[jjonzParticipant]

When i think of Kareem  i remember being a little boy asking my father "Hey dad who is that bald guy with those crazy glasses?" To which my father replied " That is Kareem one the best Offensive players ever."  this guy had the most unguardable shot in the history of the League.

After reading the article below I’m sold: Kareem should be a Top 3 Player of AllTime Laker or Not.  Here are some mind-bogling #’s

18 MVP awards for His College/Regular & Post Season’s/+ the Allstar Games

167-4 Record in High School & College

 

Your thoughts Please.

 

A Lakers Blog. Thoughts, reflections, and the odd rant on the Los Angeles Lakers and the NBA (even the Clippers).

The Greatest Forgotten Player

November 29th, 2011

Let’s liven up the place by playing a little bit of Jeopardy. For those that are unfamiliar with the game, it consists of names, cities or events showing up on the television screen and you have to figure out what question would prompt the answer that is displayed on the monitor. For instance, if I said Forum Blue and Gold, the proper question would be something along the lines of “what is the name of the Los Angeles Lakers ESPN TrueHoop Affiliate blog?”

Now that that’s been settled, on to the game shall we?

Answer #1: Shaquille O’Neal and Wilt Chamberlain

Most would agree that the question here would be something along the lines of “who are the two most dominant players the NBA has ever seen?”

Answer #2: Magic Johnson, Larry Bird and Michael Jordan

If we polled NBA fans, the majority would probably conclude that the question is “Who are three of the greatest players of all time?”

Answer #3: Kobe Bryant

This one obviously has some historical context to take into account, but if that name had to be the answer to a question at any point in time during the year 2011, a fairly substantial amount of people would agree that the question would and should be “Who is the greatest Laker ever?”

All three answers seemed to sync up perfectly with the questions; and yet we could have substituted the name of one player to fit in all three of the answers for which the questions matched: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

Wilt Chamberlain and Shaquille O’Neal were easily two of the most imposing as well as gifted big men the NBA has ever seen. Both players could put up ridiculous numbers in scoring, rebounding and shot blocking; but more importantly they instilled fear in the heart of their opponents with their size, athletic ability as well as basketball talent.

Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan changed our collective perception of superstars. By the time they had retired, it wasn’t enough to simply outplay your opponent night after night no matter how great he was; instead you had to also make your teammates look and play better along the way in order to earn the right to be mentioned amongst them.

Recently, Kobe Bryant became the Lakers all-time leading scorer and in addition he helped the purple and gold extract some revenge against their biggest rivals by leading the Los Angeles Lakers to a victory over the Boston Celtics in the 2010 NBA Finals. Couple that with his five championship rings, his MVP trophy, his four All-Star Game MVPs and his two Finals MVP trophies, and he built himself an impressive case to be considered the greatest Laker of all.

And for all of the greatness of the players previously listed, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar’s name has to absolutely fit in there amongst them.

For all the talk of the dominance of big men, few were more dominant than Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was throughout his lengthy career. Indeed, fans remember his famous skyhook and how automatic of a shot it seemed to be, but it was viewed as a finesse shot and thus the labels of power player or unstoppable big man were never really bestowed on the former Bruin.

And yet, when Abdul-Jabbar joined the NBA in 1969, no one could stop him. Not even the great Wilt Chamberlain. Granted the Big Dipper was an aging player, but he still had enough left in the tank to play at a high level (as evidenced by his 1972 NBA Finals MVP award) and dominate the paint. But when the Stilt played against Kareem, there was nothing much he could do. He may have blocked a few of his opponent’s shots and successfully contested his attempts; but ultimately Wilt was powerless against his nemesis in the 1971 Western Conference Finals and same in 1972.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was a monster, routinely hitting the 30-point mark against Wilt. And to put this in perspective: if the Big Dipper himself could not limit the future Hall of Fame center’s production; no one would be able to. Have a look at Abdul-Jabbar’s six best statistical postseason runs (championship seasons in bold):

Season	Age	PPG	RPG	APG	BPG	FG%
1976-77	29	34.6	17.7	4.1	3.5	.607
1960-70	22	35.2	16.8	4.1	N/A*	.567
1973-74	26	32.2	15.8	4.9	2.4	.557
1979-80	32	31.9	12.1	3.1	3.9	.572
1978-79	31	28.5	12.6	4.8	4.1	.579
1970-71	23	26.6	17.0	2.5	N/A*	.567

*The NBA only started tracking blocks during the 1973-74 season.

The scoring and rebounding may stand out, but the most impressive aspect has to be his age. Kareem was impossible to defend from day one in the NBA, and that trend continued well into his late 30s (he averaged 25.9 points per game on 55.7 percent field goal shooting during the 1986 playoffs, at the tender age of 38). His effectiveness as well as his consistency allowed him to score an unprecedented 38,387 career points; the most in league history.

In addition, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar’s stellar play throughout his career helped him win six MVP awards; more than anyone in NBA history. And yet, when talks of the most dominant players ever arise, the player once nicknamed Cap is never mentioned.

He is arguably the greatest offensive player the world has ever seen and yet his game had so much more to offer.

Take one of his teammates for instance: Magic Johnson is without a doubt the standard by which all point guards will be measured because he understood when and how to get his teammates involved (running plays for them, feeding the hot hand and getting them easy scoring opportunities) and when to takeover. It is said, that no one made his teammates look better than Magic and it would be hard to disagree.

But in the same breath, rarely do we hear how Kareem helped Magic on the court. Indeed, Johnson often got clean looks right at the rim when he drove the ball simply because defenses were so keyed in on the Lakers’ star center. In addition, Abdul-Jabbar was a willing passer who would feed cutters and open shooters out of double teams. He rarely took ill-advised shots, instead preferring to either get a good look at the basket or pass it off to someone in better position. In addition, when Kareem screened for players or when they set screens for him underneath the basket, the outcome was often that the player involved in the screen action usually ended up open (even if it was for a fraction of a second) because his defender would help out on the Lakers’ center; and that’s when Magic would fire his bullet passes through traffic for lay ins.

Also, Kareem’s mere presence on both the Milwaukee Bucks and the Los Angeles Lakers helped his teammates become better defenders. Indeed, it is often easier for perimeter players to get up in the face of their opponents and challenge them to drive past them when there is a big man anchoring the paint and knocking shots back. Thus, Michael Cooper may have been an excellent defender in his own right, but having Abdul-Jabbar covering his back certainly helped him in his dealings with the likes of Larry Bird.

Put it all together, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is one of, if not the greatest individual player in NBA history. But if such is the case, an argument could be made that he is also the greatest Laker of them all. Have a look at his production in a Lakers jersey (ranks in franchise history in parentheses):

• 24,176 points (3^rd)
• 1,093 games played (2^nd)
• 37,492 minutes played (2^nd)
• 9,935 made field goals (1^st)
• 17,520 field goal attempts (4^th)
• 56.7 percent field goal percentage (4^th)
• 4,305 made free throws (5^th)
• 5,842 free throws attempted (5^th)
• 2,494 offensive rebounds (1^st)
• 7,785 defensive rebounds (1^st)
• 10,279 total rebounds (2^nd)
• 3,652 assists (6^th)
• 983 steals (6^th)
• 2,694 blocks (1^st)
• 22.1 points per game (6^th)
• 2.5 blocks per game (3^rd)

In addition, the former Bruin captured three MVP awards, one Finals MVP, was selected to participate in 13 All-Star Games and was voted to the All-NBA 1^st team six times as a Laker (yes, those are only Lakers accolades). His production as well as his play with the purple and gold make him a prime candidate for consideration as the best Laker of all time.

Granted, by the time Kobe Bryant’s career ends; one would have to think that he will be beyond the shadow of a doubt the franchise’s greatest player. Mind you as of today, there is still a little bit of wiggle room for debate.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar’s career in the NBA was impressive in its own right and should by itself place him on pedestal. But if we factor in his collegiate career, it would be awfully tough to come up with a player who has enjoyed more individual and team success than the former UCLA center

During his time in UCLA, the Bruins won three straight national championships and Kareem was selected in each of those seasons as the Final Four Most Outstanding Player.

In essence, other than Bill Russell, there may not be another player with a more decorated or storied career than the individual formerly known as Lew Alcindor.

Six NBA championship rings coupled with six MVP awards is usually enough to have one’s name center around just about every debate that revolves around talks about the absolute best; but Abdul-Jabbar is far too often forgotten when these talks arise…

No wonder he complained about not having a statue.

 

 

 

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

The Lakers can field a Hall of Fame section by themselves ,with all the great thats worn that Uniform…

Kareem might be the Greatest Laker ever…But there are 2 Reasons why some say that Claim isnt as solid as some might think….1.Some say his best years were in Milwaukee..And 2 he didnt play for them his entire career…..

But you can’t deny ,what he acomplished ,during his Laker tenure….And he was 1 of those stars that brought in the casual fans..Guy was and still is a Global Icon…

[jjonzParticipant]

Great point the Lakers traded for 3 of their Best C’s. Drafted 4 of Their Top Wings/Guards (Kobe,Magic, EBaylor JWest.) Anyway Kareem put up amazing #’s for the Lakers/ & Increased his production during the Post Season a True Mark of SuperStar.

[Charlie SheenParticipant]

 I never liked Kareem I respect the shit out of him but I just dont feel he’s a tp Lakers(Kobe and Magic are 1a and 1b, after that Shaq, Kareem, Worthy, West, Wilt. Fisher and Baylor come to mind)

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

I actually did a forum poll and Kareem was indeed voted the best Center in NBA history by those who participated. I rank him as the 4th best of All-Time, but to be fair I still rank him as the 6th best player of All-Time. Have to admit though, it is very hard for me to rank him behind Shaq, Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain. I find Bill Russell to be the consummate winner in professional sports and while many will say he would not have been as dominant had he played today, it still is hard for me to find his winning 11 titles in 13 seasons any less remarkable.

With Shaq, I feel he was the most unguardable Center in NBA history. He may not have had the post-moves or grace of Kareem or Hakeem Olajuwon, but that did not stop him from leading the league in FG% 10 times. Considering that 9 of those times, he was averaging over 20 ppg, that is pretty amazing. He did not have the longevity of Kareem, and he only had 8 overall MVP awards in his regular and post-season/+All-Star Games NCAA/NBA career, but I believe that Shaq was the most unstoppable player from the Center position in NBA history, even if Wilt Chamberlain has the more astrnomical stats. I think Wilt would have been dominant in any era as well, but to me, Shaq was even more efficient as an offensive force and his combination of size, strength and speed was unmatched. His NBA career may not be as decorated as players such as Russell, Wilt and Kareem, but I see him as the best Center in NBA history.

Wilt did "only" win 2 championships and was indeed surpassed by Kareem in all-time scoring, but I think even Kareem admitted that Wilt was the toughest player he ever faced (near the end of his career). Wilt never won a NCAA championship and was on the losing side more often than the winning side, but I think he was the best rebounding Center of All-Time (the average says so, but I feel he would have been a dominant rebounder in any era on both ends of the court). Plus, his two championships came on two teams that are considered among the best of All-Time, the 1966-67 Philadelphia 76ers (68-13) and the 1971-72 Lakers (69-13, with an unbelievable 33 game winning streak). I to feel that Wilt would get the better of a match-up with Kareem, and that his accomplishments are enough to stack up on the career front.

It is very hard for me to list Kareem as my #4 Center of All-Time, and I am actually cool with any rankings that feature he, Shaq, Wilt and Bill Russell in any order as the best Centers in NBA history. I also agree that Kareem is the best Center in Lakers history, as Shaq and Wilt had a solid amount of time in their careers outside of a Lakers uni (each playing less than 8 seasons with the team, next to Kareem’s 13). But, I still find Kobe Bryant to be the greatest Laker of All-Time (Not trying to get the Kanye West gif here, McAlcindor).

Kobe won the exact same amount of rings as a Laker and is now their All-Time leading scorer. I feel that Kobe Bryant was the best player in the league for a much longer time than Kareem (at least as a Laker), even if he has only 1 MVP to show for it. Kareem won 3 MVP awards as a Laker, but only one was during a championship season (his first as a Laker in Magic Johnson’s rookie year). He was a definite key member of the Lakers 5 rings in the 80’s, they could not have done it without him (though the same could be said for Kobe), but I feel those teams were incredibly stacked and that Magic was the catalyst. I would probably even say that Magic was a better Laker than Kareem, even if I think Kareem is the better All-Time player.

I know many will point to Kareem maybe being a better rebounder and defender than Shaq, but I think at the very least, the first one might not necessarily be true. Kareem’s rebounding took a major dip after the NBA/ABA merger and I will say, other than his rookie season in which Wilt played only 12 games (though still averaged more rpg), he outrebounded Kareem every year. Shaq may have never won a rebounding title (compared to Kareem’s one), but he has a better career rebounding percentage (17.79 to Kareem’s 15.66. For perspective, that places Shaq at 20 All-Time and Kareem at 59. The only year in which this statistic was not counted was Kareem’s rookie season, which would raise his %, but not by close to enough to be in the same ball park with Shaq).

Kareem’s career was incredible, he certainly won more awards than Shaq and he had the skyhook. But, I think Shaq was the more efficient of the two with his career, without the level of help Kareem had for a majority of his career (especially later). Shaq was also the more dominant Laker, averaging 27 and 11.8, with an identical 2.5 bpg during his much more brief Lakers career. I still think Kareem was the better Laker due to his longevity on the team, but I think their is a lot of grey area in where exactly Kareem ranks as an All-Time NBA player. He could be as high as 2 and as low as 7-8.

A lot of people do not agree with me saying that Kobe Bryant is who I see as being the 2nd best player in NBA history, but I just find his game so incredibly complete on both ends of the floor and truly see him as another player who could be dominant in any era. Just a different way of viewing things I suppose, but I did like the article and agree that Kareem deserves his props. I believe he is the greatest college basketball player of All-Time, if that is any consolation.

[jjonzParticipant]

as usual with Historical info. I guess the teammates matters a ton when you consider the Lakers had 3 other HOF players beside’s Kareem in the 80’s. Kobe had Shaq/Gasol & a group of decent Role players.

[llperez]

i would say kareem is number 3 all time in the nba ahead of magic and number 3 all time laker behind magic.

[Author]

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