agree it would be interesting to see him on another team (I actually wanted the Bobcats to take him even if it may have been a reach).

The only problem I have is when you are playing with the guys he is playing with in GS and shooting such low percentages that to me doesn’t say to me he particurly needs field goal attempts. I think he needs to continue working on his shot etc, which he can do anywhere.

[eyefortalentParticipant]

 Spoke to a Cleveland sports reporter who told me the best player they worked out was Damian Lillard. They stupidly thought they couldn’t pair two point guards together and play him with Irving. 

[B-ball fanParticipant]

Nobody had Lillard going that high.  He would have been a bigger shocker than Waiters.  And not every workout warrior actually becomes a great player.  Lillard’s pre-draft work outs were hyped big time, and may have been extremely impressive, but so where DeWayne Dedmon’s.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

Nobody had Lillard going that high.  He would have been a bigger shocker than Waiters.  And not every workout warrior actually becomes a great player.  Lillard’s pre-draft work outs were hyped big time, and may have been extremely impressive, but so where DeWayne Dedmon’s.

[eyefortalentParticipant]

 Spoke to a Cleveland sports reporter who told me the best player they worked out was Damian Lillard. They stupidly thought they couldn’t pair two point guards together and play him with Irving. 

[thparadoxParticipant]

Waiters can score in volume, but so can many players in the NBA. He hasn’t shown an ability to defend or score efficiently.

Like others, I thought it was a very bad pick at the time, and my thoughts haven’t changed. Waiters hasn’t given me a reason to change my mind.

I still don’t understand why anyone would pick Waiters over Jeremy Lamb at the SG position. And when Harrison Barnes, Damian Lillard, and Andre Drummond are available, it’s just ridiculous. (I mean at the time of the draft, not in hindsight).

As always, win shares are not perfect:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi

 

[thparadoxParticipant]

Waiters can score in volume, but so can many players in the NBA. He hasn’t shown an ability to defend or score efficiently.

Like others, I thought it was a very bad pick at the time, and my thoughts haven’t changed. Waiters hasn’t given me a reason to change my mind.

I still don’t understand why anyone would pick Waiters over Jeremy Lamb at the SG position. And when Harrison Barnes, Damian Lillard, and Andre Drummond are available, it’s just ridiculous. (I mean at the time of the draft, not in hindsight).

As always, win shares are not perfect:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi

 

[omphalosParticipant]

 Barnes was the right pick simply because he gave them the best chance at keeping Irving long-term. Kyrie and Harrison are good friends and he was actively lobbying for them to take him with the 4th pick. Instead he has a guy like Dion that he clearly doesn’t get along with. Cleveland goofed, plain and simple.

[omphalosParticipant]

 Barnes was the right pick simply because he gave them the best chance at keeping Irving long-term. Kyrie and Harrison are good friends and he was actively lobbying for them to take him with the 4th pick. Instead he has a guy like Dion that he clearly doesn’t get along with. Cleveland goofed, plain and simple.

[MadDogParticipant]

 Of all the players picked after Waiters its difficult to believe Barnes would be the one to lament not picking. He’s been flat out awful and only riding hype this season after a mediocre playoff outing which looked better than it was because he played big minutes. At the time of the draft I don’t think there was a better option either as no one had Lillard or Drummond going that high and Robinson / Barnes have both been limited. Waiters may have a bad attitude at times and his chemistry with Kyrie isn’t helping but given a featured role he can shoot the lights out. In fact the Cavs were doing better with Kyrie out and Waiters being option no. 1

[MadDogParticipant]

 Of all the players picked after Waiters its difficult to believe Barnes would be the one to lament not picking. He’s been flat out awful and only riding hype this season after a mediocre playoff outing which looked better than it was because he played big minutes. At the time of the draft I don’t think there was a better option either as no one had Lillard or Drummond going that high and Robinson / Barnes have both been limited. Waiters may have a bad attitude at times and his chemistry with Kyrie isn’t helping but given a featured role he can shoot the lights out. In fact the Cavs were doing better with Kyrie out and Waiters being option no. 1

[Author]

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